IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-04-09
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00:58:48 <LordAro> "FreeBSD's C compile does not support dump machine." However, removing C support is not possible because PSP must be linked with the C compiler."
01:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes you come across sentences that make no sense and you wonder whether you just miss some context
01:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> or if there is something wrong with it on some fundamentally deeper level
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03:38:35 <LANJesus> what is the date epoch for ottd?
04:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's year 0 based
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08:35:08 <peter1138> You know a system is fucked when the API to get version inormation changes...
08:36:35 <andythenorth> it's Apple innit
08:37:22 <__ln__> peter1138: afaik it has changed in the win32 api also.
08:42:05 <peter1138> __ln__, as I said... :)
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09:12:03 <andythenorth> it's very brake vans
09:17:54 <Pikka> my AI immediately fell victim to BAD FEATURES
09:18:29 <Pikka> it thought the Shoebox would be the cheapest loco to run, but it isn't without wires.
09:20:16 <andythenorth> not sure what to do about that :)
09:21:03 <Pikka> not much I guess... it'll cope :P
09:21:25 <andythenorth> and why are newgrf authors able to troll the AI? o_O
09:21:41 <Pikka> oh yes, I meant to mention that
09:21:56 <Pikka> it doesn't do anything for vehicles any more, but for stations it still does
09:22:11 <andythenorth> shame the vehicles don't do anything
09:22:11 <Pikka> so you should add it to CHIPS :P
09:22:26 <Pikka> well, it's up to the AI now to choose the vehicles
09:22:36 <andythenorth> probably for the best :P
09:22:48 <andythenorth> CHIPs is in a funny place
09:22:51 <andythenorth> I can add tiles to it
09:22:59 <andythenorth> but everything else is WTF :)
09:23:15 <andythenorth> yexo wrote it to learn about stations
09:23:21 <andythenorth> so it exercises the full GRM spec
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09:24:30 <andythenorth> can your AI understand wagon speed limits? o_O
09:24:57 <Pikka> but it doesn't care much about them, it's happy to build slow trains
09:25:31 <Pikka> I think I'm done tinkering with it now
09:25:37 <andythenorth> I should give it to child #1 to test
09:25:46 <andythenorth> he has been testing Convoy and so on
09:25:50 <andythenorth> with running commentary
09:26:02 <andythenorth> I should give him twitch
09:26:12 <andythenorth> he could be the next Stampy
09:27:57 <Pikka> run it with the default industries if you want to see trains, FIRS really confuses it :P
09:34:37 <andythenorth> ha I left busy bee in the game
09:34:44 <andythenorth> AI probably can't do goals? o_O
09:36:32 <TrueBrain> LordAro: possibly talk it over if PSP should still be a target that should be supported? :)
09:36:47 <TrueBrain> it was fun to add, but useful? :D
09:40:54 <andythenorth> I think I gave mine away in the end
09:40:58 <andythenorth> it was so nearly awesome
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09:44:22 <andythenorth> well it's quite Civil eh
09:48:10 <andythenorth> seems it's doing goals by accident
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09:53:31 <andythenorth> I wouldn't make those train choices, but it's making money :)
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09:54:33 <Pikka> it has a minimum standard
09:54:38 <Pikka> which is 40mph and 250hp
09:54:49 <Pikka> and then it just picks the loco with the lowest running cost
09:55:06 <Pikka> or which appears to have the lowest running cost ;)
09:55:19 <andythenorth> it's choosing the 'correct' wagons
09:55:35 <andythenorth> I think that's because the grf author made correct choices about default cargos :P
09:56:07 <andythenorth> vehicle default cargo cascades in Horse 2
09:56:12 <andythenorth> depending on what's available
09:59:02 <Pikka> for "piece good" cargos it buys random wagons :)
09:59:58 <Pikka> for liquid and bulk, it buys the highest capacity native wagon, or if no native wagons the highest capacity refittable
10:00:00 <andythenorth> go on...teach it integer train lengths :D
10:01:01 <Pikka> most train grfs don't have multiple wagon lengths so you can make integer train lengths, though :P
10:01:36 <andythenorth> 'prefer integer' :P
10:01:41 <peter1138> I should play a game at some point...
10:02:00 <andythenorth> let the AI do it
10:02:22 <andythenorth> we played an MP game once
10:02:42 <peter1138> I miss when UKRS was current :P
10:03:34 <andythenorth> I am just remaking it
10:03:38 <andythenorth> only with too many wagons
10:04:02 <andythenorth> then I'll remake NARS
10:04:25 <andythenorth> then I have to 2x zoom all things
10:13:31 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'm pretty sure the "freebsd c compiler..." bit isn't relevant these days anyway
10:16:06 <andythenorth> Pikka: so I was going to make Horse-NARS use bigger sprites
10:16:10 <andythenorth> because realisms
10:16:40 <andythenorth> but P1JK scale regrets?
10:17:16 <Pikka> drawing smaller was a silly idea, for sure. drawing bigger you start running into issues with tunnels and bridges and general over-chibiness?
