IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-07-02
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00:05:55 <NGC3982> How do i upgrade openttd 1.6.0 to 1.6.1 without libicu52?
00:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> use a statically compiled build, or compile yourself.
00:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> s/compiled/linked/
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00:57:32 <NGC3982> "There should now be an OpenTTD executable in the bin subdirectory. To install the OpenTTD binary to a directory included in your PATH variable, so it can be run as only openttd<code>, do a <code>make install as root/using sudo."
00:57:38 <NGC3982> I don't understand what that means
00:58:08 <NGC3982> What PATH variable, and is the actual code "sudo openttd<code>, do a <code>make install"?
01:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> PATH is where your OS looks for executable files
01:01:53 <Eddi|zuHause> like /usr/local/bin or ~/bin and stuff
01:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> type "echo $PATH"
01:02:10 <NGC3982> Is that pathway the variable?
01:02:25 <NGC3982> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:/snap/bin
01:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so, put the executable in one of those
01:03:01 <NGC3982> move it from the bin folder?
01:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you can skip this if you're comfortable writing path/to/openttd every time you want to play
01:04:27 <NGC3982> I just did ./configure without any errors
01:04:33 <NGC3982> Is make install next?
01:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> no, after configure you do "make"
01:08:39 * NGC3982 is dumb and installed the wrong version.
01:15:06 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: How do i do this with 1.6.1?
01:15:11 <NGC3982> This installed a r*** version.
01:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> how did you get the source code?
01:15:39 <NGC3982> as per readme: svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk openttd
01:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you need to switch to "svn switch svn://svn.openttd.org/releases/1.6.1"
01:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that
01:16:55 <NGC3982> Is there a site explaining the svn urls?
01:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you can "svn ls svn://svn.openttd.org"
01:35:43 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Thanks.
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08:34:54 * andythenorth making graphics processors
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08:50:19 <Alberth> I am reading about opengl processing, does that count too? :)
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10:05:27 <Wolf01> I don't know if is better to move to TANE or stay with the TS12
10:06:19 <Alberth> play a train game you already have? :p
10:06:53 <Alberth> unless you collect games too, of course
10:07:54 <Wolf01> but it doesn't have atmospheric effects
10:08:22 <Alberth> it's like collecting documents, or images, or records. There is an infinite supply of them
10:08:45 <Alberth> or lego, for that matter :)
10:09:04 <Alberth> no point in trying to collect them all
10:13:57 <Wolf01> meh, ok, I'll wait for another discount
10:25:05 <Wolf01> but now, time to play factorio
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10:38:15 <Wolf01> the flame turret saved my boundaries, it's really good... too bad I have to build a pipe all around along with the ammo belt for gun turrets :P
10:49:14 <V453000> I like it a lot, especially the logistic difference/problem it adds
10:49:44 <V453000> while being strong as fuck vs. masses of enemies, it can't really hold them off alone ... unless you build walls in a way that the turret minimum range isn't a problem
10:49:59 <V453000> still, accompanying them with other turret types is always a good idea
10:53:04 <Wolf01> and trains are fantastic now
10:54:37 <Wolf01> I already started to make the locomotives the colour of the cargo they have, black for coal, red for copper, blue-ish for iron...
10:55:01 <V453000> I think that's pretty common
10:55:04 <Wolf01> so I can recognize which one passes over me
10:55:05 <V453000> I do exactly the same :P
10:58:03 <Wolf01> the only thing I don't like much is "diesel locomotive", you can run it with anything but diesel XD
11:05:53 <V453000> there was many talks about renaming it but idk why it never happened
11:06:08 <V453000> I'll open a card and see if someone reacts to it
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11:06:29 <Wolf01> I'm expecting electric trains and catenary for 0.14 :D
11:07:20 <Wolf01> so no more refueling at stations and dead trains everywhere when a biter chews a pole around the map
11:07:24 <V453000> I wouldn't expect that
11:07:37 <V453000> but who knows what kovarex comes with in a month
11:07:46 <V453000> I might have the fluid wagon graphics done by then :P
11:08:44 <Wolf01> oh, I think I found a bug... the grenade damage upgrade icon is the same as the cluster grenade
11:13:21 <V453000> it's kovarex graphics
11:18:17 <Wolf01> too bad I can't use flame turrets on outposta
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11:29:41 <Wolf01> the problem is to get there the fuel
11:30:08 <Wolf01> mmmh, shit, big spitters
11:33:03 <V453000> even long distance pipes kind of work
11:33:23 <V453000> ofc not ideal final solution, but if you need temporary boost, ...
