IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-04-05
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00:02:45 <LordAro> (largely a hack, but)
00:04:04 <Xaroth> planetmaker: it's quite fun, actually.. but it lacks long-term danger that Factorio has.
00:09:04 <Samu> but but... why 16 bits for company ctrl action or 8 bits for company remove reason, they're only 2 bits each
00:10:06 <glx> the space is not limited, it's easier to work with 8bit blocks
00:13:28 <Samu> does that increase performance at all?
00:14:34 <LordAro> Samu: stop trying to microoptimise
00:14:57 <LordAro> computers are better at dealing with whole bytes (or usually, 4 bytes) than individual bits
00:15:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7471: Fix #7469: Desync when using build and refit feature. https://git.io/fjLZK
00:15:41 <glx> and if some bits are needed later it will be possible to reshuffle p1 anyway
00:17:50 <_dp_> glx, my idea of fix was to remove CMD_CLIENT_ID altogether
00:17:57 <_dp_> glx coz why's it even there
00:19:20 <_dp_> commands are supposed to send correct data already and even if they don't p2 == 0 is a very shitty way to check that
00:19:45 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7457: Update: documentation updates from 1.9 branch https://git.io/fjkjD
00:20:02 <glx> single player vs multi player I think
00:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> don't ever trust data sent from the outside
00:21:36 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, we trust everything but 0s anyway here :p
00:21:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure that's a good argument for anything :p
00:22:28 <LordAro> master branch doesn't have the luxury of being a closed system :p
00:24:24 <Samu> because 90 degrees was removed for ships recently, wasn't it?
00:25:01 <LordAro> ah, well in which case, yes
00:25:55 <Samu> NPF may depend on it, i forgot, need to dig
00:26:18 <LordAro> yes, removed in #7232
00:26:28 <LordAro> so i'd be surprised if NPF depended on it
00:27:11 <Samu> or was it ship cache, i remember some assert was caused because there was no tracks available for NPF
00:27:36 <Samu> and a ship is lost on the last tile when ship was reaching docks
00:27:47 <LordAro> didn't that get fixed?
00:27:51 <Samu> thx to that line in code
00:28:00 <LordAro> either way, try it and see
00:29:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7471: Fix #7469: Desync when using build and refit feature. https://git.io/fjLZO
00:29:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7469: Build and refit feature is not MP-safe, causes immediate desyncs https://git.io/fjLGA
00:32:31 <Samu> i know i had a savegame about it, searching through the pile
00:35:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7467: Codechange: Replace duplicated code with TileArea::Expand() https://git.io/fjLmR
00:36:57 <_dp_> how does anything but CLIENT_ID_SERVER get into p2?
00:37:08 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7467: Codechange: Replace duplicated code with TileArea::Expand() https://git.io/fjLZh
00:38:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7467: Codechange: Replace duplicated code with TileArea::Expand() https://git.io/fjLne
00:45:27 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6907: Cargo capacity should be recalculated on TRIGGER_VEHICLE_NEW_LOAD https://git.io/fjLnL
00:46:27 <Samu> the ship cache, on the last tile, does some weird things
01:00:39 <Samu> for yapf, it's fine, not perfect, but no lost ship popups as the last time I tried
01:01:01 <Samu> it could do a 45 degree turn to reach the dock, but prefers to do a 90 degree
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01:06:53 <Samu> ok, no asserts, the NPF crash was due to 90 degrees
01:07:15 <Samu> it's no longer in NPF code, it can find a track
01:07:29 <Samu> that means, line can be removed
01:08:52 <Samu> yapf on dealing with destination_tile could be smarter though
01:20:08 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7472: Cleanup 3f32711: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings for ships. https://git.io/fjLn2
01:20:59 <Samu> first time using Cleanup if I'm not mistaken
01:21:42 <Samu> waiting for (Linux commit-checker) approval :o
01:26:52 <Samu> Due by October 01, 2019 orly?
01:49:03 <_dp_> Apparently CMD_CLIENT_ID is never set to anything but server id
01:49:26 <_dp_> surprisingly order backups that rely on it still work
01:49:32 <_dp_> or at least I couldn't break them
01:50:37 <_dp_> but that's mostly because their user check is redundant since if tile is the same it's gonna be same company anyway (removing depot resets backups)
01:51:03 <_dp_> or, well, at least they aren't completely broken
01:51:43 <_dp_> as I guess backups were supposed to be separate for each user but they're shared within company atm
01:56:39 <_dp_> similarly OrderBackup::ResetUser doesn't rly do anything
01:58:07 <_dp_> as I don't think it's possible to reset server user and he has all backups
02:11:44 <_dp_> wait, or does it get client id somehow... but not always... I'm totally confused
02:16:48 <Samu> bot marked it as stale, but it's not me who's working on it
02:18:45 <Samu> or perhaps you can reply on the PR, I dunno. It's just that I'm not doing anything, I was waiting on you
02:29:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
02:33:36 <glx> I think it's still incomplete, seems I never store the latest command
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04:00:52 <Samu> about the mass popup window
04:01:38 <Samu> what can you make of it?
04:02:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7190: Fix #7188: AI instance crash when reloading AI in a server. https://git.io/fjLCD
04:06:06 <Samu> is it true that 1.9.0 isn't built with asserts?
04:06:38 <Samu> that would mean I'd never experience these assert errors?