10:17:50 <Pikka> I'd stick to the standard sprite size
10:18:12 <andythenorth> also more copy paste
10:18:23 <andythenorth> drawing 180 wagons...1px taller
10:20:53 <peter1138> Load average: 22.76, 14.21, 7.44
10:21:31 <andythenorth> I need an AI feature
10:21:39 <andythenorth> don't use trains with unfinished sprites
10:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's AI uaage bits, but i don't know if the AIs will actually adhere to them
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14:33:23 <andythenorth> yes there is some work to do
14:33:45 <andythenorth> __ln__: add an issue :)
14:34:54 <__ln__> chicken and egg problem, can't add an issue to flyspray because it's read-only.
14:35:57 * andythenorth can think of no solution
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15:02:27 <Samu> i need a new account to report bugs?
15:05:28 <LordAro> yeah, but you can learn how to do git properly now ;)
15:05:44 <LordAro> incidentally, has there been an announcement anywhere?
15:24:29 <andythenorth> and some contributors are quitting also
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15:33:25 <LordAro> just looked at the forum a bit
15:33:36 <LordAro> yeah, *really* needs some sort of announcement, with explanations and such like
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17:11:05 <TrueBrain> w00p! I am baccckkkkk
17:11:21 <TrueBrain> upgraded my IRC client .. not sure I like it ... it seems to have lost a few options :P
17:11:49 <TrueBrain> today I was reminded why forums in general are toxic; I understand the point they wanted to make, but this is not the way to do it :D (so much passive aggrasive statements in a single post ...)
17:11:57 <Alberth> advances in tech usually drops the more techy features :p
17:13:39 <TrueBrain> yippie, I can visit github.com again from this machine :D (certificate issues)
17:16:12 <Alberth> I assume it means something else than "with a browser" :)
17:16:38 <TrueBrain> no, my browser was of such age, it didnt support the TLS used for github.com
17:17:01 <TrueBrain> (it was running wheezy ....)
17:18:58 <TrueBrain> now to upgrade my switch
17:20:40 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I didn't say too much in my replies
17:20:52 <andythenorth> I feel the pain of those who were told to do everything the wrong way with hg queues
17:21:03 <andythenorth> I tried that and failed, it's insane hard
17:21:34 <TrueBrain> what amazes me about those post ... who "forced" them in hg queues .. and why do they blame OpenTTD in general for that
17:21:41 <andythenorth> nah it's just lacking perspective
17:21:49 <andythenorth> I nearly quit after NML was introduced
17:22:15 <andythenorth> I wrote all of FIRS in NFO (with help), then it was ported to NML without a lot of consultation with me
17:22:23 <andythenorth> and I couldn't get the tools working, so I nearly quit
17:23:17 <Alberth> /me is happy you're still here
17:23:30 <TrueBrain> I second that Alberth :)
17:23:44 <andythenorth> stats show this is mostly a channel of me talking to me
17:23:47 <andythenorth> so what is 'here' :P
17:23:58 <TrueBrain> what surprised me most .. since when is IRC not the primary way of communication? When did that change?
17:24:19 <andythenorth> I used to think forums were main way until I discovered irc
17:24:32 <andythenorth> I was quite hostile to irc, I thought it was msn web-chat bollocks
17:24:40 <andythenorth> people doing sexy chat and role play stuff
17:24:41 <TrueBrain> I don't remember anything else .. tt-forums was just a side-branch of communication to me :)
17:24:56 <andythenorth> we got it at work, so I joined #openttd channel too
17:25:16 <andythenorth> TB is a bot right?
17:25:45 <Alberth> it has a domain now, it must get money from somewhere
17:26:01 <TrueBrain> either way, I do thing a bit more communication can be good, but that is up to frosch123
17:26:14 <TrueBrain> I think he really wants to make a drastical change
17:26:18 <TrueBrain> which I can only applaud
17:26:50 <Alberth> it's drastic indeed, never seen it done in other projects
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17:27:36 <TrueBrain> Python took months of planning
17:28:06 <TrueBrain> Python migrated from their own hosted stuff to GitHub a bit ago
17:28:18 <TrueBrain> GCC simply said: make a fork that is more popular, and we call that GCC
17:28:32 <Alberth> oh, I mean allowing multiple openttds, each different
17:28:48 <TrueBrain> we just did what Python and GCC did at once :P
17:29:46 <TrueBrain> but yeah .. the infrastructure is now there for people to make popular forks
17:30:05 <TrueBrain> at least people can no longer hide behind: DEVS ARE MEAN AND DONT ACCEPT MY PATCH
17:30:28 <TrueBrain> means I can finally make my head-to-head to way I want it >:@ (goes all evil)
17:30:51 <TrueBrain> I had some technical drawings for an MMO OpenTTD somewhere ..
17:30:57 <Alberth> like we would stop you :p
17:31:20 <TrueBrain> of all the things, that never happened :D
17:31:44 <TrueBrain> I am a bit sad though about the OpenTTD community .. a lot of talk, very little doing
17:33:34 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I kinda want to rename svn.openttd.org to svn-archive.openttd.org
17:34:04 <TrueBrain> too invisible that it is read-only ..
