IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-07-07
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02:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> turns out i hate this feeling when i get stuck in an adventure game
02:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause> at the edge of this moment where the urge to open a walkthrough rises, but not yet overcomes the feeling that would be cheating
02:10:41 <Supercheese> if you're lucky, there'll be an in-game hint system
02:11:22 <glx> sometime hint system is worse than a walkthrough
02:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll continue tomorrow, or so
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09:01:45 <andythenorth> eh when did master stop compiling :|
09:17:10 <Alberth> we had some warnings introduced recently, that kills the compilation?
09:17:32 <Alberth> also, you may want use 'blame' on the offending line :p
09:32:52 <andythenorth> src/economy.cpp:702:20: error: expected expression
09:32:53 <andythenorth> c->cur_economy = {};
09:34:57 <Alberth> :O c++11 magic, probably
09:36:04 <peter1138> CI needs to enforce not-c++11?
09:39:47 <nielsm> what kind of ancient compiler are you using?
09:40:08 <nielsm> but yeah it's probably because the {} invokes the "universal initialialization" rules
09:40:53 <nielsm> so the {} should really be replaced with Economy() or whatever the name is default constructor
09:41:38 <Alberth> Likely one of the fields in CompanyEconomyEntry is not a POD, so you shouldn't 0 the memory?
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09:42:38 <Alberth> CompanyEconomyEntry has no constructor, so just CompanyEconomyEntry(); should work
09:46:09 <Alberth> or doesn;t a struct have constructors by default?
09:46:09 <Alberth> ok, it does compile with that change
09:46:51 <nielsm> yeah Money is not a POD type
09:47:06 <nielsm> because OverflowSafeInt<> has custom constructors
09:47:11 <andythenorth> FWIW Apple LLVM version 9.0.0 (clang-900.0.39.2)
09:47:33 <Alberth> other projects cast the pointer to a void* :p
09:47:55 <nielsm> that's called putting on a blindfold
09:48:07 <Alberth> c->cur_economy = CompanyEconomyEntry(); <-- andythenorth, does this work?
09:48:12 <nielsm> doesn't make the chasm disappear from around you :)
09:48:54 <Alberth> you got to introduce more sublte bugs with improved compiler bug detection, eh? :)
09:49:24 <nielsm> a little while ago I looked into trying to turn Money into a POD type but it's surprisingly hard, everywhere depends on having easy ways to put regular values into them
09:50:04 <Alberth> why did you try that? is a class wrong?
09:50:35 <nielsm> lots of things seem to assume OverflowSafeInt<> are actually POD, even though they technically aren't
09:51:06 <Alberth> ah, fair enough, and yes that sounds likely to happen
09:51:32 <nielsm> it's only by technicality since none of the constructors actually do anything interesting
09:51:46 <nielsm> so it's unlikely to cause real problems
09:51:57 <Alberth> must keep our lord busy :)
09:52:16 <nielsm> unless compilers end up making incorrect optimizations because of aliasing assumptions
09:52:59 <Alberth> they might at some point, the c++ language is moving as we speak
09:57:34 <andythenorth> Alberth: new error
09:57:40 <andythenorth> src/landscape.cpp:1083:9: error: non-aggregate type 'AyStar' cannot be initialized with an
09:57:41 <andythenorth> initializer list
09:59:12 <Alberth> oh, different place at least :)
09:59:21 <nielsm> let's try adding a bunch of static_assert(std::is_pod<T>()); into the various custom container templates here
09:59:41 <nielsm> andythenorth for that one just remove the ={}
10:00:19 <Alberth> andy, revert to master, and run "make -k" that will try to compile all files even if there are errors. Then make an issue
10:00:29 <nielsm> since "AyStay finder;" also does default initialization
10:01:51 <Alberth> solving them one by one works too, of course :)
10:06:44 <andythenorth> maybe there's a flag to print only errors
10:08:37 <Alberth> openttd does aim for a warning-less compile
10:08:50 <andythenorth> we're failing then :)
10:15:32 <andythenorth> I need to pick out just the errors
10:15:40 <andythenorth> I'll do it manually
10:20:58 <andythenorth> warnings are many more
10:40:58 <nielsm> making ottd compile with that patch is a good summer project!!
