IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-03-01
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00:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the bestest PR i ever got in :p
00:02:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7301: Feature: When filtering purchase list by cargo type, make buy button perform a refit if required. https://git.io/fhALI
00:04:12 <Samu> I'm testing aircraft crashes
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00:15:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7293: Add: No plane crashes unless runway is too short option https://git.io/fhALC
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00:17:04 <Samu> and the new 1 becomes a mix of old 0 and 1
00:17:56 <Samu> it's doing as I intended
00:18:05 * LordAro finished playing the game
00:20:45 <Samu> how to politely disagree?
00:21:10 <peter1138> Why do you think two giant tables refutes what Eddi|zuHause wrote?
00:22:08 <Samu> he's saying I duplicated one of the settings ;/
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00:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, part of what i wrote seems to be wrong... or the intention was miscommunicated previously. setting plane crashes to "none" seems to also disable the too-short plane crashes
00:23:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash … https://git.io/fhALz
00:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> alternate suggestion :)
00:26:27 <drac_boy> hmm I don't have any :)
00:29:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7301: Feature: When filtering purchase list by cargo type, make buy button perform a refit if required. https://git.io/fhAIp
00:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i have no clue if the plane crash magic numbers are even any good to begin with
00:32:15 <drac_boy> I generally have it at 'zero' so I'm no help :)
00:32:19 <peter1138> I'm pretty sure that isn't the point either, heh.
00:40:18 <peter1138> Stupid towns keep building bridges over my tracks... ;)
00:40:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
00:40:34 <Beerbelott> I sugeest we get magic numbers from dereferenced memory space to get truly random content :p
00:41:03 <peter1138> Like openssl/openssh/whicheveroneitwas...
00:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: we'll just get debian maintainers to patch it out
00:41:45 <Beerbelott> Well, if random becomes 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0, it's technically still random, unless proven otherwise
00:42:29 <Beerbelott> peter1138: the openssl bug in Debian, leading to revoked certs in 2004?
00:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that wasn't that long ago
00:43:16 <Samu> what about those people who actually want no crashes
00:43:45 <Beerbelott> Generated since 2006-09-17
00:45:23 <Beerbelott> peter1138: Are u refering to another bug?
00:45:52 <Samu> I'm looking at Eddi|zuHause new 0
00:49:10 <Beerbelott> Eddi|zuHause: Good call! Forgot aboutthat classic xkcd already
01:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, i missed the moment to congratulate my brother for his non-birthday
01:01:18 <drac_boy> heh its still feburary here :-s
01:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there'll be a real birthday next year
01:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> we hope, since it's so hard to find factors of big numbers.
01:09:41 <Samu> got the crash test results
01:10:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash … https://git.io/fhAtG
01:12:41 <Samu> the cheat description is wrong now
01:13:25 <Samu> "Jetplanes will not crash (frequently) on small airports"
01:13:39 <Samu> they won't crash at all now
01:14:42 <Samu> only for plane_crashes = 0
01:16:58 <Samu> this means in multiplayer servers, large airplanes will always crash even if the setting is none
01:17:41 * drac_boy watches samu make a 737 burn into ash? :p
01:18:37 <Samu> it's basically my 1 making into 0
01:19:18 <Samu> "None" perhaps needs renaming then?
01:23:09 <Samu> what about those guys who actually want a real "non"
01:23:12 <Samu> what about those guys who actually want a real "none"
01:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> what about those people? they can either use a NewGRF that sets all planes to be "small", or they can enable the cheat in addition to setting at 0
01:29:42 <Beerbelott> That's counter-intuitive
01:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> or alternatively, a NewGRF that sets all airports to be "large"
01:30:04 <Beerbelott> Setting at 0 has an implicit meaning... which is not the case here
01:30:18 * drac_boy would love to see a 737 land at the dirt runaway on the small airport :-p
01:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: everybody important i know already believed that that's what the setting already meant
01:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i also just learned that the crash chance depends on the aircraft's top speed as well, as the chance is rerolled every tick that the plane is above taxiing speed
01:33:48 <Samu> in multiplayer you can't cheat
01:37:50 <Samu> there are some AIs that were actually checking this setting to decide whether to buy large airplanes for small airports
01:39:22 <drac_boy> have fun with airplanes and empty birthdays anyway .. off here
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01:48:14 <Samu> i hate newgrfs being the solution to problems :|
01:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not an empty birthday. it's a nonbirthday
01:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> as in, one that doesn't exist
01:55:56 <Samu> no, doesn't look like it's AIAI, must check DictatorAI
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02:31:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
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02:43:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhAqW
02:46:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhAq8
03:03:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhAq2
03:03:17 <Beerbelott> Eddi|zuHause: Thx to ur xkcd link, I navigate from one to another, stumbled upon https://xkcd.com/1818/ and ended up watching/reading about Rayleight scattering, colour perception, light polarization theories and applications.....
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04:03:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fhAmk
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04:30:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7094: Fix #7088: Retrieve an appropriate name for a non-existant AI/GS when displaying a textfile https://git.io/fhAmZ
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05:46:51 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
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07:42:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fhAYS
07:43:44 <nielsm> and now off to work, bye again!
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08:38:09 <andythenorth> why are running costs so high on the coop server
08:38:21 <andythenorth> setting is 'low'
08:38:39 <andythenorth> but Horse run costs are 3x what I get locally with 'medium'
08:46:55 <peter1138> Apparently it is impossible to make money with it on, but it seems not.
08:47:26 <andythenorth> haven't used that for years
08:47:37 <andythenorth> Horse Feature: Works With Inflation
08:55:40 <andythenorth> yeah inflation nerfed all my freight trains
09:02:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN dismissed a review for pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fhAmk
09:02:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
09:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> with inflation for 170 years,, running costs are about 5 times higher relative to income
09:11:05 <peter1138> Yeah it's not be 170 years year :)
10:01:43 <planetmaker> hangars need a "sort by size" filtering. For on small airports I don't want to build big planes
10:01:58 <planetmaker> and I have to read each plane's text to know whether it is small or big
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10:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> a similar step would be, in a train depot, to only show electric engines
10:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how to make that sensibly usable with newgrf railtypes
10:33:46 <peter1138> What does this achieve?
