IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-09-06
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03:14:17 <glx> 1.9.3 really seems to be a good idea
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09:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... they sent me a capacitor with the wrong voltage (slightly higher), how much could go wrong with that?
09:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> as in, 35V instead of 25V
09:08:14 <SpComb^> as long as it's not physically too much bigger
09:10:13 <SpComb^> if you're replacing caps, then the capacitance needs to be exact, but higher voltage/tempoerature characteristics are just a bonus, as long as it's physically compatible and the ESR characteristics are sufficient
09:13:51 <SpComb^> replacing a failed low-ESR cap in the switched/low-voltage side of a switch-mode power supply with a non-low-ESR cap is going to end badly
09:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i picked the correct ESR ones
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10:37:00 <andythenorth> container wagons....what colour containers? :P
10:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: random containers
10:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (well, you could argue for uniform colour)
10:46:49 <andythenorth> that might have to be on a parameter only
10:47:10 <andythenorth> the train livery variable is only 1 bit, and I'm using it for wagon CC :P
10:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well... that's a primary use for livery refits
10:47:31 <andythenorth> the docs seem to call it 'vehicle is flipped' but I know better
10:48:15 <andythenorth> why it wasn't made a byte, I will never know :P
10:48:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ... because you would sit there for half an hour ctrl+clicking to get the right one...
10:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> for every single wagon
10:49:22 <andythenorth> :o there's 'information' on right click in depot
10:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that's called "tooltip"
10:50:04 <andythenorth> it's a right-click tooltip though
10:50:09 <andythenorth> gives vehicle capacity and name
10:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only a right-click tooltip if you set tooltips to right-click
10:50:41 <andythenorth> always something new to find in OpenTTD
10:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> also, tautologies are tautological
10:51:04 <andythenorth> this isn't a conventional tooltip :)
10:51:11 <andythenorth> conventional tooltips trigger on hover for me
10:51:15 <andythenorth> this is a NEW FEATURE
10:51:22 <andythenorth> except it's probably 15 years old
10:51:36 <andythenorth> wow, it even sums trailing vehicles if I hold control
10:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure it is
10:51:56 <andythenorth> that's very convenient when building trains to a certain capacity
10:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> r13923 seems to be from 2008
10:55:18 <andythenorth> probably we could say it's a new feature for 2019 :P
11:02:16 <andythenorth> container colours somewhat matching cargo?
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11:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> now, do i muster up the confidence to actually heat up this soldering kit?
11:13:37 <andythenorth> you've discharged all the existing capacitors, right?
11:14:12 <Eddi|zuHause> if being disconnected for 5 years counts?
11:14:49 <andythenorth> residual shocks are always a bit exciting
11:14:58 <andythenorth> especially if holding a hot soldering iron
11:27:20 <andythenorth> seems I can inject recolour sprites into specific layers in the sprite stack
11:27:38 <andythenorth> containers are implemented as layers, so that's one option for controlling colour :P
12:12:04 <andythenorth> hmm random trigger not behaving as expected
12:15:08 <andythenorth> oh maybe I misunderstand the recolour sprites
12:18:36 <andythenorth> random trigger appears to not be triggering
12:25:19 <andythenorth> oh what is cb random_trigger?
12:28:20 <andythenorth> "Note that re-randomizing is done only during a special callback, random_trigger. This callback is called whenever a trigger event occurs. As a consequence, it's absolutely necessary for the random_switch block to be in executed during this callback, or trigger-based re-randomizing won't take place. "
12:32:33 <andythenorth> ok, so that works
12:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: basically, triggers are ignored if they are inside any callback
12:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> have to duplicate the chain inside the random_trigger callback
12:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (you can get away with not having a random_trigger callback, if all your triggers are in the default graphics chain)
12:47:26 <andythenorth> that was my first assumption, from reading nml docs
12:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (probably the composite sprites complicate this)
12:47:42 <andythenorth> I can only trigger re-randomisation by chaining directly to the random switch
12:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (maybe nml forces that)
12:47:56 <andythenorth> and yes, compositing seems to be the issue
12:48:49 <andythenorth> well it works now :)
12:50:11 <andythenorth> it's now triggering when vehicle recieves cargo during gradual loading
12:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you must reconstruct the decision chain that would lead to the random switch
12:53:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, use the right trigger
12:53:32 <andythenorth> it's TRIGGER_VEHICLE_NEW_LOAD currently
12:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure you're triggering the right bits?
