IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-02-13
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00:00:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
01:00:36 <samu> how to make garbage collector less spiky?
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01:31:22 <glx> 400ms is almost imperceptible
01:36:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
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01:49:19 <drac_boy> hi .. as usual have a few things on mind .. but anyway first one: could a single sprite come in two different colours depending on whether its before or after a particular date? I thought I remembered something about "reload the game to see the new sprites" but forgot who that came from grf-wise
01:49:58 <peter1138> No it would be a different sprite.
01:50:26 <peter1138> You're thinking of the old town set that loaded different road graphics depending on the date.
01:52:05 <drac_boy> ah .. yeah that sounds more plausible to my possible memory mixup ty
01:53:32 <drac_boy> hmm dates .. reminds me of ttrs
01:53:42 * drac_boy wonders where that webpage perhaps went to now...
01:53:46 <peter1138> That's probably the one.
01:53:51 <peter1138> Total town renewal set :D
01:57:41 <drac_boy> hmm ttrs site is gone no surprise ... but at least I did find a forum mention of ttrs and reloading it to get the newer roads to show up tho :)
01:58:31 <drac_boy> anyway dunno about you but east canada is snowing quite a but now and blizzard expected tomorrow with many things closed for the morning (even gov offices too...!) too .. should be a fun day :-s
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02:10:21 <drac_boy> next thing, I'm just curious in theory but is it only locomotives that can be railtypes-restricted or you could probably do the same for wagons by some crazy chance too?
02:10:47 <samu> can I suggest changing defaults of opcode/competitor speed?
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08:49:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
08:52:16 <peter1138> Maybe this one will compile on everything :p
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09:01:11 <Flygon> Must have a loud whinny.
09:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: isn't that basically just russian horse?
09:05:38 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not sure of the politics of that :)
09:05:43 <andythenorth> have to be careful with these things
09:05:52 <andythenorth> Russian-sphere-of-influence-Horse?
09:05:59 <andythenorth> dunno where Ukraine fits in that :P
09:06:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQhm
09:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that mainly falls apart at the border between european std gauge and wide gauge
09:07:48 <andythenorth> preventing invasion
09:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that border shifted a bit around WWII
09:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i can tell, it did nothing against an invasion in either direction :p
09:09:49 * andythenorth has been reading books about railroads in war
09:10:14 <andythenorth> no war in OpenTTD :P
09:10:40 <Flygon> Meanwhile Australia can't decide on its gauge because New South Wales ruined everything and reneged on its agreement. >:(
09:10:55 <Flygon> The IDEA was that NSW/VIC/SA would use 1600mm. And Queensland would use 1067mm.
09:11:07 <Flygon> Then the guy in charge in NSW died, got replaced, and the new guy had a real boner for 1435mm.
09:11:46 <Flygon> (Nobody's really mad at Queensland for using a Narrower Gauge, at least. They were at least justified. :v)
09:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure railway gauge is the most heated discussion in australia ever.
09:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it will be THE pivot topic deciding the next election
09:13:13 <Flygon> It's up there with High Speed Rail.
09:13:27 <Flygon> It gets mentioned around Election Season, then dropped quietly.
09:13:40 <Flygon> What're the rules of language in this channel again?
09:13:45 <andythenorth> how's your broadband speed? o_O
09:13:46 <Flygon> How fowl is my language allowed to be?
09:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly not going to be about immigration and concentration camps, or destroying the great barrier reef with coal ships, or something
09:14:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: "english only" :p
09:14:05 <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: Oh boy. The island camps.
09:14:16 <Flygon> Some stuff happened yesterday and this morning regarding that.
09:14:24 <Flygon> But I cbf explaining. You can google. :P
09:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, a very stripped down version of it
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09:15:55 <Flygon> To be stating facts strictly.
09:16:04 <Flygon> The Right Wing Governments here, both State and Federal level.
09:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> something along the lines of "the last time the opposition passed a law against the government was in 1929"
09:16:17 <Flygon> Are getting absolutely flogged due to the shenanigans they're pulling.
09:16:42 <Flygon> The Victorian Elections went almost unbelievably successfully for the Labor (left wing) party.
09:16:56 <Flygon> Everyone expected them to win. Nobody expected them to win by such a ridiculous margin.
09:17:11 <Flygon> We're expecting repeats in the NSW and Federal Elections in the coming months.
09:18:28 <Flygon> But to explain what's gone on in detail is probably well beyond the scope of #openttd <_>
09:32:01 <andythenorth> it gets to 93% then goes backwards :P
09:32:08 <andythenorth> some kind of Zeno paradox
09:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's always the last 90%...
09:32:25 <andythenorth> maybe it's fractal
09:32:40 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQhi
09:32:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll never be 100%
09:32:58 <andythenorth> the level of precision keeps increasing
09:33:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like closing tickets. the more you close, the faster they regrow :p
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10:01:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
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10:53:38 <andythenorth> vehicle variants then
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13:14:41 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7fy
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13:45:46 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7J3
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16:44:00 <_dp_> error: static assertion failed: NUM_CARGO == 32
16:44:08 <_dp_> merging escalated quickly :(
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17:20:59 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7Lm
17:26:01 <_dp_> peter1138, surprising? shouldn't they be just a regular manhattan voronoi cells?
17:26:25 <peter1138> Surprising as in I've never thought about it.
17:26:53 <peter1138> In my head it was just a diamond around each town :p
17:28:13 <peter1138> Voronoi diagrams are not something that I ever learned about.
17:28:19 <_dp_> they're diamond when limited by authority distance
17:28:45 <peter1138> Except when near other towns.
17:30:10 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder how switching it to Euclidean would change things.
17:30:59 <_dp_> well, for authority it won't change much
17:32:07 <_dp_> for cargo payments tho euclidian will be a huge change
17:32:58 <peter1138> I just mean for nearest town purposes.
17:33:02 <peter1138> But yeah, probably not much.
17:33:17 <peter1138> Might affect which town a station gets associated with in some cases, but not much else.
17:49:55 <peter1138> I saw a nice generator that used voronoi stuff but I had no idea how to convert it to C++ :/
18:01:45 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7tI
18:08:17 <_dp_> well, in general voronoi usually means computational geometry
18:08:41 <_dp_> town cache is such a simple case that it's basically voronoi in just a name
18:10:02 <nielsm> I agree it might be a bit overreaching naming everything about it voronoi
18:24:36 <_dp_> btw, have anyone checked that new cache matches old authority calculations?
18:24:54 <_dp_> coz the way it's build doesn't look quite right to me
18:28:10 <nielsm> re-add the original check as "dead" code, and make an assert check in the loop that calculates the overall cache
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18:48:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7qw
18:48:40 <peter1138> Yeah, something like that.
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19:15:39 <peter1138> Oh gods, why did I bother downloading zBase :/
19:16:45 <peter1138> And it's in hg, not git :/
19:17:13 <peter1138> Last touched in 2012, gosh.
19:17:29 <peter1138> I declare it dead. We should remove it ;)
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19:42:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7224: Change: Use selected group as parent when creating a new group. https://git.io/fh7Y4
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19:56:58 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation https://git.io/fh7YS
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20:06:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation https://git.io/fh7Of
20:07:11 <peter1138> I suppose I should test it, as I wanted it :p
20:07:28 <peter1138> And, oh my god, how can this pack of rice contain so many calories :/
20:08:12 <samu> I want to suggest a lower max opcodes
20:08:24 <peter1138> Set a lower max opcodes then.
20:08:27 <samu> 5000 with 15 AIs is still
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20:11:00 <samu> current default is 10000/medium
20:11:10 <samu> equivalent to 2500/veryfast
20:11:50 <samu> the lowest that can be set right now is 5000
20:12:09 <samu> equivalent to 1250/veryfast
20:12:26 <peter1138> What's veryfast medium about?
