IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-04-30
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00:00:19 <sim-al2> Of course, the modern electircs have center walkways, since they have so much equipment
00:03:23 <drac_boy> that looks like a dual unit russia-style to me :)
00:04:07 <sim-al2> Yeah, they seem to like those. The high power electrics for coal haulage are also built that way
00:04:24 <sim-al2> However, most of the locomotives are still single units
00:05:45 <drac_boy> hm too bad the catalogue doesn't seem to list any books for ivatt steam locomotives (I wouldn't had mind thinking about ordering one)
00:07:57 <Samu> split IsValidAiID from IsDead
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00:09:12 <drac_boy> ah.. bluebell railway for £5 clearance .. too bad its not something I would want to read much
00:11:16 <drac_boy> btw sim-a12 about 'single units' .. did you know that one of the green russia electric locomotive (I'll have to look it up later re which one) actually was semi-permanently coupled together together with the unused cab being boarded up and corridors added
00:11:24 <drac_boy> only a few examples were done
00:11:46 <drac_boy> kinda a bit unusual move but I guess if they often needed the extra power .. this seem to make sense
00:12:01 <sim-al2> Yeah, I guess they didn't want to change the body work
00:12:49 <drac_boy> well it was only a few of them too...so probably not worth the cost of new units ;)
00:12:54 <sim-al2> I think they actually did that on serveral types. I remember the M62 having it more often, there were even a few 4 packs
00:13:22 <drac_boy> reminds me of old emd geeps having their doors sealed and some windows boarded up to basically turn them into slave units
00:13:30 <sim-al2> I assume the assembly line just cranked them, and the windows were plated over afterwards
00:13:55 <Samu> arf.... it's too difficult to split this function
00:17:48 <sim-al2> Oh, the North Koreans made some interesting mods to a few M62s
00:18:36 <sim-al2> And Azerbaijan too, apparently
00:18:54 <drac_boy> heh...good name for a book "disconnected! broken links in britian's rail policy" .. it doesn't mention so but I suspect its mainly about the breech axe era too :)
00:19:19 <drac_boy> (I think the gov probably somewhat forgot that small lines actually feeds the big heavy lines)
00:20:22 <drac_boy> anyway sim..sorry about this but have to afk to grill some supper so have fun till another time ok? :)
00:46:31 <Samu> assert (IsStarted(slot));
00:50:22 <Samu> static inline bool or static bool?
01:04:23 <Wolf01> at least try to understand what are you asking
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01:15:24 <Samu> i can't do this split at least now
01:16:15 <Samu> well, i could, but i'm tired, and the function already works
01:16:52 <Samu> it would also mean, wherever it would be used, splitting it into 2 functions would only increase the size of those lines
01:17:12 <Samu> and those lines are already quite sized
01:18:04 <Wolf01> just not saying that a function which just returns the result of another function is useless
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03:27:00 <drac_boy> hm think just going to go to bed
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05:27:21 <Flygon> terrain.party website won't let me cover the entirety of New Zealand
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10:28:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27552 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-04-30 10:28:40 +0200 )
10:28:49 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Mexican Spanish (Absay)
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11:48:01 <Samu> there is an issue related with the translation of strings
11:48:22 <Samu> makes it harder for translations
11:48:41 <Samu> I have to give an example, it's not easy to explain
11:49:20 <Samu> The tittle for the AI/Game Script window
11:50:26 <Samu> this tittle is either "Available AIs" or "Available Game Scripts"
11:50:38 <Samu> but the way the title is constructed
11:50:53 <Samu> makes it confusing for translators
11:52:07 <Samu> "Available {STRING}", then 2 other strings that completes it: "AIs" or "Game Scripts"
11:52:54 <Samu> Wouldn't it be better to have 2 full strings?
11:55:23 <Samu> When this is translated to Portuguese, the translator didn't take into account how this is constructed, and translated it separately. When the 2 strings merge, the reading makes no sense
11:59:15 <Samu> "Available {STRING}" = "Disponível {STRING}"
12:00:01 <Samu> "AIs" = "IAs" / "Game Scripts" = "Scripts de Jogo"
12:00:42 <Samu> "Disponível IAs" - makes little sense
12:00:54 <Samu> "Disponível Scripts de Jogo" - makes little sense
12:01:39 <Samu> it should have been "IAs disponíveis" and "Scripts the Jogo disponíveis"
12:04:51 <Samu> just checked brazillian portuguese, it's also making little sense
12:05:21 <Samu> same kind of problem, due to how the title is constructed
12:06:45 <Samu> "Disponíveis Scripts do Jogo" - makes slightly more sense than "Disponível Scripts de Jogo", but it's still wrong
12:09:20 <Samu> the word disponíveis must be at the end of the title, the string would have to be constructed like "{STRING} Available" for the translator
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12:46:23 <Samu> uhmm, what are these errors Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Warning STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION: Param idx #0 '<empty>' doesn't match with template command 'STRING' (warning) langs D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\lang\arabic_egypt.txt 3471
12:46:38 <Samu> for every language but english
12:47:47 <Samu> STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION :{WHITE}AI/Game Script {STRING}
12:48:51 <Samu> I am changing "AI/Game Script Configuration" to "AI/Game Script {STRING}" with 2 more strings to complete that one, "Configuration" and "Settings"
12:49:30 <Samu> how would I fix this for the other languages?
