IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-02-27
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00:07:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7100: Fix #6574: Remove go to hangar orders when rebuilding airport https://git.io/fhoxm
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00:24:15 <Samu> i dont understand includes
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00:37:50 <andythenorth> ammonium chloride + borates
00:38:57 <Samu> 'IsBridge': identifier not found
00:40:47 <Samu> i dont understand includes, sometimes they just refuse to work
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00:44:07 <Beerbelott> Those command-line switches are bonkers
00:45:15 <LordAro> Samu: includes (part of the "C preprocessor", which you should google) literally just include the contents of that file
00:45:28 <Beerbelott> -e -g seems to set a mode ending up with _switch_mode=FT_SCENARIO. However the game consistently tries to load the fille supplied w/ -g as a savegame
00:46:07 <LordAro> i see no reason why IsBridge shouldn't work, as long as you've got bridge_map.h #included somewhere in the cpp file (or in your tree of includes from that cpp file - it's applied recursively)
00:51:38 <Samu> assert(IsTileType(t, MP_HOUSE) || (IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD) && !IsRoadDepot(t)) || (IsTileType(t, MP_TUNNELBRIDGE) && IsBridge(t) && GetTunnelBridgeTransportType(t) == TRANSPORT_ROAD));
00:51:41 <glx> -e -g load the save/scenario in the scenario editor
00:52:46 <Samu> 'GetTunnelBridgeTransportType': identifier not found
00:54:32 <LordAro> Samu: right, so where is GetTunnelBridgeTransportType defined?
00:55:34 <LordAro> and where are you trying to use it?
00:55:44 <Samu> now the includes work, it wasn't working 20 minutes ago
00:55:55 <Samu> but k, good that it works
00:56:18 <LordAro> so what was that message from 4 minutes ago about?
00:57:56 <Samu> when I had town.h included i was getting issues
00:58:41 <Samu> now i dont use INVALID_TOWN, i just set it to 0
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01:11:47 <LordAro> not a hugely reassuring url, tbh
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01:31:10 <Samu> need savegame conversion maybe
01:31:39 <Samu> not maybe, it really needs
01:32:22 <Samu> GUI gave me the most trouble
01:34:25 <Samu> let me check now, how it builds the 4k map
01:41:49 <Samu> all town bridges have their town index as owners
01:42:17 <Beerbelott> 'glx: -e -g load the save/scenario in the scenario editor' -> not for me
01:42:27 <Beerbelott> scenario is rejected as invalid savegame
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01:43:24 <glx> hmm I tried here but it was fake scenario, I should test with a real one
01:43:25 <Beerbelott> _switch_mod is correctly set to proper mode, though, haven't tracked down the whole chain rthough
01:43:43 <Beerbelott> yup just get one from online content
01:44:08 <Supercheese> Oh hey looks like Factorio is catching up with BaNaNaS
01:44:11 <Supercheese> "Support for mod synchronisation when joining multiplayer game. Works as long as the used mods are on the mod portal."
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01:52:03 <drac_boy> have fun getting to the end of this samu .. I'm going sleep soon
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02:06:58 <Samu> savegame conversion gonna need halp!
02:07:43 <Samu> all bridges from old saves have town index 0 atm
02:08:04 <Samu> need to do some magic to estimate their "real" owners
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03:09:44 <Samu> interesting, all roads have town index stored into them
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03:27:06 <Samu> should towns become owners of bridges of owner none?
03:27:16 <Samu> when they expand through them?
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04:15:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
04:16:57 <Samu> /* If we are in the SE, and this bridge-piece has no town owner yet, it just found an
04:16:57 <Samu> * owner :) (happy happy happy bridge now) */
04:17:20 <Samu> should tunnels warrant the same treatment?
04:19:10 <Samu> it would be interesting if towns could build tunnels
04:32:45 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhN83
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05:28:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Don't remove bridges when generating towns with 0 population https://git.io/fhbpT
07:05:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #6980: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType https://git.io/fpEtn
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08:38:19 <andythenorth> coal tar -> carbon black -> tyre plant?
08:41:52 * andythenorth ever moe detailed cargos :P
08:45:26 <andythenorth> I could split up steel
08:45:33 <andythenorth> train set authors are gonna hate me
08:50:14 <andythenorth> "Oil country tubular goods" is a nice cargo
09:01:49 <andythenorth> I could split up scrap metal too
09:06:02 <andythenorth> so peter1138 when are we doing pipeline transport type?
09:06:23 <andythenorth> it was ruled out before "because it's uninteresting"
09:06:34 <andythenorth> but all those people are now playing F! so eh
09:06:43 <andythenorth> turns it they like it more than OpenTTD :P
09:17:13 <andythenorth> dunno how to do a transport type with no vehicles
09:17:20 <andythenorth> I worked it out once, but forgot
09:18:05 <andythenorth> pipes, conveyors, ski-lifts
09:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> it was ruled out before "because it's uninteresting" <-- who ever said that?
09:56:47 <andythenorth> maybe it was Eddi? o_O
10:13:15 <andythenorth> why does the map jump when I windowshade minimap?
10:14:30 <andythenorth> oh it's the scrollwheel crap
10:16:04 <peter1138> andythenorth, if it's a bug, report it.
10:16:13 <andythenorth> no it's the intended behaviour
10:16:26 <andythenorth> map moves if I scroll
10:16:32 <andythenorth> and I was scrolling accidentally
10:18:57 <peter1138> Even when you point it out to them ;p
10:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is unique to reddit :p
10:19:35 <andythenorth> reddit constantly surprises me
10:19:42 <andythenorth> how nice it all is
10:20:03 <andythenorth> when I first encountered reddit, it was pretty similar to encyclopedia dramatica
10:20:33 <andythenorth> maybe I just found the 4chan, troll-fascist and genuine fascist parts :P
10:20:40 <peter1138> Some sections are terrible.
10:21:04 <andythenorth> sections / people /s
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10:28:20 <andythenorth> so Coke Oven Byproduct Gas doesn't travel in trains
10:28:38 <andythenorth> I could make a PIPE grf, they do work, hax on trains
10:28:40 <peter1138> New transport types, eh?
10:29:41 <peter1138> pipelines, powerlines, something lines?
10:32:52 <andythenorth> continous transport
10:37:51 <andythenorth> we have 64 cargos now
10:37:57 <andythenorth> we could transport logic cargos
10:38:03 <andythenorth> and have logic industries
10:38:10 <andythenorth> 16 in / 16 out, 256 registers
10:38:58 <andythenorth> we can now model solid state circuits?
10:39:25 <andythenorth> or even just circuits
10:39:28 <andythenorth> valve industry :P
10:40:00 <andythenorth> magic smoke cargo
10:43:19 <peter1138> Pipelines with pumping stations / boosters / repeaters ...