12:56:57 <andythenorth> nope, running out of ideas :P
12:59:11 <andythenorth> ok, seems random_trigger does have to target the switch directly
12:59:20 <andythenorth> that would be interesting if more triggers were needed
13:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, you must reconstruct the whole decision chain, so you only retrigger when some completely unrelated sprites are showing
13:20:43 <andythenorth> my experience so far is the inverse
13:21:03 <andythenorth> targeting anything except the random switch appears not to work
13:21:28 <andythenorth> I haven't created any simple cases to prove that
13:22:17 <andythenorth> I'm fairly convinced that any chain using composite sprites won't work, because extra_callback_info1 won't contain the right bits
13:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you have to simulate the composition using normal switches
13:24:57 <Eddi|zuHause> but, say, you're having two cargos, and each cargo randomizes on a different trigger, then you have to reconstruct a switch for cargo type in the random_trigger callback
13:27:03 <andythenorth> yes that makes sense
13:29:57 <andythenorth> under which condition should containers appear on wagons?
13:31:23 <andythenorth> correction, load > 50%
13:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> if we're assuming you have 2 containers per wagon, i might do something like ==0 => no containers, >0..<=75 => 1 container, >75 => 2 containers
13:32:34 <andythenorth> there might be 1 container in some cases
13:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 large container taking the space of 2 normal containers?
13:33:57 <andythenorth> or 1 shorter wagon
13:34:06 <andythenorth> with only room for 1 container
13:34:22 <andythenorth> I could write complicated rules to match the containers exactly
13:34:29 <andythenorth> but I suspect it's not necessary
13:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you would have a different rule for short wagons
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15:37:09 <supermop_work> is it possible to easily make a path from the outline of a layer object in PS?
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16:11:27 <nielsm> will we hold a ticket #7777 party some time soon?
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16:16:52 <andythenorth> hmm the sRGB colorspace is really wrong on my screen
16:23:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
16:24:16 <andythenorth> comparing colour is notoriously hard
16:27:11 <nielsm> how does your actual rendering compare to my two screenshots?
16:27:58 <andythenorth> checking with visual diff
16:32:25 <andythenorth> even allowing for monitor, OS, OpenTTD, and Photoshop colorspace handling
16:32:32 <andythenorth> 1.9.1 matches yours near as dammit :)
16:37:05 <milek7> which baseset to compare? original_dos?
16:37:32 <andythenorth> there's another? :)
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16:38:48 <milek7> mine too has blueish look
16:41:30 <andythenorth> that's interesting
16:47:04 <LordAro> do we not want even a single RC?
16:47:38 <LordAro> #7709 shouldn't be included, imo
16:48:50 <milek7> andythenorth: "zJBO-1-9-1" doesn't match nielsm either, just zoom in:
16:49:41 <andythenorth> where are all the magenta pixels in this grass? :)
16:49:49 <nielsm> LordAro: why not #7709 ?
16:50:23 <LordAro> nielsm: too "featurey"
16:52:07 <peter1139> We've not done RCs for previous point-releases, have we?
