IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-04-22
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00:00:21 <TrueBrain> conspirency if you ask me
00:06:51 <TrueBrain> right; night for me too :)
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00:22:21 <TrueBrain> fun fact: disk usage went from 30 GiB to 55 GiB after installing 1 Windows update ... :(
00:52:48 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you can generally clean a lot of that up
00:59:02 <GT> What is currently the best train AI, I did not follow the AIs for some time
01:01:34 <glx> <TrueBrain> fun fact: disk usage went from 30 GiB to 55 GiB after installing 1 Windows update ... :( <-- that's because windows.old (it will go away by itself after some time)
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08:15:27 <Alberth> hello andy and albert!
08:16:14 <Alberth> mr aro will consider balance somewhat disturbed :p
08:17:02 <Pikka> a disturbance in the farce?
08:21:17 <Alberth> too many alberts online at the same time
08:24:09 * Pikka is only a pretend Albert
08:25:14 <Pikka> it was one of my grandfather's middle names, but I got the other one :)
08:25:41 <Alberth> so balance should be ok, phew!
08:28:19 <peter1138> Or maybe that's bloats...
08:29:10 <andythenorth> does anyone know why NRT forbids downgrade?
08:29:21 <peter1138> Might give cycling a miss today, my legs are still a bit iffy after Friday night and Saturday's effort
08:29:21 <andythenorth> but I can't see it
08:29:31 <ZehMatt> how many of you are actually playing OpenTTD once a while?
08:29:34 <andythenorth> players are complaining
08:29:46 <andythenorth> now we have to add more BS error messages to game
08:29:56 <andythenorth> maybe for bogus reasons
08:30:12 <peter1138> andythenorth, just let them change colours per group, then they'll all shut up and be happy.
08:31:05 <peter1138> Signal: Floating point exception (8)
08:31:15 <peter1138> I tried to divide by zero ;(
08:31:27 <Pikka> you mad impulsive fool you
08:35:07 <Alberth> ZehMatt: depending how often "once in a while" means, somewhere between nobody and a few, is my guess
08:35:46 <Alberth> at least for the people that say words here
08:35:47 <ZehMatt> im having trouble playing games where I have access to the code :v
08:35:59 <ZehMatt> for odd reasons im having more fun messing with that
08:36:14 <ZehMatt> so im wondering if im alone here
08:36:22 <Alberth> yep, playing code games is more satisfying :p
08:36:48 <andythenorth> the game of OpenTTD is making the game
08:37:26 <ZehMatt> i never played transport tycoon imho
08:37:33 <ZehMatt> and only a few times OpenTTD with a friend
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08:38:01 <peter1138> Oh, I broke it again.
08:38:04 <ZehMatt> also gotta admit nice project
08:38:27 <Alberth> forever finding new ways to break the program, peter?
08:38:51 <ZehMatt> since its chris sawyers code I can see alot of resemblence from RCT2
08:39:52 <ZehMatt> i can see a lot of things that are close to identical
08:40:58 <peter1138> Do you mean OpenRCT2?
08:41:02 <Alberth> yep, he has been selling basically the same program 4-5 times or so :)
08:41:11 <ZehMatt> well yeah I work on that project
08:41:39 <ZehMatt> i began fixing the multiplayer desyncs there a year ago
08:41:50 <ZehMatt> and other strange things that i found over the time
08:43:35 <peter1138> The original code for both was x86 assembly, so...
08:45:37 <ZehMatt> you guys also changed how the isometric sorting works
08:45:45 <ZehMatt> orct2 still uses the vanilla variant and its pittyful
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09:42:57 <andythenorth> black nose or CC nose
09:44:19 <Pikka> cc nose with black vent, I think
09:45:15 <Pikka> or maybe vary by livery... I like the black nose on the grey/yellow
09:46:21 <Pikka> yes, cc nose with black vent :P
09:48:25 <andythenorth> good, CC nose is best
09:48:30 <andythenorth> realism says black but eh
09:48:52 <andythenorth> windows disappear with black
09:50:31 <andythenorth> I absolutely can't remember why NRT forbids downgrade
09:50:42 <andythenorth> I checked logs, and it's *not* to prevent deliberate griefin
09:51:45 <Wolf01> Forbids downgrade in towns so you can't disrupt an electrified network made by another player
09:51:56 <Wolf01> Since town roads can be converted by any player
09:52:17 <andythenorth> hmm I'm missing the transcript
09:52:44 <Wolf01> The discussion was about "if I convert town roads, who'll get the ownership?" we decided to let town keep the ownership of town roads
09:52:55 <peter1138> Hmm, Garmin Edge 130, £170 :S
09:53:29 <andythenorth> ok so the 'no downgrade' is to prevent griefing?