10:43:24 <peter1138> Meh, no, too much like simcity.
10:45:09 <andythenorth> well TTD is too much like Railroad Tycoon
10:45:14 <andythenorth> but eh, does it matter? :P
10:45:31 <peter1138> Erm, that's the same genre :p
10:45:49 <andythenorth> but what would be interesting to implement?
10:46:35 <peter1138> 2014-03-15 19:44 Sergii Pylypenko │ │ o │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ Android patches
10:47:05 <andythenorth> tiles that can just move cargo from one of the 4 edges to another edge?
10:47:37 * andythenorth coded that in Flash once, with trains
10:47:38 <peter1138> Basically, maybe with trackdirs :p
10:47:51 <andythenorth> it was a promo game for the release of Railroad Tycoon 3 :P
10:47:57 <andythenorth> lifetime dream achieved
10:48:16 <peter1138> Infrastructure sharing/subsidiaries.
10:48:30 <peter1138> That was most fun, back in the day.
10:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i would probably do pumping stations which spawn vehicles and at the other end of the pipeline they get destroyed automatically
10:49:31 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that strikes me as a "reuse rail tracks" type implementation.
10:50:25 <andythenorth> let's do something new and game-breaking
10:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the opposite of ships. with ships you're not building infrastructure but managing the vehicles, with pipes you're not building the vehicles but managing the infrastructure
10:50:33 <andythenorth> and find all the problems
10:50:56 <peter1138> NRT doesn't break the game enough :/
10:51:02 <andythenorth> NRT is same old same old
10:51:07 <peter1138> Ships are obviously vehicles though.
10:51:09 <andythenorth> it's just 'moar'
10:51:18 <andythenorth> pipes, ski-lifts
10:51:26 <peter1138> Unless you're talking internal mail system pipelines...
10:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> or transport tubes like in futurama
10:52:53 <peter1138> andythenorth, you can do that with road types :p
10:53:42 <andythenorth> the cableways have a fixed throughput per length of route
10:54:02 <andythenorth> well...there are ones where the skips attach/detach from the haul cable
10:54:08 <andythenorth> but they're boring, that's just NRT
10:56:05 <andythenorth> I'm thinking of tiles than move n cargo per tick
10:56:28 <andythenorth> from x inputs to y outputs
10:57:10 <andythenorth> each outputs gets "sum(inputs) / num outputs"
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10:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think the point of pipes would be that you have this transport type that is "brainless vehicles" that can't make any pathfinding choices, and thus you can only have lingle point to point lines
10:57:30 <andythenorth> well with junctions that sum / divide
10:57:33 <andythenorth> interesting things happen
10:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> but at the same time you don't have to limit the capacity of the line with signals and stuff
10:57:53 <andythenorth> it's possible to route 75% to A and 25% to B using two splitters
10:58:09 <andythenorth> and recombining two streams to A
10:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you want to have "junctions" you need to make intermediate pumping stations
10:58:51 <andythenorth> nah, just check the trackbits
10:58:55 <andythenorth> which ones are connected
10:59:08 <andythenorth> not sure how flow direction would be controlled
10:59:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> that'll destroy cargodist
10:59:25 <andythenorth> cargodist is broken for gameplay anyway
10:59:49 <andythenorth> it only solves pax transfers
11:00:05 <andythenorth> and the unintended consequences on pax overload are bad
11:00:42 <andythenorth> also, assuming you're correct, can't we just infer an intermediate pumping station?
11:00:52 <andythenorth> it has more than 1 trackbit out, so it's a station
11:01:03 <andythenorth> so put it in the cdist graph
11:01:05 <planetmaker> pipes flow direction is controlled by pumps, I'd say. And throughput is a certain max. That's it
11:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, just make the player put down a "station"... solves it nicely
11:01:32 <andythenorth> that's incredibly boring
11:01:42 <andythenorth> and will cause cargo acceptance and distribution
11:01:54 <andythenorth> unless you mean a "station"
11:02:19 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
11:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you need two kinds of station.
11:02:29 <andythenorth> I am struggling to imagine any of this working well with cdist
11:02:45 <andythenorth> cdist is already absolutely useless for distributing cargo
11:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause> one accept/deliver and one routing station
11:03:42 <peter1138> electricity lines, eh?
11:04:04 <peter1138> power infrastructure for your electrified railway...
11:04:13 <peter1138> Not quite cargo type :p
11:04:15 <planetmaker> routing station = waypoint
11:04:36 <peter1138> Hmm realistic power consumption ;)
11:04:51 <planetmaker> so wie factorio-ize the game? :P
11:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: sort of, but opposing to waypoints it would be a point where cargo is loaded/unloaded
11:05:32 <andythenorth> my opposition to routing via stations is that it implies a whole new transport type, whilst doing nothing new
11:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause> don't bring that up
11:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> hacks like that don't help anything
11:06:09 <andythenorth> each segment in that screenshot moves N units per tick
11:06:13 <andythenorth> and routing is via stations
11:06:39 <andythenorth> it's a PITA to build them
11:06:56 <andythenorth> it's a nice proof of concept, "We don't need no stinking pipes"
11:07:19 <andythenorth> but it's not very compelling
11:07:47 <andythenorth> hmm, wonder what it would be like without depots? o_O
11:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't matter, i pretend that doesn't exist.
11:08:05 <andythenorth> ok, so if you approach it from a white sheet of paper
11:08:14 <andythenorth> and I approach it from using PIPE grf in half my games
11:08:17 <andythenorth> where do we end up? o_O
11:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that thing fulfills pretty much none of the requirements i proposed earlier
11:08:37 <andythenorth> I did play F! once, but the conveyors totally confused me
11:08:42 <andythenorth> then some biters appeared
11:08:46 <andythenorth> and the landscape is ugly
11:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's something completely different, and has nothing to do with my proposal
11:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: next we discuss subways and you link the fake underground grf as "proof of concept" which is neither a concept nor a proof
11:10:39 <andythenorth> subway is solved, just needs signals in tunnels, and building on tunnel heads, and stations in tunnels
11:10:58 <andythenorth> anyway, designs are better if there are very contrasting inputs
11:11:16 <andythenorth> PIPE is obviously a hack, and I've pushed it as far as I can in games, and it's not satisfying
11:11:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: make a list of pre-requisites for a pipeline transport type?
11:13:26 <peter1138> Trams as metro would be more compact, but less satisfying :/
11:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's not subways. that's underground railway
11:13:56 <peter1138> What's the difference? :D
11:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but "underground tram" is definitely part of the solution
11:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the sea pipeline must get a flag to allow ship travel
11:17:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (so effectively a "canal with pipeline")
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12:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> what does bauxite have to do with Ag?
