IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-10-05
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01:08:01 <yellyFish> didn't think of that. i found one newgrf that matches
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01:58:45 <Samu> the variable days_in_transit in GetTransportedGoodsIncome
01:59:36 <Samu> the real days in transit is that value * 2.5
02:02:26 <Samu> Early Delivery Time (days) and Late Delivery Time (days) are all to be *2.5
02:08:27 <Samu> Distance is measured between the name-labeled tiles of the stations, not from the industries or by vehicle distance traveled. It is computed by adding the differences in x and y tiles (manhattan distance), not straight-line distance.
02:18:13 <Samu> for every 185 ticks, the transported cargo ages and transit_days++ happens
02:18:28 <Samu> so misleading to call it transit_days
02:26:01 <Samu> let me think. I have 2 trains transporting the same cargo from the same origin at O(0,0). Train A goes from O(0,0) to A(25,25). Train B goes from O(0,0) to B(50,0).
02:26:48 <Samu> Train A takes 30 days to travel. Train B takes 20 days to travel.
02:27:45 <Samu> How to make the profit of Train B to match that of Train A over the same period of time?
02:34:08 <Samu> Money GetTransportedGoodsIncome(uint num_pieces, uint dist, byte transit_days, CargoID cargo_type)
02:34:53 <Samu> with DistanceManhattan, uint dist = 50
02:35:59 <Samu> transit_days is, for Train A, 30/2.5 = 12
02:36:15 <Samu> transit_days is, for Train B, 20/2.5 = 8
02:36:33 <Samu> pieces, let's assume 30 pieces
02:41:41 <Samu> assuming the cargo value didn't decay for both trains, the income per delivery is 30 * 50 = 1500
02:44:57 <Samu> per year, Train A would make 1500 * 365 / 30 = 18250
02:45:27 <Samu> per year, Train B would make 1500 * 365 / 20 = 27375
02:46:19 <Samu> the goal is to make Train B profit the same as Train A
02:46:58 <ST2> how can you make 1500 * 365 / 20
02:47:28 <Samu> that is what I'm trying to come up with
02:48:08 <ST2> really?! notice the "365 / 30" and "365 / 20"
02:48:42 <Samu> the distance has to be measured differently
02:49:22 <ST2> so, why payements must be the same?
02:50:23 <ST2> oh well, you may continue ^^
02:52:39 <Samu> 30 * 50 * 365 / 30 = 30 * x * 365 / 20
02:56:47 <ST2> you're really bad at math
03:00:10 <ST2> wait, you were really not getting there?! or was a rethorical question?
03:00:35 <ST2> man, I used my computer calculator for it
03:00:35 <Samu> 33.3333 is the value I'm looking for :)
03:02:14 <Samu> looks like the value I was expecting (37.5) was wrong
03:02:21 <ST2> man, I used my computer calculator for it
03:02:33 <Samu> i'm thinking, not spamming
03:02:41 <ST2> is that a hard question for you?
03:02:57 <ST2> (oh crap, made another question :|)
03:03:28 <ST2> (window logo key + R) -> calc
03:05:29 <Samu> Must come up with a formula that makes distance from O to A = 50 and distance from O to B = 33.3333
03:05:57 <ST2> and I just gave you a way to YOUR computer calculator
03:06:24 <ST2> and O (letter) is not 0 (number)
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03:08:46 <Samu> O to A = 33.333 and O to B = 50
03:08:53 <ST2> will take a while till you cover the whole alphabet
03:10:07 <Samu> actually i made various mistakes already, grr :(
03:13:15 <Samu> Train A goes from O(0,0) to A(50,0) and takes 30 days. Train B goes from O(0,0) to B(25,25) and takes 20 days.
