IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-12-06
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10:01:06 <SpComb> good thing that it has (official) in the title to differentiate it from all the non-official ones
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10:16:38 <orudge> SpComb: yes, unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that it seems
10:16:52 <orudge> I have e-mailed the 'author' of that but no response
10:24:54 <LordAro> what was the reason microsoft wouldn't remove it?
10:25:56 <orudge> "Without an official government trademark registration, we can't adequately assess your trademark rights. "
10:26:02 <orudge> "We recommend you contact trademark counsel for more information or reach out to the content creator directly."
10:26:21 <orudge> Since OpenTTD is GPL, they can sell it
10:51:04 <planetmaker> what burocratic effort is it to setup an OpenTTD foundation?
10:51:41 <planetmaker> and what cost is a trademark registration?
10:52:43 <planetmaker> and Microsoft of course is a ... whimp. Of course they could. It's their store and they can do and cease doing whatever they want. They just don't want
10:52:57 <orudge> Probably a reasonable effort (depends where you do it, I suppose), and in the hundreds of pounds/euros range I think
10:53:10 <planetmaker> not worth it, I guess
12:20:18 <Sacro> But when I have kids, they'll be infringing copyright
12:21:59 <orudge> Could be an authorised reproduction
12:22:04 <orudge> You'll need to check the licence agreement
12:23:49 <peter1138> orudge, cool that it is on there now :D
12:24:27 <peter1138> Searching for "OpenTTD" doesn't return it, though :(
12:25:00 <orudge> I initially published it as 'secret' so I could make sure it actually works!
12:25:11 <orudge> I've submitted an update now which should make it public
12:25:18 <orudge> and also adds back in an x86 version if anybody still uses that
12:26:18 <peter1138> Ooh I have a Windows 10 laptop here...
12:27:01 <SpComb> I could try playing it instead of Transport Fever - last beta patch game crashed when autosaving and I lost 10min of work, stopped playing that game
12:27:52 <orudge> I am still slowly attempting to work on a UWP version (which would allow deployment on ARM, Xbox, tablets, etc, although whether it would play nicely there is another matter!) - looking at sticking in DirectWrite for font stuff instead of freetype (based on michi_cc's Win32-based PR), and Direct2D instead of GDI, because there is no GDI.
12:30:01 <peter1138> Mmm, replacing GDI with DirectSomething is probably a good idea anyway.
12:30:04 <peter1138> GDI is well obsolete :p
12:30:26 <orudge> It's somewhat of a learning project for me, but time is as ever the challenge
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19:17:46 <Wolf01> So, lifechat 3000 headphones work flawlessly with my phone, good to know
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21:03:09 <PNDA> Hi, is this a good place to talk about NML?
21:06:54 <PNDA> Ok, because I am trying to maybe integrate Stations into NML. I have got a few problems with that. Currently with defining the name of a station
21:07:15 <andythenorth> interesting move :)
21:07:47 <PNDA> well, for one string in a item property, it outputs a sprite 6 and sprite 7, and sprite 6 is not understandable
21:08:15 <PNDA> it gives it 2 FF and a \wx0000 and a \wxC500
21:08:27 <andythenorth> have you got a fork?
21:09:17 <andythenorth> ok so answers here can be slow :)
21:09:28 <andythenorth> stations were left out of nml because they're a PITA
21:09:34 <andythenorth> but it is a wanted feature
21:10:39 <PNDA> It is very wanted, I have tried using m4NFO, and its really strange to use. NFO is just nothing for me with these Bytes
21:11:45 <nielsm> if what you have is a PITA, consider making kebab
21:11:54 <nielsm> I'm not sure where I'm going with this
21:13:38 <andythenorth> PNDA you probably need frosch or pl*netmaker
21:13:47 <andythenorth> not many other people can comment on nml internals currently
21:13:55 <andythenorth> I can do basic maintenance, but not extend stations :P
21:14:50 <PNDA> 6 * 10 00 04 \b1 01 FF \wx0000 FF \wxC500
21:14:50 <PNDA> 7 * 16 04 04 FF 01 \wxC500 "Station_1" 00
21:15:01 <PNDA> That is the Station Code that NML has managed to output
21:15:18 <PNDA> I just wanted to add this
21:17:34 <frosch123> that action 0 makes no sense
21:18:13 <PNDA> Yeah, sprite 6 is currently the only thing really not working. It gives a Fatal Error
21:19:34 <frosch123> what is your actual question?
