IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-05-11
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04:59:55 <ccfreak2k> openttd is on github now?
04:59:59 <ccfreak2k> ...wait, it wasn't before?
05:04:34 <arahael> Pretty sure openttd predates github.
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05:21:12 <CNRDEIfnkr> YOU GUYS ARE BEING PARTY POOPERS!! LOL LOL LOL COME TO iяс.sцреяиетs.ояg сни sцреявоwl FOR A REAL PARTY!! FOR INFO ASK FOR CHRONO
05:21:17 <CNRDEIfnkr> sla_ro|master Flygon muffindrake4 snail_UES_ sim-al2 tokai|noir Cubey ccfreak2k rocky1138 KenjiE20 Compu debdog johnwhitlow[m] grossing peter1138 juzza1 Alkel_U3 argoneus_ orudge Rubidium Sheogorath APTX_ ericnoan gnu_jj_ Markk Mavy Yexo fonsinchen Webster m1cr0man TrueBrain avdg jonty-comp
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05:21:44 <Flygon> God dammit not Supernets again.
05:24:17 <ccfreak2k> well duh but I didn't think about openttd not hopping on the github train
05:34:12 <snail_UES_> is ottd still available on svn?
05:34:22 <snail_UES_> the other day I tried to fetch it and I couldn’t
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06:47:24 <LANJesus> openttd predates git
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07:47:28 <peter1138> ccfreak2k, it was on github but only as clone from SVN. Now it is the canonical source and svn is read-only.
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14:31:32 <karan_> which grf setting will be used for meglavs
14:32:18 <karan_> which grf setting will be used for meglavs@arveen
14:33:27 <karan_> its a train set used in the game in transport tycoon
14:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen one
14:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, you spoled it :p
14:34:34 <Arveen> i have been summoned by blinking icons
14:34:49 <TrueBrain> yes, leaving you two alone with people is rarely a productive conversation Eddi|zuHause :)
14:36:00 <karan_> which grf setting will be used for meglavs
14:36:20 <TrueBrain> they are called maglevs, and they are in any game
14:37:17 <karan_> i was talking abt transport tycoon in pertcular
14:37:47 <TrueBrain> well, I guess 'any game' refered to 'any game with OpenTTD'
14:38:02 <TrueBrain> I am sure there is no extension to chess which adds maglevs indeed :)
14:38:13 <TrueBrain> although that would be a game I would be playing
14:46:32 <supermop_work> "maglev leaves board at 500kmh, flattens rook enroute"
14:47:19 <peter1138> Hurr, 750ms per tick in this game o_O
14:47:42 <TrueBrain> good luck getting to 30fps :P
14:48:00 <LordAro> TrueBrain: implying that your addition to the conversation improves it? :p
14:48:12 <peter1138> It's debug-level 3 mind you. It's about 120ms per tick on a normal build.
14:48:21 <peter1138> Still far short but still "playable"
14:48:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro: where did I imply that?! :o
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14:48:49 <TrueBrain> and I did try .. clearly it was not going to happen
14:48:51 <peter1138> If I stop all of the 5500 roade vehicles, the time drops to 200ms per tick (with debug 3)
14:49:05 <peter1138> Do we have a road vehicle performance issue? :p
14:49:14 <TrueBrain> no, you have 5500 vehicles :)
14:49:27 <peter1138> Yeah, probably just all that pathfinding with road networks.
14:49:47 <TrueBrain> pretty sure most of the game is O(n) with N is the amount of vehicles :)
14:49:49 <peter1138> Towns tend to generate lots of very similar path costs.
15:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> there were some versions of the game where a lot of trains waiting at red signals would cause slowdowns
15:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe roadvehicles have a similar congestion slowdown
15:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> like the calculation whether it's possible to overtake and stuff
15:16:56 <TrueBrain> nice work peter1138 :) Seems very sensible :)
15:17:02 <TrueBrain> just a few magic numbers that are rather odd in value :D
15:17:18 <peter1138> Pretty much just translated.
15:17:41 <TrueBrain> yeah .. they already made no sense :P
15:17:45 <TrueBrain> 0xff .. I mean . .wuth?! :P
15:17:51 <TrueBrain> I like the TimerElapsed :)
15:17:54 <TrueBrain> nice solution there :)
15:18:40 <peter1138> However I'm tempted to put a new function in next to the main game loop, calculate the delta there, and not shove everything from the UpdateWindows() function.
15:19:00 <TrueBrain> like you said, this yells for more refactoring :)
15:19:03 <TrueBrain> but one step at the time :P
15:19:25 <peter1138> Like scrolling the map with keyboard... affected by ffwd.