09:53:42 <Wolf01> Yes, you wanted that really much
09:53:52 <peter1138> My 25 was £50 in Aldi, that was a bargain. But its battery life is dropping.
09:54:52 <andythenorth> there must be logs from another day where I changed my mind about griefing
09:55:42 <andythenorth> the rule seemed to be that all town roads must be compatible with ROAD always
09:56:27 <Wolf01> You can't convert town roads to HAUL
09:56:47 <andythenorth> but you also can't downgrade your own roads?
09:57:13 <Wolf01> With your roads you can do anything you want
09:58:16 <andythenorth> apparently convert is only upwards
09:58:25 <andythenorth> I haven't tested mind you
09:58:35 <andythenorth> I'm going by reports of my least-favourite forum poster
09:58:45 <Wolf01> Not the town roads you converted, but the ones you buiild
10:00:06 <Wolf01> Also I don't seem to be able to split the NRT patch to simple ones... I'm stuck on the cost calculation stuff now :(
10:00:21 <Wolf01> We changed that part a lot
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10:04:31 <peter1138> Does cost calculation need to change initially?
10:05:42 <Wolf01> The cost for NRT is based on the subtype, every road can define it's own, so no more "count bits and sum an hardcoded cost"
10:06:53 <peter1138> Yes, but initially, patch-splitting-wise, there won't be extra subtypes.
10:07:49 <Wolf01> Yes, but the problem is that we use also RoadTypeIdentifiers in place of Roadtypes, and stuff like bitwise operations need to be changed accordingly
10:09:02 <arahael> So, I have about 35k units of cargo delivered to a particular station (trains only).
10:09:18 <arahael> I'm wondering what the max capacity of a station is, under ideal conditions. (12x7)
10:09:24 <Pikka> andythenorth, can you upgrade other players' roads?
10:09:34 <andythenorth> not according to spec
10:09:39 <andythenorth> only yours and unowned (TOWN)
10:09:50 <andythenorth> actually iirc, town is owner NONE
10:10:03 <andythenorth> can't remember about bankrupts
10:10:25 <arahael> Pikka: My town has an open sewer. Every resident complains about it. It's owned by a railway station... We've covered *every* open sewer except for that one. I woudl therefore suggest that it's realistic not being able to upgrade another player's road.
10:10:27 <Wolf01> Owner_none is for SE placed roads or bankruptcy companies
10:10:39 <arahael> Pikka: Why, afterall, would you give another company money to upgrade *their* road?
10:11:07 <Pikka> arahael: because you want to build your highway across their dirt track
10:11:22 <arahael> Pikka: You'd need to buy the road.
10:12:15 <Pikka> perhaps. I was just offering it as a possible reason for "no downgrading roads". if you can upgrade other players' roads, it makes sense you can only upgrade them to better and compatible road types.
10:12:22 <Wolf01> In any way, you are still free to put tramways over other players' roads, like it's now
10:12:35 <Wolf01> Or roads under other players' tramways
10:12:44 <arahael> Pikka: I don't think I'd want to allow other companies to upgrade _my_ roads, if it gives them a further competitive advantage.
10:12:50 <Alberth> I don't think you can win in all situations
10:12:55 <arahael> Pikka: I'd only appreciate the upgrade if I was about ot make use of it myself.
10:13:00 <Wolf01> Unless the road/tram spec forbids to build the other basetype
10:14:07 * arahael has 35k units of cargo per month delivered to this particular station, and 24 billion dollars. Hmm.
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10:23:40 <peter1138> So I added a scrollbar to the livery window and now it doesn't resize :S
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10:41:53 <Wolf01> I would just put cost.AddCost(_price[PR_BUILD_ROAD] * (2 - num_roadbits)); on both road and tram parts and remove the cost.AddCost(_price[PR_BUILD_ROAD] * roadbits_to_build);
11:04:51 <peter1138> Hmm, so in an old version, the red flag was placed at the front of the vehicle chain, not before the unit number.
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11:14:42 <peter1138> But the alignment is good there.
11:15:46 <peter1138> Hmm, and it's fine in master.
11:16:12 <peter1138> When interface size is normal.
11:17:09 <peter1138> On double the flag moves down, the text moves up
11:18:25 <Wolf01> So, I made it compile and run, now check what's broken
11:18:45 <Wolf01> Ok, I can't build roads
11:19:20 <Wolf01> But bridges and tunnels yes
11:20:36 <peter1138> That solves the issue :D
11:21:11 <Wolf01> I can't start a new game because towns can't build roads, so they can't be found
11:28:54 <Wolf01> Passed a Roadtype instead of a RoadTypeIdentifier
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11:34:12 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah ... I did all that work to find out Windows is even more shit than I expected ... Windows 10 Pro can only run Docker containers via Hyper-V with a mini-kernel loaded in there ... takes at least 1 GB of RAM
11:34:24 <TrueBrain> Windows 2016 Server is the only one who can run containers on process level
11:34:39 <TrueBrain> WHY do they just fuck up any oppurtinity to be awesome, and make it gated behind other installations etc
11:34:52 <TrueBrain> so .. I am going to install Windows Server 2016 I guess ..... *facepalm*
11:36:48 <arahael> TrueBrain: "containers on a process level"? Where do I read up on those?