04:16:58 <Samu> this is the assert that I'm spammed about
04:17:18 <Samu> HandleMouseEvents()... intriguing
05:00:54 <Samu> if what the log says it's true
05:01:11 <Samu> (local: 255) (current: 16)
05:01:39 <Samu> static inline bool IsLocalCompany()
05:01:39 <Samu> return _local_company == _current_company;
05:05:15 <Samu> line 1367 in openttd.cpp Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, OWNER_NONE, FILE_LINE);
05:07:32 <Samu> kdtree crashed before the spam
05:11:44 <Samu_> OnTick_Station calls StationHandleBigTick which is where the station is deleted which makes kdtree crash
05:12:24 <Samu_> and that is happening during current company being owner none
05:14:22 <Samu_> HandleMouseEvents is called from the video driver which is in a separate thread, isn't it?
05:15:09 <Samu_> which i could understand this better
05:16:39 <Samu_> the popup spam was caused by the video driver thread when kdtree crashed at the station ... does anything I say make sense?
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07:44:08 <andythenorth> why do I get a merge commit on my fork of OpenTTD Website?
07:44:13 <andythenorth> literally I changed nothing
07:46:47 <andythenorth> now I have to remove the frigging merge commit somehow
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07:57:06 <andythenorth> I tried to make GH Pages work on my fork a few weeks ago, which requires commits to master :P
08:08:51 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth opened pull request #76: Fix: 'development environments' link was broken #75 https://git.io/fjLlQ
09:21:18 <Xaroth> andythenorth: you broke that one yourself!
09:21:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] Xaroth approved pull request #76: Fix: 'development environments' link was broken #75 https://git.io/fjL82
09:28:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #76: Fix: 'development environments' link was broken #75 https://git.io/fjL8w
09:28:58 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #76: Fix: 'development environments' link was broken #75 https://git.io/fjLlQ
10:04:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7465: Fix #7439: don't overwrite CompanyRemoveReason with ClientID https://git.io/fjL8p
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10:51:13 <peter1138> Do we pretend to be pixel-aware on OS X as well as Windows?
11:03:48 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7472: Cleanup 3f32711: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings for ships. https://git.io/fjL4A
11:03:58 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7472: Cleanup 3f32711: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings for ships. https://git.io/fjLn2
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11:28:39 <peter1138> Silly people on the forums.
11:29:00 <andythenorth> people gonna silly
11:29:15 <peter1138> Apparently the oil-rig industry/station option is pointless? :P
11:29:32 <andythenorth> it's Yet Another Setting
11:29:38 <andythenorth> which bothers me, but it's not pointless
11:30:15 <peter1138> Should've defaulted it to the new behaviour.
11:31:07 <peter1138> Well, having it as not-optional would break old savegames apparently.
11:31:26 <peter1138> But then, so does the catchment area change.
11:32:10 <andythenorth> I don't understand the neutral stations thing, but someone added it, so it must have a reason
11:32:34 <andythenorth> I'm just happy we have contributors :P
11:32:42 <andythenorth> and a release that isn't just 'translations'
11:33:07 <peter1138> Building railway stations out to oil-rigs is ridiculous game play, thats the reason for it :p
11:34:29 <andythenorth> hmm devzone crashed again
11:35:32 <peter1138> "These changes/fixes can obviously be controversial, so please discuss and ask about them."
11:35:35 <peter1138> Well, I guess they are :p
11:36:02 <andythenorth> NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AT ALL
11:37:01 <andythenorth> so when we do Pipemania
11:37:09 <andythenorth> it will have to include industry station support
11:37:16 <andythenorth> that means Pipemania needs shared infra
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12:08:10 <Xaroth> have you considered making a proper hardmode grf, andythenorth?
12:08:25 <andythenorth> what does it do? o_O
12:08:45 <pnda> First time using IRC on my phone. Better than I expected
12:08:54 <Xaroth> make it very difficult to not go bankrupt
12:09:43 <Xaroth> higher running costs, lower income, balance the different goods a bit
12:10:39 <Xaroth> vanilla ottd, takes 1 train between a coal mine and a power plant at some distance, to completely repay your debt in under 2 years
12:10:57 <andythenorth> probably a GS thing :)
12:11:18 <Xaroth> I'd more say a combination of sorts
12:11:27 <Xaroth> things like running cost and income are grf defined, right? not gs-defined
12:11:44 <andythenorth> yeah, I'm just being a tool about GS :)
12:13:43 <_dp_> Xaroth, tight economies aren't very fun in openttd
12:13:59 <_dp_> Xaroth, it's ok while you're figuring strategy but once you done it's just boring
12:14:15 <Xaroth> that pretty much sums up most normal ottd games :P
12:14:18 <_dp_> Xaroth, you're just waiting for money not playing
12:14:35 <andythenorth> I accidentally made Iron Horse too expensive recently
12:14:38 <andythenorth> it was really boring
12:16:08 <_dp_> Xaroth, that's why I like proper goal games, you're building like crazy for a whole duration
12:16:15 <_dp_> Xaroth, and strategies are much more complex
12:16:41 <andythenorth> and yeah I mostly also play GS goal games, like NCG or SV
12:16:49 <andythenorth> this is why I hate GS
12:17:03 <_dp_> andythenorth, we have very different definition of goal games but whatever xD
12:18:49 <_dp_> I remember how much effort it took to get past 100k
12:19:32 <andythenorth> I don't think it's that different to playing SV with stupid goals set :)
12:21:07 <_dp_> those ppl don't play anymore so citymania record is a bit low
12:21:59 <Xaroth> planetmaker: I'm breaking things to libottdadmin2, just fyi :P
12:22:17 <Xaroth> I'm making a 0.0.2 release which _should_ be py2/py3 compat
12:22:38 <Xaroth> but after that it'll be heading straight to py3-only zones
12:25:50 <Xaroth> (plus, all packets will allow both encoding and decoding, so you could build your own proxy or whatever... if you really want to go nuts)
12:30:38 <Xaroth> py3 solves some stuff, and allows some stuff
12:30:50 <Xaroth> which means less code that can break :P
12:30:53 <planetmaker> from Enum import enum :)
12:31:00 <Xaroth> only the other way around :P
12:31:50 <Xaroth> but py2 support stops next year anyways :P
12:31:56 <Xaroth> so might as well start early with the deprecation of py2 :P
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12:52:42 <Xaroth> half-way through converting the classes, and the new code, that does both encoding and decoding of packets, is shorter than the old one, that only went one way.