12:04:18 *** Beerbelott has joined #openttd
12:11:00 <planetmaker> both are a topic in crystalography
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12:14:38 <andythenorth> for welding steel?
12:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> seems unnecessarily detailed
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12:15:30 <andythenorth> it's a valid output from soda ash mine, which already exists
12:15:38 <andythenorth> but the quantities :P
12:16:27 <andythenorth> the game isn't great at handling tiny quantities :P
12:16:31 <andythenorth> 'tubes of flux'?
12:19:48 <Beerbelott> Who was w/ me playing w/ -e & -g command-line switches combo yday?
12:21:07 <Beerbelott> Ah nice! Was searching for that on the OFTC website
12:23:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fhNuS
12:24:29 <planetmaker> hm, 500 for the logs?
12:25:22 <Beerbelott> The root list yup, here too
12:25:22 <planetmaker> but 26th feb... strange
12:26:43 <Beerbelott> Oh and btw, nginx 1.13.12 is outdated, better switch to either 1.14.2 or 1.15.9
12:29:25 <LordAro> Beerbelott: debian very much takes the view of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
12:29:37 <LordAro> which i imagine this server is running
12:33:00 <planetmaker> nginx actually runs on centos
12:35:41 <planetmaker> if stock packages from a distro can be used, that is a bonus. Less hassle
12:36:20 <Beerbelott> nginx official package on Debian wouldn't be mainline, be rather stable, and is currently providing 1.10 ;)
12:37:06 <planetmaker> I don't mind it not being mainline. But it receives security fixes when from the distro. *That* is important
12:37:21 <planetmaker> not bleeding edge or whatever nifty feature-I-don't-need-anyway
12:38:48 <planetmaker> I also know that many of the devzone / openttdcoop servers could need an overhaul. But as basically all other people who co-maintained the severs disappeared... it became tedious.
12:40:25 <planetmaker> as such I mostly only update them for security fixes
12:43:15 <planetmaker> I'll be quite happy to share it with someone interested in doing OpenTTD stuff. Be it server. be it NewGRFs. AI. GS. whatever or any combination.
12:43:54 <planetmaker> it's not a viable way, andythenorth... some of the important VMs reach their EOL in <24 months
12:44:40 <planetmaker> will become non-maintained. Servers without security-maintenance... not a good thing
12:44:51 <andythenorth> presumably nothing is configuration managed?
12:45:00 <andythenorth> it's all hand built?
12:45:31 <planetmaker> explain configuration-managed to me. Possibly some is actually
12:45:47 <andythenorth> ansible / puppet / chef orchestration
12:45:57 <planetmaker> Just me not knowing how to use it. Ah. That at least used to be there
12:46:02 <andythenorth> or at least key configuration settings deployed from a repo with a shell script :P
12:46:20 <andythenorth> the key principle is that servers become disposable w.r.t configuration state
12:46:28 <andythenorth> by scripting repeatable builds
12:46:40 <andythenorth> so then we're only concerned about preserving content state (backups)
12:47:01 <Beerbelott> planetmaker: that's configuration management indeed
12:47:31 <Beerbelott> is there any or at least a way to list requirements for each machine planetmaker?
12:47:44 <Beerbelott> I could give a hand I guess
12:49:24 <Beerbelott> that's more my field than development anyway :p
12:50:19 <andythenorth> responsible ops help is always valued :)
12:50:26 <andythenorth> the bus factor is currently too high
12:51:04 <planetmaker> Beerbelott, not sure that exists... but I'm sure I could make a write-up
12:51:33 <Beerbelott> planetmaker: or and trial-and-error basis seems fine to me
12:52:03 <planetmaker> well, it's mostly easy: one VM per task. And their task is pretty straight forward
12:52:14 <Beerbelott> the idea being attempting to set-up a new farm inspired by an existing machine and see if it can do everything it's supposed to do ;)
12:53:00 <andythenorth> that looks like a service register :)
12:53:13 <planetmaker> that's the current running VMs on the coop server
12:54:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7284: Fix #7043, Fix #7274: Delete town owned bridge based on adjacent tile ownership, not nearest town. https://git.io/fhNzO
12:54:49 <planetmaker> but not all are exactly needed, some are there for legacy reasons
12:55:17 <planetmaker> where the reasons have become... mostly obsolete
12:57:45 <andythenorth> nuke from orbit :D
12:57:47 <Beerbelott> Is OpenVZ a requirement? No LXC nor Docker around?
12:58:40 <LordAro> Beerbelott: these systems long predate lxc or docker :p
12:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly certain it's just a "this wasn't around yet when we set this up"
12:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and using them now amounts to a "let's rebuild this from scratch"
13:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> which, frankly, might be appropriate :)
13:01:57 <Beerbelott> well OpenVZ is still existing
13:02:14 <Beerbelott> Sometimes there are strong opinions about which technology to use, much like programming languages ;)
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13:02:38 <Beerbelott> I prefer asking upfront, rather than risking starting another dull opinionated dialgue of the deaf
13:02:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7238: Codechange: Remove assert when trying to intersect two tile areas and… https://git.io/fhNzl
13:03:00 <planetmaker> Beerbelott, OpenVZ is not a requirement. But I'm scared to update / change the hypervisor. The payment plan for the current server is quite good...
13:03:37 <planetmaker> Beerbelott, indeed, today, I probably would choose something in the lines of docker or so, myself. OpenVZ was a good choice 10 or 15 years ago at least
13:03:51 <Beerbelott> planetmaker: Well nothing insuperable. Allow me a bit of time to catch up with my own experiments
13:04:35 <planetmaker> changing the hypervisor probably would need a two-stage process: migrate everything to a 2nd server as-is (thus another openvz). And then setup the current one anew with new tech
13:04:43 <Beerbelott> I like LXC principales very much, but hell I haven't got my head round with them yet
13:05:03 <Beerbelott> planetmaker: let's do this them
13:05:06 <andythenorth> planetmaker: are we preserving separate ottdc infra? :)
13:05:16 <andythenorth> I am +/-0 but I wonder about combining with ottd
13:05:25 <andythenorth> I guess coop games aren't really core ottd
13:06:21 <Beerbelott> planetmaker: Debian-based host?
13:07:02 <planetmaker> given the support-time, centos is actually even preferrable.
