IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-02-22
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15:26:19 <Samu> A brand new Hardcore Vibes Version is coming in 2018
15:53:09 <supermop_work> so there is a limit on number of switch blocks?
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17:04:14 <supermop_work> i ran out of switches i think
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17:29:22 <dihedral> switches looove packets
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17:53:36 <Alberth> unfortunately, they don't replicate themselves
17:59:20 <supermop_work> i got an nml error saying it couldn't allocate the switch, and to try reducing the number of such blocks
17:59:46 <supermop_work> i would have thought i only had a few hundred but idk
18:02:40 <supermop_work> i only added 18 since the last time i compiled
18:03:05 <supermop_work> but i plan on adding many more, like for drive-side specific graphics
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18:13:59 <Alberth> maybe merge a few together?
18:14:34 <Alberth> if you have chains of switches
18:23:10 <Samu> time to inflate the number of clients
18:32:59 <Samu> oh, the server also counts as a client, hmm ok
18:33:19 <Samu> so i can only have 63 clients
18:38:48 <Samu> wait a minute, the server, when dedicated doesn't count as a client, but i still can't have 64 clients
18:39:44 <Samu> if server is not dedicated, it counts as a client, the 64 limit is correct then
18:40:07 <supermop_work> Alberth: probably some i can omit, but not sure how many i can really merge
18:40:40 <supermop_work> very few are chains
18:41:13 <supermop_work> the ones that are are typically a sprite stack, where each layer in the stack is a switch
18:43:23 <supermop_work> can't find anything in nml specs that says what the limit is, and if it is separate for switches and sprite groups etc, or if they all the same
18:43:52 <Alberth> nml doesn't output some statistics about it?
18:44:36 <Alberth> iirc a switch has a number so you can refer to it, that's a finite range
18:45:05 <Alberth> but that sort of depends on how many you would need to refer to at the same time
18:45:12 <Alberth> no idea how smart nml is there
18:45:55 <supermop_work> well i tried this compile at home before leaving for work
18:46:11 <supermop_work> so i don't have the nmlc output in front of me right now
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18:50:38 <Samu> I confirm. When I'm a non dedicated server, openttd counts me as a client. If I set a max number of 64 clients, I'm included in
18:51:18 <Samu> When I'm dedicated server, openttd doesn't count me. Only 63 clients can join, while the limit is 64
18:53:06 <Samu> and yet, the total is still 64
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18:53:59 <Samu> there is a bug in the counting
18:54:31 <supermop_work> nmlc's message wan't helpful though... it didn't say 'you have too many switches' instead it says 'could not allocate switch, spritegroup, etc' 'try reducing the number of such blocks'
18:54:53 <supermop_work> to me that is not clear as to whether i actually have too many, or there is some other problem
18:55:54 <supermop_work> also it is unclear if switches and spritegroups affect each other's allocation, like part of some common pool, or if it just reuses the same error message for the same
18:56:26 <supermop_work> i guess it is possible that a spritegroup internally is essentially just another switch
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19:20:52 <Alberth> sorry, no idea how that works
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20:02:56 <Wolf01|Phone> Andy, tried town roads yet?
20:03:33 <andythenorth> I did try to compile it
20:03:50 <andythenorth> OK I pulled the fixes now
20:04:30 <Wolf01|Phone> I fixed the path separator for the header I used
20:05:16 <Wolf01|Phone> Also I think I could remove that header from there as I moved the function too
20:06:01 <andythenorth> ok towns are building unspooled stone roads
20:06:19 <andythenorth> so I need to patch nml
20:08:04 <andythenorth> I have to make dinner, tidy house, do recycling
20:08:10 <andythenorth> but the nml patch is one line :P
20:08:29 <andythenorth> what are we calling the property?
20:08:43 <andythenorth> urgh, do I need to branch for this?
20:08:48 <andythenorth> how stable is this idea?
20:08:55 <Wolf01|Phone> I called it town road choice weight
20:09:39 <Wolf01|Phone> Pretty stable, the problem is if we want it with this implementation
20:09:49 <andythenorth> what's the property, byte, word, etc?
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20:10:42 <Wolf01|Phone> just like the sort order
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20:14:44 <Wolf01|Phone> Ok, bbl, going to find something else to eat (I'm at the restaurant)
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20:17:07 <supermop_work> andythenorth: "town_weight"?
20:18:23 <supermop_work> andythenorth: do you know if there is a ceiling on the number of switches in nml or newgrf?
20:18:41 <andythenorth> you shouldn't run into it
20:18:50 <supermop_work> got an opaque error to that effect this morning
20:19:23 <supermop_work> but i would have assumed it would be between 10,000 and 1,000,000
20:19:33 <supermop_work> not at the office no
20:19:42 <supermop_work> should have brought it along
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20:20:38 <supermop_work> unspooled does not yet have choice weights by the way
20:20:46 <andythenorth> you wouldn't be able to compile them :P
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20:22:41 <supermop_work> anywhere i might be able to find at least the order of magnitude of number of switches i can have?
20:23:23 <supermop_work> i've about 36,000 lines of code, on average i probably have one switch every 10-20 lines
20:23:29 <frosch123> supermop_work: there is only a limit on concurrent switches
20:24:06 <supermop_work> frosch123: does that mean number of concurrent lines of code containing a switch, or length of a switch chain?