12:56:21 <planetmaker> when I started with python I never really bothered much with py2...
12:56:43 <planetmaker> not that the differences are significant... but why devote time to something with the label "deprecated" for years
13:01:40 <Xaroth> for years it was the version with the most documentation and best support of packages
13:01:45 <Xaroth> but over the past 5 years that did a full 180, luckily
13:01:49 <Xaroth> especially the last year or two
13:02:42 <Xaroth> big projects like Django going all in on python3 meant that a lot of library devs suddenly had to think hard about not supporting py3
13:02:53 <Xaroth> to which most just went along with the trend
13:07:49 * andythenorth just upgraded to python2.7
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13:13:26 <planetmaker> Xaroth, yes, sure... but I only really started with python in the last 5 years
13:13:59 <planetmaker> and try to convince my collegues to use it as well instead of the over-priced and feature-starved proprietary language they use :P
13:15:13 <planetmaker> at least when they have a choice... and to not buy-in students to programmes they'd have to use illegally anyway
13:53:10 <Xaroth> I love it when I can offload my validation to standard libs :P
13:53:53 <planetmaker> isn't programming just the art to delegate or automate stuff so that one can extend the lazy time? :P
13:54:15 <Xaroth> UpdateType(0x50) >>> ValueError: 80 is not a valid UpdateType
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13:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> isn't programming just the art to delegate or automate stuff so that one can extend the lazy time? :P <-- yeah, but my last boss didn't understand that...
13:58:02 <snoppyberlin> jemand aus deutschland anwesend?
13:58:29 <snoppyberlin> habe da ein kleines problem
13:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> congrats, you managed to break 2 channel rules in 2 lines
14:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ... at least he stayed long enough to read the replies? :p
14:26:53 <planetmaker> that was... quick... no patience sadly
15:06:43 <Samu> "What harm could a train station near an oil rig possibly do?"
15:07:04 <peter1138> I'm ignoring them now :-)
15:11:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7465: Fix #7439: don't overwrite CompanyRemoveReason with ClientID https://git.io/fjLqj
15:12:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #7439: Server reports CRR_AUTOCLEAN instead of CRR_MANUAL to admin port https://git.io/fjTdK
15:13:22 <peter1138> I'd rather it was always the new way with no option :-)
15:13:28 <peter1138> But I guess that's too... conflicting?
15:14:09 <Samu> yesterday night I had a kdtree assert, followed by mass popup assert, this time a crash log was created
15:15:42 <Samu> decided not to create a PR about it :(
15:15:54 <Samu> it wasn't master nor 1.9.0
15:17:35 <planetmaker> peter1138, the oil rig behaviour? Oh well...
15:17:58 <planetmaker> probably would be good
15:18:31 <peter1138> planetmaker, nah, it would 'break' existing games.
15:18:43 <peter1138> The new behaviour could easily be made default though.
15:18:48 <planetmaker> I wonder whether we can have like a quick switch between something like 'new defaults' and 'old defaults' where the latter is like as close as possible to ttd
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15:19:29 <planetmaker> dunno... does it affect newgrfs? It might
15:20:20 <_dp_> peter1138, by that logic you should also make a switch for non-rect :p
15:20:23 <peter1138> But if you have a train station bumping up to an oilrig and expect it to collect oil, it won't with the new behaviour.
15:20:36 <peter1138> _dp_, I was going to originally but everyone said it's not needed.
15:22:11 <peter1138> What's easily abusable?
15:22:39 <peter1138> BTPro's 'fix' for it?
15:22:48 <_dp_> peter1138, well, imo there are plenty of settings that even more unnecessary...
15:23:09 <_dp_> peter1138, at least non-rect somewhat affects citymania unlike tons of other stuff :)
15:23:52 <_dp_> peter1138, new pactch, btpro's not a fix so it's up to a moderator anyway
15:24:23 <peter1138> Sorry it's not clear what you are trying to say.
15:24:38 <_dp_> peter1138, yeah... where do I even start...
15:24:40 <planetmaker> indeed... if it was an argument for or against anything - I cannot tell
15:25:06 <peter1138> _dp_, are you talking about the new "neutral industry/station" change?
15:25:20 <_dp_> planetmaker, it's neither rly, just saying)
15:26:44 <_dp_> peter1138, in last 3 messages, yes
15:27:19 <_dp_> but basically the issue with oil rigs is that you can terra the heel out of ocean and transport oil with trains
15:27:38 <_dp_> which considering how dense oil rigs can be is a bit unbalanced in certain situations
15:28:30 <_dp_> with new option limiting it to ships now you can't do it directly but you can still do most with trains and setup short local transfers with ships
15:29:23 <peter1138> Okay, so you don't even know what the new option does.
