IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-02-11
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00:07:02 <LordAro> peter1138: yeah, these discussions have already been had :)
00:07:07 <LordAro> it's a tossup, really
00:07:30 <peter1138> I just see a maze of complex changes in smallvector :/
00:07:31 <LordAro> but that is what i said originally, and i don't want to make m3henry rewrite his PR for a 3rd time :)
00:07:50 <LordAro> it's just the one commit though, and it's not that big
00:09:43 <m3henry> Replacing instances did seem like the logical first choice, but this method in retrospect makes more sense
00:10:59 <peter1138> I looked at the "files changed"
00:11:07 <peter1138> This PR really benefits from looking at the individual commits.
00:12:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhQUv
00:14:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhQUU
00:15:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhQUT
00:16:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhQUk
00:17:51 <peter1138> Ok, editted those comments away :-)
00:23:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhQUm
00:29:12 <peter1138> I thought I'd blown up NRT then.
00:29:21 <LordAro> reflog to the rescue?
00:29:39 <peter1138> All the AIs were crashing. Turned out I hadn't compiled it, so the AI compat stuff was there but invalid for the version running :p
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00:55:14 <drac_boy> just had to ask if anyone recall the name of a tt-forums similar forum but for deutsche speakers? not sure why I can't seem to find it again :-s
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01:19:21 <drac_boy> hmm thanks..found the csd freight wagons I was looking for .. seem that tycoonez.com still wouldn't resolve to any webhost
01:31:54 <peter1138> samu, that may be enough to work, but I don't have a big savegame to test. It doesn't affect loading existing saves, at least.
01:40:28 <samu> well, start 15 ludiai afterfix's
01:40:40 <samu> with 5000 road vehs and 5000 aircraft each
01:40:52 <samu> or wait, i may have given a save to you already
01:42:14 <drac_boy> 0_0 ... thats way too many for me to ever track at all :-|
01:42:17 <peter1138> Nah, I've gone to bed now.
02:15:24 <drac_boy> hm can't think of anything good to sort out on irc now so...meh..bye :->
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07:48:56 <peter1138> ~Error: failed loading savegame: Order index 64000 out of range (64000)
07:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i still have a slight problem with the meandering randomness, where in some cases it gets overzealous and turns into DFS mode for a while
07:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> resulting in silly zigzag lines
07:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and on smoother maps we need wider and less branch-y rivers
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08:46:39 <peter1138> Hmm, how can I tell if we're currently loading a savegame?
08:54:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
09:16:55 <peter1138> Argh, bloody monitor
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09:20:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m. https://git.io/fhQLh
09:33:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 opened issue #7221: Version information is not applied on finger.openttd.org https://git.io/fhQtW
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10:03:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version? https://git.io/fhQtj
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11:09:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQmJ
11:37:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
11:40:13 <peter1138> I was, had a meeting, then got distracted, oops.
11:40:27 <peter1138> "waiting for a compile" mmhmm
11:41:58 <andythenorth> time for eggs soon
11:49:49 <peter1138> I had an egg & 'bacon' muffin.
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11:52:03 <peter1138> Hello dragonhorseboy
11:53:48 <drac_boy> hi..as usual I just had to wonder but are planes still always either passenger/mail or all-mail .... no all-passenger for some reason, right?
12:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: turns out you can't legally mount seats in the baggage area
12:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: but if you make a NewGRF, you're free to set the mail capacity to 0
12:11:55 <drac_boy> eddi well you're not suppose to fly 100+ cattle on a plane either but the refit window lets you do that tho ;)
12:12:42 * drac_boy still remembers doing that a few silly times in ttdx (quite a while before I knew about the patch which meant new planes tho)
12:12:53 <drac_boy> and hmm good thought, zero mail
12:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i did oil zeppelins once
12:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody on this internet seems to have my "read_hpet" performance problem... :/
12:29:01 <drac_boy> well peter, as a footnote coal planes actually is in the russia plane grf .. 1 or 2 huge planes with like a 300-400 tonnes capacity
12:29:29 <drac_boy> its been a very long time I had that grf I seem to forgot where it was sourced from but ah :)
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12:49:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m. https://git.io/fhQOs
13:02:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m. https://git.io/fhQO8
13:04:28 <drac_boy> hmm is that like a map-wide cap? for a silly moment there I was thinking 'who orders one train to stop at a balizzion stations?'
13:05:04 <peter1138> It's not map related...
13:05:08 <peter1138> But it is game-wide, yes.
