IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-06-04
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00:30:05 <andythenorth> oops, spider solitaire :(
00:30:08 <andythenorth> way past bedtime :P
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10:49:48 <peter1138> Ah, so, Microsoft Github.
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10:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that is surely going to convince anybody...
10:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you know what would be a great idea? migrating away from github :p
11:12:59 <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: I mean...
11:13:12 <Flygon> gitlab's apparently struggling with the mass migration atm. :P
11:13:28 <Flygon> Difficulty level is if Microsoft somehow figures out how to buy gitlab. :V
11:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "Links antäuschen und rechts schießen"
11:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm convinced there's an english equivalent of football metaphors like that)
11:14:59 <Flygon> Well, I know what what you typed wasn't "They shot an own goal".
11:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's making the opponent think you're shooting with the left foot, and then do it with the right one
11:29:14 <Flygon> Yeah, I don't know the phrase either.
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11:49:30 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: hey, i suggested gitlab from the start :p
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15:11:47 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder if a whole ton of newgrf properties/callbacks should actually only ever be performed on vehicle creation.
15:38:17 <peter1138> Doesn't concern me.
15:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that needs a more powerful purchase window
15:40:53 <peter1138> Or properties could get "set" when changing the consist (in the depot)
15:41:10 <peter1138> So, er, when they get split by shunting, because that's the thread I was looking at, nothing changes.
15:41:48 <peter1138> I should work on the promised patches before I get distracted :S
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15:58:02 <m3henry> Yeah, I do like that a lot
15:58:27 <V453000> :0 Microsoft to rule them all
16:01:53 <peter1138> Whatever happened to running sounds...
16:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> aw damn, the tiny-insects-that-crawl-into-monitors season has begun, and i can't have any open windows anymore
16:02:20 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: pikka decided they were a BAD FEATURE and removed them
16:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't understand the reasoning either
16:02:50 <peter1138> Perhaps we should've had separate volume controls for different things, like other games...
16:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what? modern UI?
16:05:27 <andythenorth> volume per train? o_O
16:06:21 <peter1138> Master, UI, ambient, running?
16:06:23 <Eddi|zuHause> volume per levelcrossing
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16:10:52 <andythenorth> new menu for choosing the sound effect, per vehicle
16:11:01 <andythenorth> or via ctrl-click :P
16:11:42 <andythenorth> and we only just switched to GitHub too :(
16:11:44 <m3henry> tracker style interface for configuring sounds
16:11:53 <andythenorth> now where will we move to?
16:12:29 <m3henry> As I understand it, you have the rsources for self-hosting
16:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause> err, the move to github was partly because of getting away from self-hosting
16:14:42 <m3henry> Well bitbucket is popular
16:15:17 <andythenorth> or if there is, I couldn't find it :)
16:18:14 <LordAro> as i said from the start :p
16:18:57 <m3henry> At work we intended to host a GitLab server, but never got around to it. I personally hosted Gogs
16:20:06 <andythenorth> LordAro: can you find the gitlab 'Community' edition on their site?
16:20:16 <andythenorth> it's referenced as free for open source, but I can't find the plan
16:20:46 <andythenorth> ping me if I forget :P
16:22:04 <peter1138> Don't have any issue with the news myself.
16:22:29 <andythenorth> tbh, microsoft are currently tyhe
16:22:33 <andythenorth> the winning tech company
16:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it's fine, while they are still in "embrace" mode
16:23:03 <andythenorth> Apple have stacked it into the cliff, Google is Evil, and Amazon is Amazon
16:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but it definitely won't stay this way
16:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> if trump doesn't burn everything down, microsoft will in 5 years...
16:24:28 <andythenorth> nah, that's not SaaS
16:24:47 <LordAro> oh, you mean the site itself
16:25:10 <andythenorth> gitlab SaaS looks commercial
16:25:21 <andythenorth> the free version is relatively limited (fair enough)
16:25:43 <LordAro> wait, what do you mean?
16:27:51 <m3henry> Would you intend to move the building in to the CI?
16:29:21 * LordAro is confused about andythenorth's confusion
16:30:23 <andythenorth> is there a way to have a free license for an organisation on gitlab>
16:30:50 <LordAro> isn't it just the same as github? you create one
16:30:59 <m3henry> What about GNU Savannah?