10:34:02 <peter1138> (And why is there a giant table with no other notes in the omments...)
10:34:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash … https://git.io/fhAsu
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10:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i link a to revision/hash?
10:40:47 <peter1138> Just write the hash. Full or abbreviated, it will work it out.
10:45:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash … https://git.io/fhAsS
11:02:03 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash … https://git.io/fhAGO
11:02:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i hope that makes it a bit clearer what everyone wanted to achieve
12:01:20 <peter1138> So you change "plane crashes: none" to be "plane crashes: none except large aircraft on small airports"
12:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that, yes
12:02:54 <peter1138> And samu just adds that as an additional option.
12:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm a bit hesitant on that, because it feels like too wordy for the settings list
12:03:01 <peter1138> But you also increase the chance.
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13:03:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhAnE
13:20:35 <andythenorth> that was ages ago
13:32:23 <peter1138> I ate my mini-salad.
13:39:24 <andythenorth> I ate wheat-free toast
13:40:22 <peter1138> I've got a Lancashire oven bottom muffin. Which is actually just a soft white roll...
13:41:35 <peter1138> Crazy Lancastrians, I guess.
13:57:10 <andythenorth> FIRS Furniture Factory, what does it produce though?
14:03:03 <andythenorth> what cargo unit for that? o_O
14:03:20 <andythenorth> and is the plural DFS?
14:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> don't make the cargo label IKEA :p
14:22:22 <planetmaker> 5 pieces = 1 furniture :P
14:26:02 <andythenorth> IKEA is a great label
14:26:29 <andythenorth> anything that starts "don't..." is hard to resist
14:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i relalized :p
14:29:21 <planetmaker> it definitely would be a cargo label which is remembered easily
14:31:12 <andythenorth> it is a scandi economy also
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15:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like space engineers isn't going to run under wine :/
15:11:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash … https://git.io/fhAWq
15:26:39 <Samu> omg these warnings are so pointless!
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15:33:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7290: Change: Disallow taking over AI companies in multiplayer https://git.io/fhNDM
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15:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no. they're not pointless. you just don't understand them
15:40:54 <Samu> I lost count how many times I've had to fix parenthesis
15:41:02 <Samu> and none of them changed anything
15:46:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save. https://git.io/fhHI1
15:48:46 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7190: Fix #7188: AI instance crash when reloading AI in a server, and an AI… https://git.io/fh9jW
15:51:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Change: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries https://git.io/fh9lr
16:03:44 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7104: Fix #5405: Aircraft could route to depots outside their range https://git.io/fhKsL
16:05:17 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7290: Change: Disallow taking over AI companies in multiplayer https://git.io/fhAlR
16:05:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7094: Fix #7088: Retrieve an appropriate name for a non-existant AI/GS when displaying a textfile https://git.io/fhrqY
16:08:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7078: Feature: Raise a corner of land automatically when building aqueducts https://git.io/fhgwk
16:10:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuqz
16:16:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhAlH
16:19:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7290: Change: Disallow taking over AI companies in multiplayer https://git.io/fhAld
16:23:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhAlh
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16:27:17 <Samu> what kind of names do you want
16:28:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhA8t
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16:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> probably a bunch of mistakes in that...
16:31:57 <peter1138> What is it even for?
16:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, but lots of times people told us "there's nothing going on because there's no news on the website"
16:32:43 <peter1138> So it's going to the website. I didn't realise it was still the first one, as it's... now March.
16:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, we should probably finalize it and publish it... anyone volunteering? :p
16:34:01 <peter1138> 7141 is likely to make 1.9 I think.
16:34:23 <peter1138> No, that's an error. It's not 7141.
16:35:45 <Samu> how would you name my variables?
16:35:49 <peter1138> It's 7147, Eddi|zuHause
16:36:16 <peter1138> Not like that Samu.
16:37:58 <Samu> the screenshot with the variable positions won't help?
16:38:01 <peter1138> Mmm, Oreo cookie...
16:38:33 <Samu> because I don't know of a better way to name them
16:39:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so who wanted to do that merged-PR-list? LordAro?
16:39:43 <Samu> tile_delta_middle_delta_side
16:39:58 <Samu> tile_2times_delta_middle_delta_side?
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17:00:23 <Beerbelott> Oh OK I got something about command-line switches... loading compressed files is not supported
17:00:33 <Beerbelott> like u can do through the GUI
17:00:50 <Beerbelott> Can't those behaviours be unified?
17:01:03 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhA4I
17:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: huh? any more details?
17:08:57 <Gabda> nielsm: it seems like a nice idea
17:09:29 <Gabda> this doesn't require much caching, and can calculated really fast
17:10:38 <nielsm> if a town builds roads that are nearer to another town, and you then build a road stop on those roads, which town will the road stop belong to?
17:10:44 <nielsm> answer: owner of the road
17:11:57 <Beerbelott> Eddi|zuHause: I downloaded ~/.openttd/content_download/scenario/Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4.tar
17:11:57 <Beerbelott> When trying to load that w/ CLI switch -g, it failed
17:12:10 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: didn't we decide a merged pr list wasn't worth it?
17:12:14 <Beerbelott> uncompressing the \.scn file in the tar archive did the trick
17:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i haven't been part of that conversation
17:12:42 <Beerbelott> Although, ingame, you can load the scenario from the GUI file explorer w/o uncompressing it
17:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: the game treats the tar like a directory and scans the files inside the tar, so you need some syntax to specify the file inside the tar
17:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno if that exists
17:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: was that always the case, or is that some change you did?