13:06:25 <peter1138> The order limit is reachable if you have lots of AIs not using shared orders :-)
13:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "deleting kernel-default" is a strange message to watch in the package manage
13:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have multi-kernel enabled and clicked uninstall on some older versions :p
13:08:28 <peter1138> multi-kernel enabled... you're not using the one-true Linux OS then. (Debian)
13:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i'm by now desperate enough to try 5.0-rc2
13:09:15 <peter1138> How's the rivers going, though?
13:09:21 <peter1138> It looks good in... some cases.
13:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and mesa 19.0.0-rc2
13:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i updated it earlier today with some tweaks
13:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> still some odd cases
13:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause> 3 roads to take here: 1) clean up the code, 2) tweak the randomness in the priority queue, 3) consider different flow amount calculations and thresholds
13:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but... destroying my system right now..
13:13:14 <drac_boy> mesa? hmm what graphic thing you working on now?
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13:19:16 <andythenorth> I did something regrettable with sliding door sprites on EMUs :P
13:19:26 <andythenorth> I will regret this level of detail
13:20:16 <peter1138> Maybe it needs persistent storage.
13:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> aren't the regretworthy things the best things, according to some philosophies?
13:21:33 <andythenorth> peter1138: will it resolve sprites faster with persistent storage?
13:24:21 <peter1138> If you can use it as a cache and not have to query lots of vars every time, sure.
13:27:50 <drac_boy> hmm is it just me having a wisful thought or can you actually ensure a certain industry only works on/adjacent canal tiles? (versus the ocean tile)
13:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, my performance seems a bit better so far, but far from great
13:33:15 <andythenorth> FWIW, I would cache sprite stuff if there was storage
13:33:55 <andythenorth> but eh seems like faff
13:36:55 <peter1138> Ideally we would cache it :p
13:37:27 <peter1138> But we'd need to know when to dirty the cache.
13:37:42 <peter1138> e.g. steam train animation == no cache
13:42:16 <Eddi|zuHause> aw, i think it's not really improved
13:46:14 <andythenorth> animation is the killer
13:46:34 <andythenorth> animation is just a set of cached frames
13:46:54 <andythenorth> we're not having blue wheels in game month June and red wheels in game month July
13:47:13 <peter1138> Each frame is a separate result.
13:47:16 <andythenorth> do people measure speed and stuff?
13:47:34 <andythenorth> so cache a list of results?
13:47:38 <andythenorth> no animation, list is length 1?
13:48:13 <andythenorth> on the other hand, imagine the BAD FEATURES from persistent storage
13:48:14 <peter1138> Frame animation could be done by returning a spriteset with > 8 images, I suppose.
13:48:39 <peter1138> But no point as you have to calculate it every frame anyway
13:49:31 <andythenorth> we can't just cycle through results then :D
13:51:15 <andythenorth> I haven't bothered animating the steam engines
13:51:29 <andythenorth> probably matters a lot more in higher res sprites
13:52:21 <andythenorth> cache unless animated?
13:52:29 <andythenorth> probably gets 98% of newgrfs covered
13:52:38 <andythenorth> do we know this is even slow? :P
13:52:59 <drac_boy> andy yeah a 8bit sprite only has like 2 or few frames for simple siderod but if you're doing 32bit it does indeed get tricky with the very high details (even crossrods if thats ever the case)
13:53:12 <drac_boy> just my own opinion :)
13:53:46 <peter1138> drac_boy, please don't confuse bit with bpp, and 32bpp with extra zoom.
13:54:04 <peter1138> drac_boy, extra zoom at 8bpp does, of course, warrant more detail just as much as extra zoom at 32bpp.
13:57:19 <peter1138> "8 bit" graphics refers to the type of graphics produced by 8 bit computers and consoles of the 80s, where memory was vastly more limited. The idea of using 8bpp in the 8 bit era was out of the question.
13:57:55 <peter1138> (and most hardware couldn't do it, anyway)
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15:09:03 <drac_boy> hm think I'll just simply try detect any water in first place instead..ah well..lets see whats next
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15:42:24 <Eddi|zuHause> oh weather is great
15:44:02 <peter1138> You've gone from rivers to full on weather simulation? ;-)
16:04:38 <nielsm> recent news have scientists claiming they trained bees to solve arithmetic problems with small integers... based on their data it sounds like one bee can handle about 3 bits worth of information, so I propose we now call a 3-bit quantity a 'beet'
16:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> being able to count to seven has been a property observed in many animals
16:06:15 <drac_boy> what comes after seven? zero?