13:07:28 <planetmaker> I don't have strong opinions about debian vs. centos, though
13:08:27 <Beerbelott> I am more comfortable w/ the former though
13:10:04 <planetmaker> Support timeframe is for servers a quite important one
13:10:12 <planetmaker> *especially* for the HV
13:10:49 <Beerbelott> Well it's a mere matter of adapting deployment sequence to package managers and file locations
13:10:59 <planetmaker> you'd be surprised how many different OS are used in the different VMs currently. It's... astonishing :P
13:11:10 <Beerbelott> I hope you have people qualified on CentOS to know about its quirks & bruises
13:11:55 <planetmaker> qualified? I can keep it running with duct-tape
13:13:13 <Beerbelott> Ah I see CentOS also fell for systemd
13:14:09 <planetmaker> centos promises support till 2024. debian till 2022
13:14:36 <planetmaker> for current stable
13:15:02 <Beerbelott> distro-upgrade is a thing u know
13:15:06 <planetmaker> (and no, ubunutu is out-of-question for anything. I've made bad experiences there...)
13:15:09 <Beerbelott> expecially if all you have are containers
13:15:35 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7284: Fix #7043, Fix #7274: Delete town owned bridge based on adjacent tile ownership, not nearest town. https://git.io/fhNzo
13:15:45 <planetmaker> distro-upgrade is a thing. Which can screw you quite nicely. And is nice, if it just works. But no guarantees there by anyone
13:15:51 <Beerbelott> no worries Ubuntu history makes me laugh
13:16:31 <Beerbelott> that's where config management kicks in, even for the host, right? :)
13:18:37 <LordAro> Beerbelott: "fell for systemd" dude, it's what systemd was made for
13:18:43 <LordAro> well, rhel, but still
13:19:32 <Xaroth> planetmaker +1 from me for ansible as configuration management.. but I may be biased as somebody who regularly hangs out around Ansible.
13:19:50 <Beerbelott> LordAro: Well I don't usually take much time investigating what the whereabouts of the plague is ;)
13:22:20 <LordAro> ah, so more of an ideologist
13:22:56 <Beerbelott> LordAro: personal opinion, which I won't develop here if u allow me
13:23:33 <Beerbelott> say I like sticking stability, accountability and UNIX principles
13:23:56 <Eddi|zuHause> from outer space?
13:24:20 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Town bridges store town indexes in map array. https://git.io/fhNzS
13:24:41 <planetmaker> I should have deleted the default spyder-header :P
13:25:20 * andythenorth learning about grades of steel
13:25:28 <andythenorth> and whether it can be split into more than 1 cargo :P
13:25:45 <LordAro> peter1138: ...what changes are there there?
13:26:14 <peter1138> UTF8 BOM, I imagine.
13:26:43 <peter1138> (Also LOL HTML 4.01)
13:58:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Town bridges store town indexes in map array. https://git.io/fhNgX
14:03:12 <peter1138> m2 as town index will give jgrpp some fun :p
14:32:57 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder where town bridge owner is used?
14:35:18 <planetmaker> upgrading bridges by company?
14:36:14 <planetmaker> or probably rather 'not upgrading'
14:36:32 <planetmaker> and when checking whether a tram track can be built over it
14:36:45 <planetmaker> but... it just needs info 'town'. Not which town
14:37:18 <peter1138> Yeah, that's either company or town, not a particular town.
14:37:22 <peter1138> Unless town-rating comes into it.
14:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> do roads store which town owns them?
14:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i think they do, for town zone purposes?
14:38:43 <peter1138> Some roads do, yes.
14:38:58 <peter1138> Town-rating and probably zone.
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14:39:06 <planetmaker> he... zone purpose? Zone is just manhatten distance to centre and not stored anywhere, is it?
14:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> then there's a case why bridges should as well, even though they don't have graphical variation on town zone (yet)
14:39:22 <peter1138> planetmaker, sure, but you need to know which town for that :-)
14:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, center of which town?
14:39:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: afaik not how it currently works
14:39:57 <peter1138> No, closest doesn't work.
14:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: big town encircling small town has definitely difference in town zones
14:40:10 <planetmaker> pathological edge case: 3M town with a 20 pop village at its edge
14:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that rare
14:40:22 <peter1138> Not an edge case, it happens a lot.
14:40:59 <peter1138> Deleting bridges because of wrong nearest town is one of the problems fixed by these changes.
14:41:21 <peter1138> I solved it a different way as that only affects world-gen.
14:42:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe "closest town" should not be a voronoi diagram, but flipped on expanding a town
14:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause> if a town builds a road or a house, it flips adjacent tiles to itself
14:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> or you could have the "distance" in the voronoi calculation be skewed by town size
14:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (that would also occasionally flip tiles over, as towns grow at different speeds)
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14:46:06 <peter1138> Basically, if you add another uint16 to the map array, you can have explicit towns for every tile regardless of type.
14:46:20 <peter1138> Basically take the voronoi patch and discard the voronoi bit.
14:46:44 <peter1138> Of course, 32MB extra for a 4kx4k map.
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14:47:29 <peter1138> Although that doesn't handle anything about towns expanding or shrinking. I'll shut up.
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14:57:06 <Samu> i dont know why that happened
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15:03:55 <Samu> doesn't happen with notepad++
15:04:06 <Samu> happens with visual studio
15:13:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Town bridges store town indexes in map array. https://git.io/fhbpT
15:25:19 <peter1138> I should work on my command bit-packing helpers.
15:25:26 <peter1138> Would be useful in this case.
15:51:48 <Samu> what is stored when i build a rail bridge
15:53:54 <Samu> i think i forgot something
15:55:57 <Samu> it builds rail which uses 0
16:28:48 <Samu> owner none trams in scenario editor
16:29:19 <Samu> how to do this, if possible
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16:43:23 <Samu> this can be simplified, now that I take a deep look at it
16:45:12 <peter1138> It should be unnecessary if you provided the town in the build bridge command.
16:46:32 <Samu> i dont need to check roadtypes
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16:48:58 <Samu> GrowTownInTile(&tile, cur_rb, target_dir, t);
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16:51:41 <Samu> *tile_ptr = GetOtherTunnelBridgeEnd(tile);
16:51:57 <Samu> that means it's still the same bridge
16:52:23 <Samu> so no need to check for roadtypes
16:55:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Town bridges store town indexes in map array. https://git.io/fhbpT
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16:59:52 <Samu> it checks for town roadbits
17:00:37 <Samu> so no need to repeat that
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17:03:24 <Samu> towns don't like to expand on trams
17:14:30 <Samu> should road bridges that contain tram tracks be owned by towns?
17:14:56 <Samu> for roads it appears the answer is yes, but...
17:15:14 <Samu> don't know if they warrant the same treatment
17:40:26 <peter1138> Towns can't build trams, so it won't be their bridge.
17:41:17 <peter1138> This is where the definition of 'owning town' and 'nearest town' is confusing:p
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17:45:06 <nielsm> if a player builds tram on a town's bridge does it become the player's bridge or what?
17:45:23 <nielsm> or does it remain town owned?
17:45:29 <Samu> i removed the road part of a OWNER_TOWN road, and the tram stayed
17:45:38 <nielsm> and in that case could another player then destroy the bridge?