17:15:01 <Beerbelott> Tried openttd -g Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4.tar/Fallout_1_2_3_T_Game.scn to no avail
17:15:11 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause I did not touch that
17:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: there are probably subfolders inside the tar
17:17:13 <Beerbelott> Oh yeah right I'm dumb
17:18:26 <Beerbelott> Well Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4.tar/Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4/Fallout_1_2_3_T_Game.scn failed too, and this time the path, considering the tar archive as a dir, is correct
17:19:23 <Beerbelott> You need not to specify the tar
17:19:33 <Beerbelott> openttd -g Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4/Fallout_1_2_3_T_Game.scn works
17:19:49 <Beerbelott> but that means you know the contents of the tar archive...
17:20:48 <LordAro> one imagines that if you can use commandline flags, you can also run `tar tf foobar.tar`
17:20:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but a tar file could contain more than one scenario. while bananas downloads won't, the game could happily process manually created ones
17:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't just substitute a tar file with the files in it
17:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and expect the game to do any sane thing with it
17:23:22 <Beerbelott> I tried to use the name in the title, did not work
17:23:33 <Beerbelott> sad, since that's sth available from console
17:23:52 <Beerbelott> could help to have a similar interface on cli as on console
17:24:05 <Beerbelott> at least for file lists
17:28:53 <nielsm> Gabda: I just looked into what it would take to have "nearest town" in that concept show which station would be joined if one would (without using Ctrl distant join), and it looks like it would be very annoying to do :)
17:29:12 <nielsm> (so if you had any ideas in that direction, probably just leave them at the idea stage)
17:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that list collapses to about 8 pretty quickly
17:31:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <LordAro> one imagines that if you can use commandline flags, you can also run `tar tf foobar.tar` <-- you're forgetting https://xkcd.com/1168/
17:35:12 <peter1138> I guess k-d tree is always going to be slower than direct map storage.
17:35:34 <nielsm> peter1138 yeah, it's still a tree traversal
17:35:50 <nielsm> it mainly wins on memory usage and possibly being cheaper to rebuild
17:35:58 <Gabda> nielsm: until your kd-tree is not merged, I don't plan to build anything on top of that
17:36:28 <peter1138> 100ms is quite a lot :/
17:36:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe dismissed a review for pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command https://git.io/fhN7v
17:36:52 <nielsm> Gabda, this could be built on top of just CalcClosestTownFromTile and nothing else :)
17:37:38 <peter1138> Hmm, I should add town roads to my catchment visualisation?
17:37:56 <Gabda> but 100 ms is lot only if you have to repeat it often
17:38:48 <Samu> Santa Margarida de Terrabaixa South?
17:39:05 <Samu> if it's Terrabaixa, it doesn't need South
17:39:38 <Samu> baixa already implies it's towards south
17:39:48 <nielsm> there's about 2100 tiles visible on a 1920x1080 display at default zoom
17:40:22 <nielsm> Samu tell that to the Catalan town name generator
17:40:46 <Gabda> i corrected the number of tiles, as the multiplication sign disappeared from my post
17:40:51 <nielsm> (I'm using it because it generates very long names)
17:41:03 <Samu> ah, it's part of the town name
17:41:15 <Gabda> wheb max zoomed out,it is about 2x256x256
17:42:19 <peter1138> I should get myself a 5K screen to test on ;)
17:42:30 <nielsm> so looking up for an 81 tile area (9x9) would be essentially zero cost
17:43:24 <Gabda> yes, you could spam that
17:43:58 <Gabda> even if you have to calc the borders there
17:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: do we have a changelog anywhere that we could link?
17:45:36 <Alberth> usually next to the latest release
17:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but is that uptodate for the betas?
17:47:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhABZ
17:48:32 <Alberth> I'd expect up to date to the release :)
17:49:05 <nielsm> result of a sound canvas not properly reset after something else messed with some parameters
17:49:22 <Alberth> Unless someone is now tracking updates of the betas, I don't think it exists
17:49:25 <nielsm> especially past the 1 minute mark
17:51:14 <Gabda> so t is a bug or a feature? :)
17:51:44 <nielsm> working as designed :P
17:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the bridge thing isn't in the beta?
17:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> we might need to rephrase that a bit, any suggestions?
17:54:55 <nielsm> ponies? participate yourself?
17:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: always delegate the work to someone else :p
17:56:25 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: beta3 changelog is uptodate with beta3, yes :)
17:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i guess i failed at the delegation part today :p
17:59:52 * LordAro wonders if the nightly changelog being blank is known about
17:59:54 <peter1138> I should delegate my patch making to someone else.
18:00:01 <peter1138> Then I'd be able to approve them ;p
18:00:32 <peter1138> See you on the other side.
18:03:29 <Samu> who's an expert at giving variable names?
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18:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that is some strange comma placement...