03:13:58 <Samu> using DistanceManhattan, the distance OA = 50, and OB = 50
03:14:55 <ST2> calculate O(0,0) to A(50,0) and O(0,0) to B(25,25) for 20 and 30 days
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03:16:45 <Samu> I need to figure how to make OA = 50, and OB = 33.3333 using the same formula for the distance
03:17:41 <Samu> no, it can't be distancemanhattan
03:17:44 <ST2> because looks like pitagoras theorem
03:20:02 <Samu> I was convinced this was it: 3 * min(dx, dy) / 2 + |dx-dy|
03:21:27 <Samu> but this gets me OB = 37.5
03:24:20 <Samu> @calc 3 * min(abs(25 - 0), abs(25 - 0)) / 2 + abs(abs(25 - 0) - abs(25 - 0))
03:24:57 <Samu> and no, windows calculator can't do this
03:25:42 <ST2> windows apps -> scientific calculator
03:25:51 <ST2> there's lots of them free
03:28:12 <Samu> @calc 3 * min(abs(50 - 0), abs(0 - 0)) / 2 + abs(abs(50 - 0) - abs(0 - 0))
03:34:41 <Samu> 4 * min(dx, dy) / 3 + |dx-dy|
03:34:54 <Samu> it's funny, _dp_ was right all long
03:35:17 <Samu> and I was wrong, utterly convinced myself I was right, and I wasn't
03:36:37 <Samu> @calc 4 * min(abs(50 - 0), abs(0 - 0)) / 3 + abs(abs(50 - 0) - abs(0 - 0))
03:36:53 <Samu> @calc 4 * min(abs(25 - 0), abs(25 - 0)) / 3 + abs(abs(25 - 0) - abs(25 - 0))
03:37:09 <ST2> sadly _dp_ isn't on, same as CM servers (he's owner)
03:37:12 <Samu> if u ever get to read this
03:40:16 <ST2> yup, he was right in 2016, same as today
03:41:13 <ST2> he grabbed the work of LL servers that tried to fix somethings, and even Nova after
03:41:32 <ST2> guess people are quitting when hitting devs wall
03:42:25 <Samu> i gotta go sleep. see you later
03:49:51 <ST2> and I guess the repercussion of openttdcoop have 1 player, for only 1 hour(!) last week
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11:52:58 <Samu> @calc 4 * min(abs(3088 - 4088), abs(1003 - 4)) / 3 + abs(abs(3088 - 4088) - abs(1003 - 4))
11:54:39 <Samu> @calc 4 * min(abs(4087 - 4087), abs(16 - 2015)) / 3 + abs(abs(4087 - 4087) - abs(16 - 2015))
11:58:23 <Samu> 30 * 1999 * 365 / 594 = 30 * x * 365 / 396
11:59:37 <Samu> @calc (30 * 1999 * 365 / 594) / (30 * 365 / 396)
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15:26:17 <Samu> CPU (v5) - bankrupted 04-2049
15:26:29 <Samu> a few months away from 100 years
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16:28:11 <LordAro> Samu: wait 3ish hours
16:28:25 <LordAro> but by all means try yourself :p
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17:23:51 <Samu> is it normaliZe or normaliSe ?
17:23:57 <Samu> who's english enough to know?
17:24:46 <nielsm> do you want to write british or american english?
17:25:07 <nielsm> british tends to prefer S spellings and american tends to prefer Z spellings
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17:25:40 <nielsm> (chris sawyer is from england so transport tycoon is originally british english)
17:27:30 <nielsm> and the main translation file (english.txt) for ottd is also british english
17:43:05 <Samu> uint DistanceTransportedGoodsIncome(TileIndex, TileIndex); ///< Normalised distance which makes diagonal and straight directions equally profitable
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17:51:22 <Samu> in the end... this distance still feels insufficient due to cargo aging
17:51:39 <Samu> diagonal distances will still benefit from it
17:51:54 <Samu> but not as blatantly as before
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17:53:27 <Samu> not ready for a pull request :(
18:00:33 <nielsm> but why is it even a problem? I know the TT map doesn't exactly follow euclidian geometry but I think most players would still expect the pythagorean theorem to hold
18:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm what? the pythagorean theorem is the first thing that goes out the window with non-euclidean geometry
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18:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> which is pretty much hopeless if you're not using the euclidean norm
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18:50:42 <Samu> git rebase -i "what goes here?"