11:37:18 <TrueBrain> hidden in 3 levels of documentation, but I found it by clicking on Compatbility in the Docker for Windows documentation
11:37:41 <arahael> TrueBrain: That's so typical. :( Do you have a link? I don't have windows at home... ;)
11:38:00 * arahael keeps that crap at work.
11:38:02 <peter1138> Hmm, I'm sure we had some code that scaled stuff by gui zoom level, but I can't find it now.
11:38:08 <TrueBrain> its on the web; so you can even find it at home :)
11:38:16 <TrueBrain> and no, I ragequit last night .. :(
11:39:46 <TrueBrain> arahael: just google for windows server 2016 containers
11:41:33 <arahael> TrueBrain: I found a blog that describes it... On technet.microsoft.com. It's "scheduled for migration".
11:41:39 <arahael> Is this 1990 again? :)
11:41:50 <TrueBrain> it seriously is really horrible
11:41:57 <TrueBrain> the whole experience they created around it
11:42:23 <TrueBrain> the one that ticked me off most last night ... then you have docker running ... you make your first docker image ... and it needs to download 6 GB ... which extracts to over 10 GB ...
11:42:29 <arahael> TrueBrain: I've been getting re-acquanted with ASP.NET lately. It's really really good, for microsoft stuff. But man, their documetnation about it is seriously awful.
11:42:33 <TrueBrain> it completely ruins the whole concept Docker was trying to set
11:42:59 <arahael> Docker has become really heavy and bloated in the enterprise.
11:43:15 <arahael> It's purely become a means of versioning your build configurations/setups.
11:44:09 <arahael> It's stuff like this that makes me content with... Literally shipping coal in openttd. :) (Yep: That's my current game: Ship ALL THE COAL, to the one station)
11:44:29 <arahael> I'm discovering that the train network itself is quite a bottleneck.
11:46:50 <Wolf01> Nice, everything works, road build roads, tramway build roads... ehrm
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11:53:35 <andythenorth_> Pikka: 1990: class 90, 89, 91, 92 or mongrel of all 4?
12:02:02 <Wolf01> Cool! GB(2, 4, p1) works even if it should be GB(p1, 4, 2)!
12:03:18 <Wolf01> Patchy patch, need a review
12:05:05 <arahael> Hmm... My trains are frequently being reported as lost...
12:05:16 <LordAro> static inline uint GB(const T x, const uint8 s, const uint8 n) { return (x >> s) & (((T)1U << n) - 1); }
12:05:26 <arahael> But whenever I look at them, they're forced to simply follow their track, and the track takes them to the varoius stations they need to be.
12:05:49 <LordAro> pretty sure swapping x & n doesn't really work
12:06:19 <Wolf01> It doesn't work, but it doesn't throw errors too
12:06:34 <LordAro> well, why would it :p
12:06:52 <LordAro> as long as p1 is a uint8
12:07:31 <LordAro> could probably do something with T &&x to enforce an l-value
12:08:09 <andythenorth_> wolf what repo are you pushing to now? :)
12:10:39 <Wolf01> andythenorth_: noone, I'm working on a local branch of mine
12:10:43 <Pikka> andy, 91 and 92. 89's weird and 90 is just another increment on the 86/87...
12:11:13 <andythenorth_> i might do the 90 because it’s an 86 repaint
12:11:24 <andythenorth_> but eh, slopes :p
12:11:44 <andythenorth_> i looked at the ukrs 2 90
12:12:31 <andythenorth_> also ukrs 2: very livery :o
12:13:29 <andythenorth_> but I could do a fast 92
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14:12:17 <arahael> So, I deleted a town - or at least, destroyed all the roads and buildings. Population went to zero.
14:12:28 <arahael> And then suddenly, it built a road? Do they regrow?
14:13:41 <FLHerne> arahael: It used to be that if you destroyed the central road tile (under the town name) they wouldn't regrow
14:14:54 <arahael> I've bought those tiles out, so will see if that stops it.
14:15:08 <FLHerne> Possibly now it's recreated when destroyed? If you obstruct it, that should definitely work
14:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it always regrew when simply destroyed
14:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to block it to stop it from regrowing
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14:48:30 <andythenorth> Pikka: class 60 slab side very boring
14:49:14 <andythenorth> hmm no 60 in UKRS2
14:49:43 <andythenorth> 92 is slabs though
14:50:08 <andythenorth> have to fake some stuff
14:50:18 <Pikka> I ended up putting a logo on the 86 to break up the side a bit
14:51:46 <andythenorth> you did some fancy liveries on some things too
14:52:02 <andythenorth> some of the sprinters and stuff are diagonal and swooshy
14:52:42 <Pikka> do you have the original sprite sheets, or are you looking at a decompile?
