IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-05-07
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00:16:41 <supermop> can i have a truck refit to less capacity for certain cargo types?
00:17:10 <supermop> like 40 crates of goods, but if you refit to bulk, it only holds 20T?
00:25:26 <frosch123> want to know how, or just planning?
00:26:44 <frosch123> in addition to "capacity" in the "properties" section you can also put a "capacity" into the "graphics" section and link it to a switch
00:27:30 <frosch123> cargo_classes_in_consist then gives you the cargo classed
00:27:53 <frosch123> actually "cargo_classes" is better
00:28:14 <frosch123> you can also check specific cargos via "cargo_type_in_veh"
00:28:38 <frosch123> however, if you add "capacity" to "graphics", do not remove "capacity" from "properties"
00:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> some people have run into traps with this where the default cargo for purchase menu screwed up their calculations
00:35:19 <supermop> also, is it easy to have a param to say, double or halve all capacities?
00:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> might be a bit tedious
00:35:53 <supermop> vanilla style capacities for trucks are tiny if playing with any other sets
00:36:21 <frosch123> it's a matter of adding "* param_capacity" to all "capacity" definitions in your source
00:36:43 <supermop> that does sound a bit tedious
00:36:58 <frosch123> it entirely depends on your search+replace skills :)
00:37:13 <supermop> but so is all the cargo graphic stuff im doing now
00:37:17 <frosch123> no idea how many vehicles you have
00:38:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in CETS i simply have one callback for each possible base capacity
00:38:37 <supermop> 4 generations, bus, mail truck, goods truck, open truck, hopper, flatbed, 2 generations of container carrier
00:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so if i have 100 vehicle, and each one has a base capacity of 20, 30 or 50, then i put capacity_20_switch, capacity_30_switch or capacity_50_switch
00:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> then the switches handle the doubling, etc.
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00:50:33 <supermop> huh what lable is lumber in firs?
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00:53:33 <supermop> im not drawing vehicle bodies yet, so those are goin to just get shipped in crates
00:56:10 <supermop> i hope that gets shipping in big rolls that just happen to look like steel coils
00:56:25 <supermop> otherwise crates again
01:03:33 <supermop> where i have: loaded: [spriteset_mkii_t_flat_empty, spriteset_mkii_t_flat_full_lumber];
01:03:51 <supermop> can i but a middle one in there for halfway full?
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01:06:56 <Wolf01> I have 2 choices now: try to get me banned from astroneer forums OR ignore and just continue to read only mode as I always do
01:08:00 <supermop> hmm forgot to add sand graphics for open truck
01:08:16 <supermop> maybe open truck should carry sand in crates
01:08:28 <supermop> otherwise too much trouble to shovel it out
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01:10:57 <supermop> frosch123 will that bulk class switch also work to make the default graphic to some pile if class is bulk, instead of crates?
01:16:25 <supermop> i assume andy will add more and more types of ore
01:17:08 <frosch123> if you do 8bpp graphics you can also add recoloring sprites to save on drawing actual sprites
01:18:10 <supermop> also i already drew a pile for iron ore, scrap, coal, and gravel
01:18:27 <supermop> but i could recolor the ore to other ores i guess
01:18:53 <frosch123> you can do that with your drawing program
01:19:00 <frosch123> but you can also tell ottd to do it
01:19:12 <frosch123> which may make it easier for multiple loading stages
01:20:29 <supermop> i feel like i am forgetting a truck type
01:21:20 <supermop> oh, livestock and grain hopper
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09:42:38 <Alberth> ha, another game that I play :)
09:46:53 <Alberth> basically a city builder, but you have war mixed in it
09:47:31 <Alberth> and lots of community stuff, of course
09:48:12 <Alberth> and being commercial, lots of opportunities to spend money, if you want
09:48:25 <Alberth> but it's very playable without spending money
09:48:59 <Alberth> I have been playing since end 2015, some people since 2012
09:49:41 <Alberth> innogames has a lot of such MMO games
09:50:27 <Alberth> all clan-vs-clan based war-ish games, as that attracts people :)
09:50:46 <Alberth> forge of empires is the most harmless there
09:50:59 <Alberth> other of their games are more focussed on that aspect
09:51:50 <andythenorth> it’s MMO, not casual single-player?
09:51:56 * andythenorth can’t understand the website :)
09:52:34 <Alberth> it's real-time, and very MMO, ie millions of users world-wide
09:53:00 <Alberth> but not real-time as in needing to be present and direct interaction
09:53:28 <Alberth> you can mostly organize it around other things in your life
09:54:01 <Alberth> so you log on, do some stuff, log out again
09:54:59 <Alberth> wikia is the non-official wikipedia on foe, it doesn't aim to explain the game :)
09:55:37 * andythenorth should probably find a new game
09:55:54 <andythenorth> has anyone open-sourced Warcraft 1 yet? :P
09:58:56 <andythenorth> I considered Tropico, but reviews of Mac version are bad
09:59:33 <andythenorth> also I have to finish FIRS v3 :P
10:00:26 <Alberth> too many options and not enough time :)
10:03:34 <andythenorth> 9 industries to draw
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11:25:07 * andythenorth fixed grfcodec compile
11:25:43 <andythenorth> it’s not good enough fix though
11:25:53 <andythenorth> isystem/opt/local/include assumes macports
11:26:16 <andythenorth> I have added the brew location to L3, but it’s version-specific
11:26:44 <andythenorth> might be better to set the path as a var from “libpng-config --cflags” ??