20:12:47 <samu> competitor speed, which isn't really what I thought it was
20:13:13 <samu> at medium, it executes once every 4 ticks
20:13:17 <peter1138> Ah, a hangover from the old difficult settings.
20:13:58 <peter1138> Hmm, yeah, weird it just makes the AI not do anything for a few ticks.
20:14:47 <samu> and it causes spiky framerate
20:14:54 <peter1138> It suppose that's what it always did.
20:15:10 <nielsm> smaller bits of work more often sounds better to me
20:15:15 <peter1138> Seems like it's kinda irrelevant.
20:15:34 <peter1138> max_opcodes/competitor_speed would spread it out but seems weird too.
20:15:58 <samu> I tried at lower of 500 #opcodes, but it's just too slow
20:16:43 <samu> but it can maintain average of 33 fps with 15 ais 4096x4096
20:16:58 <samu> AIs just don't do much :/
20:17:11 <peter1138> nielsm, I think "leaving things til after 1.9" is only really for something big like NRT that has the potential to cause havoc.
20:17:24 <peter1138> nielsm, 6965 doesn't have that potential, I think.
20:17:52 <peter1138> Well yes, AIs don't do much -> it's faster. Not that surprising.
20:20:10 <samu> or just ditch competitor speed alltogether and let us put the equivalent in opcodes
20:20:59 <peter1138> It's a left over from the old difficulty settings. Hmm.
20:23:34 <samu> current minimum is 5000/veryslow
20:23:47 <peter1138> Isn't that the wrong way around?
20:23:59 <peter1138> More opcodes == faster AI.
20:24:27 <peter1138> Oh, you you mean those values would end up the same.
20:26:34 <samu> and AIs would always be very fast from now on
20:26:45 <samu> execute every tick that is
20:28:56 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder, is there a reason that max_opcodes is not changeable.
20:30:16 <peter1138> Squirrel::Resume(max_ops) seems to code with it being changed.
20:45:26 <michi_cc> samu: Competitor speed might not be as pointless as you think; AIs are suspended if they execute a command, even if they have opcodes left. Less commands per time isn't the same as less opcodes per time.
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20:55:33 <peter1138> michi_cc, ah, of cousre.
20:58:01 <peter1138> Hmm, can GameScripts impersonate companies?
21:09:02 <_dp_> it's almost the only thing they can do :d
21:21:07 <peter1138> Hm, I guess I can't call ScriptObject::DoCommand twice in the API :-)
21:27:06 <frosch123> road construction always joins bridges/tunnels/stations with neighbouring tiles
21:28:02 <frosch123> see ScriptBridge::_BuildBridgeRoad1/2
21:34:37 <peter1138> I see, it's basically a callback function.
21:35:20 <frosch123> it's waiting for c++20 coroutines :p
21:43:54 <samu> LordAro: your AI is very effective
21:43:59 <peter1138> Ok, maybe it would just be better to make the AI make two separate calls.
21:44:19 <samu> doesn't need many opcodes, or speed to have things going
21:44:44 <samu> mine, on the other hand... is tragic
21:45:33 <samu> unless it's only allowed airports, that doesn't need much thinking
21:47:19 <peter1138> Hmm, having to copy enums just for the AI is annoying :/
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22:03:19 <samu> well, just let me input a value lower than 5000 at least
22:04:18 <peter1138> samu, you know how to submit a PR.
22:04:39 <samu> does it really warrant a PR? :o
22:05:05 <peter1138> Everyone has to do PR.
22:05:32 <m3henry> Either a PR or overwrite priveledge is how it works
22:06:04 <peter1138> Nobody it set up to be able to push directly.
22:06:44 <samu> finally the dream of 4096x4096 with 15 AIs running is close
22:07:58 <samu> or i may just need a better cpu
22:07:58 <peter1138> Yeah but it'll take them ages to do anything.