14:53:32 <Pikka> I forgot that was a thing
14:54:21 <Pikka> I packed up the sprite sheets to send to Leanden recently, if they're any use to you I can send them over
14:54:54 <andythenorth> nah I have a decompile, it's enough :)
14:55:33 <andythenorth> trying to figure out if I can get multiple RL 60 liveries with just 2CC :P
14:56:20 <andythenorth> nvm DB Schenker is ugly anyway at 1x zoom
14:56:47 <andythenorth> it has a grey stripe
14:57:39 <andythenorth> it's ugly in ottd scale
15:00:31 <Wolf01> andythenorth: think of a way to revert an upgrade to town roads
15:06:01 <Pikka> both look good to me :)
15:06:26 <andythenorth> me too, think the EWS sprite is better
15:06:36 <andythenorth> can't make so many realistic liveries with it tho
15:08:26 <andythenorth> dunno if that was ever a goal
15:11:31 <Wolf01> andythenorth: downgrade to a road compatible type? (remove check for electric type but must not be HAUL?)
15:12:03 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I don't know how reliably we can calculate compatibility
15:12:08 <andythenorth> it kind of boggles my brain tbh
15:12:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause is good for this sort of thing
15:12:37 <andythenorth> if it's *my* road I should be able to convert anything as I own it
15:12:57 <andythenorth> which players are saying isn't working for them afaict
15:13:05 <andythenorth> town roads, dunno
15:13:16 <Wolf01> There's a thing called powered (compatible) roadtypes, every road but HAUL has ROAD in it, so just check for ROAD
15:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i still think you should just check compatibility to ROAD and be done with it
15:17:14 <andythenorth> are there any reasons not to?
15:17:26 <andythenorth> what if ROAD is not provided in the game?
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15:23:57 <Wolf01> That's like saying RAIL, ELRL, MONO, MGLV aren't provided in the game and only provide Hyperloop which isn't compatible with anything
15:25:51 <andythenorth> ok so we can ignore it as a stupid concern?
15:26:01 <andythenorth> "spec says provide ROAD"?
15:27:26 <Wolf01> The only thing which could definitely solve the problem is to add the magic 5th bit Eddi proposed which tells the game that Company 1 converted the road but the road still belong to town... but then Company 2 wouldn't be able to convert it as it was already converted by another company and it's like it's built by the other company.. so why the 5th bit? just allow purchase town roads by conversion
15:28:20 <Wolf01> I'll convert town road, it's mine now, and I can also put one way signs too!
15:29:02 <andythenorth> who can build road stops?
15:29:32 <Wolf01> You can build roadstops on other company roads
15:34:49 <Pikka> remove all ownership of roads, anyone can modify anything. problem solved. :)
15:35:52 <andythenorth> the whole concept is ridiculous tbh
15:35:57 <andythenorth> it's almost impossible to explain
15:38:03 <Wolf01> That could be an interesting suggestion
15:38:34 <Wolf01> Only keep the station ownership and let roads public
15:38:50 <Wolf01> 8 bits freed on map array
15:40:42 <andythenorth> are water tiles owned?
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15:41:15 <Wolf01> Only if you build them
15:41:32 <Wolf01> Like canals, aqueducts, locks
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15:59:52 <andythenorth> 'ish' is much better for trains than 'is'
16:01:39 <_dp_> TrueBrain, yw, thx for merging :)
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16:19:48 <Wolf01> And again the proof people can't read
16:23:11 <andythenorth> Wolf01: acs121 makes me want to quit TBH
16:23:19 <andythenorth> driven out by a 12 year old
16:23:30 <Wolf01> It makes me doing the opposite of what he says
16:23:48 <andythenorth> I am thinking more restrictions
16:24:03 <andythenorth> endlewss childish behaviour => I want to act like a baby
16:24:08 <Wolf01> But yes, I feel a bit restricted about not being able to convert ELRD to ROAD
16:24:40 <Wolf01> If you make a new road you can convert it back and forth
16:25:09 <TrueBrain> Alberth: your reply on tt-forums made me giggle out loud :D
16:25:13 <TrueBrain> I am going to remember that example :D
16:25:52 <andythenorth> is he/she actually just reporting a bug?
