IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-11-04
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00:45:01 <PressureLine> Original or Realistic accel model?
00:56:36 <Samu> were you talking to me PressureLine ?
01:02:37 <PressureLine> to anyone listening
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01:22:42 <Samu> gonna take a look at his code
01:23:02 <Samu> i notice ppl heavily comment their stuff
01:27:17 <Samu> I did it way simpler, probably why I complain about shortcomings
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01:48:00 <PressureLine> need to decide what cargo to do next
01:56:11 <PressureLine> Farms are suct a pain
01:56:29 <PressureLine> rather than just producing 1x set of goods at a good rate
01:56:48 <PressureLine> produce 2x, at an uneven, rubbish rate
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04:08:59 <PressureLine> would be nice if those stupid transmitters could use foundations
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04:16:59 <supermop_home> that's the point
04:17:18 <supermop_home> transmitters are just an obstavle
04:18:21 <PressureLine> but even on industries i can drop a corner of a tile under the industry
04:19:24 <supermop_home> yeah, I guess the point of the transmitter is to limit terraforming as much as possible
04:20:13 <PressureLine> probably not as efficient as it could be, but seems to be doing the job
04:21:10 <supermop_home> the most efficient will always have to involve an aesthetic compromise
04:21:24 <supermop_home> eg a loops or 'roro' station
04:21:57 <supermop_home> i'd forgotten what original arctic looked like
04:22:01 <PressureLine> going for 'realistic-ish'
04:22:26 <supermop_home> for 'realistic' path signal station throats are best
04:23:33 <PressureLine> yep. but traffic jams
04:24:10 <PressureLine> or more "incoming trains blocking outgoing trains (and v.v) on a regular basis"
04:25:02 <supermop_home> I generally try to timetable a clockwork schedule even for freight
04:25:21 <PressureLine> way too advanced for me :D
04:25:29 <supermop_home> so nothing is trying to arrive at the same time something is leaving
04:25:54 <supermop_home> I spend 90% of the time I play in pause trying to work out schedules
04:26:07 <PressureLine> to use or not to use
04:26:40 <PressureLine> given that all the trains on this line are 55kph trains :/
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04:30:03 <supermop_home> the other 10% I am checking the messed up sprite offsets in my grf
04:30:22 <supermop_home> and I just spilled mescal all over my computer
04:31:02 <PressureLine> im usually pretty good with stuff from the states
04:31:13 <supermop_home> its from mexico!
04:31:18 <PressureLine> but *woosh* as that reference flies over my head
04:31:27 <supermop_home> which does also have states to be fair
04:31:43 <PressureLine> im not even in the same hemisphere :D
04:32:04 <supermop_home> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="yes"?>
04:32:04 <supermop_home> <Archive name="Root">
04:32:04 <supermop_home> <!--Grasshopper archive-->
04:32:04 <supermop_home> <!--Grasshopper and GH_IO.dll are copyrighted by Robert McNeel & Associates-->
04:32:04 <supermop_home> <!--Archive generated by GH_IO.dll file utility library {0.2.0002}-->
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04:33:51 <PressureLine> "Despite the similar name, mezcal does not contain mescaline or other psychedelic substances."
04:34:09 <supermop_home> but it is sublime
04:34:09 <PressureLine> the only thing I could think of was mescaline
04:34:25 <PressureLine> and was like "he seems pretty coherent for someone on mescaline"
04:34:29 <supermop_home> it does come from a succulent plant
04:34:43 <supermop_home> so it has that in common with mescaline
04:35:13 <PressureLine> "While mescaline-containing cacti of the genus Echinopsis are technically controlled substances under the Controlled Substances Act, they are commonly sold publicly as ornamental plants."
04:37:20 <PressureLine> maybe i should just ignore the FD20 until it can do 80kph (in 1936)
04:37:26 <supermop_home> well smells pretty good in here now
04:38:35 <PressureLine> but yeah. its faster than all the current freight locos
04:38:44 <PressureLine> which will cause snarlups
04:38:46 <supermop_home> have used polish set sometimes
04:39:05 <supermop_home> but its a little too rivet-countery to be fun for my taste
04:39:05 <PressureLine> ussr set w/ SBB set wagons
04:39:37 <PressureLine> (because there's *^*^ing gaps in the wagon lineup)
04:40:04 <supermop_home> you can set the train to run slower in the timetable
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04:45:41 <Pressure_Line> [16:41:15] <PressureLine> would be nice if it was an option for 'regular' order
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04:55:27 <supermop_home> please use mop RV
04:56:04 <PressureLine> b b but i'll have to start a new game
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09:07:41 <Pressure_Line> playing moar with Road Hog
09:08:00 <Pressure_Line> having the length of the vehicles listed somewhere would be useful
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09:09:25 <Pressure_Line> and im just blind/stupid
09:10:00 <andythenorth> how would it help you?