18:05:46 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: the idea is that the bit in the middle could be removed and the sentence still works
18:06:02 <Samu> in the meantime I'm testing ship penalties
18:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it just feels very... unnatural
18:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> like you're adding a breathing pause to a place that doesn't really need one
18:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe my breathing pattern is off :p
18:07:56 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, commas probably aren't necessary at all
18:08:03 <LordAro> (parenthetical commas, if you want to google)
18:09:23 <Samu> peter1138, I think the 90 degrees penalty need to be smaller
18:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if any grammar guides agree with me, but i always think of "and if" as more like a single functional word, so i have some hesitations to put a comma between them
18:12:52 <Samu> unless that's the intention for 180 degrees
18:13:04 <Samu> avoids two 90 degrees altogether
18:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> with my comma placement the hierarchical structure of the sentence feels more like "A A A A, B B B B, C C C C" whereas yours is more like "A A A A B, C C C, B B B B"
18:17:07 <Samu> makes 1 90 degrees turn, then two 45 turns
18:17:51 <Samu> with 600 it completely avoids 90 degrees, takes the long path with 45 turns
18:23:34 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7289: Add: Configurable ship curve penalties (YAPF) https://git.io/fhARJ
18:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: that is some truely deep magic
18:29:35 <glx> it's clearly magic indeed
18:34:03 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7271: Cleanup: Ships can always make 90° turns (it's even realistic) https://git.io/fhARC
18:34:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed pull request #7271: Cleanup: Ships can always make 90° turns (it's even realistic) https://git.io/fhbmz
18:34:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7289: Add: Configurable ship curve penalties (YAPF) https://git.io/fhARW
18:35:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot opened pull request #24: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March https://git.io/fhAR4
18:35:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot commented on pull request #22: Scheduled monthly dependency update for February https://git.io/fhARB
18:35:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot closed pull request #22: Scheduled monthly dependency update for February https://git.io/fhSvB
18:36:16 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot opened pull request #19: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March https://git.io/fhAR0
18:36:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot commented on pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for February https://git.io/fhARE
18:36:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot closed pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for February https://git.io/fhSvu
18:45:44 <Samu> Gabda, nielsm are you doing anything about signs? AIs spam signs and they can slow down a lot when too many
18:46:40 <Gabda> nielsm's kdtree will solve that
18:47:07 <Samu> they create and remove really often
18:47:20 <Samu> the so called pathfind debug signs
18:48:01 <nielsm> well I'm not sure if it will be a performance hit to have them added/removed from the viewport sign index all the time
18:48:08 <nielsm> since that might trigger some bad rebuilding
18:51:51 <Samu> AIAI is a good sign spammer if you enable AI debug settings and set up all debug signs options
18:52:32 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you should fix up those DorpsGek_II dependencies :p
18:55:31 <Samu> just having the Sign list window open, i get slowdowns
18:56:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
18:56:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh requested changes for pull request #7261: Add: Road vehicle path cache. https://git.io/fhAR7
19:11:48 <Samu> where do i post sign slowdowns?
19:12:25 <nielsm> it's no more an issue than having a ton of stations is an issue
19:12:56 <nielsm> either makes drawing viewports slow because of viewport signs
19:13:06 <Samu> waiting for the ai to create 64000 signs
19:15:40 <Samu> hmmm loks like it wont reach 64000
19:18:02 <Samu> 4.2 seconds stall each time is added
19:18:13 <Samu> ok 61700 signs, ought to be enough
19:21:58 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7303: AI Sign List slowdowns the more signs there are https://git.io/fhA0k
19:23:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7303: AI Sign List slowdowns the more signs there are https://git.io/fhA0q
19:28:55 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: If this is about "and if all goes according to plan", LordAro's commas are right :P
19:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i didn't question that, but they still feel strange
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19:29:51 <FLHerne> The original ones are definitely wrong, but would be also-right if the second one was dropped
19:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure i'd be having the same discussion if it were a german text
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19:46:37 <Samu> found the problem! QSortT(this->data, this->items, compare, desc);
19:46:46 <Samu> this is where the stalls come from
19:51:09 <Samu> gee 70 seconds in debug mode
20:02:51 <peter1138> Samu, 17:09 < Samu> peter1138, I think the 90 degrees penalty need to be smaller
20:03:01 <peter1138> Samu, suggest a value :)
20:03:24 <Samu> 500 looked about right, i posted a screenshot in the topic
20:03:24 <peter1138> It probably wants to be smaller.
20:04:00 <peter1138> 57897 signs... yeah that'll be slow.
20:05:10 <Samu> FormatString is what's slowing donw
20:05:50 <peter1138> deque is a stack-type thing.
20:06:30 <peter1138> Hmm. Possibly for the colour changing stuff.
20:08:46 <Samu> GetString(buf, STR_SIGN_NAME, lastof(buf));
20:09:54 <Samu> doesn't look like it's QSortT afterall
20:09:55 <peter1138> What if you close the sign-list window?
20:10:04 <Samu> then it runs fine enough
20:10:16 <peter1138> SignNameSorter is called by QSort, so...
20:12:17 <nielsm> what if QSortT is replaced with std::sort
20:12:31 <nielsm> (it can't be replaced 1:1 but it should be possible)
20:14:08 <peter1138> Which AI created that many signs?
20:14:22 <peter1138> I think maybe we should just limit it :p
20:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> 5000 trucks, 5000 trains, 5000 signs?
20:16:42 <Samu> on the first train route
20:16:56 <peter1138> Are they debug signs?
20:18:44 <peter1138> Placing signs is going to slow down the pathfinding massively.
20:18:52 <nielsm> how about if the number of signs that would be on the list is larger than (example) 5k then just don't sort it and don't offer the option to sort it
20:19:42 <peter1138> nielsm, I'm thinking something like I did for station catchment...
20:19:54 <peter1138> nielsm, keep the sorted list around and just do a sorted insert.
20:20:37 <nielsm> do we need to add global signal event handlers? "OnNewSignCreated" etc
20:20:56 <peter1138> No what have invalidate window data for that.
20:21:22 <nielsm> how will you know which sign was new then, to insert it in the gui's sorted list?
20:21:23 <peter1138> Also that window should not bother doing anything if it's rolled up.
20:21:40 <peter1138> invalidate window data takes parameters :)
20:22:16 <peter1138> You invalidate a specific class/type of window with whatever user data you want.
20:22:35 <peter1138> I think it only takes an integer, but only because nobody ever needed to extend it.
20:22:41 <peter1138> But that's enough for a sign id
20:25:14 <Samu> sorted insert, interesting
20:25:26 <Samu> what about the opposite?
20:25:53 <nielsm> if the list is sorted then you can do a binary search in it to find the item index to remove
20:26:54 <nielsm> peter1138: have you fixed the circling road vehicles yet? :)
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20:30:36 <nielsm> see the review I left on your rv path caching
20:31:26 <peter1138> However I just put some sausages in the oven, and I'm now nursing a beer.
20:32:18 <nielsm> I should get myself some fluids too
20:34:09 <peter1138> That sign window does a sort periodically. I guess that's probably not necessary.