15:29:48 <peter1138> The new option means you have to use the industry's built in station. You can use ships or helicopters.
15:30:18 <peter1138> It is not a hack that makes you use ships with oil rigs.
15:31:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7213: Feature: BFS-based river generator https://git.io/fjLEN
15:32:25 <Samu> ppl discussing my idea, so cool!
15:33:24 <_dp_> peter1138, no, I noticed that much, but you can still avoid most of the trouble dealing with ships
15:33:57 <_dp_> peter1138, well, I guess would multiple docks per station to work really well...
15:33:57 <planetmaker> _dp_, how so? You mean by building a train station nearby and using ships only as feeder?
15:34:07 <planetmaker> that's as much hassle as building a station on land, I think
15:34:19 <planetmaker> as ship setup is identical. And as is train setup
15:34:24 <Samu> at least you have to use ships
15:34:28 <planetmaker> and you save the cost of terraforming
15:34:47 <_dp_> planetmaker, not quite, it's more work, sure, but not as much, something in between
15:35:02 <_dp_> planetmaker, setting up feeders is very fast with right hotkeys
15:36:20 <_dp_> planetmaker, and with ships going considerable distance you need a right amount of them and proper orders
15:36:32 <_dp_> planetmaker, on short distances it's just pick whaever and transfer
15:37:34 <_dp_> planetmaker, and without grfs terra costs next to nothing
15:38:00 <planetmaker> ships hardly need pro"proper" orders. At least when you have YAPF path finder. And unless you really have very weired water shape
15:38:02 <peter1138> You'll need orders.
15:38:15 <peter1138> But yes, okay, you can use feeders if you really wanted.
15:39:09 <Samu> limit number of terraform actions to 0
15:40:27 <Samu> if ppl really want to exploit stuff like that, it's good to have options to prevent t
15:40:56 <peter1138> There's already patches for it, and we have enough height levels these days.
15:42:11 <_dp_> yeah, at this point it's probably more about aesthetics than cheating
15:42:22 <_dp_> train stations it the middle of an ocean are just ugly :p
15:46:21 <andythenorth> also...deep oceans you say? o_O
15:46:24 <planetmaker> _dp_, making terraforming prohibitively expensive is easy (newgrf). As is rate-limiting the amount of terraforming (Without any change of OpenTTD)
15:46:24 <andythenorth> do you have a newsletter?
15:46:28 <andythenorth> I could subscribe
15:46:47 <peter1138> andythenorth, find the existing patch, PR it.
15:47:06 <Samu> Kdtree, why don't you crash in master or in 1.9.0? why why!! why do this to me?
15:47:53 <andythenorth> can we revisit ships that sink?
15:48:56 <planetmaker> woo... like planes that crash
15:49:11 <planetmaker> well... maybe not *exactly* like that :P
15:50:27 <planetmaker> "lost some cargo during a storm"
15:50:34 <andythenorth> dangerous zones, with rocks and whirlpools
15:50:36 <planetmaker> would be interesting for PAX ships :P
15:50:44 <andythenorth> which can be mitigated by building a lighthouse or lightship
15:51:08 <planetmaker> within N tiles distance from that
15:51:08 <andythenorth> deep water that requires appropriate ships, and isn't bridgable
15:51:08 <Heiki> piles of sunken ships turning into land
15:51:51 <planetmaker> making "water level" a variable identical to "snow line". It could vary with season :P
15:52:02 <planetmaker> but would allow toplogy under water
15:52:24 <planetmaker> so bridges could be build in water with a maximum depth of 1 or so
15:52:49 <planetmaker> but tidal water would be interesting :)
15:53:52 <Heiki> and flooding rivers when the snow melts
15:53:55 <planetmaker> would also allow for fun scenarios like "noah's train arc" or "fight and flee the climate change"
15:54:44 <peter1138> planetmaker, global warming.
15:55:12 <peter1138> every 100 years it rises 1 level :p
15:55:16 <planetmaker> sea will rise faster when you use the cheap coal and diesel engines. But will rise slower when you use the electrical ones. But only when you use / supply / build nuclear or solar power plants and not the coal ones"
15:55:28 <planetmaker> peter1138, exactly that's what I had in mind with my latter scenario
15:56:33 <andythenorth> there was a Railroad Tycoon 2 scripted scenario where the Mediterranean had been drained
15:56:37 <andythenorth> and then it flooded
15:56:49 <peter1138> GameScript did you sayd? :p
16:01:10 <Xaroth> That sounds entertaining
16:02:52 <planetmaker> such scenario could then declare a winner when the last tile is flooded for instance
16:03:17 <andythenorth> there would be a race to claim high ground
16:03:43 <peter1138> Less profit up there.
16:04:04 <planetmaker> snow line could rise simultaneously
16:04:10 <andythenorth> so all companies start at same time, winner is one with most lifetime revenue when last level floods?
16:04:21 <planetmaker> which might have an influence on which industries could be placed
16:04:23 <andythenorth> "Rising Tide, Lifts All Boats"
16:04:28 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes
16:04:44 <andythenorth> well we needed a reason to make a GS :P
16:05:12 <peter1138> Yeah, I guess the act of making sea rise would could be difficult to implement :p
16:05:42 <peter1138> Let's drop everything and do it now :D
16:05:50 <andythenorth> that's what I would do
16:05:57 <peter1138> I should fix-up my no-subtypes NRT...
