IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-09-12
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:59 <nielsm> there is some logic in one of the Fio* functions that tries the filename as specified, and then a lowercased version too
00:03:09 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
00:03:52 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
00:05:38 <LordAro> ah, it also only searches baseset/
00:05:43 <LordAro> and my files are in gm/
00:06:16 <LordAro> that's definitely an issue though, because it's picking up the .obm in the gm/ dir
00:07:36 <LordAro> yeah, that's the actual issue here, not the case issue
00:25:52 <LordAro> and now that i've fixed my timidity setup, it's doing much better
00:36:39 <Samu> do any of the sites work? grr
00:53:09 <Samu> LuDiAI AfterFix is a bit more cost conscious about the route
00:53:25 <LordAro> aroai hardly plans at all :p
00:53:46 <Samu> they're essentially tied the first 10 years
00:54:05 <LordAro> iirc, its process is 1) find city 2) build routes to all towns in a 250(?) tile radius around it
00:54:52 <Samu> i think LuDiAI has it set to 115? and then 115 * 1.2 if it couldn't find
00:55:01 <LordAro> actually, 250 seems way too big
00:55:13 <LordAro> probably no more than 100
00:55:54 <Samu> suddenly LuDiAI took off! 12 years into
00:56:49 <Samu> strange that AroAI still has a better pathfinding success
00:58:03 <Samu> ah, i see why aroai is doing bad after 12 years
00:59:17 <Samu> wow, my AI crashed, wow that's unexpected lol
01:00:28 <Samu> fixed, that was because I was moving the order at which stuff was being managed
01:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i always wanted an AI that makes a voronoi partition of the map, and then builds all the cnnections
01:00:43 <Samu> some local variables weren't accounted for
01:01:31 <Samu> retrying with breakdowns disabled
01:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i managed to implement the partition, and list all neighbours of each city
01:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> next step was "?"
01:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure why there's no profit yet
01:03:07 <Samu> @google voronoi partition
01:06:08 <Samu> One of the early applications of Voronoi diagrams was implemented by John Snow
01:06:16 <Samu> you know nothing John Snow
01:24:32 <Samu> AroAI isn't cargodist aware, or is it?
01:25:56 <LordAro> it predates cargodist :p
01:26:14 <LordAro> well, it predates cargodist being in trunk
01:26:29 <LordAro> cargodist as a patch has been around for many years
01:27:09 <Samu> i'm a bit confused what the plan is
01:27:21 <Samu> connect 1 big town to nearby small towns?
01:28:34 <Samu> damn, my ai builds ridiculously long bridges once he has the money, and aroai is taking full advantage of it :(
01:34:38 <Samu> retesting with cargodist disabled
01:41:13 <Samu> ah, aroai shines better with cargodist disabled, and in temperate
01:41:51 <LordAro> Samu: much fewer passengers in other environments
01:44:11 <Samu> aroai will win if it keeps this rate
01:44:56 <Samu> the main advantage of aro is really it's planning speed
01:45:13 <Samu> mine gets slower the more routes there are, management is slow
01:45:38 <Samu> and pathfinder takes more time and fails more often
01:49:24 <Samu> 68 stations vs 158 stations
01:49:38 <Samu> it's more than twice as fast
01:53:02 <Samu> gonna try different settings for my ai
01:53:25 <LordAro> Samu: achieved nearly the same value with less than half the stations though
01:53:43 <LordAro> it's clearly more efficient
01:54:47 <Samu> oh, i see lordaro expands stations, i thought it didn
01:55:41 <Samu> ok now mine expands stations, station spreads and is not friendly and not random
01:59:23 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
01:59:27 <Samu> these seem to be it's most competitive settings, it's doing much better
02:00:43 <Samu> station spreading is really imba :(
02:03:13 <Samu> i blame station spreading
02:04:41 <Supercheese> there are plenty of exploits if you're just wanting to make moneyz
02:09:26 <Samu> i'm off to bed, cyas take care
03:23:55 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
03:36:43 *** Gustavo6056 has joined #openttd
03:41:54 *** Gustavo6056 is now known as Gustavo6046
04:17:11 *** rocky113844 has joined #openttd
05:05:21 *** Hobbyboy has joined #openttd
05:26:51 *** haudrauf has joined #openttd
06:26:12 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
07:22:00 *** Suprcheese has joined #openttd
08:39:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:19:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker pushed 1 commits to master:
09:19:09 <DorpsGek_II> - Fix #6839: OLD_GM_DIR midi search path got lost (#6900) (by LordAro)
09:41:23 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
09:42:51 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: do you cycle any liveries using depot flip?