20:36:12 <Samu> gonna try release build instead, brb
20:38:43 <peter1138> Damn it, FFWD is too fast :-)
20:40:39 <Samu> it continues to be FormatString and Deque stuff
20:40:52 <peter1138> That's not the real problem.
20:41:16 <nielsm> FormatString is because it's.... preparing text for being displayed
20:41:19 <peter1138> They are using CPU time purely because they are being called a lot during the sort operation.
20:41:37 <peter1138> Not display, just sorting :-)
20:41:46 <peter1138> Display is perfectly fine.
20:42:00 <peter1138> Maybe if you have a big enough screen to see 50,000k signs in the list at once...
20:42:08 <peter1138> Even then, that's probably okay.
20:42:42 <peter1138> I wonder if it's possible to just sort on the sign text and ignore the format string.
20:42:55 <peter1138> I mean, signs don't have a default value do they?
20:43:24 <nielsm> strings can only have user entered text
20:43:45 <nielsm> and there is no localisation on them
20:44:20 <peter1138> That should be a lot faster.
20:44:39 <peter1138> I'll try it quickly :-)
20:45:14 <nielsm> but why is it using a deque?
20:45:31 <Samu> it's inside FormatString
20:45:44 <nielsm> oh the deque is used by formatting?
20:45:50 <peter1138> nielsm, colour changes are stack-based.
20:45:58 <peter1138> It's a very small stack.
20:46:04 <peter1138> But because it's called so often...
20:46:13 <nielsm> but it's a stack not a queue
20:46:23 <nielsm> so a vector would better
20:46:33 <peter1138> std::stack is a stack
20:46:51 <nielsm> that's an adapter for something else isn't it...
20:47:12 <peter1138> std::stack<const char *> str_stack;
20:47:28 <peter1138> std::stack is implemented with a std::deque, I think.
20:47:31 <nielsm> but the main use case for std::deque should be if you need to add/remove elements from the front of the collection
20:48:05 <nielsm> hence deque sounds really wrong
20:48:10 <peter1138> Sorry, what are you getting at?
20:48:36 <nielsm> use use std::vector::push_back(), std::vector::back() and std::vector::pop_back()
20:48:45 <peter1138> ^ it uses std::deque internally.
20:48:59 <nielsm> I don't understand why STL does that then
20:49:40 <nielsm> when going down to micro-optimisations, vector is usually preferable to deque
20:50:38 <peter1138> You can change std::stack to use a std::vector
20:50:41 <nielsm> maybe try std::stack<T, std::vector<T>>
20:51:13 <peter1138> Annoying, I can't get AIAI to pathfind :p
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20:52:37 <peter1138> Ah, it doesn't use trains unless there's industries...
20:54:00 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd
20:54:42 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder how colour codes will affect it.
20:54:58 <peter1138> Can there even be sigh codes in a sign?
20:55:57 <peter1138> Okay, I need to turn off lto :-)
20:57:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7304: Codechange: Need need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with https://git.io/fhAE9
20:57:57 <peter1138> Erm, that should be NO need. ..
20:58:42 <peter1138> Of course, Samu is probably engrossed in trying to find out why FormatString is so slow...
20:58:59 <peter1138> These sausages smell nice.
21:02:56 <nielsm> okay so there _is_ a default sign name
21:02:59 <nielsm> which is STR_DEFAULT_SIGN_NAME
21:03:08 <nielsm> and it will be used if sign->name is NULL
21:03:55 <nielsm> it's probably worth ignoring that case
21:05:53 <nielsm> or perhaps worth handling it specially...
21:06:54 <peter1138> FormatString will be copying characters and validating stuff everywhere.
21:07:09 <nielsm> it formats a string using the format string that just copies a raw string
21:07:27 <nielsm> so those three lines are an extremely expensive way of doing strdup
21:07:57 <peter1138> Not with those functions though.
21:08:18 <peter1138> There's a specific custom one for copying strings that uses lastof rather than lengthof.
21:09:54 <peter1138> Ok, it's slowing down now
21:10:25 <peter1138> Who the heck did that...
21:10:56 <peter1138> Of course, samu running it in a debug compile wouldn't help.
21:11:08 <peter1138> I'm seeing ~20ms with 21k signs.
21:11:24 <nielsm> I don't understand what that has to do with needing everything to go through FormatString
21:11:43 <nielsm> oh... resolving ScriptText objects?
21:11:52 <nielsm> it can be weird objects like that?
21:16:24 <peter1138> Hmm, a sorted insert for strings could keep a cache of where to start for specific characters.
21:17:27 <peter1138> Oops, the AI crashed :-)
21:22:13 <nielsm> (it's only been 7 years and change!)
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21:35:51 <peter1138> Yeah, mega-stalls with the sign list open without the 'fix'
21:36:38 <peter1138> If there are control codes in the string, they will still be there when it is formatted, right?
21:36:48 <peter1138> Otherwise they'd have no effect, heh.
21:37:03 <peter1138> I guess we should handle the null case.
21:40:48 <nielsm> ok, looking further through this I really don't see a way e.g. a sign name could become a non-real char pointer
21:41:24 <nielsm> ScriptSign::SetName specifically has whatever Text object it receives decoded into a plaing C string
21:54:19 <LordAro> nielsm: looks like it might be a find & replace thing
22:11:23 <TrueBrain> nielsm: poeh, daring question there :D
22:13:32 <TrueBrain> I think it was to avoid styles leaking through, but ...... not really sure :P
22:15:36 <TrueBrain> not even sure why it is in that commit, tbh
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22:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so, did we release the blog post yet?
22:19:42 <LordAro> 2.5 hours left until the file needs to be renamed :p
22:20:15 <nielsm> I should maybe get derail valley?
22:22:29 <peter1138> Hmm, strange, the pathfinder has a trackdir for a tile which has no junction on it.