16:17:07 <drac_boy> anyway have fun with bees .. I need to go out for today tho
16:18:41 <andythenorth> I can't have more coffee
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16:27:24 <samu> im gonna test the 16.7 million orders
16:27:44 <andythenorth> Samu is regressions expert :P
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16:57:42 <peter1138> That savegame was horribly slow though, so it's not exactly much use :p
17:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> horribly slow is my second name
17:18:44 <andythenorth> I thought it was BFS? :|
17:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> beyond fucking slow?
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17:41:50 <samu> i suspect town voronoi thing would speed up many AIs
17:41:57 <samu> if it ever gets implemented
17:42:48 <samu> calculate closest town is often used
17:44:04 <samu> one other thing I notice that gets slower is creating list of vehicles
17:44:35 <samu> list vehicles with x order in schedule, usually
17:45:10 <samu> initially it's fast, but as more and more vehicles get added into the world, it becomes heavy
17:45:23 <nielsm> are these also the AIs that do not use shared orders?
17:45:43 <samu> no, it's not due to that
17:46:07 <samu> it's more of a decision issue, to know whether to add or remove vehicles to routes
17:46:42 <nielsm> that's not what I was talking about
17:47:06 <nielsm> it might be slow if there are many unique orders lists
17:47:30 <nielsm> versus fewer unique orders lists shared among the same number of vehicles
17:47:54 <nielsm> since finding all orders involving a particular stations would involve visiting all orders lists
17:48:53 <samu> but im not too sure if it even looks wether orders are shared
17:48:58 <nielsm> you should probably be badgering AI authors to fix their code so it uses shared orders
17:49:03 <samu> it goes through all vehicles
17:50:32 <samu> nop, doesn't care about shared orders
17:57:56 <samu> how to remove something from bananas?
17:58:49 <samu> I wanna remove Improved Oil Rig Layout
17:58:58 <samu> it's no longer needed for 1.9.0
18:01:55 <samu> Maximum OpenTTD version doesn't let me chose 1.8.0
18:02:11 <samu> can i use Custom? then set 1.8.0 manually? would that work?
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18:06:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 opened issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work: ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 https://git.io/fhQc1
18:07:12 <samu> where do i report banana issues?
18:07:39 <samu> Maximum OpenTTD Version: Invalid value.
18:07:47 <samu> doesn't let me pick Custom with 1.8.0
18:15:01 <samu> starting 15 ship ais, to quickly fill 64000 orders
18:15:13 <LordAro> so much for the issue template
18:17:09 <samu> maybe a bit of my own AI too, cus no shared orders
18:21:01 <samu> meh can only start 14 on this version
18:23:58 <nielsm> that issue is a dupe of an existing isn't it
18:26:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQCL
18:28:59 <samu> strange, random deviation is being added
18:30:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQCs
18:43:34 <peter1138> If you tested an older version, it may just have set your start_date to 1.
18:44:05 <samu> no, it's calling from ScriptConfig instead of AIConfig
18:46:31 <samu> MakeNewSettingsLive is called
18:46:35 <samu> _settings_game.ai_config[c] = new AIConfig(_settings_newgame.ai_config[c]);
18:46:57 <samu> it calls void ScriptConfig::AddRandomDeviation()
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18:47:17 <samu> that's not the random deviation it should be calling
18:47:42 <glx> this function is surcharged by AIConfig
18:53:44 <samu> doesn't even get through it
18:56:53 <nielsm> glx: do you mean overridden?
18:57:16 <glx> ah yes overridden is the right term
18:57:52 <peter1138> No other 1.9.0-beta2 servers yet.
18:58:28 <samu> I had a reason to be suspicious about doing it in that place
18:59:04 <peter1138> MakeNewSettingsLive doesn't exist.
18:59:20 <peter1138> MakeNewgameSettingsLive does.
18:59:52 <peter1138> That deals with AIConfig, so there's no reason it'll be wrong.
19:00:21 <peter1138> Under what conditions?
19:00:32 <samu> select an ai for the slot
19:01:07 <peter1138> No deviation for me.
