IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-09-24
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09:37:34 <andythenorth> using train length 5 everywhere is very logical, but very boring also
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10:47:51 <argoneus> good morning train friends
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11:20:31 <andythenorth> needs some alternative types of road
11:21:08 * andythenorth wonders if anyone has ever considered that
11:23:29 <frosch123> the translator credits contain "es_MX" :)
11:24:38 <andythenorth> frosch123: o_O bug
11:25:29 <frosch123> but maybe some regex fails
11:26:20 <frosch123> hmm, no, apparently we duplicated the language names to yet another script :p
11:28:07 <andythenorth> we should fetch them from the network
11:28:34 * andythenorth has to maintain constants across 3 vehicle grfs, for cargo colours and such
11:28:40 <frosch123> well, let's see what the next release says :)
11:30:15 <Alberth> make a constant sub-project :p
11:30:46 <frosch123> "constant" is an abbreviation for "constantly changing"
11:33:17 <Alberth> maybe we should have "real constant" and "moving constant" as type
11:33:49 <Alberth> but perhaps there are actually not many real constants
12:05:47 <andythenorth> maybe I should just hack at it, instead of trying to make a nice set of commits
12:25:28 <Alberth> that usually works better as a first attempt
12:26:02 <Alberth> once it works, you can make a new set of commits which improves on nice-ness :)
12:38:23 <andythenorth> maybe I should write a reference grf (nml file) first
12:38:32 <andythenorth> then keep hacking until it stops failing to compile
12:38:38 <andythenorth> and hope all the tests pass
12:40:33 <andythenorth> maybe nml should ship with reference grfs for each feature :P
12:40:41 <Wolf01> <Alberth> maybe we should have "real constant" and "moving constant" as type <- maybe you are looking for "variable"?
12:41:55 <Alberth> that changes a little too fast, perhaps :)
12:42:40 <Alberth> it often can't even decide what value to have in a single program run :)
12:42:49 <andythenorth> global properties :P
12:43:01 <andythenorth> mutable, but not variables
12:43:47 <andythenorth> ‘context specific constants’ :P
12:43:53 * andythenorth has spent too long around python web frameworks
12:49:08 <Alberth> Likely, these things exist at more places :)
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14:36:26 <Samu> i present to you my coding skills ^_^
14:37:01 <Samu> terraform decision for ship depot placement
14:39:15 * andythenorth seeks a ‘very high’ industry setting
14:41:33 <andythenorth> bigger map, higher water setting
15:02:23 * andythenorth needs a grfid for Unsinkable Sam
15:06:44 <andythenorth> FIRS ‘extreme’ is much better with very high industry count
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15:28:53 <Wolf01> I made the level land tool work as expected, the raise/lower tools are too fast but they work well to make smooth hills if you keep the mouse button pressed for less than a second
15:30:48 <Wolf01> Still have problems drawing the affected area for the cursor, but I can't change the _thd.selstart as I use it to retrieve the height of the tile from I started to draw
15:33:21 <Wolf01> The good thing is that now I can terraform a 256^2 map with a good looking terrain in less than a minute
15:36:46 <Samu> building canals, the real one
15:36:53 <Samu> should it auto-terraform
15:37:29 <Samu> what about drag and drop building of canals?
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15:38:43 <Samu> meh, while at it, should it auto-build-lock on inclined slopes when drag-and-drop building canals?
15:40:11 <Samu> that would make it too easy
15:41:04 <Samu> but it's an interesting idea
15:41:21 <Wolf01> We introduced CTRL+build station to ease station walking, why not even auto-lock on slopes while building canals?
15:41:24 <frosch123> Wolf01: remember the previous tile in some global var, and only execuite if tiles differ?