16:52:17 <nielsm> nope, not what I remember
16:52:55 <nielsm> though probably should with this one, at least have some more mac users test it solves the two major issues
16:53:31 <andythenorth> 1.9.4 if it doesn't? :P
16:53:38 <andythenorth> quality standards > high
16:53:45 <nielsm> I'd really prefer to make a network compatible "patchlevel" release, but that would need some ugly wrangling of version numbers
16:54:48 <LordAro> peter1139: if only there was some sort of log to indicate what went into previous releases
16:56:37 <peter1139> LordAro, well you asked.
16:57:33 <peter1139> If we did, I apologise, and will just fuck off because I'm not putting that much effort into something that doesn't matter to me.
16:57:56 <LordAro> there have been 37 non-major release RC1s
16:58:10 <LordAro> ( `grep "[^0]-RC1" changelog.txt` )
16:58:38 <LordAro> every single release since 0.4.8, as far as i can tell
17:08:26 <andythenorth> maybe I need to calibrate my display :P
17:11:44 <peter1139> LordAro, but no 1.9.1-RC1 nor 1.9.2-RC1.
17:19:41 <LordAro> i'm perfectly happy to say that that practice was discarded with the move to GH :)
17:28:17 <andythenorth> checking cargo classes in nml
17:28:33 <andythenorth> is it match any, or match all?
17:29:03 <andythenorth> bitmask(CC_REFRIGERATED) isn't picking up food
17:29:11 <andythenorth> food cargo has CC_REFRIGERATED, CC_EXPRESS set
17:29:14 <supermop_work> i figured out the path thing
17:30:10 <andythenorth> was it possible?
17:30:29 <supermop_work> not as nice as i wanted
17:30:38 <supermop_work> so i don't think i can automate
17:30:53 <andythenorth> hmm classes are 'match all'
17:31:31 <glx> andythenorth: Available cargo classes are listed in the following table. Cargos may be in more than one class. Cargo classes are always used as a bitmask, use the built-in function bitmask(). For example, bitmask(CC_EXPRESS, CC_REFRIGERATED) is used for food.
17:31:36 <andythenorth> is there a better way, it's a bitmask, I should be able to pick out individual classes?
17:31:40 <supermop_work> select -> make work path -> stroke path with brush
17:31:53 <andythenorth> having to check all combinations is combinatorial explosion :|
17:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: needs more context
17:32:41 <supermop_work> but the select thing i basically have to magic wand it
17:34:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: checking var in a switch? use "cargo_classes & bitmask(CC_REFRIGERATED)"
17:34:30 <Eddi|zuHause> 0 -> not there, 1 -> there
17:34:46 <glx> should pick all cargo with CC_REFRIGERATED yes
17:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can't read "cargo_classes" and then use bitmask(CC_REFRIGERATED) as a switch-case
17:35:45 <andythenorth> so I need a switch for every class I want to check
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17:36:10 <glx> bitmask needs to be used as a mask ;)
17:36:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need a switch-chain if you want to avoid combinatorial explosion
17:37:49 * andythenorth remembering how to nml
17:37:52 <andythenorth> mostly I don't write nml
17:38:18 <glx> depending on your goal you can check all the classes you want to keep directly
17:39:02 <glx> but if each class needs a different handling they have to be separated
17:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also use bit-magic to rearrange the classes in order of priority, then you can use range checks
17:39:15 <andythenorth> what a lot of switches to write :P
17:39:27 <andythenorth> bit magic sounds cooler
17:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll get annoying to write
17:41:27 <Eddi|zuHause> basic structure is: "cc & b(CC_n) >> CC_n << k" to move the n-th cargo class to the k-th bit
17:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you combine those with |
17:42:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and then you can check ranges: 0 : none, 1: lowest, 2..3: mid, 4..7: higher, ...
17:43:35 <glx> I think you can switch on cargo_classes & bitmask(CC you want) and then use bitmask in switch-case
17:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> ranges are always 2^k..2^(k+1)-1
17:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> higher k means higher priority
17:45:20 <glx> (easy if CC are mutually exclusive)
17:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> all lower priority classes will be ignored
17:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> ... the switch-chain approach might be the better and clearer idea :p
17:49:40 <andythenorth> so it's 0 if the class is present, or 1?