09:42:54 <andythenorth> or is that just me?
09:46:06 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: in a depot, I only randomly flip certain engines
09:46:24 <snail_UES_> liveries only change through players’ actions
09:46:31 <andythenorth> how many vehicle liveries do you have typically?
09:47:14 <snail_UES_> 2 or 3 for most of them...
09:47:25 <snail_UES_> they’re based on real-life companies though
09:47:39 <snail_UES_> some engines only get one, a few others get like 5 or 6
09:48:24 <snail_UES_> I’m also adding a parameter to turn the set in 2cc colors for people who don’t care about realism :p
09:48:48 <andythenorth> I have vehicles with 2 liveries, which are selected by flipping the vehicle in depot
09:49:04 <andythenorth> I'm wondering if we can have 2 bits for flip, and cycle them
09:49:17 <andythenorth> giving 4 liveries
11:00:46 <Samu> road depots can be "removed"?
11:01:15 <Samu> i thought "demolish" was the only option
11:02:41 <Samu> what will it leave behind? pieces of road?
11:05:58 <Samu> return ScriptObject::DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);
11:11:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:24:25 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
11:24:38 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: 4 statuses for flipping?
11:25:02 <snail_UES_> flipping now works well as “flipped” vs. “not flipped"...
11:25:17 <snail_UES_> livery cycling can be done in different ways, i.e. through refitting, or randomly
11:25:37 <snail_UES_> a better solution would be purchase list variants :)
11:39:21 <Samu> the difference between 10k opcodes and 250k opcodes is abysmal
11:39:38 <Samu> something that is usually done in 50 days, is done in 2 days
12:04:21 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: there's an idea for purchase list variants also
12:04:31 <andythenorth> I like the livery flipping, it's really quick and easy
12:04:48 <snail_UES_> but flipping is used for another purpose
12:05:01 <snail_UES_> there are vehicles that can run backwards
12:05:10 <snail_UES_> and that’s what flipping is used for...
12:05:25 <snail_UES_> using 2 bits for that would break this
12:05:50 <andythenorth> nah, it can be masked
12:06:04 <andythenorth> so 0 and 2 are unflipped, and 1 and 3 are flipped
12:06:32 <snail_UES_> I still think there could be a better way
12:07:08 <snail_UES_> with this methdology, we would soon think that 4 liveries to cycle through will be “not enough"
12:07:24 <snail_UES_> and I can clearly see people asking for more bits allocated to this...
12:07:35 <snail_UES_> purchase list variants would be a more expandable solution
12:08:07 <andythenorth> I wouldn't propose the flip cycle as the best solution to liveries
12:08:15 <andythenorth> it's more a harmless option for silly hacks
12:08:28 <snail_UES_> people would easily abuse it :D
12:09:35 <snail_UES_> yeah, the point is, you did and now are requesting an additional bit
12:09:51 <snail_UES_> the next person would ask for another bit...
12:11:44 <andythenorth> we'd end up with a byte
12:12:10 <andythenorth> more than a byte is silly
12:12:25 <snail_UES_> and I’d have to rewrite some of my code :p
12:12:39 <snail_UES_> since I’m checking for flipped status countless times
12:13:14 <snail_UES_> but TBH I still prefer my current way to cycle across liveries
12:13:26 <andythenorth> it would have to work in a backwards compatible way
12:13:37 <snail_UES_> i.e. with refitting to passengers. It allows the user to directly choose tge livery he wants
12:14:00 <andythenorth> yeah I've seen that route
12:14:08 <andythenorth> I never ever use cargo refit so it doesn't work for me :)
12:14:30 <snail_UES_> well, I’d be happy to give it up if we had purchase list variants ;)
12:29:35 *** Progman has joined #openttd
12:32:41 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
12:34:35 <peter1138> You're not getting extra bits for flipping.