09:10:46 <andythenorth> articulated vs. non-articulated?
09:10:50 <andythenorth> or actual lengths?
09:11:00 <Pressure_Line> actual lengths (like for trains
09:11:38 <andythenorth> trams are easy, they're all 16/8 except mail tram
09:11:51 <andythenorth> single tile length
09:11:58 <andythenorth> trucks vary more
09:13:08 <Pressure_Line> i thought that some of 1st gen trams (Scrooby Top etc) were 1.1 for some reason
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09:13:42 <andythenorth> there was a bug where one tram was missing a wagon, so wrong length
09:13:55 <andythenorth> rest are 16/8, makes for easy station use
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09:14:25 <Pressure_Line> id probably be more interested in such a thing if I was a regular HEQS user
09:14:36 <andythenorth> HEQS is a mess :)
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09:33:43 <Pressure_Line> I wonder how good V's 32bpp->8bpp converter is
09:36:57 <alluke> i guess theres only one way to find out
09:37:40 <alluke> why can't i login into web translator?
09:37:55 <Pressure_Line> because reasons
09:38:59 <Pressure_Line> did there used to be a bug w/ articulated vehicles and realistic acceleration?
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10:59:13 <alluke> COFFEEEEEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEEEEEE
11:01:43 <andythenorth> ok Steeltown is boring
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11:03:04 <Pressure_Line> coffee is great
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11:22:57 <andythenorth> is it worth switching to Windows?
11:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> for what purpose?
11:24:15 <Wolf01> If for the glory of Satan, yes
11:24:45 <andythenorth> Spintires is Windows only
11:25:00 <andythenorth> and also Macs don't work right any more
11:27:25 <alluke> spintires is fun, ive played it on friends pc
11:27:43 <alluke> how mas dont work right
11:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there are plenty of games available for linux nowadays
11:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i barely ever started wine in the past 2 years
11:30:18 <alluke> wine is pain in the ass to get work properly
11:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i've used it for ~10 years
11:32:57 <alluke> i tried to make gta sa run on it but cannot find the config to make graphics work properly
11:33:19 <alluke> the shaders and such need to be tweaked
11:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> part of the reason why wine has declined so much for me is lack of DX11 support
11:35:02 <alluke> do you have nya idea how the config works
11:35:10 <alluke> in cider its just a text file
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11:46:07 * andythenorth wrecks FIRS more
11:46:18 <andythenorth> delete Steeltown? o_O
12:10:25 <Pressure_Line> andythenorth> Spintires is Windows only
12:10:29 <Pressure_Line> spintires is great
12:10:41 <Pressure_Line> too bad Pavel is such a colossal tool
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12:11:36 <PressureLine> want run looooong trains
12:11:53 <PressureLine> all industries on map are rubbish
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12:32:27 <andythenorth> OpenTTD is pretty unreasonable about crashing`
12:32:42 <andythenorth> why crash when I delete a grf that's in use?
12:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. totally unreasonable
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12:44:14 <andythenorth> seems like it wants something stupid, like loading sprites from disk
12:44:24 <andythenorth> totally unreasonable
12:44:45 <alluke> is there any way to completely remove AI from game
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13:06:31 <alluke> @andythenorth when will chips get snow-awareness? the same ground tiles firs uses atm
13:07:43 <alluke> i love chips but thats the only annoying feature atm
13:07:58 <andythenorth> what is the point of a station set with snow?
13:08:28 <alluke> blend into th escenery
13:08:42 <andythenorth> but then all cargo sprites look same: snow
13:08:48 <andythenorth> and all ground types look same: snow
13:08:56 <andythenorth> defeats the point, no?
13:09:13 <alluke> yes but only during winter
13:09:20 <alluke> i wouldnt snow the cargo sprites tho
13:09:36 <andythenorth> someone could fork it
13:09:52 <alluke> there could be some tire tracks etc to separate them a bit from ground tiles
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13:13:05 <alluke> does bulk terminal have any restrictions on how much water it needs around
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13:17:14 <andythenorth> failing to build?