17:49:50 * andythenorth could work out the actual bits, but asking is easier :P
17:50:00 <andythenorth> single or double &?
17:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it's 0 if it's not present, and something-else
17:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you >> CC_whatever
17:50:37 <andythenorth> ok, so checking 0 is easier
17:50:40 <glx> if CC is present the corresponding bit is 1
17:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause> checking 0 should be easier
17:51:31 * andythenorth wonders why it doesn't work
17:54:01 <andythenorth> ok works now, EBKC resolved
17:54:06 <andythenorth> everyone breathe out
17:55:22 <glx> error between keyboard and chair
17:55:34 <andythenorth> usually PEBKAC but I'm lazy
18:02:51 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
18:03:19 <Samu> there's the 4096 which is unknown
18:04:41 <Samu> this screenshot should have the town window
18:06:13 <glx> but andy know cargo classes ;)
18:08:49 <Samu> still not perfect, coming up with another screenshot
18:12:17 <Samu> GOOD has the effect of WATER
18:12:41 <Samu> PETR has the effect of GOODS
18:13:06 <andythenorth> you're using FIRS?
18:13:33 <andythenorth> you're relying on cargo town effects?
18:13:45 <andythenorth> FIRS cargo town effects make no sense
18:14:04 <Samu> you could make beer have a TE_WATER
18:14:42 <andythenorth> if anyone wants to patch FIRS town effects so they work, it's on github
18:14:42 <Samu> and water too, there can be multiple cargos with the same effect
18:14:52 <andythenorth> I don't understand them
18:15:13 <Samu> I didn't at first, then I investigated openttd code
18:17:30 <Samu> FISH, FRUT, GRAI could all fit into TE_FOOD
18:19:41 <Samu> cargo class means nothing to towns, they don't care which class it is, only the effect
18:19:44 <andythenorth> what is TOWNGROWTH_GOODS even for?
18:19:55 <andythenorth> is this the fallacy that goods grows towns?
18:20:18 <andythenorth> I don't even want to talk about cargo town effects :|
18:22:31 <Samu> We couldn’t find any code matching 'TOWN_GROWTH_GOODS' in OpenTTD/OpenTTD
18:22:51 <glx> TE_GOODS in openttd source
18:23:03 <andythenorth> wtf does it do? :o
18:23:11 <Samu> oh, TE is Town effect then
18:23:33 <andythenorth> TOWNGROWTH_GOODS Affect towns as goods/candy does
18:23:44 <andythenorth> what even is this?
18:23:44 <andythenorth> TOWNGROWTH_MAIL Affect towns as mail does
18:23:50 <andythenorth> how does mail affect towns?
18:24:00 <Samu> let me check toyland, to make sure
18:24:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it doesn't.
18:24:25 <andythenorth> is this just vestigal crap?
18:24:30 <andythenorth> due to the way the spec has evolved?
18:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> scripts can use this
18:24:53 <Samu> in newgrf they call it towngrowth?
18:24:56 <andythenorth> so "Affect towns as mail does" is always returned as 0?
18:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the only way scripts can get information from the newgrf
18:25:18 <glx> gamescript can do things differently
18:25:32 * andythenorth hates all this crap
18:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it's up to them what they do with this information
18:26:10 <glx> but passenger, goods, food and water are used in vanilla I think
18:27:51 <glx> Samu: FIRS is disabled in toyland I think
18:28:11 <Samu> even openttd doesn't use water for fizzy drinks
18:28:35 <glx> cargo labels clearly are from default cargos
18:29:08 <andythenorth> Samu: are you trying to find out what it does, or why?