13:05:38 <Samu> the world should have just 1 language, things would be so much easier
13:10:30 <frosch123> learn esperanto then
13:10:59 <Samu> why are the other languages complaining?
13:12:33 <Ketsuban> Esperanto is a terrible candidate for a world language. Lojban is better, but has the disadvantage of being spoken only by the kind of people who'd learn Lojban.
13:12:43 <Flygon> Everyone should learn Wiradjuri
13:13:09 <Flygon> Everyone should learn Pitjantjatjara
13:13:15 <Samu> i edited english.txt, isn't this the master language?
13:13:18 <Flygon> It has a perfectly consistant spelling system!
13:13:31 <Samu> the others are getting errors
13:15:07 <Samu> Warning STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION: Param idx #0 '<empty>' doesn't match with template command 'STRING' (warning) langs
13:17:55 <Samu> how do i fix the other languages without editing them 1 by 1
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13:29:39 <Samu> they are missing the {STRING} part
13:33:23 <Samu> here's what I've done to english
13:33:50 <Samu> the other languages (I picked english_US), does that
13:34:11 <Samu> it complains about the {STRING} that I added
13:34:14 <Wolf01> bah, I've done all wrong, working with async changes how all the code works, the UI shouldn't await the entire list, the UI should pass the list to the function which fills it with time and the UI should await the function... now it might be fun to rewrite all the code
13:35:03 <Wolf01> samu, run the fucking strgen
13:40:35 <frosch123> just run "sed -i '/STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION/ D' src/lang/*.txt"
13:40:57 <frosch123> if that command does not exist on your system, then get a better one
13:41:16 <Wolf01> mmmh, how the fuck do I order items without having all the items?
13:43:31 <Wolf01> I could run parallel tasks to get all the items in less time, but still I have to wait for everything
13:45:11 <Wolf01> I don't know what could happen with items popping out in the middle of the list, the UI might explode
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14:18:44 <Wolf01> it's nice how a for explodes inside an async function
14:20:50 <Wolf01> for (int i = 0; i < n; i++) -> n = 5, I find i = 5 (out of range exception)
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14:47:38 * Wolf01 must to something else
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15:18:44 <Leanden_> Sprite Offsets doing my head in
15:19:32 <Leanden_> the sprite aligner numbers don't tie up at all with the NML offset figures
15:19:47 <Leanden_> can someone help me?
15:20:51 <Leanden_> Even the bounding blocks arent really useful as the default openttd wagons dont sit properly inside their bounding boxes
15:23:13 <V453000> they are values for x4 zoom
15:24:15 <Leanden_> so move by the relevant number in the sprite aligner and divide the absolute offset by 4 to get the actual result?
15:25:08 <Leanden_> (i.e. the Absolute Offset/4 is what i should put into the NML code?)
15:25:11 <V453000> the absolute offset is quite pointless I think
15:25:19 <V453000> you need to worry about the relative one
15:25:26 <V453000> and then substract/add that from your code
15:25:42 <V453000> that's what I always did
15:25:43 <Leanden_> ok so relative/4 added to whatever my NML says?
15:26:04 <V453000> I am not sure if the current thing actually gives proper absolute values, but the relative always does
15:26:19 <Leanden_> Im trying to code this BRTrains set
15:26:35 <Leanden_> but had to go right back to the beginning because i was writing without testing and its all messed up lol
15:27:18 <Leanden_> is there an NML snippet which disables all default trains and wagons?
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15:33:00 <drac_boy> got an interesting 'problem' here .. one book is 128 pages about crocodiles in general (sbb/db/etc) while another book is 110 pages that goes quite deep into just the swiss crocodile alone and its quite more expensive
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15:50:47 <drac_boy> hi wolf01 .. want me bore you? :P
15:53:40 <Wolf01> I'm already bored, building-new-outpost-bored
15:54:11 * drac_boy pokes wolf01 with a 850mm diameter driver axle then
15:55:39 <andythenorth> Lego isn’t usually dimensioned in mm
15:55:51 <andythenorth> and maybe string
15:55:55 <andythenorth> the standard unit is studs
15:56:31 <Wolf01> meh... wrong place for accumulators, there should be a station instead
15:57:01 * drac_boy throws something 1 stud and 10 studs long at andy :)
15:58:04 <Wolf01> wrong place for forest, there should be accumulators farm instead
16:00:00 <Islacrusez> so what's ottd development like these days; any significant changes in the past few years?