22:22:54 <TrueBrain> so merge it, and release a new version of the website (after you seen the merge land on staging and it looked fine, ofc)
22:23:06 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I got the logs around that time, let me read what we wrote about that patch ..
22:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> don't forget to add a new temp file (that we linked to at the bottom)
22:23:47 <TrueBrain> after the merge, yes
22:27:44 <peter1138> Got a test GRF for #7147?
22:27:47 <TrueBrain> nielsm: even after reading the conversations around that time, nobody asked anything about that part :P It was part of a 40-patch commit
22:28:15 <TrueBrain> seems I had issues with a few things: UTF-8 (seems unrelated), AI that did {} in strings (pissing off the formatter), and "getting it to work"
22:28:23 <TrueBrain> so yeah, no clue :D I tried!
22:28:27 <peter1138> It doesn't look obivously wrong, and it's not "wrong" just pointless, I think :-)
22:29:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with https://git.io/fhAzK
22:29:28 <LordAro> i'm happy with it now
22:30:17 <TrueBrain> my personal IRC logs only date back to sept 2012 .. so I don't know if there were any PMs about this :P
22:34:53 <peter1138> Oh dear, this camembert has pink patches... might be time to throw it...
22:37:47 <TrueBrain> nielsm: the more I think about it, the more I think it was to avoid control codes to leak through; possibly not for all entries, but things like President Name, etc. But I might be completely off here :) For sure it is a weird commit, but given it was in a chain of 40, I can imagine some shortcuts were taken :D
22:37:53 <TrueBrain> owh well, enough cycles spend on this :D
22:38:47 <nielsm> to me it looks almost opposite, like it would allow user-entered strings to contain insert codes
22:39:31 <TrueBrain> nielsm: the RAW_STRING thingy should prevent that, not? Owh well, no clue :P
22:39:35 <TrueBrain> talking shit, properly
22:39:49 <peter1138> Does RAW_STRING strip stuff, or just copy?
22:39:59 <peter1138> Okay, this brie is looking better. It's just white.
22:40:13 <TrueBrain> LordAro: even if I remove the screenshot and give the space to the post, it looks VERY ugly
22:40:32 <TrueBrain> but better, at least
22:40:44 <TrueBrain> well, it would look like this:
22:40:49 <TrueBrain> possibly we just need a <more> button
22:41:36 <LordAro> site redesign, anyone? :D
22:42:08 <TrueBrain> for now, what we can do, is to add a "read more" button, where we only have the first alinea on the front page?
22:42:20 <LordAro> that'll help, i think
22:42:35 <peter1138> Uhm... is it okay to stuff a trackdir and a tile into a 32bit int?
22:43:14 <peter1138> Until someone wants 8192x8192 maps ;(
22:43:37 <LordAro> peter1138: for what purpose? :p
22:43:45 <peter1138> road vehicle path cache.
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22:44:22 <peter1138> Needed to detect if the path is invalid.
22:44:36 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I could store segment length.
22:44:42 <LordAro> i feel bitstuffing shouldn't be done unless there's a demonstrateable performance increase
22:44:59 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds over the top to me
22:45:15 <peter1138> LordAro, it's saveloaded, and can only be a single value unless I rewrite SLDEQUE.
22:45:41 <LordAro> oh, we're talking saveload here, rather than "at runtime" ?
22:46:00 <peter1138> It's a value that is saved.
22:46:17 <peter1138> The saveload code doesn't handle a struct at this point.
22:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the runtime layout should be dictated by saveload
22:46:45 <LordAro> i think this is a separate question, but why are the caches saveloaded? why aren't they just regenerated on load?
22:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd rather update the saveload code
22:47:09 <peter1138> LordAro, server would need to invalidate its caches when it saves, which is a bit weird.
22:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: map might have changed?
22:47:45 <LordAro> doesn't have to invalidate them? just doesn't save them in the first place
22:48:08 <LordAro> why would it need to invalidate its caches?
22:48:09 <peter1138> It has a cache, if they're not saved, it has to invalidate its local copy.
22:48:13 <glx> TrueBrain: is it ok to add some debugging messages in cmake to see the detected includes and libraries in the CI ?
22:48:16 <peter1138> It's a pathfinder result.
22:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: after loading on the client, the client must recreate the exact same cache state as the server.
22:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: since the situation is different now, that cannot be guaranteed
22:49:44 <peter1138> It's more important for RVs than ships, as well.
22:49:52 <peter1138> Towns are adding/removing road pieces all the time.
22:49:56 <TrueBrain> glx: of course; no need to ask these things :)
22:50:35 <glx> oh and I opened some PRs on your branch ;)
22:52:04 <peter1138> I could make RoadVehPathCache be a struct containing two std::deques.
22:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> really, i'd rather work on extending the saveload
22:52:59 <TrueBrain> owh, we didn't mention CMake in dev post
22:53:13 <LordAro> TrueBrain: well, it's still on staging... :p
22:53:41 <TrueBrain> meh, for next month
22:53:46 <TrueBrain> possibly we can even ask people to test it by then
22:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a better idea :p
22:53:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #66: Add: "read more" link for large posts on the frontpage https://git.io/fhAgI
22:54:18 <TrueBrain> and someone needs to enable: remove whitespace on save
22:54:24 <TrueBrain> wasting bytes like that
22:55:15 <LordAro> oh nice, it's built into jekyll
22:55:23 <LordAro> i was wondering where the functionality was :p
22:55:45 <TrueBrain> Jekyll has a lot of stuff .. just not everything is very easy to find :)
22:55:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #66: Add: "read more" link for large posts on the frontpage https://git.io/fhAgq
22:59:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #66: Add: "read more" link for large posts on the frontpage https://git.io/fhAgI
22:59:34 <peter1138> Hmm, need to make a new test save now :)
22:59:40 <TrueBrain> glx: but I cannot believe if that commit really works :P
22:59:54 <LordAro> peter1138: we definitely need to collect these test saves together
23:00:43 <TrueBrain> glx: ah, it indeed doesn't work :P Bad glx, not testing before pushing :D
23:01:15 <TrueBrain> glx: one thing that might be nice to know: it is often better to remove your build directory with cmake; because of its cache, otherwise you might not spot amistake you made, because your cache fixes it :)
23:01:21 <TrueBrain> just as a "good to know" :)
23:02:22 <peter1138> LordAro, it's only because I changed the saveload now. Two deques so that I don't have to bitstuff.