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18:31:39 <Samu> in default openttd, if you deliver passengers to oil rigs, it still affects the town because passengers were delivered, i'm just not sure what kind of effect though
18:32:02 <Samu> even if you don't transport any pass to the town itself
18:32:59 <nielsm> a passenger delivery is a passenger delivery, regardless of where they go
18:33:16 * andythenorth wonders about the industry town growth thing :P
18:33:17 <nielsm> if you delivered passengers to a soylent green factory they'd also count for town growth
18:33:22 <glx> as long as it's in town territory
18:34:25 <Samu> town growth update counter thing?
18:34:41 <andythenorth> what could we do that's more lolz and less weird
18:38:41 <nielsm> commercial buildings that act as mini-industries
18:38:51 <nielsm> but are not real industries
18:39:14 <andythenorth> it's not even town growth that's interesting actually :)
18:39:19 <andythenorth> it's having a reason to deliver to towns
18:39:34 <andythenorth> I could prevent industries producing unless town population is > n
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19:19:16 * andythenorth wonders about insane number of container sprites
19:19:28 <andythenorth> all cargos can go in containers :P
19:20:01 <andythenorth> open top and flat containers should show cargo sprites eh :P
19:45:47 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:54:23 <Wolf01> andythenorth: full intermodal and cargo icon layer :P
19:55:17 <arikover> I applied for the French translation at translator@openttd.org, but did not get an answer. Is anybody checking the mail here? Or is there another address?
19:55:59 <glx> I think someone checks the mail, but then need to do a lot of manual work
19:58:47 <Samu> trying to make my AI build PASS and MAIL routes at the same time
19:59:12 <Samu> instead of being fixed to one cargo or the other
19:59:48 <Samu> getting some management problems with town pairs and vehicle renewing
20:16:23 <arikover> glx: I guess, but that's been 2 weeks now... Maybe my e-mail was not properly sent.
20:17:09 <arikover> glx: Do you happen to know who is checking this mailbox? Maybe I can write a PM on the forums.
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20:36:35 * andythenorth wonders if peter1139 has an alert on lunch yet
20:42:16 <supermop_work> had a fancy shwarma
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21:44:17 <Samu> i need another array, one for mail, one for pass
21:44:43 <Samu> was putting them in the same bag
21:44:52 <Samu> but then i check for array length
22:04:24 <Samu> function HasArrayCargoClassPairs(cargoClass) {
22:12:01 <Samu> how do I remove an entry from an array?
22:12:45 <Samu> m_nearCityPairArray.remove(i);
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23:07:02 <Samu> it builds mail more often than passengers
23:21:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7627: Fix #7626: Allow building of drive-through stops over one-way/blocked roads owned by towns (instead of crashing). https://git.io/fjjX5
23:21:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7627: Fix #7626: Allow building of drive-through stops over one-way/blocked roads owned by towns (instead of crashing). https://git.io/fjrrF
23:21:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #7626: Building drive through road stop on town-owned one-way road crashes game. https://git.io/fjVqg
23:24:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7627: Fix #7626: Allow building of drive-through stops over one-way/blocked roads owned by towns (instead of crashing). https://git.io/fjjXF
23:25:03 <andythenorth> shipping containers
23:25:17 <andythenorth> need to be odd pixel lengths
23:25:34 <andythenorth> they're drawn as a pattern of light-dark-light-dark-light
23:25:54 <andythenorth> but 32 doesn't divide nicely between odd pixel lengths :P
23:28:28 <andythenorth> also means 40 foot containers aren't 2 x 20 foot
23:28:39 <andythenorth> they're (2 * 20 foot) + 1 pixel :D
23:28:51 <andythenorth> lolz not even 1st world problems
23:28:57 <nielsm> sounds like you're in a pickles
23:30:54 <andythenorth> I was hoping to automate more and draw less :)
23:45:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7701: Fix #7188: check the validity of command callback for scripts https://git.io/fjj1O
23:47:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7628: Fix #7625: Road infrastructure cost is correctly updated when upgrading your own roads. https://git.io/fjj1s
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