22:09:59 <samu> I'd like to suggest different defaults while I'm at it, but that's asking too much i guess
22:12:56 <samu> besides, I'm not 100% confident, only about 95%
22:12:56 <peter1138> So what could AIs do with vehicle groups?
22:13:08 <peter1138> I know they can create them.
22:13:41 <samu> see a group for each route
22:13:58 <samu> see how good the route performs
22:14:05 <peter1138> Would subgroups be useful?
22:14:13 <peter1138> Currently AIs can't set parent group.
22:14:29 <samu> not sure what's a subgroup
22:14:45 <peter1138> Groups can be arranged to have parents, a heirarchical structure./
22:14:53 <peter1138> So you can create groups within groups.
22:15:03 <peter1138> But this not available to AIs.
22:15:05 <samu> also groups can have their own autoreplace, instead of a global autoreplace
22:15:13 <peter1138> At least, unless I commit this patch.
22:15:55 <samu> i think groups are also lighter in terms of creating lists
22:16:29 <peter1138> Yeah, you can get a smaller list that's already filtered.
22:30:29 <samu> 312 is such a weird number
22:31:39 <samu> what do you say of 312-250000 opcodes?
22:37:09 <peter1138> Ooh, that's good goat's cheese
22:38:04 <peter1138> Weirdly, combined with the cracker it has a definite sweetness, but each by themselves does not...
22:38:09 <samu> by math, the number is 312.5
22:41:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
22:51:38 <peter1138> Ok, so what AI class would a list of company/group colours come under?
22:52:24 <peter1138> The colour list is used by widget codes throughout the game...
22:55:57 <glx> well the list is linked to the company I think
22:56:27 <glx> and groups use colors from the list
22:56:45 <peter1138> The list of colours is defined in gfx_type.h
23:02:15 <peter1138> Colours could potentially be used for something else, maybe.
23:07:36 <samu> is it possible for AIs to get the profit a group is making?
23:08:13 <peter1138> Looks like no at the moment.
23:08:41 <peter1138> Hmm, individual vehicles.
23:08:51 <peter1138> I'll try adding it.
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23:15:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
23:16:54 <peter1138> I wonder, is that a group function or a vehicle function?
23:17:07 <peter1138> It needs to iterate vehicles, rather than groups.
23:19:55 <andythenorth> vehicle variants
23:20:02 <peter1138> Oh, and I forgot about subgroups :/
23:20:17 <peter1138> Although I think subgroups are ignored for display anyway. Hmm.
23:20:24 <peter1138> andythenorth, Yes No
23:28:32 <peter1138> Wait, Minecraft now has foxes...
23:31:46 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
23:32:15 <peter1138> samu, ^ could try that PR.
23:38:34 <glx> hmm but if AI wan't group profit, it can do the addition
23:39:09 <glx> it can get all the vehicles from the group I think
23:39:48 <peter1138> Well that was a waste of my time then.
23:40:11 <peter1138> Although, for last year profit, it's already cached so getting that would be quicker.
23:40:39 <glx> well if the player has access to the sum,AI should too, but if player don't then AI should do itself
23:41:30 <peter1138> Yeah, player can see it in the groups window.
23:41:41 <peter1138> Hmm, also this "current usage %" thing
23:41:53 <glx> so it's ok to give the stats to the AI too then
23:42:20 <peter1138> I better add the current usage stuff :D
23:42:51 <glx> I think the rule is AI and player should get the same infos
23:49:16 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
23:53:34 <peter1138> "/azure-pipelines-ci.yml: Unable to find file /azure-pipelines/templates/ci-git-rebase.yml in repository self using ref refs/pull/7225/merge and commit 902ca7899805ed51b3ef2b8f25018ff5a28b1261: Not Found"
23:56:46 <LordAro> well that's inconvenient
continue to next day ⏵