17:34:21 <TrueBrain> owh, and Alberth, you happen to know if there is eintsgit (I have an eintssvn)
17:35:48 <Alberth> that's code written by frosch, I have never even seen those scripts
17:35:56 <TrueBrain> so I will bug him :D
17:36:46 <Alberth> but likely, it doesn't exist, as neither openttd nor devzone used git
17:37:00 <Alberth> unless he wrote it recently
17:37:00 <TrueBrain> I thought someone said 2 projects used git?
17:37:16 <TrueBrain> well, something for frosch123 to figure out :)
17:37:31 <TrueBrain> otherwise I can use the svn of GitHub :D
17:37:46 <Alberth> you can use git at devzone, don't know if anyone does, but 2 sounds feasible
17:38:12 <TrueBrain> documentation suggests commit also work over svn to GitHub
17:38:14 <Alberth> it likely doesn't actually do much in terms of the VCS
17:38:17 <TrueBrain> might be the easy solution :D
17:38:55 <Alberth> history is somewhat screwed there, in terms of svn
17:39:35 <Alberth> I read once what it does, and it didn't sound very useful from svn perspective :)
17:39:56 <TrueBrain> but if I can pick up new commits and send an update, it should be enough, not ?D:
17:40:39 <Alberth> yeah, it might be sufficient, you never want to look through history
17:41:10 <TrueBrain> so those who really want to keep using Subversion .. can :P
17:41:16 <TrueBrain> and with that, anyone who wants to use Mercurial, can :P
17:41:47 <Alberth> nah, I tried mercurial as frontend to git, it is very break-ish
17:41:56 <TrueBrain> no, as frontend to svn! :D
17:42:01 <TrueBrain> it still sucks balls
17:42:24 <TrueBrain> (is Mercurial still being developed?)
17:42:43 <Alberth> no idea, but likely it is
17:42:49 <TrueBrain> its funny to me .. I setup a mirror for hg and git back in those days, as I really couldnt tell who would win ... git had Linux .. hg had Windows ..
17:43:03 <TrueBrain> now years later there is a clear winner ..
17:43:15 <TrueBrain> BitBucket still supports both
17:43:16 <Alberth> guthub is a big factor
17:43:22 <TrueBrain> GitHub was a HUGE push
17:43:30 <TrueBrain> git taking Windows users seriously too
17:43:35 <Alberth> and git has a simple one way to use it
17:43:44 <TrueBrain> unless you hit reflog :D
17:43:54 <Alberth> while hg allows more freedom
17:44:07 <TrueBrain> hg queues are awesome
17:44:09 <Alberth> but freedom is not what most users want
17:44:13 <TrueBrain> rebasing is still a bit more iffy
17:44:41 <Alberth> much more strict, and complicated than queues
17:44:52 <Alberth> git threw out the option to change the diff
17:44:55 <TrueBrain> in a queue you can just manually edit shit :D
17:45:11 <TrueBrain> now I have to rebase against something, with -i, and change a patch
17:45:16 <TrueBrain> I so often fuck this up :D
17:45:28 <TrueBrain> what I do wrong most of the time, is that I 'git rebase -i' to a patch
17:45:45 <Alberth> git is quite complicated beyond simple "add more commits"
17:45:46 <TrueBrain> and than .... 'git commit --amend'
17:45:58 <TrueBrain> I still HATE that it allows me to amend while in a rebase
17:46:11 <TrueBrain> so often I squashed 2 commits together with this ...
17:46:21 <TrueBrain> but yeah .. for just: fix stuff, add it, commit it
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17:46:37 <TrueBrain> I really like how people keep looking for better workflows on GitHub etc
17:46:40 <Alberth> but hardly you need git for that
17:46:54 <Alberth> anything vcs does that
17:46:58 <TrueBrain> what I like most, is that andythenorth is jealous he didnt say anything for so long, and his streak is coming to an end :P
17:47:12 <TrueBrain> git is just available, more than anything :)
17:47:41 <TrueBrain> my <tab> key finally works through this vnc server :D No longe typing out names :D \o/
17:47:52 <Alberth> now it needs to be less technically correct, and more user-friendly
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17:48:01 <TrueBrain> talking about frosch123
17:48:46 <TrueBrain> frosch123: question for you .. I can link eints to the svn of GitHub .. that .. seems to work. Low effort, but risky. Or do you have a git variant for eintssvn for me? :)
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17:55:52 <frosch123> i have a git variant for devzone
17:55:59 <frosch123> anyway, it should only need replacing a few lines
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18:02:00 <TrueBrain> if you could cook that up for me somewhere this week orso, that would be perfect :D
18:04:20 <frosch123> Alberth: and yes, devzone has full support for git
18:04:26 <frosch123> both in eints and in compile farm
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18:07:22 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: yeah, your count of uninterrupted consecutive lines is pretty impressive :)
18:07:22 <andythenorth> I kind of stop at 5 or 7
18:07:22 <andythenorth> when it's obvious it's me talking to me
18:07:34 <TrueBrain> I dont have that filter
18:07:47 <andythenorth> TrueBrain yeah, your count of uninterrupted consecutive lines is pretty impressive :)
18:07:47 <andythenorth> I kind of stop at 5 or 7
18:07:49 <TrueBrain> I am oblivious to the fact nobody wants to read me talk :D
18:08:12 <andythenorth> oh my client is repeating
18:08:59 <peter1138> My spacebar is sticking :(
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18:11:53 <andythenorth> don't read first two pages, it's just forum BS
18:11:59 <andythenorth> but the gold is all in pages 3 and 4
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18:17:01 <TrueBrain> funny how the same ideas have been around for months; any patchpack could have done it
18:17:04 <TrueBrain> yet nobody moves :)
18:17:38 <TrueBrain> sadly, this is a common thread not only in OpenTTD .. lot of talk, little action :)
18:17:49 <TrueBrain> that is why I like to just do shit :D
18:20:48 <andythenorth> also now it's getting done too
18:20:57 <andythenorth> winner winner, chicken dinner
18:28:49 <frosch123> hmm, i can't tell whether github does not display tabs properly or whether half of michi's patches are indented differently
18:29:52 <peter1138> Hmm, it looked okay to me.