15:42:17 <Wolf01> Thank you frosch123, I'm trying that right now, as I really need to fix the tile hightlight data
15:42:34 <andythenorth> ships should just be able to go up the slope
15:44:30 <frosch123> Wolf01: i guess you can also change selstart, if you save the height in some other variable
15:44:42 <Wolf01> andythenorth, if you don't want locks just build canals at the same height ;)
15:44:52 <andythenorth> I just lower land
15:45:05 <andythenorth> oops swearing in the channel :(
15:45:06 <andythenorth> bad andythenorth
15:45:08 <Wolf01> Everything at sea level
15:45:49 <Wolf01> Pfff, you can't even beat V swearing :P
15:47:04 <Samu> it would kind of make the "build lock" obsolet
15:47:39 <Wolf01> Nah, you always need to build locks in other places
15:47:54 <Samu> just build canal on slope, and it auto-places lock
15:48:00 <andythenorth> waste of 3 tiles
15:48:35 <andythenorth> ho ho, nml *does* ship with example nml files :)
15:49:59 <Samu> gonna toy with the idea of auto-lock when building canal on inclinedslope
15:54:17 <Wolf01> frosch123, how do I set the _thd.selend from the current tile and the _terraform_size?
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16:26:48 <andythenorth> I think a list entry is either not initialised, or being given the wrong length as a count somewhere
16:28:36 <andythenorth> properties[0x12] doesn’t seem to exist
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16:31:04 <andythenorth> looks like l154 in action0properties.py should be properties = 0x13 * [None]
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16:31:35 * andythenorth smells a mess in this
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16:47:53 <andythenorth> frosch123: apparently I’ve compiled a roadtypes grf
16:48:11 <andythenorth> is there any sane way I can inspect it?
16:59:31 <andythenorth> well that worked
17:00:44 <andythenorth> loading the grf in ottd triggers a nice assert though
17:02:33 <Alberth> hmm, shouldn't it just ignore unknown sprite numbers?
17:13:40 <andythenorth> from the nfo, it appears to have defined _something_ correctly
17:13:51 <andythenorth> it’s basically a clone of most of newgrf railtypes
17:14:03 <andythenorth> with the feature number set to 12
17:14:53 <andythenorth> with the grf loaded, openttd now asserts with the following message
17:14:54 <andythenorth> Message: Assertion failed at line 133 of /source/openttd/src/newgrf.cpp: feature < GSF_END
17:15:03 <andythenorth> which is promising, and perhaps a place to start? o_O
17:15:52 <Wolf01> I might need some new terraform icons... at least 5
17:17:33 <andythenorth> is there one needed for ‘random’ o_O
17:17:44 <andythenorth> or ‘restore rivers’ ? o_O
17:18:29 <Wolf01> Nah, but a "select start and end point for river" might be useful
17:18:46 <Wolf01> Even for valleys/mountains
17:20:25 <andythenorth> ‘carve a river valley'
17:24:09 <Wolf01> Embanked rivers and such
17:24:52 <Wolf01> Specially the kamnet ones
17:25:16 <Wolf01> Also, now with just 5 tools the editor is finally usable
17:29:40 <andythenorth> is this scenario only, or also in game?
17:30:04 <Wolf01> Editor only, too powerfull to be used in game
17:30:56 <Wolf01> Added the patch to the post, if you want to try it
17:31:44 <Wolf01> Now I must prepare and go out :P
17:35:32 <Wolf01> I left out almost all the safety checks, I just put on to not crash at the first action :P
17:35:45 <Wolf01> But I don't know how it will work with unmovables
17:35:58 <Wolf01> Maybe it destroys everything
17:37:27 <andythenorth> 'WID_ETT_PAINT_LOWER_LAND'; did you mean 'WID_ETT_LOWER_LAND'?
17:37:38 <andythenorth> got a few errors like that, make then bails out
17:37:57 * andythenorth might be missing some symbols or something
17:40:29 * andythenorth tries make clean
17:40:50 <Alberth> make mrproper to get back at unconfigured state
17:41:24 <Samu> TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis(GetInclinedSlopeDirection(slope)))));
17:41:43 <Wolf01> Tortoise generates corrupted patches
17:43:05 <goodger> moving north is generally a good idea unless you live in the southern hemisphere
17:43:47 * andythenorth does not live in the north
17:43:49 <Samu> get inclined slope direction gives me the direction that goes up
17:44:27 <Samu> if that direction could be southwards or northwards, but i only want to go north
17:44:28 <Alberth> given that you move north, you just know what to add to x & y
17:44:52 <Samu> that direction could be southwards or northwards, but i only want to go north
17:45:06 <Alberth> AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis( ... )) is of course just bollocks
17:45:31 <Samu> diagdirtoaxis returns the axis of that slope
17:45:46 <Samu> axis to diagdir always returns me the southern direction
17:45:59 <Samu> reversediagdir brings me the northern direction
17:46:49 <Alberth> why not just test the diagdir, and add the right x&y ?