12:45:08 <andythenorth> what if it flip was n-dimensional :P
12:45:30 <andythenorth> BUT HOW WILL I DO STUPID HAX?
12:48:21 *** snail_UES_ is now known as Guest330
12:48:21 *** snail_UES__ has joined #openttd
12:48:21 *** snail_UES__ is now known as snail_UES_
12:50:35 <Samu> the ai now removes stuff that failed to be removed
12:50:54 <Samu> it adds to a scheduleremoves
12:51:09 <Samu> that is run from time to time
12:51:23 <Samu> and it saves and it loads
12:52:39 <Samu> this means i can speed up the expanding station code better
12:52:54 <Samu> er, the result of this is that
12:52:57 <peter1138> I'm not sure why openttd doesn't just save the whole state itself.
12:53:33 <peter1138> I suppose that would be more complex in many cases.
12:54:23 <andythenorth> peter1138: so no flipping? :(
12:54:57 <peter1138> You can flip as much as you like, but using it for livery selection is definitely a bad feature.
12:57:16 <andythenorth> we need buy menu groups then :P
13:02:07 <Samu> ugh... 5k opcodes and very slow construction speeds is very very slow
13:02:15 <Samu> 800 days to complete first route :(
13:50:25 <Samu> hmm, iterating routes backwards has a disadvantage
13:50:55 <Samu> a new route is appended to the end of the routearray
13:51:39 <Samu> managing routes backwards would mean that older routes will have to wait a bit longer for their management turn :(
13:52:25 <Samu> it has to iterate all routes anyway
14:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> what if it flip was n-dimensional :P <-- what now, you want to flip up/down as well? :p
14:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll side with peter1138 on this one.
14:02:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what dimension is 'I changed the colours of the pixels'?
14:02:20 <andythenorth> it is a dimension IMHO :P
14:02:23 <andythenorth> there's a colourspace
14:02:47 <andythenorth> flipping 1CC and 2CC is 'reversing' if I twist the words enough :P
14:08:26 <Samu> hmm, ai is failing to build depot
14:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but then, you would need a modifier key for each dimension independently. it can't be a "cycle"
14:09:00 <Samu> because the whole tiles adjacent to the road have houses
14:09:01 <andythenorth> I can control the dimensional cycle
14:09:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "flip" is by definition a cycle of 2
14:09:29 <Samu> maybe i should demolish houses
14:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (unless you're trying to insert a USB stick)
14:10:38 <andythenorth> that is not quite what I was looking for
14:11:48 <andythenorth> I was trying to find a tetrahedron flip, which has a cycle of 4
14:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: with geometric objects, you have two operations: mirroring and rotating
14:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> mirroring is a cycle of 2, rotating is a cycle of n
14:14:22 <andythenorth> I will defer to you
14:14:31 <andythenorth> nobody is going to add me another bit anyway :(
14:14:37 <andythenorth> not even for lulz
14:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're going to change the code, might as well do it properly
14:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause> for cycles longer than 2 the UI is just going to be annoying
14:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and you're causing a ton of followup problems, like what if a person wants to change the available liveries over time?
14:22:26 <andythenorth> that's not silly hax
14:22:32 <andythenorth> that's doing things properly
14:22:41 <andythenorth> this isn't a solution to liveries, it's for stupid easter eggs
14:22:58 <andythenorth> but as we all learn, too many easter eggs make you sick ::
14:26:32 <andythenorth> hmm if we did have buy menu groups....