17:45:45 <Samu> tram is owned by OWNER_NONE, but tile is still owned by OWNER_TOWN
17:47:17 <peter1138> Still seems like a lot of effort for something that only manifests during world-gen :p
17:47:25 <nielsm> and if a player becomes owner of a town bridge after building tram on it, does that mean the player could bypass local authority restrictions on destroying the bridge by building tram on it then destroying it?
17:48:37 <Samu> scenario editor in this case
17:48:47 <Samu> and it needs to load a savegame with trams
17:49:39 <Samu> the owner of the tile is OWNER_TOWN, pointing into the t-index
17:49:51 <Samu> the owner of the road on the tile is OWNER_TOWN
17:50:00 <Samu> the owner of the tram on the tile is my company
17:50:17 <Samu> owner of the road is also pointing to t->index
17:50:48 <Samu> let me test another player destroy the bridge
17:52:07 <Samu> owned by my company, doesn't let it be destroyed
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17:54:18 <Samu> cannot downgrade the bridge
17:54:29 <Samu> this time local authority comes up denying it
17:56:06 <peter1138> You can make it better, but you can't make it worse.
17:56:22 <Samu> yeah, but it has tram on it from another company
17:56:39 <Samu> i was allowed to upgraded it
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17:59:41 <Samu> this now mimics the same behaviour as roads
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18:00:33 <Samu> if roads are wrong, then it's not my fault, i just made it do the same
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19:43:31 <peter1138> Actually only 2, so I had enough hands to carry them home.
19:43:53 <peter1138> Now I have to dispose of 3 oreo 'eggs' somehow.
19:44:54 <peter1138> Also some massive sweet potatoes.
19:46:54 * andythenorth rage quits WOT Blitz
19:48:44 <peter1138> Hmm, I could do some coding, or play beta3.
19:50:26 <peter1138> I remember why I didn't play MP much.
19:50:34 <peter1138> Stuff happens when you are not there :p
19:51:39 <peter1138> Hmm, load openttdcoops save -> enable cargodist -> enjoy.
19:51:57 <peter1138> /usr/include/SDL/SDL_stdinc.h:74:11: fatal error: 'iconv.h' file not found
19:57:58 <andythenorth> and there's no daylength
19:58:05 <andythenorth> so all the trains expire really quickly
19:58:12 <andythenorth> when will daylength be done?
19:59:54 <peter1138> Have you written it?
20:00:56 <peter1138> NRT was rebased on Monday, do I need to do it again?
20:03:09 <andythenorth> I was going to add intro-date-scaling parameter to Iron Horse
20:03:14 <andythenorth> but Eddi|zuHause forbids it :D
20:03:30 <peter1138> You can solve daylength with a gamescript ;)
20:03:45 <peter1138> (I don't know if you actually can...)
20:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> except you can't :p
20:08:44 <andythenorth> the best solution was eddi's patch
20:10:27 <peter1138> Maybe I should cook my dinner instead of my code.
20:10:29 * andythenorth looks for old patches
20:10:32 <andythenorth> I have to cook dinner
20:10:38 <peter1138> Maybe I should make a patch pack.
20:10:50 <peter1138> Merge it all and totally mess up my repo.
20:10:53 <andythenorth> fix tropic patch
20:11:15 <andythenorth> add windowshade to station building window patch
20:11:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
20:14:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fhNiZ
20:17:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhd4b
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20:24:15 <nielsm> the CI hates me :( it looks like it's not even getting the kdtree build job submitted this time
20:37:49 <andythenorth> CI always hates everyone :)
20:37:53 <andythenorth> that's what we pay it for :)
20:47:12 <TrueBrain> at least that fixes the double-queue issue nielsm :P
20:47:50 <TrueBrain> ah. they rolled out the new version
20:49:16 <TrueBrain> nielsm: queued one for you manually :P
20:51:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azure-pipelines[bot] commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/fhNij
20:51:55 <nielsm> what kind of comment was that?
20:52:37 <peter1138> One that didn't work, I guess.
20:55:00 <TrueBrain> yeah; you can now trigger builds from comments
20:55:09 <TrueBrain> the idea/hope was that it could trigger a "nightly" build
20:55:15 <TrueBrain> I tried it, it barfed
20:55:31 <TrueBrain> I also rather have that it rebuilds on every push, instead that you have to tell it every push to build
20:55:39 <TrueBrain> I need to look into this a bit more :)
20:57:21 <andythenorth> I left openttd running at title game
20:57:25 <andythenorth> now my battery is flat :P
20:57:46 <TrueBrain> my battery is always flat
20:57:50 <TrueBrain> when it is no longer flat, is when I worry
20:57:53 <TrueBrain> but .. that is just me
20:59:07 <nielsm> not a very good name it got :)
20:59:17 <TrueBrain> yeah .. that happens with manual jobs
20:59:24 <TrueBrain> GitHub overwrites that name normally :)
21:00:17 <TrueBrain> hmm, it didnt report on GitHub the status?
21:00:39 <TrueBrain> how about this ....
21:01:03 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is reported ... okay ...
21:01:13 <TrueBrain> so, Azure Pipelines normally runs the /merge of a PR
21:01:18 <nielsm> so, todo for viewport signs kdtree use: separate town names from the rest so they are drawn on bottom, fix the X axis search range somehow
21:01:24 <TrueBrain> but manually you have to trigger /head .. which reports wrong on Azure Pipelines
21:01:27 <TrueBrain> but correct in GitHub
21:06:31 <peter1138> Hmm, should I learn how to write an AI?
21:07:36 <peter1138> 5 new Note block sounds have been added: Iron Xylophone, Cow Bell, Didgeridoo, Bit, and Banjo
21:07:40 <peter1138> Maybe I should play Minecraft a bit...
21:07:54 <TrueBrain> glx: "For now we rely on cmake default CMAKE_CONFIGURATION_TYPES and CMAKE_XXXXX_FLAGS_, but it should be better to manage that by ourselves" <- this is a very vague and blank statement :P
21:08:00 <TrueBrain> especially the last part
21:08:04 <TrueBrain> no clue what you try to say here :)
21:08:32 <peter1138> Oh, is it worth me trying to compile for Android?
21:09:08 <glx> well I mean set CMAKE_CONFIGURATION and the flags in our script and ignore default values
21:09:36 <glx> like you did for MT(d) but that was a little too aggressive :)
21:09:56 <TrueBrain> I am still not sure what you mean ..
21:10:43 <TrueBrain> MT and MD is a special case MSVC created; CMake doesn't support that (yet?)
21:11:38 <TrueBrain> yes; it doesn't support switching to MT
21:11:53 <TrueBrain> this is mostly because MSVC is the only one with such a flag, it seems
21:12:03 <TrueBrain> but what has that to do with cmake_configuration_types?