19:01:12 <glx> but start_date won't be randomised
19:02:16 <glx> you can put some printf in both AddRandomDeviation
19:03:47 <glx> ha but it's the constructor
19:05:15 <glx> it's the copy constructor
19:05:34 <glx> of course it calls the base AddRandomDeviation
19:06:06 <glx> you need to take care of that in AIConfig::AIConfig()
19:06:35 <glx> ScriptConfig::ScriptConfig(const ScriptConfig *config) calls this->AddRandomDeviation();
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19:07:40 <glx> but AIConfig(const AIConfig *config) : ScriptConfig(config) {}
19:08:21 <peter1138> I think I can see how to do it :-)
19:08:32 <samu> doesn't happen with random ai because for some reason, there is no list of settings yet
19:08:49 <glx> not weird, works as intended ;)
19:08:59 <samu> it should have start_date
19:10:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random. https://git.io/fhQWU
19:11:30 <peter1138> Probably needs a comment, but test it please ;)
19:12:06 <peter1138> I was thinking it'd be difficult because start_date would already be deviated, but of course we have access to the original.
19:14:04 <glx> indeed it's the copy construtor, we have the original :)
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19:28:07 <peter1138> Bah, it's so hard to fit platforms into towns :/
19:35:12 <andythenorth> kinda the point though :)
19:35:17 <andythenorth> underground stations? o_O
19:36:22 <samu> it's still using the scriptconfig random deviation
19:38:52 <peter1138> Yes, it is using it but resetting the start_date afterwards.
19:40:57 <samu> it was random deviated to 0, I wonder if it wasn't
19:41:09 <peter1138> orig 0, ours 56, now 0
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19:44:16 <samu> retesting just to make sure
19:44:35 <peter1138> Hmm, should I move try moving the constructor to ai_config.cpp instead, to avoid leaving this implementation detail in the header?
19:45:33 <supermop_work_> yo andythenorth
19:46:22 <supermop_work_> when am i supposed to use NG DMU?
19:46:44 <andythenorth> when you want to pretend you're on honeymoon in Corsica?
19:46:51 <supermop_work_> remote hotels produce too many people
19:47:11 <supermop_work_> (seems remote hotels produce more than non-remote)
19:47:40 <andythenorth> too many hotels what? :P
19:47:49 * andythenorth testing pax train moneymaking
19:48:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random. https://git.io/fhQWU
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19:48:32 <peter1138> Bit larger but I think it's nicer that way.
19:49:47 <andythenorth> there are some 1 tile distant-join bits, catchment covers whole town
19:50:12 <andythenorth> add walkability :P
19:50:12 <peter1138> I prefer not to station-spread-cheat ;(
19:50:29 <peter1138> Maybe George's bug would help that, heh.
19:50:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random. https://git.io/fhQla
19:50:44 <peter1138> I have cargodist on so I just setup a bus network in town, but... busy busy!
19:51:56 <andythenorth> actually one thing that would be really helpful is configurable catchment size
19:52:03 <andythenorth> or even newgrf catchments :o
19:52:26 <andythenorth> 8 tile rail station catchments
19:52:42 <peter1138> Let's say... stations should specificy a catchment size, and also have a different cost.
19:52:57 <peter1138> Build cost and maintenance cost.
19:53:22 <peter1138> So you could build an expensive station and have it catch a larger area.
19:53:25 <andythenorth> it would also help the problem of fitting enough stations around industries
19:53:44 <andythenorth> so stations in town are hard because there's no gap
19:54:40 <peter1138> Hmm, so if we make it so that catchment size depends on each part...
19:54:44 <peter1138> Like George thought...
19:54:46 <andythenorth> and industries end up surrounded by station, with industry in the middle
19:55:05 <andythenorth> both situations are kind irritating
19:55:06 <peter1138> Otherwise you would only need one piece of catchment-extending station, and the rest could be shit cheap stuff.
19:55:18 <andythenorth> I cheat for towns, but cheating for industries get confusing
19:55:45 <andythenorth> if I have multiple stations adjacent, I end up bulldozing the wrong one sometimes :P
19:55:59 <andythenorth> but multiple stations are needed to see waiting cargo sprites
19:56:04 <andythenorth> and because cdist is broken
19:56:27 <peter1138> Didn't we have a plan for that? :/
19:56:47 <andythenorth> was it state machine?
19:57:03 <andythenorth> something about stations-are-just-new-objects?
19:57:25 <andythenorth> hmm just one game of tanks, then back to software
19:58:21 <peter1138> No, nothing stupid.
19:59:58 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random. https://git.io/fhQWU
20:00:28 <peter1138> Should I have spaghetti or wholewheat fusilli?
20:00:46 <peter1138> ^ That probably just missed the nightly :p
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20:02:10 <peter1138> Pasta to go with bolognese, so spaghetti is kinda the norm, but...