16:06:02 <peter1138> I don't know if it's better.
16:06:06 <planetmaker> you think so? We have 256 height levels. Waterlevel is always 0. We could "simply" make a water level variable
16:06:08 <andythenorth> NRT = sea levels
16:06:15 <peter1138> It's certainly cleaner without all the RoadTypeIdentifiers.
16:06:19 <planetmaker> the interesting part is for how to define tiles under water
16:06:36 <planetmaker> but... could be stored identical to above water. But allow nothing but clear tiles
16:06:40 <planetmaker> and draw like flat water
16:06:55 <peter1138> That's solved, there's patches for it already.
16:07:06 <peter1138> Might need a bit of rebasing though :)
16:07:20 <planetmaker> what is solved? nrt or sea levels?
16:07:40 <peter1138> NRT is smashed to pieces.
16:07:52 <peter1138> I got pissed off with subtypes.
16:08:04 <peter1138> Inconsistent comments and code.
16:08:19 <peter1138> subtypes refering to roadtypes, roadtypes refering to roadsubtypes...
16:08:49 <peter1138> And with 63 types instead of 15, it's somewhat less necessary to split up the definitions.
16:11:28 <peter1138> Just the commit history makes no sense now.
16:11:40 <andythenorth> the split was always weird
16:11:47 <peter1138> However, without subroadtypes, I might actually be able to do the splitting it up thing that was not possible before.
16:11:51 <andythenorth> 'but the map is not extensible' they said
16:11:54 <peter1138> roadsubtypes, I mean.
16:12:13 <peter1138> Some twat just went ahead and smashed that up too.
16:19:02 <andythenorth> I've broken *all* my newgrfs
16:19:05 <andythenorth> everything is awful
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16:56:09 <Xaroth> planetmaker: WIP is already at 88% test code coverage.
16:57:43 <Samu> onstalling visual studio community 2019, let's see...
16:58:24 <Samu> downloading was faster than installing
17:09:25 <Samu> welcome to visual studio live share
17:11:20 <peter1138> Shall I bicycle tonight?
17:11:31 <peter1138> Or... shall I work on NRTv2?
17:13:43 <Samu> where is microsoft edge? it disappeared from the task bar...
17:13:53 <peter1138> Nobody uses it anyway.
17:14:51 *** synchris has joined #openttd
17:15:05 <peter1138> It's only use is to download Firefox.
17:15:06 <Samu> i must have removed it by mistake, or some strange things happened
17:20:41 <andythenorth> peter1138 laptop handlebar rack
17:36:58 <peter1138> Hm, maybe I should flatten this NRTv2 into one patch, and then resplit it.
17:38:23 <planetmaker> Samu, edge became officially a wrapper for chrome... so...
17:40:03 <Samu> bah ais can now pick colors, so annoying
17:40:46 <Samu> wasnt there an option somewhere to display only 1 color per company?
17:41:55 <andythenorth> peter1138: flatten it, then merge it?
17:46:10 <peter1138> Samu, yes there is.
17:46:29 <peter1138> andythenorth, it's flattened, I want to ... see how to tidy it up now :)
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17:55:43 <_dp_> played a game in 1.9 and holy shit stuff's broken :(
17:55:55 <_dp_> order hotkeys don't work, cloning hotkeys don't work
17:56:01 <_dp_> but that's patched stuff so ok
17:56:02 <V453000> WHAT THE FUCK WHO ADDED COLOR SCHEMES FOR VEHICLES PER CARGO
17:56:15 <_dp_> but whose bright idea was to forbid road stations on one-way road? :(
17:56:38 <V453000> kind of does the same thing as NUTS does but damn that's great
17:57:12 <andythenorth> V453000: liveries
17:57:15 <andythenorth> best feature ever
17:57:32 <_dp_> it's total bs, as now you can't build it with one-way but if you remove it you can't build either coz damn vehicles are all over the place :(
17:57:53 <_dp_> I like how my and V's messages mix xD
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17:59:07 <V453000> yeah cloning hotkeys are wtf
18:00:45 <V453000> hm the liveries can't do mixed trains :)
18:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: solution would be customizable road stations :)
18:05:30 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, custo-what?
18:05:39 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, it was perfectly fine in 1.8
18:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: like, NewGRFs providing custom layout?
18:06:41 <V453000> it's per train group?
18:07:00 <V453000> I thought it auto-detects the cargoes :D as my group naming is exactly the same including capitalization like cargo names :D
18:07:10 <V453000> well that's even better :)
18:07:16 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, why would I want newgrfs? I just want to place regular drive through station
18:07:21 <V453000> I vaguely remember talking about it here some time ago
18:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: are you sure that behaviour changed since 1.8?
18:08:31 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, 100%, someone just added extra check
18:08:42 * _dp_ using git blame way too often lately
18:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i'm pretty sure that stations never could have been one-way, so the check is probably only to remind people
18:10:16 <pnda> Something still missing in the game: stations that multiple trains can enter at once on one track.
18:10:32 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, and I don't need one way station, replacing one-way road with two-way station was totally fine
18:11:12 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i don't really understand your problem...
