IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-03-05
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01:40:30 <Beerbelott> glx: It *does* seem _file_to_saveload is persistent :)
01:42:11 <Beerbelott> Is there a way to trigger that manually? :p
01:42:21 <Beerbelott> (same q°, always :D )
01:46:24 <Beerbelott> fiddled w/ code a bit to trigger that each day :D
01:48:37 <Beerbelott> Yes, _file_to_saveload does not seem to be touched
01:49:12 <glx> at least from the GUI it does
01:50:02 <Beerbelott> DoAutosave() does not seem to use the global variable though, thus it seems logical
01:50:37 <Beerbelott> lemme check if using the save command on the server wreaks havok
01:51:09 <Beerbelott> I am testing in server mode atm
01:51:15 <Beerbelott> that's what I care the most for
01:51:27 <Beerbelott> a client can always reload the right game
01:51:45 <Beerbelott> What I want is bring (auto-)rstart of the server in the same mode
01:52:52 <glx> 'load' console command use it
01:54:42 <Beerbelott> Server maintainers are usually not there to repair failed restarts ;)
01:55:04 <Beerbelott> well I just tried the save command on the server, it seems OK for _file_to_saveload, untouched
01:59:29 <Beerbelott> I'm searching for all lines referencing _file_to_saveload
02:00:14 <Beerbelott> After a quick search, I found nothing touching/using it other than save/load opeartions and game creation
02:00:42 <Beerbelott> I guess that's persistent enough to try to use it
02:22:00 <Samu> could it also be applied to docks?
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04:33:46 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7301: Feature: When filtering purchase list by cargo type, make buy button perform a refit if required. https://git.io/fhxi0
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05:58:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jcoletto77 commented on issue #7321: RailTypes: Introduction date not enforced https://git.io/fhxPL
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10:32:38 <peter1138> Pikka, there's some new AI calls that may interest you.
10:32:44 <peter1138> Unless you already saw them.
10:42:28 <peter1138> Did I miss that? :(
10:43:29 <Pikka> just at a glance, I don't see it...
10:44:53 <Pikka> even so, being able to set 2cc is really going to improve the looks of AIs with NewGRF :D
10:45:35 <Pikka> will it make it into 1.9?
10:45:56 <peter1138> If you'd responded when I kept poking you to test it, other the past couple of months, you'd've had Group colours too :p
10:46:06 <peter1138> So you shouldn't keep going away.
10:46:09 <peter1138> It's already in 1.9.
10:47:35 <Pikka> sorry... uni started back - I'm sitting in the library right now :P I'll fo sho test it tonight though
11:26:53 <peter1138> Should `restart` use the current running game settings, or the new-game settings?
11:27:12 <peter1138> It seems to do the latter.
11:27:27 <planetmaker> well... what would use the new-game settings, if not restart?
11:27:49 <planetmaker> so ... newgame, restart and reload?
11:27:58 <peter1138> Getting overloaded, but yeah.
11:28:13 <planetmaker> so the difference between restart and reload is the random seed (and maybe version differences)?
11:28:29 <peter1138> No, reload would load the current savegame again.
11:28:35 <peter1138> restart would start it afresh.
11:28:46 <peter1138> In that patch, restart loads the current savegame.
11:28:47 <planetmaker> yes, but I'm thinking server: I upload a virtually virgin savegame
11:29:11 <peter1138> Is that for the map, or for the settings?
11:29:16 <planetmaker> then restart would regenerate the same map from settings. and reload reload it from file
11:29:37 <planetmaker> it *should* result in the same, all other things being equal
11:30:22 <planetmaker> on a complete tangent: I have got reports, that the zoom-level of loaded maps in 1.9.0-xx is different than for 1.8.0
11:30:29 <planetmaker> I didn't yet investitgate
11:31:03 <planetmaker> first things first though: lunch :) l8r
11:31:37 <peter1138> Zoomed in or out? heh
11:33:25 <peter1138> Tried with 1.6.1 and master... absolutely no difference.
11:34:18 <peter1138> Other than the savegame was horribly slow in pre-1.9 :)
11:49:16 <peter1138> Towns building bridges over rail/one-way roads is quite cool.
11:49:35 <peter1138> And it was a Samu-patch :p
11:52:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhxyj
12:30:41 <planetmaker> maps were said to be too far zoomed-out
12:40:20 <peter1138> Well I can't replicate tha.