18:32:24 <peter1138> So after that power blip in the datacentre, my irssi tabs are all out of whack :p
18:32:38 <peter1138> At least this one is in the right place.
18:34:24 <frosch123> i looked at the raw diff
18:34:27 <frosch123> 3 lines used spaces
18:36:07 <LordAro> the thing is, people *were* told to use hg queues as a way of splitting up large patches into smaller changes - for ease of reviewing was the justification. i doubt they were mentioned without git, but queues were certsinly marketed as the simpler option (not taking sides here!)
18:37:08 <andythenorth> and queues sucked :D
18:37:19 <peter1138> frosch123, yeah, the OS X ones are not right.
18:37:24 <frosch123> i still have some queues, only moved some to git
18:37:29 <andythenorth> it was plain to me that I wasn't going to try NRT with hg queues
18:37:48 <LordAro> fwiw, i think the hard "split into logical changes" thing should be dropped, it's "too hard" for most people to do sanely (although reordering and commit messages is fine and expected still, imo)
18:37:51 <Alberth> git and rebasing came later than queues
18:38:41 <peter1138> I tend to start doing logical changes, and then find I need to fix an unrelated bug to continue on some more changes.
18:39:09 <andythenorth> we have rules at work (I am responsible for some of them)
18:39:23 <andythenorth> branch per isolated feature
18:39:29 <peter1138> Often the way a bug is fixed differs between your branch and master.
18:39:37 <andythenorth> so I then have 10 branches, and all of them are merged into each other
18:39:46 <andythenorth> but the bureacracy is correct
18:39:56 <andythenorth> even if the engineering is bollocks :P
18:40:10 <peter1138> Once merged you don't need them any more.
18:40:37 <andythenorth> nah I mean concurrently
18:40:52 <andythenorth> commit, switch, merge, switch, merge, switch, merge
18:41:05 <andythenorth> because 1 branch per ticket
18:41:18 <andythenorth> so I do a task like 'upgrade the entire UI library'
18:41:26 <andythenorth> with 1 ticket page of an app
18:41:30 <Alberth> I would really like a stack of patches, like queues, in git
18:41:47 <andythenorth> cascading branches
18:42:00 <LordAro> incidentally, github solves nothing about "devs are mean and don't accept my patch" - devs still need to review and merge the PRs
18:42:02 <frosch123> Alberth: stash doesn't do it?
18:42:33 <Alberth> stash is not all available together afaik
18:42:44 <andythenorth> LordAro: correct
18:42:46 <LordAro> stash + branches covers everything mq did, imo
18:43:12 <andythenorth> LordAro: 'devs are mean' is probably perennial, there are those who do, and those who complain, and those who can do politics and those who can't
18:43:29 <andythenorth> but at least our toolchain won't be hostile any more :)
18:43:45 <andythenorth> and I won't be scared our infra might die leaving us shafted
18:43:52 <LordAro> or limited build system
18:44:04 <andythenorth> I am still scared of devzone and bundles dying
18:44:04 <LordAro> (when does first c++11 feature happen? ^^)
18:45:21 <LordAro> no risk of that any time soon, imo
18:45:36 <LordAro> maybe someone should set up a GH devzone organisation ;)
18:46:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am unsure, does bundles actually have git support?
18:48:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: syke-rail is an example
18:48:22 <frosch123> there was a second one, but that was the first one
18:49:25 <peter1138> Well, a branch is basically a stack of patches.