16:26:00 <andythenorth> I don't have an NRT build right
16:26:15 <andythenorth> I could fix that but...eh :P
16:26:26 <Wolf01> No, there is no bug, it's working as we intended
16:26:38 <Wolf01> But we were too much restrictive
16:26:51 <andythenorth> what is this 'convert own roads' thing though
16:28:11 <Wolf01> So maybe we could get back on that and allow converting ROAD<->ELRD in towns, with some interpretations of "maybe", "converting", "get back", and "we"
16:29:06 <andythenorth> time pass quick drawing pixels :P
16:29:21 <andythenorth> I thought it was 14.00 :P
16:31:53 <andythenorth> some of my sprites are very chibi / lego-ised
16:41:08 <frosch123> what? markdown uses trailing whitespace for formatting? :o
16:41:50 <Wolf01> Yes, indentation mean different things
16:42:36 <andythenorth> md and rst are bonkers
16:43:03 <peter1138> Whatever happened to the lego base sets? heh
16:43:06 <andythenorth> html is too hard for people so we have to have weird 'simpler' markup languages
16:43:57 <Wolf01> I even tried it to be sure
16:46:19 <andythenorth> I just explained to child #1 how to turn off wagon speed limits
16:46:29 <andythenorth> apparently that's "epic"
16:46:55 <Wolf01> Did you show him the fantastic world of grf parameters?
16:47:09 <Wolf01> Also peter1138 gave up and started playing simutrans
16:48:46 <andythenorth> because of wagon speed limits? :o
16:49:08 <peter1138> Why... why are there people walking on the roads?
16:53:44 <peter1138> It was moving sideways, but still.
16:56:07 <andythenorth> inspired for new bugs to add? o_O
17:19:46 <andythenorth> don't like diagonal liveries
17:20:14 <andythenorth> should have just done a shed :P
17:20:23 <TrueBrain> and my Windows pain continues ... not all versions of Windows Server 2016 support Containers ... wwwwwwwwaaattthhhhh???!!!
17:21:13 <Pikka> it's an ugly loco in general... maybe it will grow on me
17:21:31 <Pikka> I've got it on my tracking table, so we'll see
17:22:01 <andythenorth> I want something chunky
17:22:09 <andythenorth> the rest of 2020 is all vectrons and traxx and things
17:22:15 <andythenorth> stupid bits of cheese
17:22:33 <glx> TrueBrain: usually the most expensive one is ok
17:24:51 <peter1138> Hmm, I suppose I should be a Pikka-Patreon :p
17:25:07 <peter1138> And... my primary monitor is playing up.
17:25:12 <peter1138> Ah, now it appears.
17:35:22 <peter1138> Play at 1x, they all look good.
17:47:02 <Alberth> "I already have a patch for that"
17:47:04 <andythenorth> there's a frog in it too
17:47:24 <andythenorth> oh no frog in peter and the wold
17:47:52 <Wolf01> Alberth: with the difference the patch is published and "works"
17:48:16 <andythenorth> I remembered some american engine sprites with same style
17:48:21 <andythenorth> even same RL manufacturer :P
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17:48:53 <Wolf01> andythenorth: when could I play with it? I see hype trains everywhere
17:49:30 <andythenorth> you can play with 54 trains complete of 183 (RAIL)
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17:52:06 <andythenorth> working on it :P
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18:02:56 <Pikka> I guess that's a sign...
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18:22:49 <Wolf01> So, the real questio is: who stopped to exist? We or you?
18:25:18 <peter1138> Oh, I lost the link for Wolf01's project file that makes things better
18:27:41 <peter1138> What did it need to be called and where does it go?
18:28:32 <Wolf01> Like the project file but with .user added as second extension, same folder of the project
18:35:35 <peter1138> Yay, works, thanks.
19:00:57 <Wolf01> andythenorth: wallyweb suggested one thing I really like: make downgrade cost rating, downgrade is a removal, right?
19:01:20 <Wolf01> You can downgrade as long as the town is happy
19:03:23 <Wolf01> Ha, I just purchased 6 baseplates 48x48 at 9€/piece
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19:09:23 <Wolf01> It's half of the price!
19:10:10 <Wolf01> Tomorrow you'll find them on bricklink at 30€/piece
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19:16:24 <Wolf01> Anyway, I should finish that RoadTypeIdentifier patch
19:23:22 <TrueBrain> wauw .... I have a container running as a linux container does on Windows ...... *shocked*
19:23:28 <TrueBrain> now I have to download 10 GB of image ...
19:23:37 <TrueBrain> in fact, the docker image is bigger than my installation .... :o
19:24:28 <TrueBrain> so much Docker .. and nobody prepared me for the horror called Windows Docker :P
19:25:34 <Wolf01> peter1138: should I also prepare all the map array accessors for rtid or keep using the roadtype for now?
19:26:56 <andythenorth> meh class 60 sprite sucks
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19:52:17 <peter1138> map array accessors presumably change map structure so
19:53:11 <ZehMatt> is c++14 ok in OpenTTD?