23:02:54 <peter1138> I'll probably revert it once I figure out the correct incantation of yapf.
23:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i see that "read more" link in action?
23:02:58 <LordAro> it was more of a general comment
23:03:06 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: wait until staging updates
23:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause> does it take this long?
23:03:45 <LordAro> "Platform/MINGW64_NT-10.0 to use this system, please send your config file to cmake@www.cmake.org so it can be added to cmake"
23:03:48 <LordAro> well that's disappointing
23:03:51 <TrueBrain> but yeah, it just hit staging
23:04:17 <LordAro> literally just installed it :p
23:04:23 <TrueBrain> okay, it is a lot better now (frontpage)
23:04:32 <TrueBrain> installing doesn't mean you cannot update it
23:04:38 <TrueBrain> you might have installed a VERY old version :P
23:05:04 <TrueBrain> everyone okay with staging like this?
23:06:03 <LordAro> TrueBrain: nope, still on 3.13
23:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably fine, the first paragraph could have been a bit more elaborate with that in mind, but... it's good enough i guess
23:07:00 <LordAro> ah i see, i've installed the wrong version
23:07:04 <TrueBrain> will be on production in a jiffy
23:07:18 <TrueBrain> possibly good to post this on twitter and tt-forums too
23:08:23 <TrueBrain> that's what she said
23:08:29 <Samu> gonna wait for 60k signs
23:09:15 <Samu> already sensing the stalls at 9k signs, 60 ms
23:12:15 <peter1138> Yes, it's still slow, but it's much faster.
23:13:03 <TrueBrain> someone else can make a tt-forums post :)
23:13:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
23:14:15 <Samu> it's becoming unbearable at 37k signs
23:15:48 <peter1138> Yeah so the issue is sorting it is slow, just because sorting is slow.
23:15:58 <glx> LordAro: it works here I just use 'cmake -G"MSYS Makefiles" ..' from the mingw terminal
23:16:28 <Samu> isn't there insert sort?
23:16:37 <nielsm> Samu is that a debug or a release build? because I imagine a debug build can make a recursive algorithm like quicksort quite bad
23:16:41 <LordAro> glx: yeah, i just had to install the mingw version, rather than the msys version
23:16:53 <Samu> release build, but still attached to visual studio
23:16:54 <LordAro> and then make a small modification as i don't have timidity installed
23:16:59 <peter1138> Samu, non-rect-catchment has that.
23:17:34 <glx> LordAro: the timidity error is fixed now (was a mistake in my previous commit)
23:17:42 <peter1138> But it is probably not appropriate.
23:17:59 <peter1138> That's a std::set, which may well be slower.
23:18:12 <Samu> didn't make a difference
23:18:18 <peter1138> Doesn't matter there, no town has 37k stations near it :p
23:18:36 <peter1138> Someone will probably prove me wrong there.
23:19:19 <LordAro> glx: version string being broken is known, right?
23:19:20 <Samu> oh snap, pathfinder found a way
23:19:32 <TrueBrain> LordAro: "broken", how lovely verbose :)
23:19:42 <glx> because locally it works for me
23:19:44 <Samu> oh, still pathfinding, without deleting previous signs
23:19:50 <TrueBrain> what if more broke than he knows should be broken? :P
23:19:55 <LordAro> -- Version string: 20190301--gaf88160bf9
23:20:07 <TrueBrain> so on the CI there is no branch; that is known?
23:20:14 <LordAro> yeah, but this is locally
23:20:19 <TrueBrain> so you are a detached head
23:20:42 <TrueBrain> do you really want us to answer that? :D
23:20:51 <glx> because version stuff is a total conversion of findversion.sh based on your work
23:21:09 <glx> most of it is just a direct copy paste ;)
23:23:18 <LordAro> still broken because of SDL, but i can probably manage to fix that myself
23:24:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7303: AI Sign List slowdowns the more signs there are https://git.io/fhAgX
23:24:09 <TrueBrain> GwydToday at 11:20 PM
23:24:09 <TrueBrain> The new NewGRF stuff sounds interesting
23:24:09 <TrueBrain> This section in particular: "This should allow for graphical changes like whether or not pantographs are raised. Ideally, you would not only be able to query the speed limit of the railtype, but a collection of all speed limits currently affecting the train (like bridges, curves, station approach, etc.) and whether the train has reached any of thes
23:24:09 <TrueBrain> e. If you have ideas how to use this in a set, please tell us."
23:24:10 <TrueBrain> So theoretically we could change things about the train based on its speed relative to the speed limit?
23:24:10 <TrueBrain> Like graphics, visual effects etc?
23:25:04 <TrueBrain> Also could you ask if it could query the speed limit imposed by the timetable?
23:25:28 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I expect answers! :P
23:25:34 <peter1138> Timetables have speed limits?
23:25:36 <DorpsGek> LordAro: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 hour and 14 seconds ago: <andythenorth> pipemania? o_O
23:27:19 <TrueBrain> that is not a helpful answer andythenorth :(
23:27:37 <andythenorth> [I have nothing right now]
23:27:41 <Samu> about 612 ms stalls at 62,600 signs
23:27:44 * andythenorth reading dev post
23:27:48 <Samu> nearly reaching the limit
23:29:05 <Samu> no more stalls, AIAI is mad about not being able to place signs
23:30:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
23:31:33 <andythenorth> I don't see any MMO tank games mentioned there
23:31:43 <andythenorth> we should change that
23:31:52 <TrueBrain> but any clue about Gwyd's question ?