18:50:32 <andythenorth> I think I would like to stop using hg if possible
18:50:49 <andythenorth> I don't hate hg, but I use two VCS daily, and I'd rather use one
18:50:56 <Alberth> until you decide to change stuff in the middle, where you then get caught in a rebase, and the needs to apply everything
18:51:27 <frosch123> wait a little, i currently can't tell whether devzone would be replaced by farm and eints working directly on github
18:52:15 <Alberth> which is a mess if the top-patches become obsolete to the point of not applying sanely, but you want to keep them for reference
18:52:30 <LordAro> andythenorth: i use svn at work, i'm constantly trying to do "git di" or "git st -q"
18:53:08 <frosch123> LordAro: same for me, but i have the opposite result
18:53:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: a few days ago, before you joined channel TB persuaded me I should learn docker
18:53:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: i also did, since then i am frustrated that it is not used at work :p
18:54:12 <andythenorth> I need to learn it for work
18:54:20 <andythenorth> and if it's good we switch to it
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18:55:49 <frosch123> so, how do i configure git to default-pull from OpenTTD/OpenTTD, but default push to frosch123/OpenTTD?
18:56:41 <andythenorth> I also want to see if pipenv is useful, and maybe package nml with it
18:56:44 <frosch123> hmm, or do i configure github to default pull from ottd to me?
18:57:18 <andythenorth> alias to update the remote? :P
18:58:20 <LordAro> frosch123: git remote --help
18:58:32 <LordAro> i have an orgin and a fork remotr, usually
18:58:47 <LordAro> pretty sure you can remove push for a particular remotr
18:59:01 <andythenorth> I have NRT set up with ottd as a remote
18:59:08 <andythenorth> there might be better ways
19:00:34 <frosch123> yes, i have multiple remotes
19:00:39 <andythenorth> or just fix them, and cut out project management :P
19:00:45 <frosch123> i am just too lazy to always type which
19:03:23 <LordAro> and #6697 needs closing as workingasintended
19:04:52 <andythenorth> do I have rights yet?
19:05:03 <andythenorth> says TrueBrain is the only person on the project afaict
19:05:16 <frosch123> yes, tb is the only public member
19:05:17 <LordAro> only public person on the project
19:05:25 <frosch123> no idea whether he just forgot :)
19:05:34 <LordAro> no real reason why anyone should hide it
19:05:57 <frosch123> LordAro: i have followers on github, they scare me :)
19:06:07 <frosch123> well, not as scary as my twitter followers
19:06:23 <andythenorth> maybe I *didn't get it from git.openttd
19:07:14 <andythenorth> can't tell, github confuses me :)
19:08:41 <Wolf01> "I'm thanking each day i'm playing with ratt you, Andythenorth, Eddi and Alberth for continuing this fantastic work. Really." <- I'm tempted to reply "and frosch? He did most of it"... people always forget about frogs :(
19:09:28 <frosch123> it's fine, at least they don't annoy then :)
19:09:59 <andythenorth> silent contributor
19:10:10 <andythenorth> I am just the front man
19:11:06 <Wolf01> You make the grfs, without you (and supermop) NRT wouldn't be here
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19:18:26 <Wolf01> BTW, andythenorth, your opinion for bus-only roads?
19:22:18 <supermop_work> seems easy to do in nrt already, no?
19:23:19 <Wolf01> Maybe some little changes to pathfinding
19:23:37 <Wolf01> Shit s.Berliner III trolled me again
19:24:05 <supermop_work> just need the rv set to co-conspire with the road set
19:24:19 <Wolf01> I hate when fictional engines come up when you are making a seriouss research
19:36:01 <peter1138> LordAro, well... should it be reoffered? I don't think so.
19:38:15 <andythenorth> it needs rebased, and the merge conflicts fixed
19:38:18 <andythenorth> it's probably done
19:39:25 <andythenorth> probably lacks AI and GS support, but eh
19:40:48 <Wolf01> Not so lacking... samu and others tried it and seem to work, almost
19:41:27 <andythenorth> merge it to master, let it run for next 11 months
19:41:42 <andythenorth> it's the branch name
19:42:17 <Wolf01> RATT is the public name, NRT is the project name :P
19:42:21 <peter1138> So I'm in branch "road-and-tram-types" and I see sync with RATT. Syncing with itself?
19:43:39 <andythenorth> that's just an odd commit message I think
19:44:07 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am more surprised the rest of you are hiding
19:44:14 <TrueBrain> why not make it public you are part of OpenTTD? :)
19:44:31 <peter1138> It defaults to private, and nobody else bothered to change it?
19:48:20 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you indeed didnt fork it via GitHub :D Silly goose
19:48:57 <andythenorth> ancient history now :P
19:49:11 <andythenorth> apply it as one big diff? :P
19:49:19 <andythenorth> commit: one big patch
19:49:35 <TrueBrain> let me check what mess you made :)
19:49:44 <TrueBrain> I could figure out Wolf01's mess :P
19:50:23 <TrueBrain> wow, lot of commits
19:50:31 <peter1138> Problem is the merges when changes get lost in them.
