IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-07-13
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00:19:32 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
00:19:42 <drac_boy> hi .. been rather a while
00:19:54 <drac_boy> but anyway just curious .. when did the forum backend get updated?
00:48:32 <drac_boy> anything interesting tonight lord of aro? :)
01:20:10 <drac_boy> mm well maybe grf topics another day then
01:42:12 <happpy> hi just a questions has any own see planetmaker online? because we got a problem on a server
01:45:15 <happpy> if any own see planetmaker we need help on own ov the openttdcoop server?
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03:26:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
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08:09:38 <peter1138> Hmm, should I go out on the early ride?
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09:09:52 <andythenorth> mumble mumble progression
09:37:44 <andythenorth> so it turns out that massive power increases per generation don't work
09:38:15 <andythenorth> because engine run costs increase, but train size doesn't, for an established network
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11:41:06 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7627: Fix #7626: Allow building of drive-through stops over one-way/blocked roads owned by towns (instead of crashing). https://git.io/fjXqf
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13:50:58 <andythenorth> doesn't include 'optimum livery choice' :P
13:51:11 <andythenorth> how are we doing liveries now? :P
14:00:52 <andythenorth> Horse 91% again :P
14:03:16 <andythenorth> somehow the idea for Horse has gone off the rails :)
14:03:22 <andythenorth> originally it was '10 engines'
14:03:34 <andythenorth> now it is 75 engines
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14:13:47 <reldred> andythenorth: I am okay with this
14:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "10 engines" was never a sustainable goal
14:16:54 <andythenorth> I checked Dan's original plan
14:17:13 <andythenorth> it instantly evolved to 16
14:17:23 <andythenorth> 8 steam, 8 diesel / electric
14:17:54 <andythenorth> and then there was narrow gauge to add
14:18:08 <andythenorth> and then a 6th generation was needed for long games :P
14:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should throw CETS at the "smart" GUI, see what happens?
14:18:57 <reldred> Planning is essential but plans are useless?
14:20:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there are people in this world for whom "plan" is a detailed step-by-step description that must not be deviated from at all costs
14:20:39 <reldred> and those people are weak and shall be purged
14:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> for some strange reason those people have a tendency to remain in highranking positions
14:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and resist purging
14:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i quit my last job partially because i was up against one such person
14:24:03 <andythenorth> my wife has a plan that I should be doing something else right now
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14:24:24 <reldred> Shoulda planned ahead and not got a wife :P
14:24:54 <reldred> hahahahah I'm so lonely
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15:41:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
15:43:27 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
15:47:05 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
15:48:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
15:52:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjXOG
16:42:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjX3T
16:43:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjX3k
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17:28:05 <Beerbelott> Hello. Does OpenTTD running as dedicated accept server commands through stdin?
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17:59:45 <michi_cc> LordAro: Do you know how the website news posts are ordered? Is it by file name or something else (i.e. does the dev post have to be renamed to be first)?
18:02:04 <nielsm> probably descending order by filename
18:02:45 <nielsm> unless the templating engine does something smarter and first splits the date off then orders them within each day
18:27:47 <LordAro> michi_cc: filename is used to generste the oost date, afaik
18:28:02 <LordAro> other than that, i think it's just alphabetical
18:28:32 <LordAro> ah, nielsm got there first :)
18:30:54 <michi_cc> So basically this commit ^^?
18:31:44 <milek7> 38s for openttd rebuild
18:32:26 <nielsm> yeah that looks like it would put the post first :)
18:33:00 <michi_cc> So comments and edits today, and tomorrow somebody can hit approve.
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18:33:06 <nielsm> "Some polish." good thing it wasn't "Some Polish.", that would limit the audience somewhat
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19:12:09 <Beerbelott> nielsm: I'm not sure stdin serves as an interface for console commands
19:13:44 <Beerbelott> I started a dedicated process as frontend (-D). I can type commands in this interactive prompt (referenced later as the "terminal").
19:13:44 <Beerbelott> However, if I write to /proc/<PID>/fd/0, the content is duplicated on the terminal, but the corresponding action is not triggered
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19:44:29 <glx> stdin should work, autopilot used it
19:44:48 <glx> but it's easier to just use admin port
19:45:52 <glx> well autopilot was a wrapper around the interactive prompt
19:46:51 <Samu> scoring round 14, it was different than I expected
19:57:37 * andythenorth backing up 1TB laptop to 500GB USB drive
19:57:45 <andythenorth> guess how well that's going? :P
20:00:28 <andythenorth> 500MB of OpenTTD content downloads :P
20:00:57 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
20:01:23 <Eddi|zuHause> dd if=/dev/whatever | xz > file?
20:03:59 <andythenorth> something like that :P
20:10:16 <andythenorth> turns out I can do silly livery styles, train 41
20:10:27 <andythenorth> like a vinyl wrap
20:25:47 <Samu> Grinchios and Rythorn Airline AI, two AIs that were based on WrightAI, and yet they're still behind WrightAI in total score, after 15 rounds.
20:26:40 <Samu> i dunno if it's my testing methods
20:27:08 <Samu> but why would someone make an AI that is going to be worse than the original
20:27:59 <planetmaker> optimized for different settings.