12:55:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it kinda makes sense for "restart" to load the original scenario, if it was started from one
12:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea how you would keep the reference to that scenario file
13:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i would think "reload" would load the previous saved game, not the game i originally loaded.
13:12:26 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, what would you expect, a game running and typing 'reload'? A savegame which was played *before* the current one?
13:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but if i made a save inbetween
13:12:45 <planetmaker> I'd expect the current map being reloaded from the starting save
13:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i want it to reload that
13:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> not the original one
13:13:09 <planetmaker> you mean an arbitrary save made in between?
13:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. the last time i saved this game
13:13:18 <planetmaker> no... that's load
13:13:22 <planetmaker> and you specify which file
13:13:32 <planetmaker> reload is loading something you loaded once before at least
14:00:58 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhxQB
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16:10:18 <Samu> min max opcodes made it into RC1
16:31:46 <Beerbelott> nielsm: -h gives a list of what's available
16:31:52 <Beerbelott> How do I know what's in use?
17:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so the website typo thing is valid, but do we want to bother?
17:17:42 <nielsm> integrate it but don't release a new site version until next actual update?
17:18:30 <nielsm> merge it but don't integrate *
17:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i can approve, but not merge
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17:46:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7330: Feature: Add autosave and sendmap save formats https://git.io/fhxNg
17:48:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7330: Feature: Add autosave and sendmap save formats https://git.io/fhxNw
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17:52:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #7047: Add #6887: Highlight tiles within local authority of towns https://git.io/fhn44
18:16:30 <nielsm> :( derail valley job ruined by falling through the terrain
18:16:57 <Alberth> a bit of quicksand found eh? :p
18:17:34 <Alberth> or quick-rock, perhaps :p
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18:29:06 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhxAy
18:29:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhxA9
18:30:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhxAQ
18:31:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhxAd
18:32:05 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhxAF
18:35:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhd4b
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18:47:59 <peter1138> At least it built this time :p
18:59:24 <Samu> whos responsible for bananas?
19:01:28 <Samu> hmm do I post on the forum?
19:02:05 <peter1138> Send an email to info@openttd.org
19:02:21 <peter1138> Or indeed post to the forum.
19:02:33 <peter1138> Pretty sure you've posted there before :p
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19:46:21 <Beerbelott> I relly need to check my commits better before pushing :\
19:46:50 <Beerbelott> and I really need to check my typos better before writing :p
19:50:38 <Alberth> I used to read the diffs, it's amazing how many errors you find then
19:51:02 <nielsm> I had a thought about making a system for adding more company rating part scores, having different sets of rating parts selectable, and then making a system for having a GS set the company ratings
19:51:53 <nielsm> so a GS could for instance rate companies on how many GS-set goals they have completed in the past 5 years, and such
19:54:40 <nielsm> and for things like coop servers, you could have a GS that measures how well the shared goal is progressing
19:54:54 <Alberth> I wondered whether being able to set a price-policy for a company could work
19:55:26 <nielsm> like per-company base costs?
19:56:01 <Alberth> more tuned I think, eg policy for cargo from an area or to an area, or by kind of cargo
19:56:28 <nielsm> that's almost veering into callback-ish territory
19:56:35 <nielsm> which GS can't support in the current model
19:56:48 <Alberth> that's why I said policy rather than payouts :)
19:57:48 <Alberth> current payout model has a few parameters to compute the actual pyment, one could tune those parameters
19:58:22 <Alberth> or be able to switch between different payment models (which are all coded in c++ of course
19:58:53 <Alberth> GS then only says "for this area, payment is 0"
19:59:11 <Alberth> ie players don't get any money for it
19:59:49 <Alberth> or favor high speed by making that paraneter more important, eg 300% instead of 100%
20:01:00 <nielsm> so basically define one or more areas (as orthogonal tile areas, circular radial areas, or perhaps even bitmap tile areas) and when cargo is delivered to a station? industry? in that area a payment modifier is applied
20:01:25 <Alberth> something in that direction
20:02:18 <Alberth> somewhat related: the biggest problem with Busy Bee is that it can see arriving cargo, and see obtained cargo, but there is no connection.