11:33:38 <Wolf01> I use light oil for flamers
11:33:51 <Wolf01> I always have too much of it
11:34:25 <Wolf01> tbh, the fluid handling should allow to barrel any kind of fuel, and not just oil
11:36:58 <V453000> I see it as a very nice complication in logistics
11:37:04 <V453000> you can use crude oil, which can be barreled
11:37:41 <V453000> or you can refine the crude oil on site to get better efficiency, convert heavy oil to more light oil / solid fuel, and petroleum gas into plastic/sulfur, which can be delivered back to main base/circuit production again
11:37:48 <V453000> everything definitely has solutions
11:37:59 <V453000> but I do see that barrel all / fluid wagon for all is convenient
11:38:05 <V453000> I personally like it the way it is now
11:38:23 <V453000> with the fluid wagon it will just become trivial
11:39:43 <Wolf01> but you can use a belt to cross a factory where you can't use a train
11:40:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: lists or tuples when defining a sequences that is a constant?
11:40:50 <andythenorth> silly question, but have to choose one or the other :P
11:41:34 <andythenorth> existing code uses lists, looks a bit wrong
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11:56:04 <andythenorth> [] is neater than () :P
12:01:35 <Wolf01> lol, spitters even attacked a fish
12:19:15 <Samu> I am still running ship ai tests, it's just that they take too much time
12:24:41 <Wormnest> Samu that´s because you set your vehicle limits too high when it´s known that ships really slow things down
12:26:01 <Samu> main problem is pathfinder dealing with blocked ships, or ships lost
12:26:25 <Samu> if ships aren't lost, it is actually running good
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12:30:44 <Wormnest> I think I almost got nocab´s ship handling fixed
12:43:02 <Samu> 1080p is being relegated to "entry level" :(
12:49:50 <Wolf01> I don't know why one does need more than 1080p just to play ottd, minecraft and factorio
12:53:50 <andythenorth> what is 1080p? :P
13:07:29 <Samu> rx 480 launch was a disgrace :(
13:11:07 <Wolf01> yes, I read about burned pci slots
13:11:35 <Wolf01> if there's a 150W limit, maybe is there for a reason
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13:21:01 <Samu> asus boards are affected the most
13:21:33 <andythenorth> indirection and delegation
13:21:42 <Wolf01> also a lot of MSI are affected
13:21:43 <andythenorth> graphics processor runs separate to nml compile
13:21:53 <andythenorth> so each cannot know too much about the other
13:21:57 <Samu> ppl still think asus is good
13:22:00 <andythenorth> but they have to pass information :P
13:23:24 <Samu> the technology behind stopping fans
13:24:42 <Samu> why did everyone have to copy asus
13:25:02 <Samu> it's good on paper, it's bad in the long run
13:26:03 <Samu> how does it decide when to stop the fans?
13:26:16 <Samu> gpu chip only? what about the other components
13:26:26 <Wolf01> I have an asus mobo and it had no problem for 9 years
13:26:30 <Samu> they usually heat more than the gpu
13:26:57 <Wolf01> also an asus-nvidia graphic card
13:27:24 <Wolf01> I think that if you don't mix too many brands everything works fine
13:30:24 <Samu> underclocking rx 480 fixes the issue
13:30:31 <Samu> oh well... amd engineers
13:30:52 <V453000> isn't the rx 480 already shit without any underclocking?