21:12:04 <glx> oh my comment has been truncated
21:13:51 <glx> by default it's CMAKE_CONFIGURATION_TYPES:STRING=Debug;Release;MinSizeRel;RelWithDebInfo
21:14:07 <glx> and it then add all of that in the project
21:14:49 <glx> we could just have debug and release, and use the same flags as in the old projects
21:14:58 <TrueBrain> what does that solve?
21:15:06 <peter1138> Damn, non-rect catchment pushed back to 1.10 :(
21:15:25 <glx> currently release build have no symbols
21:16:04 <TrueBrain> is RelWithDebInfo with symbols?
21:16:35 <glx> I think it is, but that means creating a new build dir to test it for me
21:17:55 <TrueBrain> okay, I am not completely sure what you try to do or say .. as it is still very vague to me :P
21:17:57 <glx> but having just 2 config and explicitely set all flags ensure it does what we want
21:18:12 <TrueBrain> but we really should keep cmake as much default as possible
21:18:17 <glx> and no rely on some "hidden" defaults
21:18:22 <TrueBrain> the chances they know better what we should do is very high :)
21:18:35 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5s1
21:18:39 <TrueBrain> any change we make to the default, is more work we have to maintain, especially over multiple cmake versions
21:18:47 <TrueBrain> so we really have to have a VERY good reason to touch these things
21:19:18 <TrueBrain> the idea of cmake move is to make the world easier again ;)
21:19:30 <TrueBrain> lets add as little deviations to that as humanly possible :D
21:19:37 <TrueBrain> set(CMAKE_EXE_LINKER_FLAGS_RELEASE "${CMAKE_EXE_LINKER_FLAGS_RELEASE} /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMTD.LIB")
21:19:46 <TrueBrain> glx: no clue what that line does, but it also lacks any kind of comment
21:19:55 <TrueBrain> IF we make a specific exception, it might be good that we document the reason why
21:20:03 <peter1138> Coding style question, is "FOR_ALL_TOWNS(t) DoSomething();" permitted?
21:20:06 <TrueBrain> otherwise .. we end up with config.lib :D
21:20:13 <peter1138> Or should I put { } in?
21:20:24 <nielsm> any /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMTD.LIB and other nodefaultlib is a sign you're mixing objects/static libs built with different msvc runtime versions
21:20:25 <TrueBrain> peter1138: grep the code ? (honestly no clue :D)
21:20:34 <nielsm> typically debug/release mixing, or static/dll mixing
21:20:50 <TrueBrain> mt/md in this case possibly? :P
21:20:52 <nielsm> either of those is generally a bad idea
21:21:12 <peter1138> TrueBrain, we do it in a few places already. LordAro flagged it though.
21:21:17 <glx> MTd for debug, and MT for release
21:21:45 <TrueBrain> anyway .. exactly this is why it needs a comment :)
21:21:52 <TrueBrain> so someone can come in and say: this means something else is fishy :D
21:21:55 <glx> and the warning is only from the generated project
21:22:33 <glx> the old version had /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMT.LIB for debug builds
21:22:41 <nielsm> it's probably one of the static libraries linked (freetype, compression libs) that's causing the linker issue without that flag
21:23:07 <TrueBrain> I rather have that we zoom in why there is a problem
21:23:12 <glx> and the settings are correct in the project
21:23:21 <TrueBrain> if we still want to nodefaultlib, at least we have a comment explaining why we came to the conclusion :D
21:23:31 <nielsm> yeah best to figure out why a static lib built with a different runtime is being used
21:27:16 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhNPo
21:28:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhNPP
21:30:16 <TrueBrain> meh; variables in CMake are a pita
21:30:23 <TrueBrain> but I have to toy with it to see if we can just remove them
21:32:12 <TrueBrain> hmm, yeah, in this case too, but it needs some moving around of code
21:32:21 <TrueBrain> I will pick that up this weekend or something :)
21:32:32 <TrueBrain> (I always move stuff around 20 times in CMake, before it finds it place :P)
21:32:37 <glx> it's hard to see what flags are actually set, you need to check CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS, and one CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_XXX for each config
21:32:57 <TrueBrain> the nice thing about CMake .. you should not worry what flags are set :P
21:33:11 <TrueBrain> often, when you notice yourself doing that, you went too far down the rabbit hole :P
21:33:17 <TrueBrain> (just personal experience)
21:33:26 <TrueBrain> often they are wrong because something else is wrong ;)
21:33:44 <TrueBrain> the MT/MD is the first I have seen in a long time that cmake simply doesn't support (yet?)
21:33:55 <TrueBrain> for that you need to touch those .. but those are the really rare cases .. or should be :D
21:34:16 <TrueBrain> lzma is weird .. only library in cmake names liblzma .. all others are without 'lib'
21:34:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhNPQ
21:34:57 <glx> yes but easier to change our #ifdef than handle a special case
21:35:09 <TrueBrain> yeah, your change is the correct change
21:35:14 <TrueBrain> it is still odd, that lzma is odd :P
21:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> the best solution was eddi's patch <-- i don't think i had a patch
21:36:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhNP5
21:36:26 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you made years rollover
21:36:44 <andythenorth> so date progression was half the usual rate
21:36:50 <andythenorth> I lost the patch
21:37:04 <TrueBrain> glx: fun fact, GLOB RESURCIVE is SLOW as fuck :P
21:37:18 <peter1138> Hmm, this Talisker Storm tastes funny :/
21:37:36 <glx> anyway in master no need for /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMTD.LIB, and it's using the same vcpkg libs
21:38:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5s1
21:38:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhNPN
21:38:38 <TrueBrain> glx: I have no clue what that sentence means :) Sorry :P
21:38:51 <TrueBrain> "in master", is where I am lost
21:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> my battery is always flat <-- am i weird when my batteries are usually round?
21:39:10 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: laptop batteries?
21:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think that was me
21:39:15 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that would be weird :)
21:39:29 <TrueBrain> LiIon batteries are most common flat
21:39:40 <TrueBrain> when they swell up, the membrane broke, and you can better throw it away :P
21:40:41 <TrueBrain> glx: anyway, nice work so far :) Some CMake thingies that we can improve on, but that is true for most of the CMake code we have so far :)
21:41:14 <peter1138> Just imagine if you were trying to use waf...
21:41:16 <glx> hmm beginner seems better
21:41:41 <planetmaker> I think debutant is understandable, too (at least to Germans ;) )
21:41:54 <TrueBrain> you can only be a debutant once, and a beginner for ever :D
21:42:11 <TrueBrain> I leave it up to glx to pick one :P
21:42:13 <glx> btw with cmake you now get -- Version string: 20190227--g7708188bd9 in the compile log
21:42:26 <TrueBrain> your branch detection broke!