20:24:51 <frosch123> if you run into the limit, you have to reshuffle your code
20:25:05 <frosch123> bad grf: all spritesgroups, all switches, all items
20:25:05 <supermop_work> i did lump a bunch of cargo and running cost switches together into a long list
20:25:23 <supermop_work> that is basically my grf
20:25:29 <frosch123> good grf: spritegroups for item 1, switches for item 1, item 1, spritegroups for item 2, switches for item 2, items 2, ...
20:25:54 <supermop_work> items 1..100 often share the same switches though
20:26:06 <supermop_work> i'll see what i can reshuffle
20:26:09 <frosch123> if they share the identical ones, it is fine
20:26:15 <andythenorth> hmm I need to fix Road Hog
20:26:20 <andythenorth> I broke all the AIs :(
20:26:57 <frosch123> supermop_work: anyway, check the previous compile that worked, and see what nml tells you there, about Concurrent spritegroups and in which line the peak was reached
20:27:42 <supermop_work> andythenorth: just make new AIs
20:27:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: django is 504
20:29:13 <andythenorth> one day we rebuild ottd web
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20:43:28 <supermop_work> andythenorth: i sent yesterdays RVs
20:59:43 <supermop_work> never saw that before
21:00:49 <andythenorth> anyone tried the ships stuff in forums?
21:01:12 <supermop_work> seems like some people are
21:01:49 <supermop_work> all my limited playing time is testing nrt grfs
21:02:21 <Knogle> is the website down for a reason?
21:05:52 <andythenorth> website backend has gone away
21:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause> if only there was a linux version...
21:39:36 <supermop_work> so can i add choice weights to unspooled now?
21:39:57 <supermop_work> and is 0 or ff more likely to be chosen?
21:40:10 <Wolf01> That's a good question
21:43:41 <Wolf01> I think less is better, but that's random, also FF has really a low chance, like 1 if all others have high values
21:43:49 <andythenorth> you'll need a new nml again
21:44:24 <supermop_work> also is it absolute, like if asphalt is better than stone, will the town rebuild everything to asphalt as soon as it is available?
21:44:31 <supermop_work> andythenorth: yep
21:45:06 <supermop_work> im thinking of cobblestone roads in old city centers
21:45:07 <Wolf01> No, not yet, but you can convert the seed tile and make the town build that one when it expand
21:45:41 <supermop_work> town builds new roads to match it's seed tile?
21:45:47 <Wolf01> I'm thinking about storing it another way, so you can also change it in the town ui without relying on the seed tile
21:46:10 <Wolf01> Currently yes, it's only an experimental branch
21:46:18 <supermop_work> i don't think player needs to control it necessarily
21:46:53 <Wolf01> It can change everything but the grf property, that's "stable" enough
21:47:32 <supermop_work> i think there are a few things that might be expected behavior, but not absolutely required
21:47:45 <andythenorth> supermop_work: dunno how to get you a windows build
21:48:32 <supermop_work> 1) in ancient times towns have primitive roads, in modern times they have modern roads
21:49:11 <supermop_work> 2) towns might have different roads in different areas depending on the age of those areas
21:50:02 <supermop_work> 3) town might have different roads in different areas depending on the nature of those areas (town zones)
21:50:30 <supermop_work> 1) i think is the most critical to have, and seems like your method allows for this
21:50:44 <Wolf01> supermop_work: I set the filter so you can't have towns with asphalt road if that's not yet available
21:52:07 <Wolf01> Maybe we could extend the feature so you can set which roadtype could be used as upgrade
21:52:22 <Wolf01> But we have to think really well about it
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22:09:43 <supermop_work> 2) is nice to have, and seems like would probably be possible as is
22:09:51 <supermop_work> 3) i don't know if is needed
22:10:47 <supermop_work> Wolf01: I dont know if we need to get that nuanced for upgrading
22:11:49 <supermop_work> maybe some preference for different town zones, but i think the simple choice weight probably provides enough, and we should play with that first
22:12:21 <Wolf01> We could work it out with time
22:12:58 <Wolf01> I would like to have nrt in trunk first, then we'll extend it with more and more features
22:14:22 <supermop_work> i think the most simple possible way of allowing a town to build something other than ROAD is most important for now
22:14:52 <supermop_work> just to allow for "ROAD isn't available until year x'
22:17:00 <supermop_work> i think you've done more than enough for this year
22:18:23 <supermop_work> i need to figure out how to set a parameter based on the drive side game setting
22:18:43 <supermop_work> so i can draw intersection stripes on correct side
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23:31:20 <supermop> [Knmlc ERROR: "moprv55.nml", line 4527: Unable to allocate ID for [random]switch, sprite set/layout/group or produce-block. Try reducing the number of such blocks.
23:36:34 <supermop> i put in some useless sprite definitions to try to break up the switches
23:36:49 <supermop> but the error still occurs at the same switch
23:38:55 <supermop> [K nmlc info: Concurrent spritesets: 10/255 ("moprv55.nml", line 2293) [K nmlc info: Concurrent spritegroups: 256/256 ("moprv55.nml", line 6136) [K nmlc info: Concurrent Action2 registers: 1/127 ("moprv55.nml", line 33433) [K nmlc info: Concurrent ActionD registers: 17/64 ("moprv55.nml", line 29491) [K nmlc info: GRF parameter registers: 11/64
23:39:08 <supermop> ^ from last sucessful compile...
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