18:11:53 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, I want to extent a busy station, previously I could block road and build a station over it
18:12:08 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, now I have to destroy road completely and that has it's own issues
18:12:17 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, like totally not an option in cb
18:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just stop a vehicle?
18:12:55 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, but that's super annoying
18:13:18 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, also it may not be a single vehicle as they start overtaking
18:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> does ctrl+click on a vehicle still work?
18:14:38 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, but still instead of just building station now need to hunt down vehicles
18:15:42 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, allowing to build station over vehicles would be somewhat a solution
18:15:50 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, but still extra actions
18:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think reverting that check is a sensible solution
18:16:53 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, I'd like an option at least in that case
18:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but we got too many of those...
18:17:17 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, it's so annoying that I'm thinking of adding patch that chains one-way removal with station building just for 1.9
18:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and i think you're having a very niche problem there
18:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: no, a better approach would be allowing one-way status on more things (like stations, level crossings, curves, etc.)
18:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: then you could allow building station and keeping the status
18:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: and remove the status afterwards
18:19:06 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, as I said I don't need one-way station
18:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: that would help way more playstyles than just yours
18:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: and would be properly consistent
18:19:22 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, I only use one-way roads to restrict vehicles, not make them go one way
18:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but the game is not just about how YOU play it
18:20:32 <_dp_> still annoying when something I use gets removed ;)
18:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: that's why i said, i see it as more of a clarification than a removal
18:21:21 <_dp_> also it's quite likely more players won'be happy either, it's not like I'm the only one with that playstyle :p
18:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "don't silently remove one-way status when building a road station"
18:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that can be achived in two ways, like it is now, forbidding the station, or by allowing one-way status on stations
18:23:54 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, I'm ok with one-way stations, at least that can be chained just fine
18:24:11 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, though now that I think of it there is a similar thing
18:24:47 <_dp_> I always wanted rail building tool to remove signals
18:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds horrible
18:25:33 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, it's a bit dangerous but I'm ok with it
18:25:52 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, could check for train reservation just in case
18:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> don't ever implement that
18:26:12 <_dp_> well I'm not saying in should be default...
18:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "i know it's dangerous but it works for me" is a sentence nobody should ever say, ever.
18:26:33 <_dp_> but I waste a lot of time on removing those signals
18:27:04 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, removing signals is as dangerous so what, forbid that?
18:27:48 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, you just have to keep in mind that building can also remove signals, totally ok in my book
18:27:59 <_dp_> that's what I want after all
18:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: what might help you would be an area-drag remove signal tool
18:28:31 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, no, that's useless
18:28:44 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, there is already drag-removal and it's enough
18:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but drag remove is only along one line
18:29:08 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, i just want it to remove a signals where new rail goes
18:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> not across different ones?
18:29:34 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, you rarely need to remove a lot of signals
18:29:58 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, only case I can think of is when you placed them in wrong direction but then line-remove reverts it perfectly
18:31:04 <andythenorth> without signals!
18:31:07 <andythenorth> one way stations
18:31:22 <andythenorth> back to work andythenorth
18:31:24 <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, one-way tracks would be nice
18:32:01 <_dp_> andythenorth, that escalated quickly xD
18:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> is that like Kanye 2020?
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18:34:07 <_dp_> btw, that can actually be one setting to allow overbuilding signals and one-way roads
18:34:12 <_dp_> would also help for road junctions
18:35:43 <_dp_> also, I'm pretty sure I've seen suggestions about signals before so I'm not the only one here :p
18:36:08 <andythenorth> you are the only one here
18:36:13 <andythenorth> everyone else is a bot
18:40:10 <_dp_> oh, btw, adding that option only as a parameter to GS would also work
18:40:17 <_dp_> can always call it from patched client
18:41:03 <peter1138> Overbuilding signals is a bad idea.
18:41:30 <peter1138> I guess Eddi|zuHause already covered that :p
18:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: yeah, but i think i wasn't very convincing :p
18:42:18 <andythenorth> all the signals will get flooded anyway
18:42:19 <_dp_> peter1138, well, all I do is remove signal, build rail, remove signal build rail
18:42:24 <andythenorth> by NowRisingTide
18:42:40 <_dp_> peter1138, there is never a situation where I see there is signal and decide to not build rail there :p
18:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i have a very opposite opinion about that
18:43:50 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, sure, but that's what settings are for ;)
18:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: have i mentioned yet that we have too many settings?
18:44:32 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, too late to fix that :p
18:45:05 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, imo there are plenty less important settings that can be removed if you're worrying so much about it
18:45:37 <peter1138> Yeah, but "remove signal" is the act that needs to be explicit.
18:45:39 <_dp_> also, as I said, just adding it to API is also an ok option
18:46:16 <_dp_> peter1138, I'm ok with it being explicit by default
18:46:25 <peter1138> The API is meant to match what players can do.
18:46:50 <_dp_> peter1138, that again...
18:47:17 <_dp_> peter1138, players can't 1324234234*324234234 in a fraction of second, match that :p
18:47:24 <peter1138> At least in regards to AI rather than GS.
18:48:03 <_dp_> peter1138, oh, I'm ok with it being GS-only
18:48:31 <_dp_> peter1138, honestly, I'm fine as long as network command allows it ;)
18:49:06 <peter1138> Mental note, don't bother adding a little salt & pepper to unsalted nuts... it doesn't stick.