16:31:10 <peter1138> All the plans mention DevOps. Are they all hipsters?
16:31:34 <peter1138> github is fine, it's not going anywhere yet :p
16:32:11 <andythenorth> I just think we'll have more 'github is evil' rage quits from potential contributors
16:32:16 <andythenorth> more than we already had
16:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, i haven't seen any evidence that the other "cloud" storages are any less evil
16:33:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: we're supposed to host our own, in a bedrom, on ADSl
16:33:47 <andythenorth> because that's provably not evil
16:34:28 <andythenorth> and we should build our own hardware too
16:34:46 <andythenorth> because government opens hardware shipments of servers and networking gear
16:34:50 <andythenorth> and inserts invisible malware
16:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that is definitely a thing that actually happened :p
16:35:59 <andythenorth> unrelated, there is a great write up of Stuxnet recently
16:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's not the primary reason why "closed" hardware is a bad idea
16:36:49 <andythenorth> it's very interesting
16:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm half sure i heard a talk about that
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17:05:59 <Alberth> we switch to github, en promotly microsoft caquires github????!!!
17:07:03 <peter1138> We were obviously the deciding factor, yes.
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17:29:08 <FLHerne> As pointed out by someone on Reddit, there are no Debian Stretch builds
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18:03:20 <LordAro> FLHerne: there's no nightly at all at the moment
18:03:38 <LordAro> ubuntu builds are similarly broken due to the ICU issue
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18:56:19 <peter1138> Yeah, we don't have *any* builds at the moment :p
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18:58:23 <andythenorth> maybe that's a thing :P
19:01:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is the idea something like: sandbox sub-consists, don't let newgrf read vars outside them?
19:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that, yes
19:04:41 <andythenorth> no more liveries based on lead engine eh :)
19:04:52 <andythenorth> or would we just sandbox cb36 & friends?
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19:07:04 <andythenorth> gets interesting if consist templates is ever a thing :P
19:07:16 <andythenorth> I am -1 on all the shunting stuff for my games, but it's pretty neat
19:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just afraid it won't be nearly as flexible as the feature that exists in my head
19:08:28 <andythenorth> somehow, consists templates are the same thing as shunting :P
19:08:36 <andythenorth> there's just an implementation detail about splitting at stations :P
19:10:09 <andythenorth> peter1138: dunno what I did wrong, but 6803 seems to compile for me
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19:45:32 <Wolf01> The problem is: how 64 types will integrate with BGT?
19:50:10 <andythenorth> also, with 64 types, can we have non-buildable types, to bridge the compatibility crap? o_O
19:50:44 <Wolf01> That's another story, I already asked that saturday
19:53:49 <andythenorth> it's not April 1
19:59:49 <LANJesus> how long until search is powered by bing?
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20:44:28 <peter1138> andythenorth, well, it's a diff, but... contains other stuff.
20:45:05 <peter1138> andythenorth, if you did git diff master, then it would be reverting changes that are in master but not the branch.
20:54:57 <Wolf01> It shouldn't be a problem
20:55:06 <peter1138> I mean, you're probably right, it's all unlikely to get in
20:55:57 <glx> Wolf01: there's even 2 links to blog posts when you visit github
20:56:38 <Wolf01> Yeah, I noticed them after the usual RSS reading
21:04:08 <andythenorth> peter1138: well 6803 does compile for me :P I am on OS X 10.12, CF claims to be 10.9
21:04:11 <peter1138> Yes but everyone's too busy moaning about Github
21:04:14 <andythenorth> just wondering if I'm wrong
21:33:51 <LANJesus> meh stfu about MSFT acquisition. there's nothing you can do except petition them to not be dicks about it
21:34:05 <LANJesus> though if they are dicks, everyone will just flee to gitlab or something
21:40:56 <nielsm> I think it'll be more interesting how many of the internal developers on github stay
21:41:25 <nielsm> if half the team behind it leaves or are moved elsewhere, that's more likely to cause trouble
21:52:26 <Neon> Don't know if you can help me with this. We have installed FIRS 3, just started a new server with EXTREME economy and some train trailers appear to be for different cargos. E.g. the oil tanker transports bauxite and the wood truck clay. We only have zbase and FIRS 3 installed. No other mods. Is there a possibility to switch cargo or something?