10:46:56 <planetmaker> honest question: what would be the advantage of enforcing that, nielsm?
10:47:12 <LordAro> removing autofreeptr wouldn't go amiss either
10:49:50 <nielsm> autofreeptr should probably be replaced with std::unique_ptr
10:53:01 <nielsm> moving the codebase to modern more type-safe C++ or not I'd say is a question of whether you want OTTD to be a reotro-ish game for old systems or one for new systems
10:53:58 <LordAro> removing the need for pretty much all of src/core has been something i've been keen on for a while
10:54:17 <planetmaker> :) you're Mr C++11 anyway :)
10:56:13 <Alberth> you're getting younger as time progresses :p
10:59:28 <Alberth> hmm, grfcodec compile fails
11:13:43 <LordAro> nielsm: the first error i get appears to be related to SmallMap<int, QueryString*> - are pointers not acceptable to is_pod?
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11:22:57 <nielsm> LordAro, pointers are supposed to be fine
11:23:35 <LordAro> nielsm: well they seem not to be, unless i'm misreading the error message
11:23:46 <LordAro> i just replaced it with a std::map anyway :)
11:23:55 <nielsm> unless SmallMap assumes the second type is a pointer that can be deref'd and free'd
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11:27:34 <nielsm> SmallMap<T,U> compiles to a SmallVector<SmallPair<T,U>> and SmallPair<> is not POD
11:28:56 <nielsm> but I somewhat want a "map" type that doesn't try to do anything fancy, litreally just inserts items in order, moves item from back into empty position when you remove one in the middle, and does linear search for lookups
11:29:19 <nielsm> since that really can be faster than doing hash tables or balanced trees
11:41:00 <michi_cc> andythenorth: That clang version should support c++11 AFAIK, but you might be a victim of #6773 and not getting the proper compile flags.
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11:44:48 <andythenorth> maybe I can apply JGR's patch
11:49:28 <Alberth> AyStar is tricky, not sure if that should be allowed
11:49:58 <LordAro> shouldn't be a lot of other warnings anyway..
11:50:06 <LordAro> my bet is on the #6773 issue
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11:51:14 <andythenorth> yeah compiles with JGR's patch
11:51:20 <andythenorth> fewer warnings also
11:51:28 <andythenorth> I haven't tried yours yet Alberth
11:51:41 <LordAro> what warnings are there?
11:52:50 <nielsm> Alberth I think it's fine with AyStay, the type is not a POD (because it has non-public members) so it should have a compiler-generated default constructor, which also default-constructs all members
11:52:52 <Alberth> there are a lot more warnings, apparently
11:52:59 <nielsm> i.e. zero initializes them for the most part
11:53:32 <LordAro> andythenorth: ah yeah, not a lot i can do about the deprecated stuff
11:53:51 <LordAro> perhaps there are some ifdef stuff that could be amended
11:55:47 <nielsm> hmm, maybe I'm wrong about that
11:59:53 <nielsm> yeah it'd be better to give AyStar a user-defined constructor that initializes it properly
12:03:57 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps make a few derived classes to get rid of the C-style OO
12:04:25 <Alberth> for me, not today at least
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14:13:27 <qwebirc52686> Hello! I can't change to currency 'Euro (EUR)' ingame.. Can anyone help?
14:18:33 <qwebirc52686> I tried to change the currency at the main menu and that works, but when I get back into the saved game it gets back to USD
14:19:00 <peter1138> Did you try changing it in game?
14:19:08 <qwebirc52686> Yes, but I could not select it
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14:24:46 <michi_cc> qwebirc52686: Wait for the year 2000.
14:25:57 <michi_cc> OTTD models the Euro changeover for affected currencies.
14:31:49 <peter1138> Of which, USD isn't one...