14:26:37 <andythenorth> ...the endless possibilities :P
14:43:07 <andythenorth> oof but autoreplace :(
14:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> well, with buy menu groups, you could make autoreplace handle either the whole group, or individual entries, based on player choice
14:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't do that with hackyflips
14:57:29 <andythenorth> I don't need convincing about groups :)
14:58:10 <andythenorth> but meanwhile my hackyflips mean I need to do a lot of drawing :P
14:58:33 <andythenorth> I can't use recolour sprites for hopper liveries because of the cargo colours
14:58:43 <andythenorth> ha I can put the loads on another layer
14:58:51 <andythenorth> almost like it was intended to be that way :P
14:59:26 <andythenorth> thanks for that Eddi|zuHause :)
15:00:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure what i had to do with that
15:00:15 <andythenorth> you were integral
15:00:18 <andythenorth> it was practically your idea
15:00:44 <andythenorth> now I just need to refactor ~everything
15:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i have loads of ideas
15:01:25 <andythenorth> recolour sprites
15:01:42 <andythenorth> currently I only use them to flip 1CC / 2CC, and frosch wrote that for me
15:01:51 <andythenorth> I need to remap a bunch of other colours too :P
15:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even remember what part of that idea was supposed to be mine
15:03:19 <andythenorth> the bit where you convinced me not to use hackyflip for more than 2 liveries
15:03:37 <andythenorth> hackyflip is the new BAD FEATURE
15:04:34 <andythenorth> recolour sprites are just A: B pairs?
15:16:33 <andythenorth> then you could replace like for like
15:16:58 <andythenorth> there would have to be newgrf defined rules :P
15:17:05 <andythenorth> so that Santa Fe -> BNSF
15:17:14 <andythenorth> and we could have a spec for that
15:18:28 <andythenorth> WHO ANIMATED THOSE PIXELS
15:21:04 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
16:22:22 <Samu> i got a weird assert triggering
16:22:38 <Samu> there was no reason for it to happen
16:24:14 <Samu> AITile.GetClosestTown(tile) has returned 2 different values
16:27:04 <Samu> it returned the town to the left during valuator
16:27:19 <Samu> later on in the code it returned the town to the right
16:30:05 <Samu> founding towns isn't enabled
16:30:26 <Samu> why did I get 2 different values?
16:32:00 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
16:43:08 *** rocky113844 has joined #openttd
16:49:57 <Samu> during valuator, there was a house in the tile, a house belonging to the town to the left
16:50:16 <Samu> later on, when doing the 2nd check, the house was no longer there
16:50:30 <Samu> the closest town then was the town to the right
16:51:20 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
16:51:23 <Samu> case MP_HOUSE: return Town::GetByTile(tile);
16:52:27 <Samu> i still dont understand something
16:52:42 <Samu> is buildable rectangle passed that check
16:53:13 <Samu> maybe I do... during valuator, there was a house
16:53:23 <Samu> during buildable rectangle there wasn't
16:58:38 <Samu> do i always have to check the nearest_town is still the same town?
17:08:23 *** synchris has joined #openttd
17:32:39 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:34:40 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
18:07:02 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
18:17:42 <Samu> 4k map test reachin 2051 soon
18:47:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
19:17:41 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:23:04 <TrueBrain> so I was wondering why I was not receiving email on @openttd.org .. turns out clamd was being ...... euh .. weird
19:23:21 <TrueBrain> and the email to notify me about that ... is ..... acting weird :D
19:24:40 <andythenorth> hello TrueBrain :)
19:25:11 <andythenorth> "This should not happen!! Data will be lost"
19:25:25 <TrueBrain> clamd couldnt boot as it was running out of memory ... fantastic ... 1GB not enough for you :(
19:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 1GB for booting?