20:02:42 <Alberth> so no way to find whether a player has set a specific route
20:02:59 <Alberth> my model idea wouldn't solve that either though
20:03:58 <Alberth> but such routes would basically be the subsidized routes
20:04:10 <Alberth> but under GS control then, I think
20:04:27 <nielsm> yeah, I think GS can create subsidies in the original subsidy system
20:05:28 <Alberth> :o it can? that's nice
20:05:44 <nielsm> for something like this to be really interesting, I think you'd need some interactive tools for the GS in the scenario editor, to let the scenario designer paint tile areas for the GS to use
20:06:13 <Alberth> yeah, could also be used for industry creation, ie coal mines in this area
20:06:17 <nielsm> so you could e.g. make areas of separate islands or whatever
20:06:45 <nielsm> kind of similar to railroad tycoon 2 territories, actually
20:07:00 <nielsm> you could even have construction restrictions on them then
20:08:37 <Alberth> would nicely fit in the new scenario file format; I started that, but got stuck in tar-file handling
20:08:45 <nielsm> how about adding a new 8 bit map array, storing the territory index, then have territories defining some base rules possibly per company
20:09:04 <nielsm> that would also allow "ocean can't be raised" implementation
20:09:15 <nielsm> since you could define the ocean as territory not allowing landscape mods
20:09:31 <Alberth> are you familiar with the new scenario format?
20:10:52 <nielsm> well, this vague idea for a new map array would already be fully occupied by any and all tile types, so no contention about it :P
20:11:00 <Alberth> basically, a scenario is not a saved game, it's a description of how to generate a new map
20:11:33 <Alberth> so you can change map-size, newgrfs, and what not
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20:14:03 <Alberth> new map array is simple, remove the rail tiles, and possibly the road tiles, and move them to a separate area with specialized storage.
20:14:17 <Alberth> big question, what does that specialized area look like :p
20:17:43 <nielsm> want rct style terrain
20:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to have trouble using solar power near the north pole
20:21:45 <nielsm> solar power has no future
20:21:55 <nielsm> haven't you heard, the sun is going to go boom at some point in the future?
20:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but, solar power will increase until that point :p
20:26:18 <Alberth> then you end up in multi-layer maps I think?
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20:50:45 <TrueBrain> awh, DJGPP doesn't 'just compile' :(
20:51:44 <nielsm> has djgpp even been receiving updates at all? I have the idea that it might be stuck pre-c++11
20:55:27 <TrueBrain> currently the issue is that STRICT_ANSI is enabled
20:55:34 <TrueBrain> in no surprise to anyone ever, things fail after that :P
20:55:57 <nielsm> what does that mean? :|
20:56:20 <TrueBrain> -ansi -pedantic does that too
20:56:34 <TrueBrain> just never knew you could do that with C++
20:59:05 <TrueBrain> okay, gnu++11 vs c++11
21:00:09 <TrueBrain> compiled and linked :o
21:00:44 <nielsm> if you get a binary I can test it on some bare metal dos
21:00:49 <TrueBrain> # file bin/openttd.exe
21:00:49 <TrueBrain> bin/openttd.exe: MS-DOS executable, COFF for MS-DOS, DJGPP go32 DOS extender
21:01:36 <TrueBrain> yeah .. I am merely curious if it starts :P
21:01:42 <TrueBrain> no clue yet how to get Allegro on it
21:01:45 <peter1138> btw is it safe to ignore c++11 warnings from the objc parts on osx?
21:02:28 <TrueBrain> but 25 MiB is a bit excessive
21:02:30 <TrueBrain> possibly debug stuff
21:03:53 <nielsm> transferring via ws_ftp in win95...
21:05:47 <TrueBrain> Allegro dropped DOS support since 4.2 :D
21:06:28 <nielsm> which version is this built from?
21:07:48 <nielsm> can't visit openttd.org in internet explorer 3.0, it doesn't support TLS :(
21:08:13 <TrueBrain> wow .. that works ..
21:08:24 <TrueBrain> and build from my branch with the removal of OSes and fixes of Haiku
21:08:30 <nielsm> it can sufficiently to create the base dir structure
21:08:46 <TrueBrain> if I can fix allegro
21:08:49 <TrueBrain> I can create a bundle
21:11:01 <TrueBrain> but Allegro is being annoying :P
21:11:35 <TrueBrain> makefile.all:248: *** recipe commences before first target. Stop.
21:14:02 <TrueBrain> no clue how to do Allegro for DOS
21:14:06 <TrueBrain> not sure I want to know either :P
21:15:24 <nielsm> they don't have some kind of prebuilt libraries from the last dos-supporting version?
21:15:33 <TrueBrain> not what I can find
21:15:42 <TrueBrain> and compiling myself .. seems I dont have the right make
21:16:38 <TrueBrain> not sure what this is?