18:50:59 <nielsm> not necessarily anything
18:51:36 <nielsm> not giving a rebase target makes git take a guess, which is usually where it last diverges from another branch
18:55:53 <Samu> When you save and exit the editor, Git rewinds you back to the last commit in that list and drops you on the command line with the following message:
18:56:43 <nielsm> with your regular editor
18:57:19 <nielsm> I assume you're talking about the "edit" action
18:57:26 <Samu> but how do I get to that point in history?
18:57:33 <Samu> how to make the directory
18:57:56 <Samu> do I switch to a temporary branch?
18:58:28 <nielsm> git opens a text editor in your console where you are asked to set up what you want to change
18:58:42 <nielsm> by listing all the commits in history between the rebase target (master) and now
18:59:08 <Samu> i have that in the editor, am about to exit
18:59:12 <nielsm> each line in the file has a command, a revision hash, and a commit message
18:59:37 <nielsm> yes you save (ctrl+o, enter) and exit (ctrl+x)
18:59:48 <nielsm> then git begins the actions you specified
19:00:07 <nielsm> takes the first four revisions as-is (because you gave the "pick" command)
19:00:22 <nielsm> applies the fifth (first "edit") and then it drops you at the commandline
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19:00:36 <nielsm> telling you that you can now begin editing the files as normal
19:00:50 <nielsm> then you make your additional code changes (with visual studio or whatever)
19:01:01 <nielsm> compile to test that you didn't make any mistakes
19:01:18 <nielsm> and when you're sure you've made the changes for that one revision, you use the command:
19:01:34 <nielsm> git add changedfile1.cpp changedfile2.h
19:01:42 <nielsm> (whatever filenames you changed)
19:02:10 <nielsm> that modifies the commit you originally had at that point
19:02:38 <nielsm> "git add" means "prepare the changes in these files to be committed"
19:03:00 <nielsm> (technically, add the changes to the git index)
19:03:57 <Samu> the guide is telling me to use --amend
19:04:56 <nielsm> the basic git workflow for committing changes is that you first use "git add" to stage the changes, then you use "git commit" to actually create a new revision
19:05:46 <nielsm> if you mess up, git also has a fancy feature called "git reflog", which tells you all previous revision hashes you've touched, and will let you recover from big mistakes
19:06:01 <Samu> I prefer the recycle bin
19:06:10 <Samu> and get repository again
19:06:15 <nielsm> just never delete your working tree, if you make a mistake rebasing you can recover with the reflog
19:09:01 <Samu> stupid visual studio sometimes creates some temporary files I have to right click ignore
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19:10:15 <Samu> according to visual studio I am in a (no branch)
19:10:25 <Samu> i suppose this is where I want to be?
19:12:02 <Samu> GitHub Desktop says I'm on a Detached HEAD
19:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm probably "doing it wrong", but i tend to do "git commit -a" and skip the "add" step...
19:13:38 <Samu> visual studio is building
19:13:51 <nielsm> I'm a control freak so I always add manually :P
19:14:02 <nielsm> and do "git status" and "git diff" way too often
19:14:02 <LordAro> ^ paranoia about adding the wrong thing
19:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> means your changes are not elementary enough, and you're retroactively trying to separate them
19:15:54 <Samu> ok, i got a 1 changed file
19:17:09 <Samu> git add src/aircraft_cmd.cpp ?