17:48:31 <Samu> i'm adding it to a ClearedObjectArea thing
17:48:36 <Samu> coa->area = TileArea(TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis(GetInclinedSlopeDirection(slope))))), axis == AXIS_X ? 3 : 1, axis == AXIS_Y ? 3 : 1);
17:49:32 <Wolf01> andythenorth, fixed the patch should work now
17:49:34 <Samu> tile is the inclined slope, slope is inclined
17:54:15 <Samu> i'm trying to auto-lock when placing canals
17:54:34 <Samu> but drag & drop is messing me up
17:56:04 <Samu> drag building canals that go over an inclined sloep, will build a lock automatically
17:56:52 <Samu> it's jut that locks are FAT buildings and the next tile that it is gonna be placing a canal will be giving me trouble
17:58:34 <andythenorth> Wolf01: compiling again
18:02:32 <andythenorth> well it’s running now
18:03:25 <andythenorth> yeah, you need to listen to key repeat at a lower rate :)
18:04:36 <Wolf01> I think I need to listen to "pt.x mod TILE_SIZE" = 0
18:04:57 <Wolf01> Now it triggers even if you move the pointer by 1 pixel
18:05:15 <Wolf01> But I'm not sure if that will work
18:08:54 <Alberth> compute the tile, if it's the same as last time, ignore
18:09:29 <Wolf01> You can raise even a 8x8
18:10:01 <Alberth> testing at exactly 0 sounds very fragile
18:11:54 <Samu> i'm still trying to learn how to use ClearedTileArea correctly
18:14:41 * andythenorth wonders if Road Hog will ever get other rosters :P
18:15:26 <Alberth> any point in making other collections of trucks?
18:21:13 <andythenorth> gameplay, not sure
18:21:43 <andythenorth> first roster is quite brit-ish
18:21:51 <andythenorth> but the trams are from all over the world, or invented
18:24:25 <andythenorth> Alberth: suggest a grfid for Unsinkable Sam? o_O
18:26:40 <Alberth> USS sounds nice, points towards submarines :)
18:32:11 <andythenorth> considered that :)
18:32:19 <andythenorth> Unsinkable Sam is Not FISH
18:32:29 <andythenorth> hardly recursive :P
18:33:26 <Alberth> doesn't need to be recursive, as it never sinks :)
18:34:21 * andythenorth wants to make ships
18:34:32 <andythenorth> I have paid my NotRoadTypes debts for today
18:36:17 <Wolf01> Right, tomorrow we can start doing the grf code
18:36:28 <andythenorth> assuming the grf isn’t nonsense :P
18:36:48 <Wolf01> What did you put in it?
18:36:58 <Wolf01> Just to know what should I expect
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18:38:58 <andythenorth> single roadtype, with label “ROAD”
18:39:07 <andythenorth> and some railtype sprites
18:39:43 <andythenorth> format follows railtypes exactly right now
18:40:23 <Wolf01> I think the outcome should be "2 roadtypes and 1 railtype (if tram grf loaded)", right?
18:40:58 <andythenorth> not from the current test grf :)
18:41:04 <andythenorth> but that can be extended
18:41:53 <andythenorth> also I can’t seem to persuade nml to use the roadtypetable functions, so there is some nml work to do there :P
18:42:04 <andythenorth> ‘unreachable’ :P
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18:43:03 <Wolf01> I had to move a variable declared in the middle of the code because it seem that in c++ functions can't look below themselves, maybe it's the same problem?
18:43:57 <andythenorth> nah, in this case I think it’s that I need to make an explicit call to some functions in parser.py, but I can’t find where
18:52:49 <peter1138> "functions can't look" ... k
18:53:04 <peter1138> (you can't use stuff if it isn't declared yet)
18:53:28 <andythenorth> the functions are declared, but nothing calls them afaict
18:53:43 <andythenorth> and I can’t figure out what to cargo cult from railtypes to get them called
18:54:52 <Wolf01> Nah, peter1138 is right, I'm too used to higher level languages where doesn't matter if you declare a variable after or before a function ;)
18:56:01 <andythenorth> specifically ‘roadtypetable_list’ and some others are not reachable
18:56:05 <andythenorth> nice line number :P
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19:06:48 <andythenorth> any way to check if a grfid is known 55535331?