20:32:23 <Samu> there are atm 20 AIs below WrightAI's score
20:32:52 <Samu> 47 without counting WrightAI itself
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20:46:29 <_moep_> hey! how can I download the different grafics? I downloaded in openttd and enabled it, but it wasnt loaded
20:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to start a new game, won't be added to existing savegames
20:47:19 <_moep_> oh ok, good to know :D
20:48:10 <Samu> some of these times I logged were impressive, turns out most of them were times after a bankrupt
20:48:27 <Samu> it completely changes the scoring
20:48:39 <Samu> seems that I did the right approach with my scoring rules
20:49:20 <Samu> bankrupted scores go below bankruptless scores
21:06:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
21:11:35 <Beerbelott> glx: I am trying to differentiate the interactive prompt from stdin
21:12:08 <Beerbelott> The interactive prompt does work, while stdin seems to receive messages but does not "interpret" them, cf. details I provided sooner
21:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: maybe the admin port is something for your purposes?
21:17:14 <Beerbelott> Yup, through RCON protocol
21:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody seriously used stdin for like 5 years now
21:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> who knows what got broken there :p
21:17:43 <Beerbelott> I was expecting being able to find the same behaviour on stdin that existed on the interactive prompt. It seems it's not the case
21:18:18 <Beerbelott> Ah that means it might be a regression then, modulo confirmation it's a defect
21:18:43 <Beerbelott> I'd say I'd dig into that but I'll push one idea at a time...
21:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i fail to imagine how, but it still might be
21:20:32 <nielsm> dedicated_v.cpp doesn't do anything funny with stdin
21:20:50 <nielsm> it does select() on it to check if any input is waiting but that's it
21:26:16 <glx> indeed seems unrelated to our code :)
21:38:52 <Beerbelott> I was a lil bit afraid of involving FIFO piping in there. It seems it might be the only way
21:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, again, the admin port is probably better suited :p
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21:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it was in this mini-PC, and stopped working at some point. it's been sitting on my desk ever since
21:52:13 <LordAro> otherwise, it's probably dead
21:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not the cable, i tried multiple ways of connecting
21:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> external usb connector, internal one on my main pc, etc.
21:56:43 <glx> cost nothing to try the power cycle trick
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22:04:48 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
22:07:45 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjXZy
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22:15:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjXZQ
22:28:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
22:29:45 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
22:30:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
22:37:17 <andythenorth> do they look different?
22:37:27 <andythenorth> sprite / shape of train /s
22:39:35 <glx> I can see it's basically the same engine
22:40:00 <glx> but the colors make them totally different
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22:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't like sprite
22:58:26 <andythenorth> I hit industry directory menu item by accident
22:59:03 <andythenorth> can I patch that menu item out?
23:02:31 <andythenorth> eh :) mac frame rate has tanked again
23:02:48 <andythenorth> it pegs one CPU core to 100%, and fps drops to 16-20 fps
23:03:00 <andythenorth> if a news message appears and I click on it
23:03:30 <andythenorth> CPU drops back to the usual 50%-80%
23:03:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just remove that loop from the function that crashes
23:03:36 <andythenorth> and FPS goes back to 32 fps
23:04:09 <andythenorth> the clicking news message thing may be coincidental to resolving the fps problem, but anecdotally one fixes the other
23:06:14 <andythenorth> and I hit industry directory button again :(
23:06:29 <andythenorth> this is slow gameplay :P
23:07:44 <andythenorth> what's this worth as a fun activity? :)
23:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the true adventure was the experience we got on the way, and the friends we made.
23:09:03 <Beerbelott> Are there specs written anywhere about the RCON format used by that game? I cannot get past the initial size + type (both of which I seem to have figured as being uint16 & uint8). THe code seems to be reading 2 null-terminated strings in the payload (for authenticated RCON client commands), but sending just that fails with "Client <ID> made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'received invalid or unexpected packet'"
23:09:29 <Beerbelott> The size seems to be just right as incremeting it makes the server wait for the next packet
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23:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: there are some existing admin port libraries for python and java
23:13:10 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
23:27:22 <glx> easier to use an existing lib :)
23:38:08 <andythenorth> what's the equivalent to 'electro-diesel' for a train that uses hydrogen fuel cell or wired supply?
23:38:23 <andythenorth> 'bi-mode' isn't specific enough :P
23:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "Hybrid (Hydrogen)", "Hybrid (Diesel)", "Hybrid (Battery)"?
23:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand why there aren't any battery powered trains that can charge while under wire
23:42:27 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: There are battery-powered trams that do
23:42:38 <FLHerne> (in Seville, and Birmingham, and I think some other places)
23:43:35 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: yeah, but we used battery powered trains for over 100 years now
23:43:35 <FLHerne> (which did run in passenger service)
23:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but it never really took off
23:44:53 <FLHerne> If you have a branch short enough to run a BEMU, but electrified at one end, it's probably cheaper to electrify the thing than equip a small non-standard fleet with batteries
23:45:02 <glx> battery is mostly used to keep the lights in case of catenary fail here I think
23:45:24 <glx> but A/C doesn't work in this case
23:45:37 <FLHerne> Electrification is expensive if you need extra feeder stations, or complex multi-track gantries and junctions with lots of odd bits of wire
23:46:00 <FLHerne> Plain single/twin line is pretty cheap, unless you're NR
23:47:12 <FLHerne> It's only become plausible recently because (a) batteries are cheaper, (b) high-energy-density batteries mean much longer range
23:47:45 <glx> for a tram it's usually possible to run on batteries, but a train is heavier
23:49:07 <FLHerne> Oh, no, those were mass-produced
23:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> these weren't exactly experimental
23:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the ETA 150 were in service for 40 years
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