19:17:21 <Samu> I dunno what Git Bash uses
19:18:24 <nielsm> you can use / path separator most places in windows, really
19:18:51 <Samu> ok, it was added, not really sure what happened, no message at all
19:18:58 <Samu> but i presume it was added
19:19:21 <nielsm> "git status" will tell you what files are in the index
19:19:40 <nielsm> (and it should also remind you that you are in the middle of an interactive rebase)
19:21:01 <nielsm> that means the changes were staged
19:21:20 <nielsm> you can also use "git diff --cached" to see a full diff of what will be committed before doing it
19:21:34 <nielsm> but you're ready to "git commit --amend" now
19:21:58 <nielsm> it'll then let you edit the commit message, but if you don't have any changes to it just exit the editor to do the amend
19:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> you can use / path separator most places in windows, really <-- except in places where windows cmd programs assume / means the start of a parameter (where linux uses - or --)
19:23:31 <nielsm> and if for whatever reason you're into raw NT paths it won't work there either :P
19:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> oh i pity the poor soul who degrades that far :p
19:26:01 <Samu> interesting, that was not what I expected to see
19:28:14 <nielsm> the original changes of the commit you're altering are already committed
19:28:23 <nielsm> so you're only seeing your changes to it
19:28:37 <nielsm> when you commit --amend it'll merge the two changesets
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19:29:40 <Samu> now git rebase --continue?
19:30:48 <nielsm> after the amend is done
19:31:25 <Samu> yep, i'm on the next one, visual studio again
19:32:09 <Samu> github desktop is really useful here
19:36:41 <andythenorth> I assume I can't return CB_NO_RESULT when using sprite compositing in nml?
19:37:16 <andythenorth> action 2 always has to resolve to a realsprite?
19:37:50 <Samu> can I use git commit --amend --no-edit
19:37:53 <nielsm> I can't answer that question
19:38:08 <andythenorth> nielsm: mine or samu's :P
19:38:17 <nielsm> andythenorth yours was the no-answer one :)
19:38:29 <andythenorth> I've been around newgrf for 10 years, I should know :P
19:39:27 <nielsm> right until they aren't nice!!
19:39:33 <andythenorth> they look really happy
19:39:37 <andythenorth> due to the shape of their face
19:39:45 <andythenorth> even when they're fighting
19:40:55 <Samu> oh, number 8 file is another
19:41:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: you need a spritegroup with zero sets, not sure whether CB_FAILED would do that; but CB_NO_RESULT is definitely incorrect
19:42:58 <andythenorth> frosch123: currently I just resolve to a realsprite with empty blue boxes
19:43:06 <andythenorth> which absolutely works, just seems inefficient :)
19:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to have misplaced the "A","B" and "C" parts of my movie archives
19:47:07 <andythenorth> there is a smart reply to that
19:47:10 <andythenorth> but I didn't think of it
19:49:26 <frosch123> andythenorth: "spriteset(empty) {}" and "return empty" may work
19:50:12 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly does CB_FAILED resolve to anyway?
19:50:50 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i can see, all of alf gone is bad; but what is important about C?
19:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it's not that bad, only movie archive, not series archive
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19:52:01 <Samu> the last command to use is how?
19:52:32 <Samu> oh i dont want to pull, i want to push with force
19:52:33 <nielsm> after all actions in your interactive rebase are done, you're done ;)
19:52:46 <nielsm> yes, force push to your fork on github
19:53:07 <nielsm> github automatically updates the PR with the changed commits
19:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> random question: what qualifies 4/3 as a "good" approximation of sqrt(2)?
19:59:30 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it's better than 3/2 and less complicated than 7/5? and it has a power of two somewhere
20:00:01 <andythenorth> frosch123: spriteset(empty) {} trips a syntax error :)
20:00:03 <andythenorth> Syntax error, unexpected token "}"
20:00:22 <andythenorth> this isn't a very interesting issue to solve :)
20:00:25 <frosch123> if you add a [] between the {} ?
20:00:43 <frosch123> so you have a complete collection of all parentheses types?