19:06:58 <andythenorth> or is in someone’s ‘reserved’ range?
19:11:03 <frosch123> the "1" is stupid :p
19:11:43 <frosch123> "USRA" (US Roads Addon) is the nearest
19:14:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: propose a not-1 alternative? o_O
19:15:16 <frosch123> do you plan to do a second one? :p
19:15:55 <frosch123> use "3", noone does 3 versions of the same grf
19:16:08 <frosch123> "3" is probably unique for all leading chars :p
19:17:15 <andythenorth> it’s embarassing that I have to use this to convert from ascii :P
19:21:53 <Alberth> print([chr(x) for x in "USRA"]) :)
19:22:10 <frosch123> ah, "3" is used by those one-grf-per-vehicle guys
19:23:18 <glx> printf("%08X", 'USRA'); should work too
19:31:09 <Alberth> just use "USRA" in the grfid :)
19:36:11 <Samu> grrr stupid tile area loop doesn't work like i think
19:37:36 <Samu> tile area, just adds the tiles
19:37:55 <Samu> the loop doesn't care for which directions they were added
19:38:46 <Samu> it adds them at the opposite direction of how I dragged some times
19:39:48 <Samu> north to south - everything is fine
19:40:16 <Samu> so i see now why that swap existed on the bridge command
19:45:26 <Samu> i dragged from tiles 8893 to 8891, tile area loop begins at 8891, hmmm must think
19:50:21 <Samu> okay, so this means i'm always building towards the south diag direction
19:51:56 <Samu> coa->first_tile = TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(axis)));
19:53:54 <Samu> so this means i don't need diagdir for anything
19:54:51 <Samu> dayum, auto locks while building canals, looks pretty
19:56:02 <Samu> this might actually be the best idea yet, Wolf01
19:56:23 <Samu> makes building canal lines so much easier
19:57:15 <Samu> feels like building a straight road over all types of terrain
19:57:54 <Samu> problem might be that canals don't have foundations
19:58:33 <Samu> and locks are still fat buildings, it may not go over all slopes
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20:32:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: so I can’t use 3? o_O
20:34:37 <Alberth> copper ore refinery looks great andy
20:41:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: it’s fun eh? :)
20:42:32 <Alberth> playing in a hot country with maglev trains :)
20:42:44 <andythenorth> need to do a copper mine
20:42:50 <andythenorth> default sprites are a bit boring
20:43:02 <Alberth> I agree on that, compared to your sprites
20:44:32 <andythenorth> let me know if you get inspired for a Busier Bee :P
20:44:34 <andythenorth> with more goal types
20:49:53 <Alberth> although a combination of pax and industry could be nice
20:50:06 <andythenorth> found an arbitrary industry and demand service is the one I would like to add
20:50:14 <andythenorth> after a while I always end up funding industry
20:51:53 <Alberth> :o I almost never do that
20:52:49 <Alberth> well, failure to find a supplier for an industry could work :)
20:53:17 <Alberth> although maybe it would be too simple to let the player decide where to put it
20:54:15 <andythenorth> I originally thought it might be an actual goal, to have player fund the industry directly
20:54:21 <andythenorth> but now I think BB should do it
20:54:34 <andythenorth> can it provide a dialog, with an option: fund yes/no
20:55:23 * andythenorth considers letting playing invest €xxx in industry development
20:55:40 <andythenorth> but the GS chooses what and where [randomly or by some rules]
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22:00:39 <andythenorth> sea vs. river ships is a crap distinction
22:00:58 <Wolf01> You make all river ships?
22:03:10 <andythenorth> all same speed ships
22:03:19 <andythenorth> no pissing around with slower / faster on river / sea
22:03:36 <andythenorth> Wolf01: my current game needs a cogwheel tramway
22:03:44 <andythenorth> 16 tile mountain or so :P
22:04:45 <Wolf01> Indeed, you need to introduce draught for ships, you can have slow ships on sea too
22:05:54 <Wolf01> My current game needs half and double slopes
22:07:29 <Wolf01> And proper bridges/tunnels... maybe I want locomotion
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