15:19:42 <peter1138> Well, even edge scroll was.
15:20:05 <peter1138> But the function InputLoop() is very odd now.
15:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i almost always pause before scrolling
15:20:24 <TrueBrain> with peter1138's patch you no longer have to! :P
15:20:45 <peter1138> Don't think it affects Eddi|zuHause's usage :)
15:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and by "almost always" i mean "5 years ago" :p
15:21:05 <TrueBrain> but the reason why he does it might be solved now :P
15:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played a proper game since i started CETS
15:24:02 <TrueBrain> hmm .. to setup sentry myself, or to request an open source project free thingy ..
15:24:06 <TrueBrain> effort vs reward ..
15:28:49 <peter1138> For reporting bugs?
15:29:32 <TrueBrain> from the web-backends, yes
15:29:58 <TrueBrain> so it also creates a ticket in the right projects on github again
15:30:01 <TrueBrain> in the hope they get fixed :P
15:31:16 <TrueBrain> (stuff like BaNaNaS2)
15:31:28 <TrueBrain> also trying to figure out how to make it part of a CD
15:31:41 <TrueBrain> so that when you tag shit, it also gets deployed ASAP
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17:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, cities skylines goes rollercoaster tycoon?
17:21:07 <peter1138> I bet they did all that without having a spec.
17:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in a modern language
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18:10:09 <andythenorth> peter1138: I need 36 railtypes
18:18:43 <Rubidium> andythenorth: so Bill's 640k is enough still holds ;)
18:25:11 <andythenorth> how many bytes is a railtype then?
18:28:13 <andythenorth> I reckon I need 320k railtypes
18:28:21 <andythenorth> and then maybe room for 1 more
18:29:24 <peter1138> I wonder how that patch affects performance :p
18:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can have any number of railtypes, as long as you're willing to extend The Holy Maparray. the bigger problem is that you need to redesign the GUI
18:31:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think you're missing the point
18:31:14 <andythenorth> users don't need to be able to use the railtypes
18:31:23 <andythenorth> they just need to be able to load them
18:31:44 <andythenorth> if we restrict content creators, they won't create enough content fast enough
18:31:54 <andythenorth> WITH MORE IN IT!
18:32:09 <andythenorth> OTHERWISE OPENTTD WILL DIE
18:33:53 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, easy, just add a scrollbar to the menu :D
18:34:19 <peter1138> Clearly I need rail types to cover speed limit increments of 1km/h.
18:34:38 <peter1138> We might as well just add a 32-bit integer to the array.
18:34:43 <peter1138> I mean, it's only 32 bits!
18:35:06 <andythenorth> making choices is bad
18:35:10 <andythenorth> make content instead
18:35:28 <andythenorth> oops now I sound like what Eddi says to me
18:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> quantity is everything
18:36:15 <andythenorth> why is it 16 roadtypes not 32?
18:36:28 <andythenorth> the only reason I can find in the spec is that it fits neatly in m8
18:36:37 <andythenorth> without strewing bits everywhere
18:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that's pretty much it
18:36:53 <andythenorth> and I probably said '16 types is enough'
18:37:02 <andythenorth> leaving bits free for future ideas
18:37:23 <peter1138> And it matches railtypes.
18:37:30 <peter1138> Which is 4 bits because it was always 4 bits.
18:37:50 <peter1138> Alternatively it's because we are evil developers who like to impose arbitrary limits for no reason!
18:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if you make it 5 bits you might just as well make it 8 bits
18:38:30 <andythenorth> peter1138: but I do like imposing arbitrary limits
18:38:33 <andythenorth> 32 solves nothing
18:38:51 <andythenorth> with 32, incontinent authors just design up to the limit
18:39:01 <andythenorth> if they can find 16 trivially, they'll find 32
18:39:10 <andythenorth> so one still can't combine multiple newgrfs
18:39:16 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not exactly. There might be 2 bits available without extending the array, but not 4.
18:39:30 <andythenorth> 65k in a pool might solve it :P
18:40:02 <andythenorth> actually pool is irrelevant, no idea why I typed that, but 65k is the best limit
18:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: maybe we should replace the maparray with NoSQL?
18:40:47 <glx> xml is better, easy to edit ;)
18:41:00 <peter1138> json is all the rage these days.
18:41:11 <peter1138> json within nosql, of course.
18:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (must shy away from joke about blockchain)
18:41:23 <peter1138> Didn't someone suggest that the other day?
18:41:38 <peter1138> A savegame is nothing but a list of commands...