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13:18:52 <alluke> i guess the lake is just too small
13:19:09 <alluke> which firs psd file contains snow sprites? cant find
13:19:42 <andythenorth> depends on the industry
13:20:13 <andythenorth> some are also in psds, some aren't
13:20:43 <andythenorth> CHIPS lacks a coder btw
13:20:48 <andythenorth> I have NFI how the code works
13:21:00 <andythenorth> so your on your own for adding snow
13:36:15 <andythenorth> yes that's the ground tile
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13:52:43 <alluke> when someone wants to code the snow awareness there are ready sprites
13:53:23 <andythenorth> might be a while waiting :)
13:53:36 <andythenorth> you could recode CHIPS
13:53:47 <alluke> who coded the previous versions?
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13:54:32 <andythenorth> he's on linkedin
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14:29:43 <andythenorth> maybe I should put explosives back into Steeltown :P
14:38:51 <Arveen> talking about Steeltown - is it safe to upgrade the version within a running game of FIRS3 ?
14:41:37 <Arveen> got a Steeltown game running atm in which I spend like 20 hrs so far
14:41:58 <alluke> sucks that save games seem to have some kind of sprite cache that gets breached
14:42:08 <alluke> orevents new firses from working properly
14:42:14 <alluke> if upgraded too many times
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14:48:44 <alluke> all graphics are default coal mine
14:51:24 <alluke> if i upgrade to firs for first time it works fine, after second or third upgrade the graphics get fucked
14:52:27 <andythenorth> sounds quite special
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15:20:49 <val_> I tried using notes on wiki openttd but it don't work, support it ?
15:22:42 <val_> i've used: <ref>text</ref> and <references/>
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17:05:01 <Samu> even cargoes have their own identity
17:05:17 <Samu> this game is really precise
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17:05:48 <Samu> now I understand that variety I was getting
17:09:41 <Samu> i was thinking i'd be always working with 5 pieces at a time, then suddenly, I work with 1 piece + 4 pieces, due to this cargo packeting
17:10:10 <Samu> now I see why the closest industry would always get higher amounts of wood
17:12:32 <val_> wiki openttd support references, notes ?
17:16:48 <LordAro> ah, orudge actually keeps his stuff up to date :p
17:18:14 <Samu> I'm gonna call this "cargo packet fragmentation"
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17:27:48 <Samu> - packets { size=2 } std::list<CargoPacket *,std::allocator<CargoPacket *> >
17:28:35 <LordAro> frosch123: "This [cite] extension comes with MediaWiki 1.21 and above...."
17:28:42 <LordAro> not exactly by choice :p
17:28:50 <LordAro> just that ottd wiki is so old...
17:32:04 <andythenorth> if you only use trains
17:32:10 <andythenorth> Steeltown is the worst thing ever
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17:46:38 <frosch123> LordAro: i think we had to install it separately for newgrf wiki, no idea how long ago that was
17:47:54 <frosch123> LordAro: 1.21 is from 2013, newgrfwiki is from 2011
17:48:18 <LordAro> so someone actually updated it? :o
17:52:48 <Samu> Industry *ind = st->industries_near[RandomRange(st->industries_near.Length())];
17:52:54 <Samu> what's the worst that could happen? :p
17:56:39 <Alberth> computational melt-down?
17:58:05 <Alberth> total earth destruction sounds pretty bad too
17:58:22 <Alberth> not sure if it is significant for us
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18:03:35 <Samu> so instead of delivering cargo to the nearest industries first, and iterating towards the farthest industries, I'm trying to deliver cargo randomly
18:04:31 <Samu> let's see how biased RandomRange is
18:05:40 <Samu> woah, not so biased after all
18:07:17 <Samu> not bad, i expected worse
18:09:25 <Alberth> discrete uniform distribution is quite nicely flat indeed :)
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18:10:37 <Samu> hmm, there is a problem, i don't count 240 total :(
18:10:44 <Samu> only 217, something is wrong :(
18:11:11 <Samu> no, they have no ratings
18:11:31 <Samu> something's wrong with the iterator
18:11:48 <Samu> for (uint i = 0; i < st->industries_near.Length() && num_pieces != 0; i++) { Industry *ind = st->industries_near[RandomRange(st->industries_near.Length())];
18:13:05 <Samu> randomrange(11) does make it pick a number from 0-10? or 0-11?
18:14:33 <Alberth> no idea, the docs should make that clear
18:16:05 <Alberth> why do you stop after "Length" iterations?
18:18:36 <Alberth> I am not even sure why you iterate at all, tbh, you split the delivered cargo in small pieces?
18:19:11 <Samu> yes, 1 by 1, with a do, while
18:19:41 <Alberth> nice if you need to deliver 3000 cargo
18:21:01 <Samu> 5 at a time, maximum, if the cargo packet isn't fragmented
18:21:11 <Samu> then it's 4 +1 or 3 + 2, etc
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18:23:31 <Samu> i got 11 industries in this case and a random number of pieces going from 1 to 5
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18:28:35 <Samu> hmm, the iterator only iterates 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, then it runs out of pieces
18:28:58 <Samu> never got random being = 11
18:29:39 <Samu> so that's fine, then why the sum of all pieces delivered by the train isn't 240 ?