20:17:18 <andythenorth> all kinds are valid
20:24:57 <supermop_work_> peter1138: i did penne with arrabiata
20:25:14 <supermop_work_> but my arrabiata sauce is closer to a puttanesca
20:28:05 <andythenorth> supermop_work_: used that railcar yet?
20:28:22 <andythenorth> also what version are you playing? Alpha 4 has horrible run costs
20:28:44 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7168: Fix: CompanyEconomy documentation https://git.io/fhSgV
20:32:48 <peter1138> I'm playing 1.9.0-beta2 ;)
20:33:29 <peter1138> Someone joined my server.
20:37:11 <supermop_work_> started in 85 instead of 50
20:37:39 <supermop_work_> waiting for enough cash to buy some 225s
20:38:15 <supermop_work_> i have one NG train taking apples to a cider press
20:38:50 <supermop_work_> what railfreight sector was 'cider apples'?
20:39:11 <supermop_work_> i have it as grey and dark blue at the moment
20:40:32 <andythenorth> supermop_work_: probably orange and orange
20:40:36 <andythenorth> ^ actual RL colours
20:45:42 <andythenorth> peter1138: so also station tiles that improve rating :P
20:46:24 <andythenorth> probably about as pointless as brake vans tbh
20:46:34 <andythenorth> you either build those tiles everywhere, or not at all :P
20:46:39 <andythenorth> no gameplay value
20:48:21 <peter1138> Currently that describes all of newstations :p
20:52:57 <andythenorth> ability to route to specific platform(s)
20:53:14 <andythenorth> maybe by embedding a waypoint
21:07:35 <peter1138> So dense and heavy.
21:09:30 <andythenorth> rice and lamb and lettuce
21:09:44 <peter1138> Had some corn on the cob as well.
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21:21:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQ4w
21:23:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQ4o
21:25:54 <LordAro> didn't even know about #6619
21:27:00 <peter1138> andythenorth probably closed it
21:27:29 <glx> but it should since a duplicate has been fixed
21:31:07 <andythenorth> I should close everything
21:37:36 <peter1138> Approve everything.
21:37:49 <peter1138> So guys, NRT AI interface?
21:37:58 <peter1138> Do I need to split road and tram up?
21:41:32 <peter1138> That was a suggestion from frosch123
21:41:46 <peter1138> I'm not sure if it was a suggestion or a "this needs to happen"
21:42:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQ4b
21:42:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 closed issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQc1
21:42:51 <frosch123> it's the only idea i came up with
21:43:17 <frosch123> (except sub-sub-sub-sub-vehicle-types :p)
21:43:31 <peter1138> What I've done so far has road type and road sub type exposed.
21:43:48 <peter1138> So it'll work, but...
21:44:46 <peter1138> Splitting them means duplicating a ton of stuff elsewhere, bridges for example.
21:45:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #6619: Games freezes at start-up if -n command line option is used. https://git.io/fhQ4N
21:45:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #6619: Games freezes at start-up if -n command line option is used. https://git.io/fhQ4x
21:50:57 <frosch123> is there any ai author still active?
21:51:04 <DorpsGek> frosch123: zuu was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 40 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Zuu> So any data that is slow to determine for saving has to be pre-cached already before Save() is called. Load is easier, just save the data to this._save and handle it in Start() and you are good.
21:51:30 <frosch123> there is wormnest, no idea whether still active
21:55:21 <frosch123> when was the last update to darloro?
21:55:57 <LordAro> i checked recently actually
21:56:04 <LordAro> turns out i did some stuff only 3 years ago!
21:56:32 <frosch123> sounds like when i check my ottd work :p
22:16:14 <peter1138> LordAro, so what makes sense from your perspective?
22:20:55 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fhQB6
22:23:42 <frosch123> one could also throw out tramtypes and make "tram" a single special roadtype
22:24:15 <LordAro> so, NRT essentially makes roads & tram tracks as GRF-controllable as railtypes, right? Is there any particular reason why the road interface couldn't mirror the rail interface?
22:24:53 <peter1138> currently road types are split into road and tram
22:24:53 <frosch123> LordAro: road and tram are constructed independently
22:25:27 <peter1138> but the internal api is not split
22:25:43 <peter1138> internally it is two parameters, road/tram and subtype./
22:26:05 <LordAro> is there a particular reason that was done?
22:26:59 <frosch123> LordAro: what part do you mean?