23:32:51 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with https://git.io/fhAgN
23:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's still next month :p
23:34:30 <andythenorth> and a "drive the train" mode
23:34:55 <TrueBrain> I feel like andythenorth is ignoring me :P
23:35:03 <andythenorth> no I just don't know the answer :)
23:35:14 <andythenorth> and I have been a good person for 5 days straight for $reasons
23:35:19 <andythenorth> I am out of good :P
23:35:31 <TrueBrain> also on your dayjob?
23:35:35 <andythenorth> yeah family stuff and work
23:35:49 <TrueBrain> I have not been a good boy at work :P
23:35:56 <TrueBrain> I always fail the second minute I am in the office
23:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you last that long? :p
23:36:40 <TrueBrain> yeah, the first minute I am picking up a coca cola from the fridge
23:36:43 <TrueBrain> so .. there is that
23:36:48 <andythenorth> ok so changing visual stuff, I don't know how often the vars are updated
23:37:01 <andythenorth> and timetables, I don't understand at all, they're just broken afaik
23:37:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how often are railtype vars updated? o_O
23:37:36 <andythenorth> when tracktype changes?
23:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: at least every time the railtype changes
23:38:16 <andythenorth> railtypes have railtypes, but vehicles have tracktypes
23:38:21 <andythenorth> because $reasons
23:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like the same word to me
23:38:35 <andythenorth> that doesn't catch me out every single time ever
23:38:54 <TrueBrain> GwydToday at 11:35 PM
23:38:54 <TrueBrain> I know how it could be used
23:38:54 <TrueBrain> Mainly just the rail speed limit and not speed limits specifically for bridges curves etc
23:38:54 <TrueBrain> In the UK freight trains or trains worked by locomotives (as opposed to multiple units) have lower speed limits in some instances
23:38:54 <TrueBrain> So it could just say like
23:38:56 <TrueBrain> Go a bit less than the speed limit
23:38:58 <TrueBrain> now I am done playing proxy
23:39:09 <andythenorth> yeah, where is Gwyd?
23:39:22 <TrueBrain> so now you have to andythenorth!
23:39:30 <peter1138> Just tell them to use IRC.
23:39:32 <andythenorth> do we all do push-to-talk?
23:39:42 <TrueBrain> push-to-talk-to-type
23:42:21 <andythenorth> issues 77, PRs 58
23:42:30 <andythenorth> the crossover gets closer
23:43:05 <TrueBrain> he is going to post on the forums
23:43:13 <TrueBrain> I am not your guys monkey :P
23:44:42 <TrueBrain> proxies the message andythenorth :)
23:45:48 <TrueBrain> peter1138: you are a silly goose :)
23:46:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhA2U
23:46:46 <peter1138> So by "our discord" you meant the "reddit discord"
23:47:02 <TrueBrain> I never said "our" or "reddit"
23:47:13 <TrueBrain> but pm was pretty specific about it being the /r/openttd Discord
23:47:16 <glx> debug message and make verbose help a lot to find what's wrong
23:47:17 <LordAro> TrueBrain: any ideas why it was this way?
23:47:24 <peter1138> I can't be dealing with that :p
23:48:08 <TrueBrain> glx: pro-tip, mark them as TODO with a comment next time :) Means we won't forget removing them ;)
23:48:15 <TrueBrain> and if they help, leave them in for now :)
23:48:21 <glx> sdl is dynamically loaded on windows
23:48:43 <glx> only headers are used, but not linked
23:48:54 <TrueBrain> but in more generic terms: don't use SDL on Windows
23:49:00 <TrueBrain> not sure why we support it, tbh
23:49:07 <peter1138> If I'm modifying YAPF code, should I stick to YAPF coding-style? :p
23:49:24 <LordAro> mm, can't remember why i installed it
23:49:27 <peter1138> SDL on Windows does work.
23:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: rewrite it with STL :p
23:49:32 <LordAro> to check tick rate, i think
23:50:00 <peter1138> So I fixed the RV path cache, but now it has two std::deques :(
23:50:06 <peter1138> One for trackdir, and one for tile.
23:50:13 <TrueBrain> LordAro: possibly we should just remove that line in our codebase
23:50:35 <LordAro> TrueBrain: which line?
23:51:01 <TrueBrain> no, it is more complicated
23:51:19 <LordAro> that whole block is only used on windows SDL
23:51:45 <TrueBrain> why do we special case SDL on Windows?
23:51:50 <TrueBrain> why not just do what we do with everything?
23:54:03 <TrueBrain> I am sure there are historical reasons
23:54:08 <TrueBrain> but possibly good to throw those overboard
23:54:26 <TrueBrain> so feel free to add to my branch a change that 'fixed' sdl.h LordAro :)
23:54:34 <LordAro> it's been that way as far back as i can be bothered to trace
23:54:45 <TrueBrain> so lets brake that status quo :)
23:54:55 <TrueBrain> I removed a lot of special casing
23:54:59 <TrueBrain> most of them are undocumented
23:55:11 <TrueBrain> so ... I removed them .. and if we add them again, we add them with comments etc
23:55:42 <TrueBrain> I remember in the old days we shipped SDL.dll next to openttd.exe
23:55:45 <TrueBrain> but it was annoying as fuck
23:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> do we still have code to support morphos? :p
23:56:40 <TrueBrain> a while back I removed a few OSes
23:56:47 <TrueBrain> but it was claimed someone was still maintaining MorphOS
23:57:06 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
23:57:45 <TrueBrain> GwydToday at 11:54 PM
23:57:45 <TrueBrain> Ok walls of text have been put up
23:57:45 <TrueBrain> Also @TrueBrain in that pull request people talk about 3rd rail sparks
23:57:50 <TrueBrain> Also that discussion was a useful read
23:58:07 <andythenorth> highly trained copy-paste artist
23:59:55 <peter1138> Aw crap, I changed the saveload format again...
continue to next day ⏵