20:01:01 <frosch123> and only weird languages do < >
20:01:33 <andythenorth> but broken sprites (the classic question mark)
20:03:16 <andythenorth> empty png is fine :)
20:03:29 <andythenorth> I am finding good uses for sprite compositing
20:03:49 <andythenorth> but when use of layers is conditional, it can be a bit fiddly to handle
20:04:08 <andythenorth> it's all worked nicely though now
20:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> "good" as in "clever, but next year we're calling it BAD FEATURE" or actually good?
20:04:32 <andythenorth> good as in, efficient on not repeating hand-drawn sprites needlessly
20:04:36 <andythenorth> maintenance + quality good
20:04:45 <andythenorth> but actually the compile to achieve it is quite convoluted
20:04:57 <andythenorth> it strings together 4 different subsytems :P
20:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> (well, i'd question the validity of a "linear" extrapolation in that graph)
20:08:15 <Samu> this thing is funny to watch
20:08:35 <Samu> your compilers are utterly slow
20:08:46 <Samu> or at least visual studio do it faster
20:08:49 <LordAro> it's probably got less cores than you
20:09:00 <LordAro> and it does it completely from scratch
20:13:03 <andythenorth> most of our production VMs are much slower than our developer laptops
20:13:59 <andythenorth> oof hg is not git, again
20:14:29 <andythenorth> one day I'll get around to switching
20:15:43 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Warning C4267 'argument': conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint', possible loss of data openttd D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD\src\tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp 719
20:17:21 <LordAro> is that code you've edited?
20:18:17 <Samu> _cleared_object_areas[coa_index].first_tile = old_first_tile;
20:23:32 <Samu> it's complaining about coa_index
20:24:00 <Samu> size_t coa_index = coa - _cleared_object_areas.Begin();
20:25:42 <LordAro> ah yeah, SmallVector uses unit as an indexing type
20:26:10 <LordAro> that'll get fixed by #6817, if it ever gets finished
20:29:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so pantographs must vary by position in consist? :P
20:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "must"
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20:30:02 <andythenorth> it's not hard to add a few more switches
20:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be a nice detail
20:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that 99% of the players never notice
20:30:41 <andythenorth> what was the pattern?
20:30:50 <andythenorth> assume A and B pantographs
20:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> more engines: (Ab)*bA
20:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> more engines: (Ab)*aB
20:32:11 <andythenorth> so is it actually: if last in consist aB else Ab ?
20:32:38 <andythenorth> pretty trivial then
20:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> next is detecting what constitutes an "engine"
20:33:49 <andythenorth> I was going to rely on same ID
20:34:07 <andythenorth> there aren't enough twin-pantograph electric engines to worry about combinations
20:34:42 <andythenorth> that is a co-incidental find
20:35:10 <andythenorth> they are single pantograph though
20:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well i'm more surprised that they actually have electric freight trains at all
20:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, if nml supported procedure calls, the "what constitutes an engine" check could be a use case for that
20:38:10 <andythenorth> within horse, I can just do it by ID
20:38:17 <andythenorth> I already do other things
20:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose "position in same-id chain" is enough for most actual use cases
20:58:02 <andythenorth> I intended to link this seriously
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21:21:34 <andythenorth> seems to be a topic in my twitter at least
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21:37:00 <LordAro> speaking of OSS devs getting burnt out, peter1138 should review some PRs
21:37:32 <LordAro> (much hugs to all devs)
21:38:27 <andythenorth> we should have a 'probably fine' branch
21:38:42 <andythenorth> which is the feeder to stable
21:38:50 <peter1138> I could maintain a branch in my github "fork" but... then I'd need to maintain it.