18:41:39 <andythenorth> I think blockchain is valid
18:41:45 <andythenorth> I see no problem with it
18:41:52 <andythenorth> savegame is just hashes no?
18:41:58 <peter1138> Each client just has to run through the game from the start :D
18:42:15 <andythenorth> that sounds nice
18:42:35 <andythenorth> does each run generate one coin?
18:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: yeah, because running 100 years in fastforward is quicker than downloading 5MB of savegame?
18:42:50 <andythenorth> seriously we should do an ICO offering based on playing OpenTTD
18:42:56 <andythenorth> completing a scenario generates a coin
18:43:13 <peter1138> Hmm, might be able to get away with making railtypes 8 bits :p
18:43:32 <andythenorth> "You won Silicon Valley GS, you have 1 ottdcoin"
18:43:44 <peter1138> But 255 is quite ludicrous.
18:44:01 <andythenorth> the limits need to be big enough to stop people whining
18:44:03 <peter1138> Also, beyond 32 you have issues with bitmasks no longer being simple.
18:44:14 <andythenorth> otherwise they piss around making lists of '32 vs 4'
18:44:32 <andythenorth> "But nobody needs canal road with streetlamps!!!!"
18:44:48 * andythenorth wonders if forum posts can mine coins
18:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been bitcoinminers built into websites, so they run in the browser while the tab is open
18:46:50 <andythenorth> I want a mechanic where you actually have to make lists of stuff
18:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause> lists as in "you won't believe people made these 13 suggestions"?
18:47:54 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: your crypted message about "Canada" was too vague to respond to; sorry :P
18:48:25 <andythenorth> TrueBrain I was looking for Canadian cloud hosting vendors
18:48:32 <andythenorth> Canadian market looks a bit lame
18:48:35 <TrueBrain> nothing ever good came from doing that :P
18:48:40 <andythenorth> we think we have a solution now
18:49:08 <andythenorth> we have a solution where we're using OVH and someone else
18:49:23 <andythenorth> I think we're backing up to OVH because none of the low $ vendors have any backup solution
18:49:37 <andythenorth> it's all single DC stuff
18:50:15 <andythenorth> usually we just use someone like rackspace and their block storage for backup, which they replicate to multiple physical locations
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18:51:08 <andythenorth> cloud hosting is a total PITA outside the handful of major markets
18:51:56 <glx> like current binaries distribution ?
18:52:09 <TrueBrain> that is a private CDN :)
18:53:26 <peter1138> Hmm, oops, forgot that now it's a PR every commit means a CI build.
18:53:49 <TrueBrain> keeping it busy is good for it :)
18:54:16 <glx> costs the same used or not I guess
18:56:41 <peter1138> Hmm, so some AIs expect infrastructure costs to be off.
18:57:09 <peter1138> Dunno, I don't play with AI generaLly.
18:57:23 <TrueBrain> that has been an issue from the start .. they have a hard time making profit with it on
18:57:23 <peter1138> How did that uppercase get there...
18:57:26 <TrueBrain> (as most humans do :P)
18:57:47 <peter1138> I need to slow my i7 down. FFWD is too quick :p
18:58:30 <peter1138> It's weird cos I know every frame is drawn, but you don't see them all.
18:58:34 <TrueBrain> I have a cryptominer for you?
18:58:44 <Rubidium> peter1138: remove the cooler
18:58:45 <peter1138> It'd need to use all 6 cores I suppose.
18:59:30 <peter1138> No symbols so I'll just assume it's ICU.
18:59:58 <LordAro> reasonable assumption
19:02:14 <peter1138> Hmm, lots of exceptions reported when an AI is running.
19:03:18 <peter1138> It's okay, running a debug build is enough to make it much slower.
19:04:08 <glx> enable bounding boxes and it should slow things too
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19:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> I need to slow my i7 down. FFWD is too quick :p <-- remember when computers had "turbo" buttons?
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19:40:11 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: not a bad idea, he can just underclock his CPUs easily
20:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> does cat have a turbo button?
20:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that does what you think it does
20:44:10 <andythenorth> I keep trying it in my web browser
20:44:32 <andythenorth> I should file a chrome bug
20:44:39 <andythenorth> "ffwd isn't working"
21:39:52 <Wolf01> I do it while at work, but 10 hours are 10 hours
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22:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you spend 10 hours pressing tab at work?
22:31:30 <Wolf01> Tab is one of the main keys at my work
22:31:51 <Wolf01> Autocompletion and other stuff works with that
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23:34:09 <peter1138> Wolf01 already has my patches, so FFWD doesn't make it any faster ;(
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