19:52:25 <peter1138> Last merged with r27974 - c46e470
19:52:53 <TrueBrain> and doesnt apply clean on the head of your own master branch
19:54:31 <andythenorth> it has 2 merge conflicts
19:54:44 <andythenorth> one needs openttd grf sprites manually merged
19:54:52 <andythenorth> the other is savegame stuff I don't understand :P
19:55:23 <peter1138> 11518 lines, 557608 characters for the full diff, heh
19:55:27 <TrueBrain> I guess it depends a bit how you want to go forward with this .. indeed as you say commit it as a single patch
19:55:31 <TrueBrain> or do you want to keep this history
19:55:52 <TrueBrain> main issue seems to be that it has merges from several branches
19:57:33 <TrueBrain> 241 non-merge commits
19:57:48 <TrueBrain> owh, sometimes called sync
19:57:52 <TrueBrain> so that 229 patches is accurate
19:58:12 <LANJesus> got around to rebasing
19:58:20 <frosch123> i believe there are several experimental things which got reverted again
19:58:40 <peter1138> I don't think keeping the full history is useful
19:58:40 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that makes it even harder :D
19:58:59 <TrueBrain> I now remember why I rarely merge :D
19:59:13 <frosch123> problem was likely that only master is built on the farm :p
19:59:21 <frosch123> so everything must be in master
19:59:33 <frosch123> well, not "master", but that one branch
19:59:44 <peter1138> rebase apparently makes it harder to share
20:00:06 <andythenorth> we might also have different setups
20:00:10 <peter1138> which is sort of true if it's just random people working it
20:00:24 <TrueBrain> there is a point where there are 23 branches next to eachother
20:00:28 <TrueBrain> which are merged over 12 commits
20:00:59 <TrueBrain> running 'tig' on that branch is briljant
20:01:37 <andythenorth> does github have a tree view like bitbucket?
20:01:47 <TrueBrain> no clue; locally I use 'tig' for it
20:02:12 <TrueBrain> in the end the branches are merged properly
20:02:18 <TrueBrain> but in between there are times that it is a bit iffy :D
20:02:38 <TrueBrain> so rebasing will be very difficult
20:02:56 <TrueBrain> and manually fixing 229 patches is a bit much
20:02:59 <andythenorth> we had multiple branches in two forks
20:03:09 <andythenorth> I think this is how most devlolopers are going to do it :P
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20:03:44 <peter1138> Normally you don't change the base that everybody is working off
20:03:49 <TrueBrain> I honestly dont have a good suggestion for this
20:04:08 <peter1138> Now you know what you're doing...
20:04:17 <TrueBrain> not relevant peter1138. If they want to continue on the new git, that is easy as pie
20:04:18 <peter1138> Split it up in to logical ... wait, that sounds familiar.
20:04:23 <TrueBrain> just takes some CPU time for git to figure it out
20:04:31 <TrueBrain> it is just a bloody mess
20:04:38 <TrueBrain> no matter how you slice it
20:05:05 <peter1138> master will get there eventually ;D
20:05:32 <peter1138> Let's go back to svn hah
20:07:32 <andythenorth> history is over-rated, everything has a hash
20:07:36 <andythenorth> don't worry about it :P
20:07:52 <TrueBrain> doesnt happen often that I am unsure how to resolve a git mess properly :D
20:08:03 <andythenorth> hmm tig is colourful
20:08:19 <andythenorth> what are the 'sync' commits? :)
20:08:35 <peter1138> That's what I asked.
20:08:40 <TrueBrain> they have 2 parents; so merges
20:08:42 <andythenorth> and why are there so many merge commits? o_O
20:08:44 <peter1138> so I did a big diff
20:08:51 <peter1138> checked out the same version, applied
20:08:52 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 100 out of the 329 :)
20:09:06 <peter1138> only the pngs conflict, which is fair enough
20:09:16 <andythenorth> yair, someone added airport sprites :)
20:09:22 <andythenorth> just need to move the light-rail icon
20:09:46 <TrueBrain> without some manual effort I am unsure you can make a clean PR out of this :(
20:10:07 <andythenorth> well gotta break some eggs to learn :)
20:10:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's not airport sprites, it's gui sprtes with firecycle
20:10:22 <TrueBrain> don't have 5 merge commits after each ohter? :D
20:10:44 <TrueBrain> with the same right parent .. also interesting
20:10:57 <andythenorth> isn't that just Wolf's editor doing something?
20:11:18 <TrueBrain> especially because they are clean merges
20:11:27 <TrueBrain> it merges a merge :D
20:11:48 <TrueBrain> the moment you find out that the left and right parent of the merge are both merges :D
20:12:03 <TrueBrain> haha, and the next level also has merges :D
20:12:18 <andythenorth> 2017-08-04 21:46 is interesting
20:12:19 <frosch123> that's why noone told andy that devzone also supports git :p
20:12:19 <TrueBrain> and one more level :D
20:12:37 <TrueBrain> awh, there it stops
20:12:39 <andythenorth> hth did I merge 7 branches like that?
20:12:49 <TrueBrain> no, there is another name there
20:13:03 <andythenorth> 9 times I merged trunk in?