21:39:02 <LordAro> andythenorth: that's supposed to be master
21:39:13 <andythenorth> I could maintain a branch, but I've been programming for 35 years, and I'm still not good
21:39:16 <LordAro> unfortunately, the lack of nightlies has meant testing has rather dried up
21:39:25 <andythenorth> still, at least I'm working on it :P
21:40:17 <andythenorth> samu has rekt the PR count :(
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21:45:34 <LordAro> andythenorth: good reads, thanks for sharing
21:46:07 <andythenorth> lot of guilt in OSS
21:46:12 <andythenorth> or potential guilt
21:46:24 <andythenorth> better to have fun
21:46:55 <andythenorth> I was thinking about just closing PRs that go nowhere after 3 months
21:47:00 <andythenorth> 'sorry you were unlucky'
21:47:20 <andythenorth> OTOH my toys are out of the pram that NRT has died :P
21:50:12 <LordAro> andythenorth's branch tho :p
21:50:22 <peter1138> So it needs rebasing.
21:51:32 <LordAro> oh yeah, map bits have moved around
21:52:51 <peter1138> Was the last thing I did for that.
21:53:18 <peter1138> So it's rebased to after the map bits got moved.
21:53:42 <LordAro> that's probably what's needed
21:53:58 <peter1138> And then patched to move its own bits :)
21:54:09 <LordAro> andythenorth: shove peter1138's branch on top of yours
21:54:33 <andythenorth> didn't I do all that already?
21:54:34 <peter1138> I dunno if anything else has happened in the past 2 months.
21:55:07 <LordAro> i just tried to rebase, and ran into map bit issues, so i guess not
21:55:42 <peter1138> I updated at the end of July.
21:56:30 <peter1138> It ws 4 minutes ago.
21:56:39 <andythenorth> nah I mean in July :)
21:56:46 <andythenorth> I'd have updated the PR if I'd noticed
21:56:49 <peter1138> Oh, I dunno. I did paste it at the time.
21:57:36 <andythenorth> oof so before I fuck up the git
21:57:41 <andythenorth> what exactly do I need to do?
21:57:50 <andythenorth> otherwise I end up just deleting All Things
21:58:24 <LordAro> git checkout peter nrt-block-rebase; git push -f andy nrt-block
21:58:34 <LordAro> replace remote names as appropriate
21:59:38 <andythenorth> I squashed some extra commits into "Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)"
21:59:44 <andythenorth> don't know what, because history :P
21:59:56 * LordAro does not remember making any changes to NRT
22:02:51 <andythenorth> I'm not just going to bin them off, they probably fixed something :P
22:04:08 <andythenorth> Wolf01: what failed when you tried to rebase NRT?
22:04:27 <LordAro> if it helps, nrt-block-rebased also fails to rebase :p
22:05:03 <peter1138> There were a couple of fixes after I guess.
22:05:08 <andythenorth> can we just fix that, declare peter1138 is much better programmer than me, then merge his branch?
22:05:23 <LordAro> (and saveload.cpp, but that's just the version number)
22:14:50 * andythenorth invents a new railtype
22:15:00 <andythenorth> that can be modified by vehicles passing over it
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23:29:50 <Samu> pondering if i create a pull request
23:31:19 <LordAro> not sure about b) though
23:31:33 <LordAro> giving users the ability to do things wrong...
23:31:51 <LordAro> though i think special casing it would be worse
23:37:18 <Samu> currently helicopters can only be replaced with helicopters
23:38:30 <Samu> i think autoreplace code handles this well enough
23:39:49 <Samu> there's CanVehicleUseStation checks somewhere in there, so it fails the autoreplace
23:41:47 <Samu> my code isn't perfect, i am using magic numbers in a situation
23:42:19 <Samu> + case 0: // All aircraft types
23:42:26 <Samu> + case 1: // Same aircraft type
23:44:10 <LordAro> or some existing aircraft type thing
23:44:54 <Samu> let me create a branch on my repository with this code
23:48:33 <peter1138> Hmm, X-Plane ran out of memory. I have 32GB...
23:57:36 <LordAro> peter1138: did you try to load the entire plane?
23:58:29 <LordAro> Samu: you could reuse the STR_ constants
continue to next day ⏵