18:49:21 <_dp_> well, I guess I can actually do it even without network command, removing signal can be chained safely
18:50:04 <_dp_> but probably not the case with road station :(
18:50:32 <pnda> I love it when nvidia drivers crash
18:52:52 <_dp_> oh, and I just remembered, I also miss overbuilding truck station with bus station and vice versa
18:54:31 <_dp_> not to mention autorotation that cmclient already has, that stuff is pretty dope too
18:54:43 <andythenorth> I miss overbuilding truck with bus station too
19:08:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee opened issue #7473: Request to make new game settings those of the last loaded game https://git.io/fjLVW
19:12:36 <peter1138> Well. (Gameplay) settings presets is probably not a horrible idea.
19:13:16 <Samu> sometimes I want to go back to my settings i had before
19:14:00 <Samu> not sometimes, more like, almost always
19:16:20 <Samu> is kdtree in 1.9.0? I wonder if I'm wasting time to reproduce a bug that can't happen
19:16:45 <Samu> 3 days trying to make it happen... for nothing!
19:20:01 <peter1138> "make sure that we do not replace a tram with a normal reoad vehicle"
19:20:10 <peter1138> "make sure the roadtypes are compatible"
19:20:19 <peter1138> I suspect the latter is a sufficient check now...
19:20:38 <peter1138> road and tram will types be incompatible.
19:20:45 <peter1138> road and tram types will be incompatible.
19:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure someone will make a hybrid type :p
19:21:22 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not possible while road and tram types are separate newgrf features.
19:21:40 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, but actually that is why I think it's good not to bother testing on the first condition
19:21:56 <peter1138> hybrid road/tram...
19:22:21 <peter1138> can you say guided buses?
19:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, too slow :p
19:23:31 <peter1138> The pic on your link is better :D
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19:30:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7464: Fix: Industry coverage area is no longer rectangular. https://git.io/fjLVN
19:34:15 <Samu> time to make kdtree crash on master
19:34:58 <andythenorth> works really well, until it gets insane :P
19:35:10 <andythenorth> I can't clear 5k tonnes
19:35:25 <V453000> biggur and moar tranez
19:35:43 <V453000> I will pretend I didn't see that 90deg turn
19:35:52 <andythenorth> wagon capacity: 500t
19:36:05 <andythenorth> engine 64k horsepower
19:42:17 <peter1138> But is that 64000 or 65535?
19:42:36 <Samu> what is this SDK 8.1 visual studio 2019 complains about
19:43:31 <Samu> i open 142 files now, right?
19:44:07 <glx> but for me it default to 10 SDK
19:44:51 <glx> I switched to 2019 and no issues
19:46:14 <Samu> 1>C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio\2019\Community\MSBuild\Microsoft\VC\v160\Microsoft.Cpp.WindowsSDK.targets(46,5): error MSB8036: The Windows SDK version 8.1 was not found. Install the required version of Windows SDK or change the SDK version in the project property pages or by right-clicking the solution and selecting "Retarget solution".
19:46:14 <Samu> 1>Done building project "strgen_vs142.vcxproj" -- FAILED.
19:46:27 <Samu> settingsgen_vs142.vcxproj
19:47:45 <glx> hmm indeed they are set to 8.1
19:52:56 <andythenorth> so town-producer industries
19:53:16 <andythenorth> production is in L49 and L61
19:53:49 <andythenorth> multiplier is 32 for scrap yards
19:53:52 <glx> but it compiles fine for me
19:54:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^^^ this results in insane production in large towns
19:54:33 <andythenorth> above about 10k, it gets quite unreasonable
19:54:58 <andythenorth> cap it? reduce multiplier, but increase floor?
19:55:09 <andythenorth> increase proportionally less above a threshold?
19:55:20 <andythenorth> do it as log(something)?
19:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> cap it, allow multiple industries?
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20:22:46 <andythenorth> seems reasonable
20:29:11 <andythenorth> town production at least gives a reason to grow a town
20:29:27 <andythenorth> next step would be newgrf control over town growth
20:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what town effect is for
20:37:03 <andythenorth> well not really eh?
20:37:12 <andythenorth> I mean I have to set it, or the game is broken
20:37:21 <andythenorth> but it's about as useful as an appendix
20:37:26 * andythenorth doesn't have an appendix
20:37:52 <andythenorth> also FIRS breaks towns if Goods isn't defined
20:38:08 <andythenorth> do I need to make a house set? :P
20:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that helps :p
20:38:42 <andythenorth> well I see no way to fix default houses when I break the cargos
20:38:49 <andythenorth> other than using the approved API
20:39:18 <andythenorth> anyway, much lolz, and BIAB
20:40:31 <Samu> what do I do? wait for a fix?
20:43:07 <Samu> do I install sdk 8.1 or wait for a fix?
20:53:27 <Samu> get bored of waiting perhaps
20:56:44 <nielsm> Samu if you can confirm it solves the issue I'll approve that pr
20:57:25 <Samu> what was the command? git pr 7474 ?
21:00:45 <Samu> i can finally crash kdtree... :p
21:15:26 <Samu> yep, master now builds too
21:30:19 <peter1138> Is this thing still on?
21:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there's like a high-pitched hum
21:46:05 <peter1138> So should I use chaining or not? :/
21:47:17 <peter1138> Oh, I have a kdtree crash :p
21:52:13 <Xaroth> not 100% clear on what it does
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21:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i always get annoyed when i can't chain function calls
21:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> list.sort().filter().join()...
21:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> no, can't do that because sort() doesn't have a return type
21:56:55 <andythenorth> I get annoyed when I can't nest list comprehensions :P
21:57:02 <andythenorth> mostly because that's totally unreadable
21:57:59 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, I'm just miffed that "TileArea ta(x, y, z).Expand();" doesn't work :(
21:58:18 <peter1138> "TileArea ta = TileArea(x, y, z).Expand(r);" would work.
22:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know enough about C++ to judge whether you can make the first line work by some alternate construct
22:06:12 <peter1138> Hmm, well, that's not quite the same.
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22:09:49 <peter1138> Ok, I'm going to assume this kdtree crash is nothing to do with NRT :)
22:14:14 <peter1138> Something about removing a station.
22:14:35 <Samu> that's the crash i'm trying to reproduce for 3 days!
22:14:59 <Samu> it's official! It was not my system!
22:15:25 <peter1138> Well, this doesn't crash my computer.
22:15:47 <Samu> that one was about HandleMouseEvents
22:16:19 <Samu> happens after the kdtree crash
22:16:32 <glx> that's because main window hang Samu
22:16:51 <nielsm> one annoying thing about kdtree debugging is that you generally can't rely on savegames to reproduce bugs, you need to know a sequence of commands to trigger it
22:17:15 <nielsm> (unless the savegame conversion is the cause)
22:17:42 <nielsm> since the trees are rebuilt fresh on load, so right after loading the game they are definitely not inconsistent
22:21:05 <peter1138> JGR hasn't replied to my request on that PR.
22:52:12 <peter1138> Need to fix bridge over-building.
22:59:45 <peter1138> Well, I guess I won't be doing any testing with AIs tonight.
23:01:36 <Wolf01> I'm going to test netflix, and my ability to sleep after 3 minutes
23:02:13 <andythenorth> I need to make some super OP vehicles
23:02:20 <andythenorth> very high capacity
23:05:46 <andythenorth> how do I fix a town rating?
23:05:50 <andythenorth> other than bribes?
23:06:34 <Samu> about the station removal kdtree crash, I'm starting to think it's related to station resizing
23:06:54 <Samu> sign moves position or so
23:08:41 <Supercheese> No cheat to disable town-rating restriction stuff?
23:08:50 <Supercheese> Would be a great addition to the cheat menu
23:09:08 <Supercheese> "Local authority can go take a hike, I'mma do what I want"
23:09:12 <Samu> plant trees to appease local authority
23:09:30 <Supercheese> "I will demolish as many trees as I please and you can't stop me"
23:10:28 <Samu> you just gave me an idea
23:10:46 <Samu> local authority on rivers
23:10:56 <Samu> they should not like that either
23:11:20 <Supercheese> Removing rivers in the first place is questionable
23:11:34 <Supercheese> you can't just demolish a river willy nilly
23:12:13 <Supercheese> especially given there's no nice way to restore them if you reconsider things
23:12:38 <andythenorth> this town has hated me for 30 years
23:12:48 <andythenorth> I've bribed it every time I need a station
23:13:42 <andythenorth> I have 5 pickup stations allegedly within the catchment, all high rated
23:13:56 * andythenorth wonders if it's broken
23:17:06 <_dp_> andythenorth, trees or magic bulldozer
23:17:18 <_dp_> andythenorth, cmclient also helps as it shows exact rating value ;)
23:18:42 <andythenorth> trees has failed consistently
23:18:54 <_dp_> andythenorth, well, you need to plant them right
23:19:08 <_dp_> andythenorth, it's 25 tiles manhattan and only planting on empty tile
23:19:39 <_dp_> andythenorth, if there is no empty tile you can bomb all trees dropping rating to -1000 cap and plant them again
23:20:26 <_dp_> andythenorth, and ofc doesn't work with large towns as there is no space for trees
23:20:28 <andythenorth> can't bomb much, too many tracks
23:20:40 <_dp_> andythenorth, cmclien has treedozer ;)
23:20:46 <glx> yeah remove more trees, the rating can't go lower
23:21:09 <glx> then plant squares of trees
23:21:14 <peter1138> I guess treedozer is still that clunky client-side-only thing.
23:21:53 <glx> bribing can fail very hard :)
23:22:17 <peter1138> Ok, bridge overbuilding now works
23:26:45 <milek7> there should be 'lobby', more expensive but without random fail ;)
23:28:38 <_dp_> there should be just an option to disable that bs :p
23:29:32 <_dp_> it's even there already, just choice is only betweed bad and very bad
23:30:53 <peter1138> Yup, remove all game play. Just leave a sandbox. Much fun.
23:32:02 <_dp_> peter1138, not sure if you're serious or just trolling
23:32:11 <_dp_> peter1138, coz sounds like a great plan to me :p
23:34:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7475: Fix #6618: Viewport vehicle draw flickering https://git.io/fjL6X
23:35:57 <_dp_> I have magic bulldozer running on server for years and nobody complained so far
23:36:11 <_dp_> and I'm very happy not having to tell every second noob to plant trees :p
23:45:09 <peter1138> Sarcasm isn't trolling, btw :p
23:45:28 <peter1138> + * @param tile the tile to convert
23:45:28 <peter1138> + * @param to_type the RoadTypeIdentifier to be converted
23:45:33 <peter1138> +static bool CanConvertRoadType(Owner owner, RoadType basetype)
23:45:43 <peter1138> Something tells me those parameters don't match...
23:47:53 <_dp_> that function def doesn't make sense tbh
continue to next day ⏵