14:38:36 <nielsm> yeah if you use D-Mark or Franc or some other pre-EUR currency it just gets converted to EUR on the date
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15:14:18 <stefino> hello. Have bridges ground sprites like buildings and can I change them? I mean ends of the bridges.
15:19:40 <nielsm> you mean the ground sprites below bridgeheads?
15:22:24 <stefino> if it has the same code logic like buildings where can I choose ground sprite what will be displayed under the building
15:23:39 <stefino> the same mechanism is at industry tiles and stations - if I remember corectly
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17:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <michi_cc> qwebirc52686: Wait for the year 2000. <-- i don't think that was the answer he was looking for. but rather he was looking for the settings menu while in the game, instead of the main menu
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17:15:33 <__ln__> i'm not aware of any countries introducing the euro already in 2000.
17:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there was this time period where the euro was already adopted by banks and bureaucracy, before the actual coins/bills were distributed
17:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause> at that point, the exchange rates were frozen
17:39:56 <while> does that mean starting in the year 2000, speculative attacks in Europe were no longer feasible (such as Black Monday in the UK in I think 1993)
17:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it might have been 1999 or 1998
17:42:32 <__ln__> i think 1999 is the earliest year stamped on euro coins
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18:30:03 <planetmaker> is that server functional again?
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19:11:41 <andythenorth> is 64 cargo FIRS yet? o_O
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20:12:46 <berndj> are 2x2 city blocks better than 2x3? (or even 2x4 or more) i kinda like "dense" cities and having 55% of the space taken up by roads rather than 50% seems sub-optimal
20:18:21 <planetmaker> it doesn't matter really @ berndj
20:18:52 <planetmaker> berndj, it's only important that the houses have road contact. That means that 3x3 grid might not work well. But anything 2xn works
20:19:00 <berndj> i just wish cities didn't build their own roads so bizarrely lol
20:19:10 <planetmaker> as long as there's an occasional perpendicular road :)
20:19:32 <planetmaker> berndj, there's the config option to choose the city road build pattern. Regular ones are available
20:19:36 <berndj> does it have to be lateral contact? i.e. not corner contact?
20:19:50 <planetmaker> indeed. corner is no contact
20:20:01 <berndj> is build pattern newish? i haven't seen such an option, but i'm on about 1.3 or 1.4
20:20:20 <planetmaker> new... no. But 1.3 is not new either. It's 5 years old
20:20:52 <berndj> sometimes i have 3x3 blocks and just have a single-square road to get to the middle house
20:22:08 <planetmaker> (svn r12534) -Feature: Add a new type of town road layouts - random for each town
20:22:15 <planetmaker> That must be older than a decade ;)
20:26:30 <planetmaker> Date: Tue Apr 1 16:27:01 2008 +0000
20:26:56 <planetmaker> skidd13... long time ago :)
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22:17:06 <while> I turn off local road building, and layout the towns in a custom manor
22:17:43 <while> also lower all towns to sea level, and build canals around them, if I want to build an airport, just let in some lake, build canals as it fills my desired selection
22:17:58 <while> then bulldoze the water, and plob an airport
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22:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> now imagine some real world dictator would do that
22:57:08 <nielsm> hmm, I know newgrfs can change the base costs of all kinds of things, can they also change it based on year?
22:57:38 <nielsm> (maybe even based on map coordinates of the action?)
22:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it is only evaluated on game start/load
22:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it wouldn't be much of a "base" cost if it were different depending on location
22:59:59 <peter1138> Yeah, base cost is not variable.
23:00:11 <nielsm> same for costs of bridge types
23:01:00 <nielsm> was reading random things the other day, and it might make sense to model that certain types of construction have changed relative costs depending on technology and societal norms
23:02:19 <frosch123> cost only matters in the first 10 game years though
23:02:23 <nielsm> moving large amounts of dirt was infeasible until maybe after WW2? but making huge wooden constructions was easier to get done with large groups of workers
23:02:48 <nielsm> yeah and it's sad that every builder game ends up as a sandbox after getting the base income :)
23:04:17 <frosch123> i wouldn't consider that sad :p
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