21:19:49 <PNDA> If anyone here has a Idea why it is causing that issue
21:19:50 <frosch123> the action 4 defines the name for station id 0
21:19:55 <frosch123> what is the action 0 supposed to do?
21:20:22 <frosch123> what is your input nml?
21:21:22 <frosch123> ok, in that case it should not create a aciton 0 at all
21:21:42 <nielsm> if I were to implement NML support for stations I would probably begin with making a prototype that can only produce a limited subset of possible station definitions, but does output valid NFO/GRF
21:21:57 <PNDA> Which is literally what I am trying to do
21:22:12 <nielsm> your action 0 is missiogn prop 8 first of all
21:22:30 <frosch123> let's see how vehicles do it
21:22:45 <PNDA> yes, it should look something like this: 04 04 FF 01 01 C5 "Empty Platform" 00 (As of m4nfo)
21:23:40 <frosch123> that's the action 4
21:23:51 <frosch123> that one is generated correctly by your nml
21:24:05 <PNDA> Well I took the 'name' property from vehicles at first, but when using the same one as with Houses, it works fine, and the action 4 does not give any errors
21:24:14 <PNDA> And yes, I just realised that was the wrong nfo I sent
21:24:46 <PNDA> This is a action0 as of m4nfo: 9 * 14 00 04 03 01 01 08 "ASDP" 0B 02 11 00
21:25:04 <frosch123> 'name' : {'num': -1, 'string': None}, <- that's from the nml vehicle code
21:25:54 <PNDA> yes, which did not work for 0x04, I edited the one from houses which at the end looks like this: {'size': 2, 'num': 0xFF, 'string': 0xC5}
21:26:11 <frosch123> it needs to be "-1" and no size to not output an action0
21:27:10 <PNDA> Well I can't change it to "-1", that would give out a Internal error
21:27:10 <frosch123> 'station_name': { 'num':-1, 'string': ???},
21:27:17 <frosch123> i am not yet sure how 'string' is used
21:27:38 <frosch123> PNDA: but "-1" is correct :p
21:27:52 <frosch123> everything else causes your problem with the sprite 6
21:27:59 <PNDA> I know, I removed num not size, stupid one
21:29:30 <frosch123> s/know/figured it out/ ?
21:35:12 <PNDA> I am sorry for leaving, I have to go now. Goodbye
21:35:25 <orudge> michi_cc: I had forgotten about that, actually. That may work.
21:36:14 <michi_cc> No idea if OpenGL is acceptable for UWP, but it could at least be used as a basis for using DirectX instead.
21:36:34 <orudge> Hm, seems there is no OpenGL support in UWP
21:36:45 <orudge> but may be of interest anyway
21:37:28 <michi_cc> BTW, anybody wants to write a Linux or OSX video driver for it?
21:38:49 <nielsm> I think I've suggested it before, but what about a replacement blitter too that produces a sprite (and other commands) list instead and has the gpu render each sprite as a textured quad
21:39:13 <nielsm> and possibly take advantage of Z buffer as replacement for sprite sorting
21:40:14 <michi_cc> That would be my next step, but replicating everything the current blitters do isn't that simple (i.e. stuff like remapping screen rects).
21:43:46 <nielsm> remapping... as in moved a window since previous frame?
21:43:59 <michi_cc> No, as in applying a colour remap to the screen.
21:44:41 <nielsm> or recoloring 32 bpp sprites?
21:44:43 <michi_cc> no, mostly the grey newspaper.
21:44:57 <michi_cc> Palette animation is already in the branch.
21:46:08 <nielsm> newspaper is done as render viewport, then postprocess it to greyscale?
21:46:54 <nielsm> right, so you'd have to change it to render viewport (with greyscale map) or similar
21:47:16 <frosch123> it's also used for "glass" effects in the regular viewport
21:48:19 <frosch123> anyway, don't 32bpp blitters replace all of that with alpha?
21:48:20 <michi_cc> The main problem with a sprite "blitter" is that everything assumes a persistent screen (including possibly NewGRFs), which is exactly what 3D graphics don't do.
21:49:08 <michi_cc> Conceptually, replicating this with render-to-texture and several framebuffers is possible, it just has to be fast enough to be worthwhile.
22:29:27 <andythenorth> oof supplies remains frustrating with cdist
22:29:49 <andythenorth> always large quantiities undelivered
22:30:09 <andythenorth> and I can't persuade cdist to route it across many destinations
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