19:53:28 <Wolf01> I need to find out why MergeRoadType now makes it build tram instead of road and vice versa
19:54:17 <LordAro> (will be once new compile farm is complete)
19:55:21 <ZehMatt> unique_ptr is a blessing
19:55:31 <Wolf01> Ok, is the UnpackIfValid
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19:56:41 <Wolf01> this->basetype = (RoadType)GB(data, 0, 1); mmmh
19:56:58 <LordAro> ZehMatt: well you could use auto_ptr!
19:57:47 <ZehMatt> lots of refactor potential
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20:28:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I appreciated the link to a very old issue, but what does it contribute? :)
20:30:04 <LordAro> only that it was duplicated
20:30:07 <LordAro> and closed by andythenorth
20:30:22 <TrueBrain> so you basically just added noise to an issue? :D
20:30:43 <TrueBrain> I rather have you fix the issue :P
20:31:44 <LordAro> saves having that small amount of discussion again, at least
20:32:12 <TrueBrain> well, I am more scared of the inverse .. people starting the discussion again :P
20:32:31 <LordAro> well no one did determine which was the correct solution
20:32:38 <TrueBrain> I did in the new ticket :)
20:33:21 <TrueBrain> just be careful we don't dwell in the past too much; we tend to get stuck :D
20:39:32 <Wolf01> Why the fuck the UI passes a RoadTypes in p1/2 when it's building a single RoadType?
20:48:01 <peter1138> Not need on the word "everyone"
20:54:17 <TrueBrain> I stole some things from you :P
20:55:15 <Wolf01> Mmmh, this patch might be difficult without changing even the command calls on the UI
20:56:42 <Wolf01> And changing it on the UI means to change half of the UI code
21:02:18 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i should have legally protected the file name and document structure :)
21:02:34 <TrueBrain> I liked what I saw, so meh :)
21:03:20 <TrueBrain> there are many more spelling errors, I promise you :)
21:04:11 <frosch123> TrueBrain: no passworded companies in LAN games?
21:04:55 <Wolf01> You can always punch your friends in the nose if they join your company and griefs :P
21:05:08 <frosch123> do you have no siblings?
21:05:27 <Wolf01> Ahahaah, only a sister, and doesn't play OTTD
21:05:39 <frosch123> you mean she doesn't tell you :p
21:07:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair point; in that case I am going to suggest removing the password for a pin
21:07:22 <TrueBrain> so something like in the Company window you say: Put a PIN on it, and it tells you the PIN
21:07:28 <TrueBrain> this you can give to "friends"
21:07:41 <TrueBrain> but I would really really like to remove any hinting towards "passwords" from the game :)
21:08:47 <LordAro> how much would break if NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH were bumped up to 31 (chars)?
21:08:55 <LordAro> given it seems to be causing some warnings right now
21:09:06 <TrueBrain> means you need to bump the protocl version I think
21:09:12 <TrueBrain> hasnt been done in years I guess? :P
21:10:49 <LordAro> not since 2013, assuming that's what NETWORK_MASTER_SERVER_VERSION is
21:11:01 <TrueBrain> that is the protocol of the MS
21:11:07 <TrueBrain> you also have the protocol of client <-> server
21:11:14 <TrueBrain> I believe they also handshake the version?
21:11:44 <frosch123> LordAro: if you break that, please also break the gamelog :) it has a similar issue
21:12:14 <LordAro> frosch123: yeah, uses same constant
21:12:18 <LordAro> that's how i found it :)
21:12:49 <TrueBrain> LordAro: possibly better to help me replace MS :P
21:17:00 <LordAro> ah, looks like NETWORK_GAME_INFO_VERSION
21:26:27 <peter1138> Strange comment change
21:26:34 <peter1138> "if the current tile is a normal"
21:28:26 <_dp_> some tiles are such weirdos
21:29:57 <frosch123> we should switch the platform, github has no :p emoticon
21:34:59 <Wolf01> peter1138: ahah, I just copied the old code :P
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21:39:00 <Wolf01> Anyway, I used the UnpackIdValid function which is not for extracting from RoadTypes but from a packed RoadTypeIdentifier, I tried to change it a bit without success, not sure if this is the right way and instead I should change all the command calls in the UI to pass the right value
22:04:24 <__ln__> those pedestrians would never fit in those houses or cars
22:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need a station with a split platform...
22:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so 2 short trains can stop at one long platform...
22:05:37 <peter1138> peds shoulkd be like MB's newstations people
22:14:20 <V453000> the top black is too dark imo
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22:19:31 <andythenorth> oh it's V453000 :)
22:19:44 <andythenorth> but it has no interesting shapes
22:20:13 <V453000> It just felt weird to me when I saw the black on the top be darker than the black of the wheel
22:20:41 <andythenorth> yeah I lighten it
22:21:34 <andythenorth> I had a grey bit previously but looked weird
22:22:41 <V453000> that feels better to be tbh
22:42:18 <peter1138> Hmm, wonder how to fix the dodgy mouse cursor in Windows.