11:32:25 <Wolf01> You should use environment variables too, it's bad to set hardcoded versions
11:36:47 <Wolf01> I would like to try a factorio multiplayer game, but bandwidth is against my idea :|
11:45:28 <Alkel_U3> Is it that demanding? Also what are you on, dial-up? :-)
11:47:33 <Wolf01> No, it's just windows updating stuff
11:48:21 <Alkel_U3> oh, that explains it and also it sucks
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11:50:28 <Wolf01> If I only had a better connection I would had to wait less time
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11:57:25 <Wolf01> Ok, it seem the agony has come to an end... anyone for a game?
11:58:40 <Alkel_U3> give me 20 minutes :-)
12:00:53 <Wolf01> I'm in the TTForums group on steam if you want to find me
12:06:36 <Wolf01> Mmmh, good starting area
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12:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> don't the windwos updates stop if there is other demand on the bandwidth?
12:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or am i missing the point of "background" and "intelligent" in BITS?
12:56:12 <Wolf01> Windows updates do... store updates are a special kind of stupid
12:56:41 <Alkel_U3> you're not missing the point, win. update is :-)
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13:27:49 <Alberth> you don't actually think you are anywhere near relevant for windows, eh?
14:01:20 * andythenorth wonders why that doesn’t happen more often
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14:28:43 <andythenorth> broke my savegame :P
14:41:59 * andythenorth makes new paper mill
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16:10:36 <supermop> andythenorth: you ever draw sacks?
16:12:16 <andythenorth> they’d just be blobs
16:12:39 <supermop> coffee, mail, grain s=feels more apropriate to be in sacks in open truck
16:13:45 <supermop> looks more like paper mills i've actually seen
16:14:26 <supermop> CC is on the water tank dunnage?
16:18:30 <supermop> am i on the right track?
16:24:31 <supermop> now need to use that switch somehow
16:31:48 <Alberth> andy: wood storage looks a bit silly, but otherwise looking good!
16:32:42 <frosch123> a cargo has multiple cargoclasses, so your switch only needs to check for a masked subset of them
16:33:35 <frosch123> LordAro: i found my lost construction robot from a few days ago \o/
16:34:56 <frosch123> looks like my inventory was full with wood and it dropped the robot onto the floor
16:50:40 <quiznilo> how come one desert town needs food and goods to grow and this other does not? Is it because one is a town and one is a city?
16:51:28 <quiznilo> or maybe one is on the coast and the other is inland
16:52:51 <frosch123> desert is decided by the tile with the station sign
16:53:03 <frosch123> very small towns do not need food
16:53:12 <frosch123> to ensure that they are big enough to actually accept food
16:53:48 <quiznilo> well, the large city says it needs food and goods, the second largest city says it does not
16:54:09 <quiznilo> and not on the station card, on the city card
16:54:22 <frosch123> vanilla cities never say they need goods
16:54:32 <frosch123> so, do you have a gamescript running?
16:54:51 <quiznilo> many I think, i actually didn't set this up... it's from gamescripts?
16:55:11 <frosch123> hmm, or from some newgrf which has no water and substitutes it with goods
17:01:42 <supermop> cover on grain trucks: white of CC?
17:02:32 <frosch123> i.e. draw them as cc
17:02:56 <frosch123> is the rest of the wagon 1cc or 2cc?
17:03:16 <supermop> the grain hopper is 2cc with a thin 1cc stripe
17:03:57 <frosch123> anyway it's easy to set either of the two cc randomly to a fixed colour
17:04:18 <frosch123> so you can draw stuff in 2cc and then randomly set one of the colors to white or whateer
17:04:30 <supermop> internet shows white rigid covers, grey tarp like covers, and color matched rigid covers
17:06:03 <supermop> if i want the random color to only afftect the cover, do i need to composite sprites?
17:06:38 <frosch123> if you want 3 colorings (2cc plus cover) then you do that by compositing sprites
17:08:30 <frosch123> you can use the same thing to recolor mineral piles
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17:58:46 <supermop> how do i control the draw order of composited sprites?
18:09:48 <frosch123> they are drawn in the order you give them
18:10:03 <frosch123> there is no sorting involved
18:10:39 <frosch123> they behave like "one sprite"
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19:07:54 <morbest> Hi, is it possible to script openttd in Perl 6?
19:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends what you're trying to do
19:10:56 <morbest> Make some binding, than making a script that automatically upgrade train lines from eletric to maglev copying all trains running on it
19:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the internal game/ai scripts are written in squirrel. the admin port you can interface with any language that you can find a library for, or you just write one
19:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that kind of assisting-the-player script is not really supported
19:12:26 <morbest> I find the game fun, but some part of it just kill it
19:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> (that is a deliberate choice to prevent "cheating" in multiplayer)
19:12:57 <morbest> ok, makes sense somehow
19:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> in single player, you can start an AI company and then use the company cheat to move yourself to that company
19:23:13 <Alberth> it's simpler to use a train set that doesn't force upgrading to a different rail type
19:24:47 <Alberth> or play at a different year, so you never encounter the upgrade problem
19:24:50 <morbest> If the game had option to keep train of different rail types on the same depot, it would be easy
19:25:14 <Eddi|zuHause> there is, it's called "universal railtype" GRF
19:25:16 <morbest> would be just recalling all to the depot, and set automatic update
19:25:55 <Alberth> I tend to keep the existing lines, and build new lines instead
19:26:15 <Alberth> needs disabling of vehicle expiration
19:26:58 <Alberth> mass-upgrade seems the simplest solution, but I think it's a bad one
19:28:13 <Alberth> with all the tools in the program, it's not a switch like the original intended it to be
19:28:54 <Alberth> it got reduced to just a silly steps you have to do
19:28:56 <morbest> I think that with mass upgrade, all train ends up look the same
19:29:21 <Alberth> of course, that's what mass-upgrade means
19:29:43 <Alberth> if you don't have that tool, you would build new lines instead
19:29:43 <morbest> but crowding of train lines prevent differentiation in any case
19:29:53 <Alberth> which is an order of magnitude more fun
19:30:36 <Alberth> higher speeds should decrease the number of trains
19:31:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: what was weird about the wood storage at the paper mill? o_O
19:31:27 <Alberth> it looks like a cattle storage, so the wood doesn't run away :)
19:31:36 <peter1138> yup autorenew/replace should be dropped
19:32:29 <Alberth> I think wood just becomes lots of big stacks without any fence around it :)
19:33:38 <andythenorth> Dan was referencing original TTD paper mill I guess
19:33:51 <Alberth> you don't need 3 houses for the administration either, I think :)
19:33:59 <andythenorth> ^^ I think that image has a sulphur stockpile in the middle of it also
19:35:25 <Alberth> fence would be fine, but it needs to be stronger to stop a wood avalanche :)
19:36:05 <andythenorth> I’ll work on it :)
19:36:15 <morbest> there should be a way to corrupt cities less idiotic than planting forests everywhere, is there?
19:36:53 <frosch123> building bus stations and sending busses in circles
19:38:30 <andythenorth> generally having a decent rating :P
19:38:50 <Alberth> don't bother about cities works too :p
19:39:39 <morbest> the point is that when cities becomes big, one would like to work on them. but they dont allow
19:40:52 <Alberth> build infra-structure earlier, or buy the land
19:41:35 <andythenorth> magic bulldozer :P
19:42:00 <morbest> this is not what happens in real life: if you have billions the major dont just tell you 'the local authority refuses' hehehe
19:42:28 <frosch123> true, usually people riot and throw over the government, or they get all shot
19:44:26 <Alberth> the game doesn't aim to be a simulation
19:44:44 <Alkel_U3> yep, OpenTTD is otherwise a very realistic simulation and this needs to be adressed; I'd give it priority before removing trains
19:46:11 <Alberth> removing trains will nicely solve this problem
19:46:40 <andythenorth> why remove trains?
19:46:46 <andythenorth> they’re the only good bit
19:46:52 <Alkel_U3> because canals have to stay
19:47:05 <Alberth> I think people got upset about removing canals
19:47:27 <andythenorth> I thought we were removing kennels
19:47:51 <Alberth> we have dogs in OpenTTD?
19:48:00 <Alberth> must have missed something there
19:48:16 <Alberth> unless it's a new cargo for FIRS3
19:48:48 <Alkel_U3> Dog-breeding economy?
19:48:57 <Alberth> alaskan set could work, nice roadtype :)
19:49:30 <Alberth> should be snow-only :)
19:51:30 <andythenorth> so how should I fix grfcodec? o_O
19:51:38 <andythenorth> I am way out of my depth :P
19:52:38 <andythenorth> it’s only a path issue :P
19:53:02 <Alberth> can't just hack makefile to make it compile?
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20:07:28 <Alberth> save the patch file for the next time :)
20:23:16 <zeroapoc> Is there a place I can find a content mod pack? Or list for good content combos?
20:24:45 <andythenorth> sometimes people post preferred grf lists in tt-forums
20:28:04 * andythenorth would say ‘try things made by andythenorth'
20:28:06 <andythenorth> but that might be wrong
20:32:24 <andythenorth> trucks got bigger eh
20:38:13 <Alberth> "good" very much depends on your play style
20:38:53 <Alberth> roads got bigger, trucks has to grow with them :p
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20:51:43 <zeroapoc> I prefer a casual style of gameplay
20:52:09 <zeroapoc> I get enough of a headache trying to learn c++. Gaming is for non challenging relaxation
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21:47:32 <supermop_> well ive wasted a ton of time figuring out how best to make drums look in an open truck bed
21:53:06 <supermop_> open truck holds 8 drums in _ and 6 in /
21:53:15 <supermop_> people will just have to live with that
21:56:05 <andythenorth> nobody will ever count except you
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