21:42:27 <planetmaker> master is missing there
21:42:37 <TrueBrain> CI doesn't have a branch
21:42:54 <TrueBrain> (it is a detached head)
21:43:56 <TrueBrain> so that is working as intended, in my opinion :)
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21:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> we might want to have some filler text for the detached head case :)
21:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> or generally the no-branch-found case
21:48:38 <TrueBrain> why? They never produce a binary you can download :)
21:48:50 <TrueBrain> and if you locally do this ... if you shoot yourself in your foot, it tends to hurt :P
21:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> there has been a complaint that you can't reproduce nightly builds locally, because "master" might have moved on and the version is "wrong" then
21:50:12 <TrueBrain> that is why we publish the hash of the nightly, which you can check out :)
21:50:28 <glx> you can always get the right version locally
21:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but when you check out the hash, you get a different version string
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21:50:51 <TrueBrain> nielsm: network check is now based only on git hash? Or still also on branch?
21:50:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:51:08 <nielsm> git checkout master && git reset --hard $nightlyhash
21:51:09 <peter1138> The hash is the same though. The network version changes that nielsm did should mean it only checks that.
21:51:30 <nielsm> yeah unless it's a tag build, then it only compares the hash part of a network version
21:51:37 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: there is your answer :)
21:51:41 <andythenorth> how long until I use all industry tiles? :P
21:51:46 <peter1138> andythenorth, 5 minutes.
21:51:53 <nielsm> tag builds require exact match of the network revision
21:51:55 <andythenorth> not sure I code that fast
21:52:00 <TrueBrain> nielsm: that is fair :)
21:52:01 <nielsm> non-tag builds only check the hash
21:52:12 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: so there is not really a problem, from what I can tell?
21:52:21 <TrueBrain> (please correct if I am wrong :D)
21:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> well, depends how far you want to lawyer the word "problem" ,p
21:53:24 <TrueBrain> you said there was a complaint :P I was hoping you could tell if the above information reclassifies the complaint as "just wasn't educated sufficiently" :P
21:53:24 <andythenorth> also gonna run out of industry IDs
21:53:34 <andythenorth> I can always re-pack them per economy though
21:53:44 <TrueBrain> so nightlies can just do: git checkout <hash> -B nightly
21:54:05 <TrueBrain> sure, the string in the title window is "wrong" .. but they can still join any multiplayer server of that same hash version :)
21:54:17 <TrueBrain> unless we tagged that exact same version
21:54:21 <TrueBrain> than you are just screwed :P
21:54:45 <peter1138> TrueBrain, one of the "complaints"swas from me, and it was from before nielsm's changes ;)
21:55:02 <peter1138> It was that that led to the changes, heh.
21:55:07 <TrueBrain> peter1138: so Eddi|zuHause was just making a fuzz for nothing? :P :D (j/k Eddi|zuHause :D)
21:55:21 <peter1138> He may have forgotten or not known, heh.
21:55:31 <TrueBrain> I am just teasing him now
21:55:38 <TrueBrain> but I am honestly interested if there are still complaints
21:55:42 <TrueBrain> as this takes a bit getting used to
21:55:48 <TrueBrain> things are a bit different now with git
21:56:03 <TrueBrain> so it is good to indicate when people don't understand of don't know how to solve a situation
21:56:14 <peter1138> TrueBrain, some people still think hg should've been chosen ;(
21:56:22 <TrueBrain> people think a lot of things
21:56:33 <peter1138> Is there an hghub? hehe
21:57:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i had not forgotten about the timeline, but i was a bit grasping for an argument vaguely related to my aim that "20190227--g7708188bd9" should use some filler text between the -- :)
21:57:38 <TrueBrain> we can add: YOUAREAPEANUT, in that case?
21:57:40 <TrueBrain> I am okay with that
21:58:15 <peter1138> Make it a \0 to cause fun.
21:58:25 <andythenorth> is it done yet? :P
21:58:36 <glx> it's the CI anyway no one should use it
21:58:39 <andythenorth> name some types of Steel
21:59:57 <planetmaker> the first is for saline water, the other not
21:59:57 <TrueBrain> Steel was a good movie
22:00:49 <andythenorth> how far shall we explore Ferrous Scrap in OpenTTD? :P
22:00:53 <glx> ok in master there's a /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMT.LIB for debug builds, but it's useless, must be from a very old time
22:01:11 <glx> so I should debug more on cmke side :)
22:01:40 <glx> because the same vcpkg binaries are used
22:03:14 <nielsm> glx, or maybe from when ICU was in use?
22:03:44 <glx> possible, ICU was a pain to build anyway
22:05:41 <andythenorth> I think they were all rage-deleted from simutrans iirc
22:06:20 <peter1138> That screenshot competition should require savegames, hehe :D
22:11:02 *** octernion has joined #openttd
22:12:58 * peter1138 finishes off the blue stilton
22:13:54 <peter1138> Use-by 19th Jan. Nicely mature, IMHO.
22:14:56 <andythenorth> probably ready now
22:15:27 <peter1138> Maybe I should draw that glyph for the station catchment button.
22:15:46 <andythenorth> maybe nml should be faster :x
22:16:01 <peter1138> I've not had a decent night's sleep for ages.
22:16:08 <peter1138> Keep staying up late fiddling with code.
22:16:20 <peter1138> Making random PRs, filling up github.
22:16:29 <andythenorth> stay up playing ottd
22:16:41 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
22:16:54 <andythenorth> Carbon Black Plant then?
22:17:08 <andythenorth> so do I do Tar or Coal Tar?
22:17:32 <andythenorth> Tar is available from multiple sources, but you only make paracetamol from Coal Tar :P
22:17:48 <andythenorth> I just pick one and change it later of course :P
22:18:02 <peter1138> Oops, I forgot I wasn't in my branch that fixes 4096^2 map generation.
22:18:40 <andythenorth> does it remove it?
22:24:10 <andythenorth> in UK English 'tar' apparently refers to 'coal tar' usually
22:24:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhd4b
22:24:18 <andythenorth> not wood tar, or petrochemical tar
22:24:25 <andythenorth> except when it's road tar
22:24:30 <andythenorth> which is asphalt or bitumen
22:24:40 <andythenorth> but UK asphalt isn't asphalt
22:25:11 <andythenorth> uk asphalt is bitumen
22:25:16 <nielsm> is that actually the source for "tarmac" for road surface?
22:26:12 <nielsm> (if you go to a fast food store and order a McTar, is that a coffee?)
22:26:19 <andythenorth> but the tarmac at an airport is usually a form of concrete
22:26:45 <andythenorth> I go back to making trains
22:26:52 <andythenorth> or all cargo is 'stuff'
22:27:05 <peter1138> Hmm, these ships aren't centered properly.