22:42:39 <peter1138> Maybe we can switch to a HW cursor.
22:43:39 <peter1138> Window moving is ugly too.
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22:47:08 <OutragedMetro> Can I get some help with the openTTD server? I got 2 instances I would like to run on one machine now I am trying to use the -D -c "config file" thing in shortcut but its not loading the second cfg am I doing something wrong?
22:48:35 <OutragedMetro> "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD2\openttd.exe" -D -c "1.cfg"
22:49:36 <LordAro> and where is starting location?
22:49:44 <OutragedMetro> 1.cfg I have tried putting in the game main folder and documents folder
22:50:17 <LordAro> you'll either want to set the starting location in the shortcut, or use the full path of the config file
22:50:17 <peter1138> I think it would need to be in your current directory, or supply the full path.
22:50:56 <OutragedMetro> -c "C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\OpenTTD\1.cfg
22:51:02 <OutragedMetro> I have tried that as well
22:51:07 <OutragedMetro> -c "C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\OpenTTD\1.cfg"
22:51:22 <LordAro> ...are you running as Administrator?
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22:51:36 <ST2> well, while I tested another server controller software on windows (and was a server machine) - Windows acts always weird on there
22:51:36 <LordAro> (unrelated to OTTD, but don't do that)
22:51:49 <OutragedMetro> I am running it on a dedicated server
22:52:07 <OutragedMetro> its a windows server
22:52:36 <ST2> and I'll always recommend dnt use or not even have a \Documents\OpenTTD\*cfg file
22:53:08 <LordAro> OutragedMetro: even less reason to use *the* Administrator account
22:53:12 <LordAro> it's a huge security risk
22:53:30 <ST2> I second thet (LordAro's)
22:53:50 <LordAro> but regardless, what you've specified on the commandline *should* work
22:53:50 <OutragedMetro> But how might I fix the config issue?
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22:54:04 <LordAro> screenshot of the shortcut properties?
22:54:04 <OutragedMetro> its not working though no matter what I try
22:54:52 <ST2> OutragedMetro: 1st: put that game and proccesses running on other user
22:55:36 <OutragedMetro> it shouldn't prevent the CFG issue though ST2 and uploading screens
22:56:10 <ST2> as told by LordAro, it's by security reasons
22:56:52 <OutragedMetro> I get that but still should not prevent cfg from running
22:57:41 <LordAro> try running that from the cmd, any messages?
22:57:54 <ST2> well, I dnt see a .cfg pointer
22:58:05 <OutragedMetro> running the cfg from command line?
22:58:16 <LordAro> run the whole "Target"
22:58:27 <LordAro> might spit out an error
23:00:06 <ST2> LordAro: in Windows it's easier to create shortcuts - and errors still come out on it
23:00:08 <OutragedMetro> Running from CMD did nothing
23:00:22 <OutragedMetro> still noththing
23:02:55 <OutragedMetro> What I am trying to do is have one instance Temperate and the other sub-arctic
23:03:56 <LordAro> without actually having a windows install in front of me, i can't help any further
23:04:15 <LordAro> (well, technically i do have a windows install in front of me, but i'm using linux right now :) )
23:04:24 <ST2> OutragedMetro: when noe works, make different OpenTTD game forlders, each one with it's own cfg file
23:04:43 <OutragedMetro> I tried that to ST2 but it loaded the my docs
23:05:37 <ST2> those came from the the instalation, and you run the game as Administrator, with GUI
23:08:52 <ST2> OutragedMetro: copy the OpenTTD instalation folder, where is the openttd.exe
23:09:21 <ST2> OutragedMetro: make an empty openttd.cfg file there
23:10:49 <OutragedMetro> so put an empty config in the folders? or in my doccuments?
23:10:56 <ST2> I suggest to make a 1st run, only to openttd.cfg file be filled with default settings
23:11:16 <OutragedMetro> I did that and got one
23:11:17 <ST2> and after, edit openttd.cfg with settings you want
23:11:35 <OutragedMetro> it works to get the 1st instance up but not the second
23:11:45 <ST2> [22:10:48] <OutragedMetro> so put an empty config in the folders? or in my doccuments? << read above
23:12:21 <ST2> and get rid of my doccuments stuff
23:12:34 <OutragedMetro> I got rid of them completely
23:13:04 <ST2> so, make an empty openttd.cfg file where opentd.exe is
23:14:00 <ST2> btw, can you see file extentions?
23:14:16 <ST2> cfg, txt, exe... and so on?
23:15:03 <Thedarkb-X40> I'm fairly sure UFOs are broken.