21:17:03 <TrueBrain> yeah, finding sources is easy :P
21:17:11 <TrueBrain> building them on the other hand .... :D
21:17:27 <TrueBrain> possibly it is easier to build it on DOS
21:17:35 <TrueBrain> but the crossbuilder doesn't want to work really
21:17:53 <nielsm> ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pc/languages/djgpp/current/v2tk/allegro/
21:18:03 <nielsm> looks like all422ar2.zip has libs and includes
21:18:27 <TrueBrain> are we going to trust random binaries? :D
21:18:42 <nielsm> it's listed as an official mirror from allegro's own site
21:19:04 <TrueBrain> okay .. well, I can try
21:20:28 <TrueBrain> should we be doing this? :D
21:21:01 <TrueBrain> Allegro is at version 5 :P
21:22:36 <nielsm> "Allegro 5 is not backwards compatible with Allegro 4."
21:22:44 <nielsm> so I think ottd uses allegro 4 regardless?
21:25:24 <TrueBrain> yeah .. so we can never upgrade :P
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21:26:21 <TrueBrain> ugh .. that 'target vs build' and 'build vs host'
21:26:40 <TrueBrain> build can be either your system of the cross compile system, depending if it is 'target' or 'host'
21:26:44 <TrueBrain> fucking hate cross compiling :P
21:27:51 <nielsm> I wonder how long it'll take to build on a 500 mhz via epia with 128 mb ram...
21:29:43 <TrueBrain> almost no more BE systems alive
21:29:55 <TrueBrain> means we also hav eno idea of BE still works :P
21:30:09 <TrueBrain> k, link errors .. lets see ..
21:30:24 <TrueBrain> i586-pc-msdosdjgpp/bin/ld: music/allegro_m.o: bad reloc address 0x1 in section `.gnu.linkonce.t._ZNK19MusicDriver_Allegro7GetNameEv'
21:32:13 <TrueBrain> so what library has that .. hmm
21:35:19 <TrueBrain> ah, the library is not understood
21:38:54 <TrueBrain> nielsm: you got zip on that machine?
21:39:34 <TrueBrain> video, sound, music
21:42:08 <nielsm> well lots of long file names there
21:42:14 <nielsm> I wonder if those will be findable
21:46:14 <TrueBrain> zlib support exists
21:46:22 <TrueBrain> others will be more tricky I guess :P
21:47:17 <TrueBrain> again, no cluei why we are doing this :P
21:47:19 <TrueBrain> but it works, I guess :D
21:51:02 <TrueBrain> wow, allegro is not that quick :P
21:51:17 <nielsm> maybe it's not using a good vesa mode or something
21:51:29 <nielsm> trying under purer dos instead of a win95 dos box
21:51:38 <nielsm> nope, it just makes the machine reboot
21:52:35 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6887: Add layer showing boundaries for local authorities https://git.io/fhxjA
21:57:17 <nielsm> runs better after setting blitter = 8bpp-optimized
21:57:36 <TrueBrain> and disable animation :D
21:57:47 <TrueBrain> okay, it only requires one code fix, nice
21:58:13 <TrueBrain> it has been broken for months, if not years btw :P But that is not a real surprise to anyone :D
21:59:08 <nielsm> now it's running slow despite nothing obvious showing in the fps window :(
22:02:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7326: Remove MorphOS / AmigaOS / BeOS support and libtimidity support https://git.io/fhpeG
22:03:03 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7326: Remove MorphOS / AmigaOS / BeOS support and libtimidity support https://git.io/fhxzA
22:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i fell into a cave, and so far every attempt at digging myself out has gotten me to fall deeper
22:07:29 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: so die already :P (okay, out of context this sounds weird)
22:07:56 <TrueBrain> or keep going and hope you have the right stuff with you? :P
22:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> dieing sounds like a horrible idea, i'll never find my rover again
22:08:51 <TrueBrain> create a new one :P
22:09:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
22:09:35 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I hope someone debugs both Haiku and DOS to find out the issues on both
22:09:39 <TrueBrain> but at least it compiles :P
22:09:59 <nielsm> it may not run well, but at least it still runs :)
22:11:05 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7331: Fix Haiku and DJGPP support https://git.io/fhpew
22:11:26 <TrueBrain> stupid # before tab rule :P
22:13:21 <nielsm> so when's djgpp target entering the CI? :P
22:13:26 <peter1138> well that meal was nice but kinda excessive
22:13:42 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I think I add both Haiku and DJGPP soon to the CompileFarm
22:13:47 <TrueBrain> not sure it should run every CI
22:13:55 <TrueBrain> possibly .. we just run it every week?