19:26:07 <TrueBrain> I think something got corrupted
19:27:19 <TrueBrain> right, seems it broke-ish 3 days ago
19:27:22 <TrueBrain> and it started to amplify itself
19:27:28 <andythenorth> your day is just like mine
19:27:32 <TrueBrain> every message resending etc
19:31:07 <TrueBrain> 96 mails in the inbound queue :D
19:31:52 <TrueBrain> clamd needs 700 MiB of RAM to run :o
19:35:45 <TrueBrain> 1 email was tried 23k times ... LOL
19:35:55 <TrueBrain> right .. it now started to dequeue again :)
19:40:11 <TrueBrain> I always disliked clamd .. but what can you do :)
19:51:45 <andythenorth> the things I do for pointless Easter Eggs :)
19:51:57 <andythenorth> changing the layout of about 20 spritesheets
19:52:04 <andythenorth> refactored 2 graphics pipelines
19:52:11 *** Salamander has joined #openttd
19:52:17 <andythenorth> probs 4 hours actual work + thinking time
19:52:26 <andythenorth> for something nobody will find
19:52:48 <Salamander> Hi, how do I estimate how much income each train trip will produce?
19:53:18 <Salamander> before I lay the tracks
19:53:32 <andythenorth> oh sorry, this isn't the tank game :)
19:53:48 <andythenorth> Salamander: it's something you learn by experience only :)
19:53:55 <andythenorth> we have 'save' and 'load' :)
19:54:46 <Salamander> how few tiles are too few for a train connection where a truck connection would do better?
19:55:09 <andythenorth> are you using any newgrfs?
19:55:22 <andythenorth> or just base game?
19:55:40 <andythenorth> depends on the newgrfs, I wouldn't run a train less than about 16 tiles
19:55:46 <andythenorth> but it's very variable
19:55:56 <Salamander> so, once more, save/load? :]
19:56:14 <Salamander> let's try this another way
19:56:24 <Salamander> could you point me to the source code which calculates this?
19:56:37 <Salamander> assuming its not spread all over the palce
19:57:19 <andythenorth> I am not sure :)
19:58:16 <andythenorth> I am looking for CargoPayment
19:59:04 <andythenorth> sorry didn't find an answer
20:00:53 <Salamander> thank you for looking
20:00:58 <Salamander> how nice that openttd uses github \o/
20:01:49 <Salamander> I haven't played for some years, so I downloaded the latest release a few days ago, and was stunned by the amount of addons and the level of detail
20:03:02 <andythenorth> we have all been busy :D
20:06:11 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
20:07:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:22:56 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
20:34:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:35:08 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
20:42:23 <andythenorth> I got a new text editor
20:46:11 <andythenorth> it autocompletes things like brackets and quotes
20:46:27 <andythenorth> and also suggests autocompletions for varnames and stuff
20:46:45 <andythenorth> my old editor was basically notepad with syntax highlighting :P
20:46:50 <andythenorth> I've caught up to 1997
20:47:23 <frosch123> if you use "smart" editors you have to stick to one though
20:47:39 <frosch123> otherwise it's hard to predict what you need to type yourself and what is autocompleted
20:47:48 <frosch123> so you always have to reread what you typed
20:48:39 <frosch123> sometimes i find lines ending in ";;" at work
20:48:59 <andythenorth> that happened already
20:49:01 <frosch123> one ; autocompleted, one ; typed manually without noticing that the editor alread yput one
20:54:11 <Samu> is zuu responsible for 90% of ai libraries?
21:01:28 <andythenorth> keeps showing me grey hoppers (drawn)
21:01:36 <andythenorth> and brown ones (many hours of work to achieve) :P
21:10:04 <Samu> are rail/road tiles tiles of type road or rail?
21:16:10 *** Salamander has left #openttd
21:17:32 <frosch123> 39 new mails, was it necessary to fix the server? :p
21:17:44 <andythenorth> rule: select all mail, delete
21:18:07 <Samu> return IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD) && IsLevelCrossing(t);
21:18:32 <Samu> well, why is it in the AIRail category, it only confuses
21:21:19 <andythenorth> definitely I can't have 2 vehicle bits for a depot flip cycle? o_O
21:58:21 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd
23:02:01 <Samu> This script took too long in the Load function. Script is not started.
23:19:10 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:44:57 *** rocky113844 has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