20:13:17 <TrueBrain> owh, searching for times is annoying :P
20:13:34 <andythenorth> my tig has run out of unique colours
20:13:59 <TrueBrain> and no, you merged something that on the left side had a merge
20:14:44 <TrueBrain> but while you were merging, others merged too :D
20:14:57 <andythenorth> distributed fun :P
20:15:00 <TrueBrain> seems like for ~4 months you only merged into that branch
20:15:11 <andythenorth> just keeping up with trunk
20:15:22 <TrueBrain> which makes total sense btw
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20:16:35 <peter1138> The savegame conflict is easy to fix.
20:16:49 <peter1138> I'm not sure what's needed for the sprites, though.
20:16:50 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so, would eints directly push OpenTTD/OpenTTD ?
20:17:21 <TrueBrain> frosch123: or you really would like to accept a PR every day?
20:18:09 <frosch123> peter1138: 09f41da863c replaced a few sprites, so i guess use the master file and readd the new nrt sprites
20:18:32 <TrueBrain> most patches apply nicely btw
20:20:15 <andythenorth> peter1138: it's just the tram icon at sprite 178
20:21:23 <Wolf01> <TrueBrain> I could figure out Wolf01's mess :P <- :*
20:21:54 <TrueBrain> dont forget to read the line following ;)
20:23:25 <Wolf01> I would start fresh as a single patch, as master with remotes, branches only for working on features
20:24:55 <Wolf01> Let me check which unpublished branches I have too :D
20:26:19 <andythenorth> it's probably nearly done then
20:26:26 <peter1138> TrueBrain, how I rebase that onto the new master etc?
20:26:36 <Wolf01> Ok, something I could afford to lose, we could move the NRT repo when you want
20:26:41 <peter1138> (leaving that repo read-only, obviously)
20:27:41 <TrueBrain> okay, andythenorth, it is not that bad
20:27:44 <TrueBrain> what I did is this:
20:28:03 <TrueBrain> git rebase --onto origin/master deprecated/master deprecated/road-and-tram-types
20:28:08 <TrueBrain> of the 229 patches it applies
20:28:19 <TrueBrain> the harest are the ones with grf/png changes (binaries)
20:28:29 <TrueBrain> 2 were MSVC project changes
20:28:35 <TrueBrain> the rest were conflicts even I could resolve :P
20:28:37 <andythenorth> some of them just needed openttd.grf rebuilt iirc
20:28:51 <TrueBrain> so if someone goes through that slowly, it is done in a few
20:28:58 <TrueBrain> not the fanciest work, but .. it is also not terrible
20:29:17 <TrueBrain> owh, and a dutch.txt conflict and a greek.txt conflict
20:29:49 <TrueBrain> mainly it seems there was a savegame bump and something changes in master related to road vehicles
20:29:54 <TrueBrain> so that gives a bit of conflicting
20:29:56 <peter1138> Ah, that command "worked"
20:30:07 <TrueBrain> so it is not too bad andythenorth :)
20:30:37 <andythenorth> we will try harder next time
20:30:45 <andythenorth> give you challenges
20:30:58 <TrueBrain> what is weird, how-ever, that the first commit is now a revert :D
20:30:58 <andythenorth> I will revert some merges
20:31:03 <TrueBrain> something about gui branch
20:31:07 <andythenorth> reverting merges is always fun later
20:31:37 <andythenorth> git revert [merge] is how I do it
20:31:41 <andythenorth> followed by trip to docs
20:31:48 <andythenorth> to fix what I broke
20:31:49 <TrueBrain> so andythenorth, if you want to make your branch pull-request worthy, that would be my advise to do
20:33:04 <andythenorth> today is not the day for me to try, for $reasons
20:33:26 <TrueBrain> just enjoy the fact knowing it is not helpless
20:35:01 <andythenorth> it's never helpless :)
20:35:17 <andythenorth> we could always have commited the diff from 229 patches, one at a time :P
20:36:12 <TrueBrain> that is what rebasing does :)
20:36:29 <TrueBrain> just with the power of git, and his very good auto-conflict resolving
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20:45:23 <TrueBrain> frosch123: are the indents in michi_cc's patch really wrong, or is it GitHub? I couldnt figure out ..
20:45:31 <TrueBrain> it seems GitHub doesnt really fancy tabs
20:45:47 <LordAro> github does do weird things with tags
20:45:54 <peter1138> GitHub is not auto converting from tabs to spaces is it?
20:46:05 <LordAro> if you add .patch to the commit url, you get raw diff
20:47:05 <peter1138> There's definitely spaces in that.
20:47:08 <TrueBrain> there indeed I see the indents are wrong
20:47:11 <TrueBrain> that is a bit annoying
20:47:36 <TrueBrain> frosch123: let me rephrase: why didn't the commit-checker pick up that spaces were used instead of tabs? :D
20:49:06 <glx> svn hook refused spaces IIRC
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21:11:42 <frosch123> TrueBrain: we have lots of that in 3rdparty and in some ini files
21:12:02 <frosch123> i could add it, but may make it hard for some files
21:12:46 <LordAro> not difficult to exclude a folder
21:14:56 <frosch123> (one leading blank is common in all doxygen)
21:15:40 <frosch123> possibly we could make the check only for *h,*hpp,*cpp
21:16:15 <frosch123> maybe someone makes a PR :)
21:17:56 <frosch123> and then make it work again :p
21:31:21 <peter1138> Oh god the conflicts.