22:27:27 <peter1138> FISH 0.9.2 I guess.
22:27:42 <nielsm> would anyone dare test if viewport signs in kdtree are behaving properly now?
22:27:59 * andythenorth abandoned all FISH
22:28:13 <andythenorth> did I release Unsinkable Sam yet?
22:28:37 <nielsm> let's make a release build and try that 50k stations save again
22:28:56 <nielsm> it was slow in panning with the linear search for visible signs
22:30:16 <nielsm> I suppose some generated town names can be very long, and combine that with very long station name affixes too
22:30:25 <andythenorth> does Coal Tar conflate with Coal too easily?
22:30:30 <nielsm> and you could get some signs wider than this anticipates
22:30:31 <andythenorth> 1.10 in June pet
22:31:06 <peter1138> nielsm, seems to work okay for me.
22:31:10 <peter1138> Faster than master.
22:31:43 <andythenorth> Industrial Finishes?
22:32:07 <nielsm> yup panning around is very smooth
22:32:14 <peter1138> It did just freeze. Hmm.
22:33:17 <peter1138> This save is bugged though.
22:33:27 <peter1138> Maybe due to the number of stations, I don't know.
22:33:32 <peter1138> But now all stations have signs.
22:35:25 * peter1138 tests 4096^2 world gen.
22:35:51 <peter1138> That's pretty fast.
22:37:30 <andythenorth> 16 cargos in, 16 out
22:37:41 * andythenorth makes FIRS Steeltown really hard :P
22:38:37 <peter1138> But won't help #7043 of course.
22:39:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fhNXd
22:39:52 <peter1138> I forgot to use time :p
22:40:06 <peter1138> So I generated a 4096^2 world for no reason.
22:41:03 <nielsm> ah yeah, if you choose Catalan town names you get some crazy long ones
22:41:14 <andythenorth> 'Foundry' or 'Engine Plant' :P
22:41:42 <andythenorth> and 'Electrical Machines Factory' seems really long name
22:41:58 <glx> time to try multiline town names ?
22:42:44 <nielsm> even those long names no clipping
22:42:47 <peter1138> So faster than my patch.
22:43:07 <peter1138> Probably some disconnected towns though :)
22:43:25 <glx> luck in station placement ;)
22:45:06 <andythenorth> oof, so 'Electrical Machines Factory' is the longest FIRS industry name
22:45:09 <andythenorth> and is very clunky
22:45:43 <andythenorth> just 'machine works'?
22:46:22 <andythenorth> FIRS already has a 'Machine Shop' which is quite different :P
22:46:55 <Samu> or enable debug signs in some of the AIs
22:47:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhN1J
22:49:40 <Samu> what do these two UpdateStationWaiting's warning mean?
22:50:30 <nielsm> the function is called twice on different stations
22:50:55 <nielsm> the order those stations are processed must be the same on all clients in a network game, otherwise you get desyncs
22:51:22 <nielsm> if you put both calls in a single statement in C++, the compiler is technically free to call them in either order, one or the other first
22:51:49 <nielsm> and the comments explain that, they must not be on the same statement to ensure the correct call order
22:54:24 <andythenorth> dare I split 'scrap metal'?
22:54:35 <andythenorth> it was pretty controversial that cargo
22:55:30 <nielsm> why is it a pseudo-required input for steel?
22:56:54 <andythenorth> that cargo (and the junk yard industry) are the only bits of FIRS Steeltown I don't like
22:57:08 <andythenorth> it's somehow unsatisfying and I always tackle it late in game
22:57:27 <andythenorth> actual RL scrap metal is sorted into
22:57:38 <andythenorth> - cast iron, which goes to foundry for remelt
22:57:49 * peter1138 tests with #7250 and #7284 merged together.
22:57:54 <andythenorth> - general ferrous scrap which goes to blast furnace or mini mill
22:58:07 <andythenorth> - copper scrap, goes to remelt at copper casting plant
22:58:17 <andythenorth> - stainless steel (boring in game)
22:58:53 * andythenorth wonders if junk yard should work like FIRS recycling depot
22:58:59 <andythenorth> production depends on town popn
22:59:12 <nielsm> recycling station, industry inside towns whose output depends on town population? and outputs several of those you just listed?
23:00:28 <peter1138> No improvement with both, unsurprisingly. Although no disconnected towns.
23:03:11 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has joined #openttd
23:05:15 <peter1138> Make Scrapyards Great Again.
23:05:27 <peter1138> Looks fine, although a bit bare.
23:05:54 <peter1138> Maybe it was the screen.
23:06:04 * andythenorth explores Factorio cargos
23:10:27 <andythenorth> just one type of Steel then? :P
23:10:47 <peter1138> Probably sufficient.
23:10:51 <andythenorth> Steel Coil, Steel Beams, Steel Billets, Steel Rods, Steel Ingots, Steel Blooms, Steel Plates
23:11:01 <andythenorth> oh that's what subtypes are *supposed* to be for
23:11:10 <andythenorth> did they ever get used for that?
23:11:12 <andythenorth> or just for livery crap?
23:11:31 <andythenorth> there's no cargo class for 'molten'
23:11:38 <andythenorth> is that 'hazardous'?
23:11:39 <peter1138> DBSetXL used them for that, yes.
23:11:46 <andythenorth> I never tried it :O
23:11:54 <andythenorth> is it on bananaramas?
23:12:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
23:12:40 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN dismissed a review for pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fhNiZ
23:13:19 <peter1138> But it was one of the driving forces getting better NewGRF support in OpenTTD.
23:16:25 <andythenorth> did BR Trains die again?
23:19:39 <peter1138> I'm losing track of my own PRs :p
23:24:34 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
23:29:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7289: Add: Configurable ship curve penalties (YAPF) https://git.io/fhN1H
23:29:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
23:40:59 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
23:41:51 <Samu> how do i test that which nielsm said? order of execution, evaluation order, compiler order?
23:42:24 <peter1138> Why do you need to?
23:43:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhNMJ
23:44:02 <peter1138> But you haven't put two "UpdateStationWaiting() calls in the same execute point.
23:44:08 <peter1138> So it's irrelevant.
23:45:51 <Samu> how do you tell? I don't know where to look
23:49:24 <Samu> speaking of branch, time to delete some
23:54:15 <peter1138> Your calls are in different paths of the if condition, let alone the same execution point.
23:55:13 <peter1138> Ah sequence point is the correct term.
23:55:50 <peter1138> If you had something like "moved = UpdateStationWaiting() + UpdateStationWaiting()"
23:56:09 <peter1138> Then that would be in the same sequence point and the compiler is free to call the functions in whatever order.
23:57:12 <peter1138> Moved doesn't mean it will call UpdateStationWaiting twice...
continue to next day ⏵