21:53:18 <Wolf01> You need a trainset compatible with firs
21:54:15 <ST2> shhh, dnt blame andythenorth... or he'll break FIRS again :D
21:54:43 <Neon> Do you happen to know a trainset working with FIRS?
21:55:12 <Neon> Will we have to start a new game?
21:55:18 <ST2> standard: OpenGFX+trains - or Iron Horse
21:57:58 <Neon> Can you recommend me one? :P
21:58:22 <Neon> I see that NUTS adds some crazy stuff?!
22:00:18 <V453000> 100% objective, was on TV verified info
22:00:51 <Neon> OpenGFX+ is more near to TTD defaults?
22:02:04 <andythenorth> V453000 fake news
22:03:19 <Neon> Thank you for your quick help. I'm happy this channel is still active.
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22:36:16 <peter1138> identifier "SAFEGUARD_DO_NOT_USE_THIS_METHOD" is undefined
22:36:27 <peter1138> I wonder what method that is, though.
22:45:43 <peter1138> I'm trying to compile PR 6798
22:46:03 <peter1138> (Which also doesn't use it, but triggers the error)
22:47:07 <michi_cc> What strange compiler are you using? MSVC 2017 seems fine :)
22:48:32 <peter1138> I'm using MSVC 2017.
22:49:04 <peter1138> Says it's compiling string.cpp
22:49:12 <peter1138> But doesn't give a line number.
22:49:26 <peter1138> File xlocale, line 697.
22:49:41 <peter1138> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio\2017\Community\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.12.25827\include\xlocale
22:50:51 <Wolf01> It loaded base libraries?
22:50:54 <Neon> How can we set what kind of cargo the train carriages can carry?
22:51:14 <peter1138> Click on the refit button.
22:51:44 <michi_cc> peter1138: That's not the current toolset, check if you're running version 15.7.3.
22:52:18 <Neon> peter1138: Where is it? :(
22:53:40 <peter1138> michi_cc, well, okay, I'll update. But it compiles fine before these changes o_O
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23:00:26 <michi_cc> peter1138: Dos moving the include from string.cpp:599 to the top help?
23:00:41 <peter1138> Can't test, it's upgrading :p
23:15:53 <peter1138> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio\2017\Community\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.14.26428\include\xlocale
23:16:08 <peter1138> Same error, in that version.
23:16:26 <peter1138> Running 15.7.3 now.
23:17:40 <peter1138> Yeah, if the include is before safeguards.h it'll compile.
23:22:20 <michi_cc> I still have no idea how my Visual Studio compiles it just fine.
23:24:47 <peter1138> Also I get another error but that's DMUSIC related, not this PR.
23:25:09 <peter1138> And that might be something to do with the useful package.
23:25:22 <peter1138> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State
23:25:22 <peter1138> Warning C4005 'FACILITY_DIRECTMUSIC': macro redefinition (compiling source file ..\src\music\dmusic.cpp) openttd c:\users\peter\source\openttd essentials\shared\include\dmerror.h 12
23:25:31 <peter1138> Ooops, that pasted badly :(
23:25:57 <michi_cc> peter1138: Yeah, it shoul work if you just remove all directmusic files that come from ottd-useful. The rewritten code needs SDK headers only.
23:26:23 <peter1138> It still compiles but yeah
23:26:38 <peter1138> I figured it was something like that.
23:27:33 <michi_cc> The dmerror.h we ship is some crazy old version. We had an #undef for that macro to remove the warning, but the current SDK dmerror.h does not define the macro, so the #undef causes it to fail.
23:28:50 <peter1138> I think TrueBrain was working on just not needing that thing
23:34:01 <ST2> daaaamn: peter1138 (#3862/a.b.c.d.7.6.5.5.0.6.5.4.6.7.d.9.1.f.e.8.d.d.5.6.0.b.8.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa <<-- that's a really weird ons :D
23:38:20 <peter1138> I don't get to control what weird ass stuff my ISP does for rdns :p
23:38:22 <ST2> I just needed some chats with my friendly search engine :D
23:38:53 <ST2> imo, that's the perfect one - confuses the hell :D
23:43:07 <peter1138> Well it seems to has valid forward and reverse DNS, but I have no idea why they've done it like that o_O
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