21:31:58 <peter1138> I should drop it anyway, it's not useful.
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21:34:25 <andythenorth> so when do I get issue editing rights TrueBrain? :D
21:35:19 <andythenorth> there are 382 open
21:35:25 <andythenorth> I reckon I can reduce that
21:35:35 <andythenorth> ~200 would be good
21:35:55 <andythenorth> invalidation is the least-effort way to solve an issue ;)
21:36:21 <Wolf01> 1-5 bugs, ~100 suggestions is about right
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21:41:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: frosch123 is in charge .. ask him :)
21:44:33 <andythenorth> I don't know if frosch123 approves of my work on Flyspray
21:44:38 <andythenorth> I removed about 500 issues :P
21:45:14 <andythenorth> I think I have the answer :P
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22:05:57 <frosch123> how rude, 20 minutes no internet
22:06:10 <frosch123> i considered reading a book
22:07:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: if someone knows how permissions work on github (i don't), i am fine with you and lord closing tasks :)
22:09:16 <TrueBrain> I think that they can also approve prs in that case .. do we care?
22:12:00 <frosch123> the "team" stuff only talks about cloning and pushing
22:12:08 <frosch123> no mention of issues and pr
22:12:18 <peter1138> Damn, doing a rebase and got one of the previous fixes wrong ;(
22:13:00 <peter1138> I guess... recompile between rebase --continue :p
22:25:37 <TrueBrain> permission table dhows write means also closing issues
22:26:11 <frosch123> the protect branches also allows assigning some teams
22:26:27 <frosch123> but i do not find unambiguous docs
22:27:15 <andythenorth> I don't want write :P
22:27:18 <TrueBrain> I am sure they will behave ..njust put them in another team :)
22:27:29 <andythenorth> can you ban me with a post-commit hook?
22:27:52 <TrueBrain> we know where they live :p
22:28:10 <andythenorth> I deliberately got locked out of our production servers at work
22:28:19 <TrueBrain> I prefer post commit punishments
22:28:21 <andythenorth> then I can't be expected to fix things
22:28:30 <andythenorth> which means I won't make Friday mistakes
22:29:03 <andythenorth> I've done dumb stuff even just with fat fingers
22:29:54 <peter1138> Hmm, weird, network connection dropped. On my LAN :S
22:29:54 <andythenorth> I sank a Landrover and two tractors in quicksand once
22:29:58 <andythenorth> that wasn't ops though :P
22:30:16 <frosch123> how to call the team? "friends"? "cats"? "slaves"? "tributaries"?
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22:30:43 <TrueBrain> cats sounds fine too
22:31:09 <frosch123> that would even make sense :p
22:31:13 <andythenorth> ha ha can I be a project manager?
22:31:29 <andythenorth> the failure of OpenTTD is because it has no project manager, right? o-O
22:31:38 <andythenorth> I remember those threads
22:31:44 <peter1138> Nah, it's because I lost my patches.
22:31:48 <peter1138> At least, the ones that finished it.
22:32:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: github seems to have a manager role, which is not allowed to do anything but view/edit billing information
22:33:15 <andythenorth> managers just pay for stuff
22:34:02 <frosch123> the billing manager column
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22:34:59 <andythenorth> probably so you can let finance in without giving them access to src
22:35:09 <andythenorth> preserves role segregation for ISO
22:35:32 <andythenorth> probably genuinely useful :P
22:36:00 <TrueBrain> someone gave them enough momey for it
22:36:20 <frosch123> or they needed it themself
22:36:39 <frosch123> but yes, looks somewhat ad-hoc
22:37:27 <andythenorth> I seem to have a zombie process on a BSD-like OS
22:37:46 <andythenorth> it's running in the UI, but doesn't show in top
22:39:26 <andythenorth> Apple is in a low point of quality again, like 20 years ago
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23:03:14 <Wolf01> Got rid of the zombie?
23:07:58 <andythenorth> nothing else would kill it
23:08:35 <andythenorth> my anti-virus still isn't working, but the zombie is gone
23:09:19 <andythenorth> I have to run the AV scan manually :P
23:09:26 <andythenorth> it's scheduling tool won't start
23:17:05 <peter1138> You should run Windows.
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23:17:59 <andythenorth> people who've switched say it is
23:18:23 <peter1138> Hmm, I got jenkins to run my unit tests automatically finally.
23:18:47 <peter1138> And half fail because they need extra bits that aren't in the unit test project. Good job.
23:20:14 <peter1138> Hah, there's an MS SQL server connection string in there. That hasn't been used for 4 years.
23:20:37 <andythenorth> door_bbboxes should be door_bboxes
23:20:51 <andythenorth> but on a £2500 Mac laptop, working keys are not a feature
23:22:49 * andythenorth is now just waiting for a credible alternative to macOS
23:22:57 <andythenorth> then I can switch
23:25:10 <andythenorth> Macs use to cost £1200, and have a working keyboard
23:25:16 * andythenorth should stop whining
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