22:15:17 <nielsm> weekly sounds fine, maybe with the friday nightly build
22:15:40 <peter1138> nightly dos builds?
22:15:40 <nielsm> so the dedicated can spend the weekend fixing support for niche operating systems
22:15:52 <TrueBrain> I guess it is not a good idea to add them to stable releases yet, given they are not stable :D
22:16:42 <TrueBrain> meh; come to think ofit, adding them to the CI might be easiest .. DJGPP checks the NETWORK stuff
22:16:44 <peter1138> we should work on removing no network support
22:16:45 <TrueBrain> depends on the build-times
22:16:57 <TrueBrain> pfft, we did fix DOS, so ... pfffft
22:16:57 <peter1138> stub fubctions instead i guess?
22:17:10 <TrueBrain> that would be a sane solution
22:17:23 <nielsm> okay that train route I built
22:17:30 <nielsm> it finally finished loading the train with coal now
22:17:35 <nielsm> heading to the power station...
22:18:17 <nielsm> so yeah about 12 minutes of real time to load 120 tonnes of coal on a train
22:18:33 <TrueBrain> does it get better than?
22:18:51 <nielsm> it runs no faster on ffwd
22:18:58 <TrueBrain> so it really is something not timed
22:19:08 <nielsm> something happening between GameLoop calls slows it down
22:19:31 <TrueBrain> soon we have a Docker which builds OpenTTD .. so someone can debug ;)
22:19:49 <nielsm> btw, docker images of dedicated server? :D
22:20:44 <nielsm> Beerbelott who cares about emulation :D
22:21:22 <TrueBrain> LordAro: can you hit that approve button again pretty please? :D
22:21:51 <Beerbelott> nielsm: Did not you say it was making your DOS true box rebooting?
22:21:59 <Beerbelott> I get back to the console :p
22:22:55 <TrueBrain> nielsm: guess we can add a release target for linux-dedicated, if that is what you meant
22:23:16 <TrueBrain> that is also a good idea
22:24:05 <TrueBrain> we can publish it on Docker Hub, so that is easy too
22:24:15 <milek7> tried it in freedos on qemu, didn't work
22:24:37 <TrueBrain> the information: "doesn work" or "to no avail" is not really helping :P
22:24:43 <TrueBrain> we need someone to check what is breaking exactly :D
22:28:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
22:28:13 <TrueBrain> I labeled it for you nielsm :P
22:29:56 <nielsm> second coal delivery being made now!
22:31:16 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7324: Codechange: [C++11] Use override specifer for overriding member declarations https://git.io/fhxq0
22:32:03 <TrueBrain> proudest moment of the day \o/ :)
22:34:11 <TrueBrain> no other odd platforms we support, I think
22:34:21 <TrueBrain> BSD, but you cannot run that in Docker ofc
22:34:28 <TrueBrain> and crosscompiling to there is silly
22:35:06 <nielsm> I haven't managed to install a copy of that anywhere yet
22:35:22 <TrueBrain> orudge: you still supporting OS/2 :)
22:35:23 <nielsm> but I've also only tried the old versions
22:35:40 <nielsm> not any of the eComStation and later
22:36:41 <TrueBrain> cant find a docker that produces OS/2 binaries
22:37:57 <TrueBrain> SDL2 also no longer supports OS/2
22:38:05 <nielsm> ahh, maybe the reboot outside of a win95 dos box has to do with long file name support, because it _can_ access LFNs when running under win95
22:38:11 <nielsm> the save game I made has a long name
22:40:29 <TrueBrain> that is sure possible
22:41:12 <milek7> hm, it cannot find graphics set
22:42:33 <nielsm> I suggest copying in some baseset files :P
22:42:57 <TrueBrain> as always, you have to put opengfx in the right folder yourself :)
22:43:07 <TrueBrain> k, off to bed for me; enjoy the old days :P
22:43:10 <TrueBrain> tnx for testing nielsm :)
22:47:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
22:49:44 <m3henry> Hopefully that's the last rebase I need to do
22:58:45 <Beerbelott> Got warnings building fro master: warning: macro "__DATE__" might prevent reproducible builds [-Wdate-time]
23:04:37 <Samu> dos is still supported in this day and age? hmm
23:05:39 <nielsm> transport tycoon was originally a DOS game, so ottd should strive to continually support DOS as a matter of principle
23:09:39 <milek7> with doslfn it goes further, but segfaults
continue to next day ⏵