13:31:23 <Samu> in sum, the reference design is bad
13:31:44 <Samu> it spikes too often past that 75w limitation
13:32:16 <V453000> well it's not like gtx 1080 reference card doesn't thermal throttle
13:32:45 <V453000> reference cards are wtf
13:33:02 <Samu> the 8 GB vram is especially spiky
13:35:39 <Samu> zen is amd's last chance
13:38:24 <Samu> rip PC gaming if zen also fails
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13:39:25 <Samu> microsoft must be proud of this failure
13:39:35 <Samu> more consolization of windows 10
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14:35:58 <andythenorth> class attributes
14:36:07 <andythenorth> Alberth: ^ do I have to pay a fine? :o
14:36:56 <Alberth> if they're constant, nah :)
14:37:09 <andythenorth> they’re constant :)
14:37:24 <andythenorth> I have a weird delegation of control back and forth between consist class and vehicle class :P
14:37:29 <andythenorth> it’s ugly but eh
14:37:31 <Alberth> just a bit non-pythonic
15:02:13 <Wolf01> meh, 32x axle heavily bent :|
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15:08:38 <mrslave> Hello there, i would like to ask for advice regarding starting to develop/bugfix/etc openttd if possible. :)
15:16:26 <andythenorth> Wolf01: 32x axles are mostly bent no?
15:16:54 * andythenorth wonders if they can be straightened
15:17:07 <Wolf01> maybe if I leave it under the sun in a flat surface
15:19:30 <andythenorth> heat, hang it vertically in the freezer with a weight attached
15:20:25 <Wolf01> already asked for a replacement, which will come broken for sure
15:21:25 <Wolf01> tlg knows about long axles problems and they won't do anything, because a little straight cardboard box to keep axles safe costs too much :|
15:24:07 <Wolf01> so, now I have two bent 32x axles... the other one just slightly bent, but it's enough to make a lot of friction
15:26:00 <Wolf01> and I can't even use the pieces, because they might ask for replacement of the entire box like when the box is damaged
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15:54:01 * andythenorth refactored the Road Hog compile
15:54:07 <andythenorth> no class attributes
15:54:12 <andythenorth> binned a load of other stuff as well
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15:54:42 <andythenorth> ‘think of the time saved’ :P
16:01:51 <andythenorth> wonder how many bugs I added
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16:52:16 <supermop__> they make a 32 bump long axel>
16:56:11 <Alberth> only non-straight ones, apparently
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17:10:14 <skrzyp> there's a talk about "security" in NetBSD at pkgsrccon :D
17:12:37 <Alberth> all this open stuff, so confusing :)
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17:19:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the keys are like right next to each other
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18:06:41 * andythenorth terrifying automation
18:14:51 <Alberth> now only teach it to draw pixels :)
18:20:46 <andythenorth> teaching it to draw cargo :P
18:21:08 <andythenorth> amount of declarative code for each vehicle is reducing a lot
18:21:15 <andythenorth> flexibility of set design also decreasing :D
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18:46:53 <Alberth> as long as you don't need it :)
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19:45:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27610 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2016-07-02 19:45:35 +0200 )
19:45:42 <DorpsGek> korean: 1 change by telk5093
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20:09:12 <andythenorth> set does not return reliably :P
20:09:22 <andythenorth> that’s useful to know
20:11:30 <Alberth> also holds for dictionaries
20:12:18 <Alberth> if you have a sort order, that would work :)
20:12:37 <andythenorth> I have a list, which I’m getting the set from?
20:13:01 <Alberth> list has known order of retrieval :)
20:14:15 <Alberth> in Java, we switched to having a stable set/dict at work
20:14:28 <Alberth> ie it keeps insertion order
20:14:57 <Alberth> avoids a lot of nasty surprises :)
20:15:24 <andythenorth> I’ll figure out how to keep the list order, but remove duplicates :P
20:15:38 <Alberth> have a set or dict next to it
20:16:24 <andythenorth> there is some orderedset thing
20:16:28 <andythenorth> but I’ll ignore that
20:16:41 <Alberth> yeah, they do it the other way around
20:16:51 <Alberth> a set with a list next to it
20:17:25 <Alberth> it does make sense to wrap it in a class so you can forget about it :p
20:32:42 <andythenorth> wheel loader best
20:43:44 <Wolf01> I need at least 2 more c-models :|
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22:09:23 <drac_boy> any of you got bookmarks for historic train photos around europe? (beside railfaneurope and railpicture anyway..)
22:09:27 <drac_boy> just curious is all :)
22:27:33 <drac_boy> mm a few interesting non-uk photos there thanks
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22:31:17 * drac_boy also earlier this morning managed to find the first online photo of the old days re cows being loaded onto 2-axle vans on the RhB railway :p
22:50:26 <Supercheese> I like how Hearts of Iron 4 has an achievement titled "Transport Tycoon" :)
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