22:27:17 <frosch123> you can have road and tram on the same tile
22:27:22 <frosch123> they are independent
22:28:03 <frosch123> roadvehicles and trams also move differently when reversing
22:28:24 <frosch123> in theory subtypes can be used to model different poweredness
22:28:37 <frosch123> but actually roadtypes are used to model eye candy
22:28:43 <frosch123> while tramtypes are not used at all
22:28:52 <frosch123> (except to hide catenary for andy)
22:29:45 <frosch123> peter1138: that's my number one reason why i abandoned nrt 2/3? years ago. tramtypes are just pointless
22:30:34 <frosch123> when there is road present, tramtypes affect only a few pixels on the tile
22:31:31 <peter1138> Maybe there's more now than 2/3 years ago.
22:32:01 <frosch123> are there tramtypes?
22:32:33 <frosch123> that kind of surprises me :p
22:32:46 <peter1138> It is, of course, mostly eyecandy and speed limits.
22:33:17 <peter1138> So yeah, to say it's unused is not quite fiar.
22:34:18 <andythenorth> I did start with a patch that hid catenary
22:34:21 <frosch123> so, stuff happened last year :p
22:34:35 <frosch123> i stopped forum a year ago, because nothing was happening :)
22:34:39 <andythenorth> then we talked ourselves into NRT :P
22:34:49 <peter1138> Error: Assertion failed at line 193 of /home/petern/Projects/OpenTTD/src/road.h: rtid.IsValid()
22:34:53 <peter1138> Well, that's not so good :p
22:37:33 <peter1138> There's more enough newgrfs about that changing how it works now is going to annoy people.
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23:01:26 <Wormnest> frosch123: I consider myself still active only the last thing I did was a year ago :)
23:03:00 <supermop_work_> frosch123: i certainly used tramtypes
23:03:16 <andythenorth> I will use tramtypes
23:03:23 <andythenorth> I didn't yet because stuff and things
23:03:35 <frosch123> supermop_work_: i checked forums, i found a tramtype grf from last month
23:03:46 <frosch123> so, to me tramtype grfs are a new thing
23:04:12 <supermop_work_> unspooled has powered and unpowered tracks
23:04:24 <supermop_work_> and powered and unpowered roads
23:04:32 <andythenorth> tram, electrified tram, industrial railway (feldbahn), electrified industrial railway
23:04:35 <andythenorth> HEQS rides again!
23:04:38 <supermop_work_> and both of various speeds
23:04:50 <peter1138> And we even fixed some bugs ;p
23:04:56 * andythenorth wonders if funicular will work :P
23:05:20 <samu> how is a #opcode calculated?
23:06:11 <supermop_work_> i was using tramtypes a year+ ago
23:06:24 <samu> i've been wondering if #opcodes could be a lower value, lower than 5000
23:06:29 <supermop_work_> i guess people really didn't give a shit
23:07:10 <peter1138> I think I'm outnumbered on 1.9 though
23:07:13 <samu> I found that pathfinding is usually limited by competitor speed rather than #opcodes
23:09:22 <LordAro> build it and they will come
23:09:59 <andythenorth> TB did mention maybe releasing more often
23:10:36 <andythenorth> in 0.6.x days releases seemed....frequent
23:10:48 <samu> gonna edit the lower limit of #opcodes, wanna experiment with it
23:11:34 <frosch123> 1 branch per year was started with 0.6
23:11:50 <frosch123> 0.5 and 0.4 took longer
23:12:12 <frosch123> also, the changelog is not that long that it makes sense to branch more often
23:12:22 <frosch123> unless you want to abandon branching and just release from master
23:16:54 <supermop_work_> peter1138: my main motivation in trying to figure out how to make a NRT grf was to try to get a critical mass of users/testers, and help encourage NRT moving forward
23:18:07 <frosch123> apparently you succeeded :)
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23:28:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
23:32:16 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Moth-Tolias commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fhQ0O
23:33:12 <samu> with very fast build speed
23:37:48 <samu> not bad, but seems that the AIs are mostly asleep
23:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> ^ That probably just missed the nightly :p <-- i thought the nightly is forked like an hour earlier now?
23:40:52 <peter1138> Hmm, nope, it made it.
23:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> peter1138: so also station tiles that improve rating :P <-- not necessarily "improve rating" but "reduce rating decay"?
23:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> together with a rating rework so it is less of a "have always a train waiting" and instead a "transport all cargo"
continue to next day ⏵