23:15:06 <OutragedMetro> found my issue its arctic not sub-arctic in the config
23:15:44 <ST2> well, climates are simple as this: from 0 to 3
23:16:12 <ST2> there's no need for that words
23:19:57 <peter1138> Urgh, video issues even worse with SDL on Windows :p
23:20:45 <Thedarkb-X40> OpenTTD runs well on old processors but it needs a fair bit of RAM.
23:22:25 <ST2> peter1138: if server started properly as dedicated, even if on a windows machine, will rul without issues
23:23:20 <peter1138> I don't know what you are talking about.
23:23:51 <ST2> peter1138: we, at BTPro and n-ice have a screenshot thing (can be see on BTPro page) - that it's kinda tricky
23:24:15 <Thedarkb-X40> peter1138, Just talking to myself.
23:24:58 <glx> peter1138: just use GDI, SDL is a wrapper around it anyway
23:25:21 <peter1138> glx, SDL is meant to use directx :S
23:25:50 <glx> dunno it it does it for 2D stuff
23:26:37 <peter1138> glx, anyway, with the windows drivers, I get glitching :(
23:27:26 <ST2> peter1138: glitching where?
23:27:29 <peter1138> Probably since Windows 8, I guess.
23:27:37 <peter1138> Since the display model changed.
23:28:28 <ST2> peter1138: if I may ask, what OS you use?
23:29:04 <ST2> on a couple computers I use
23:29:33 <ST2> and I have no issues or, what you say... glitching's
23:30:19 <ST2> and neither on the W7 computers I have
23:30:25 <peter1138> Basically the screen updates before OpenTTD has finished updating the screen, as it were.
23:30:46 <peter1138> So for instance the mouse cursor partially disappears before it's fully drawn.
23:30:49 <ST2> isn't it a software issue?
23:31:20 <peter1138> There's no vsync in involved, so it's inevitable.
23:32:34 <ST2> peter1138: I'm on a desktop now. I have a laptop, W10 too, when going to pub
23:32:51 <ST2> I use W7 at work, and all is fine
23:33:05 <peter1138> But not really relevant.
23:33:48 <ST2> well peter1138, what's the real problem?
23:33:57 <peter1138> 22:30 < peter1138> Basically the screen updates before OpenTTD has finished updating the screen, as it were.
23:34:00 <peter1138> 22:30 < peter1138> So for instance the mouse cursor partially disappears before it's fully drawn.
23:35:07 <michi_cc> peter1138: Whatever it is, it has to be related to the hardware/software you're running. I don't see this effect, so it can't be a universal W10 problem.
23:35:15 <LordAro> is this with sdl on windows?
23:35:48 <peter1138> Although SDL is worse, but we don't support that out of the box.
23:36:03 <ST2> as michi_cc said: it's a specific issue
23:36:21 <peter1138> michi_cc, i'm sure it's not universal. I don't think running nvidia gpu drivers is particularly uncommon though.
23:37:16 <ST2> peter1138: I have nvidia gpu drivers, that updates each week or so
23:37:27 <LordAro> i'll have to check when i'm next on windows
23:37:28 <ST2> and I dnt have problems with it
23:37:59 <andythenorth> ok we won't fix anything then :P
23:38:23 <ST2> andythenorth: fix FIRS, please ^^
23:38:59 <ST2> players brains got broke xD
23:40:12 <ST2> I kept our servers with FIRS 3.0.5, because other releases broke something - well, you got the complaints, I bet xD
23:40:41 <peter1138> michi_cc, it's nothing changed in OpenTTD either. 0.4.5 has the same issue for me.
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23:41:09 <peter1138> michi_cc, basically we need a modern driver that uses compositing and surfaces ;)
23:46:52 <LordAro> yeah, if only someone had done that
23:47:03 <LordAro> (also, lol "opengl" "modern")
23:47:58 <peter1138> Anyway, I can make the game beautiful again by forcing it to redraw the whole screen every time.
23:48:15 <ST2> has anyone asked peter1138's settings?
23:48:17 <peter1138> At least I have enough CPU for that ;)
23:49:50 <peter1138> Ah shit, I forgot the "make_peter1138s_graphics_shit = true" setting in openttd.cfg
23:50:26 <andythenorth> some platforms the graphics are fucked
23:50:34 <andythenorth> more than they used to be afaict
23:50:39 <andythenorth> I keep seeing it denied
23:50:53 <andythenorth> also 'buy a better computer' isn't helping
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23:56:28 <peter1138> i7-8700K isn't sloggish ;)
23:57:12 <andythenorth> when I buy new computers, ottd tends to get worse
23:58:49 <ST2> andythenorth: may I add, that the use of different FIRS economies with the same newgrf's (basically Iron Horse and RoadHog) can lead to many players go wild
continue to next day ⏵