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18:33:13 <Alberth> delivering a large amount to only a few industries will likely trigger your Length limitation
18:34:22 <Alberth> print how much you deliver to what
18:35:38 <Samu> i was expecting the sum of all goods produced to be 240
18:36:21 <Samu> now I got 224, something is being lost :(
18:37:57 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 0.933333333333
18:38:40 <Alberth> bit high for station rating, isn't it?
18:39:03 <Samu> station rating doesn't matter here :(
18:39:18 <Samu> it's the industry taking delivered cargo
18:39:53 <Samu> the station accepts, and there 11 industries near the station
18:39:55 <Alberth> "goods" is produced cargo, not delivered cargo
18:40:43 <Samu> the sum of all "production last month" should be 240
18:41:19 <Alberth> accepted cargo amount and delivered cargo amounts are not equal
18:41:36 <Alberth> the station rating fraction is between them
18:41:53 <Alberth> try unpatched openttd with 1 industry
18:47:49 <Alberth> did you try to deliver to the same industry more than once?
18:48:20 <Samu> yes, it can do that, can't it?
18:49:29 <Samu> ind->incoming_cargo_waiting[cargo_index] += amount;
18:51:21 <Samu> gonna try my old method, isntead of a random iterator
18:51:54 <Alberth> did you sum how much cargo you tried to deliver for a second or later time to the same industry?
18:54:00 <Samu> not sure I understand the question
18:55:14 <Samu> my old way is doing correct
18:55:30 <Samu> i wonder if it can be delivered twice to the same industry
18:56:23 <Samu> Industry *ind = st->industries_near[0];
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18:57:59 <Samu> 240 to one industry, it worked... very odd
18:59:41 <Samu> i dont understand why it fails if it's random
19:01:08 <Wolf01> Is industries_near randomized each time?
19:04:36 <Samu> if the length can be at times less than 11? I don't think that can happen
19:04:50 <Alberth> remove an industry :p
19:05:30 <Samu> i didn't remove any, they're all there yet
19:05:44 <Samu> so, it should always be 11 nearby industries
19:07:46 <Samu> gonna try another assert
19:08:49 <Samu> assert(st->industries_near.Length() == 11);
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19:10:38 <Samu> gonna demolish one, see if it crashes
19:11:04 <Samu> yep, crashed openttd right away
19:11:44 <Samu> assert(r < st->industries_near.Length() && r >= 0);
19:11:53 <Samu> also tried that, never crashed because of it
19:12:03 <Samu> RandomRange is doing fine
19:12:47 <Samu> unless an industry temporarily refuses cargo? but how can that happen?
19:16:30 <Alberth> pnly newgrf industries can do that, eg ECS
19:17:19 <Alberth> not sure if you can deliver cargo to the same industry multiple times
19:17:34 <Alberth> (for newgrf industries)
19:17:58 <Samu> i tried it just a moment ago, delivered piece by piece
19:18:06 <Samu> 240 were delivered to the same industry
19:18:43 <Alberth> ok, so double deliveries are not a problem apparently
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19:36:38 <Samu> i->produced_cargo_waiting[0] = min(i->produced_cargo_waiting[0] + (cargo_waiting * indspec->input_cargo_multiplier[cargo_index][0] / 256), 0xFFFF);
19:36:44 <Samu> could be a rounding error from this?
19:37:07 <Samu> hmm nah, strange if it was
19:45:55 <Samu> this_month_production, how is this being updated?
19:49:19 <alluke> installed yellow headlights to my car
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19:59:48 <alluke> because its old and french
20:00:27 <Samu> RecomputeProductionMultipliers - i wonder if this has an impact on cargo
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20:01:34 <Samu> i deliver 240 wood, but the industry could perhaps produce half of it?
20:01:45 <Samu> could something like that happen?
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20:03:20 <Samu> maybe the missing cargo originates from this? how can i tell?
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21:40:13 <Samu> anyways, I just manually calculated every sum each industry was receiving
21:40:34 <Samu> i got 240, therefore it's a display problem
21:41:22 <Samu> the problem isn't originating where I made changes, but further down the code
21:43:55 <Samu> i'm suspicious of production last month not being updated correctly?
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22:35:18 <Samu> this is really strange, i just got 254 now
22:35:45 <Samu> got 241 before this last delivery
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continue to next day ⏵