16:00:13 * Islacrusez is out of the loop
16:00:23 <Wolf01> ottd development these days resembles more factorio playing
16:01:14 <Islacrusez> don't blame you, that game is perfect on so many levels
16:07:01 <Samu> i installed sed, already ruined everything
16:07:25 * drac_boy is going stick to ttdxp+simutrans for now partially due to installers
16:07:47 <Samu> i broke the language files
16:10:44 <planetmaker> Samu, if your fixing what you broke with sed is much more difficult than running something like "hg revert src/lang/*" then you should consider to change how you work on the files :)
16:11:44 <Wolf01> btw, I should prepare myself, AFOL dinner this evening ;)
16:12:33 <Samu> i reverted but it is also reverting some vcxproj files for lang?
16:13:12 <Samu> something about spanish_MX.lng
16:14:57 <Leanden_> Well this is a nice milestone
16:15:01 <Samu> ... that's it... deleting entire trunk
16:15:06 <Leanden_> I have just successfully coded my first ever train in NML :D
16:15:14 <Leanden_> and its properly aligned :)
16:16:34 <Samu> re-downloading entire trunk again
16:17:05 <Samu> while getting rid of my code as well, bah... dont care, as long as it fixes it
16:19:46 <andythenorth> iz forums today?
16:21:06 <Alberth> people stopped sleeping in tents on a slope, in australia, mostly
16:21:13 <Samu> no longer complaining about spanish_MX
16:21:26 <andythenorth> maybe I should play the game
16:22:06 <Alberth> I tried that yesterday with mostly vanilla, but tropical is too boring
16:22:39 <andythenorth> the economy, the vehicles, or the landscape?
16:23:00 <Alberth> the climate, in particular the industry chains
16:23:10 <Alberth> perhaps I should concentrate on pax there
16:23:18 <drac_boy> going off for now here
16:23:26 <Alberth> all these towns needing food & water
16:24:16 <Samu> oh, so it seems I was working with an old lang version without spanish_MX
16:24:26 <Samu> wasn't this the language just added?
16:25:38 <andythenorth> I never liked micro-managing the lumber mill :)
16:26:12 <Samu> reverting now reverts correctly
16:26:57 <Alberth> it probably reverted correctly before too, except in a way you didn't expect?
16:28:34 <frosch123> Leanden_: V453000: the absolute values in the sprite aligner are affected by the transparency-cropping when compiling the nml file. that is, if your sprites have transparency along some border, the absolue offsets will differ
16:32:05 <Samu> it was creating a patch and the patch was adding changes to many lang vcx files
16:32:22 <Samu> and i remember not touching that
16:32:46 <Samu> then i wanted to revert, and it was touching them again
16:33:42 <Samu> at least now the trunk is 100% equal
16:33:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27553 /trunk/projects (6 files) (2016-04-30 16:33:36 +0200 )
16:33:46 <DorpsGek> -Update: Project files
16:35:32 <V453000> frosch123: they do, pretty much always :D
16:38:06 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, that's pretty awesome
16:43:19 * andythenorth doesn’t get excited by that kind of lego build :)
16:44:11 <Leanden> can someone help me quickly
16:44:21 <Leanden> ive managed to code a refit for a train in my BRTrains set
16:44:40 <andythenorth> what kind of refit? :)
16:44:41 <Leanden> but the artist has cleverly used 2CC colours, how can i disable the 2CC recolouring?
16:45:11 <Islacrusez> andythenorth, do you get excited by the guy who did HMS Hood with SNOTwork lego in minifig scale?
16:45:48 <Leanden> but the capacity is 0
16:45:57 <andythenorth> oh that kind of livery refit
16:45:57 <Leanden> the refit works fine but the livery recolours to CC
16:46:11 <andythenorth> got photoshop or similr?
16:46:15 <Leanden> i assume there is a callback
16:46:17 <andythenorth> I’d just repaint it
16:46:24 <Islacrusez> what sort of lego work does excite you then? xD
16:46:31 <andythenorth> I’d just global replace the 2CC
16:46:37 <andythenorth> you can do it in code, but meh
16:46:50 <Leanden> instead of faffing with changing pixels :P
16:47:40 <Alberth> write a program to faf pixels :p
16:48:33 <andythenorth> you might be able to just ignore it in action 0
16:48:50 <andythenorth> can’t remember, but I think there is a flag to enable 2CC for some vehicle types,
16:48:58 * andythenorth could look in the docs for you
16:49:19 <V453000> ie recolour_sprite { //CCblue 0xC6: 0x92; 0xC7: 0x93; 0xC8: 0x94; 0xC9: 0x95; 0xCA: 0x96; 0xCB: 0x97; 0xCC: 0x98; 0xCD: 0x99; } //CCblue
16:49:28 <andythenorth> V453000: very naughty :P
16:49:35 <andythenorth> recolour sprites are evils
16:50:08 <frosch123> Leanden: remove TRAIN_FLAG_2CC ?
16:51:40 <V453000> not for subrefits I guess
16:54:05 <Leanden> i dont have TRAIN_FLAG_2CC in there hmm
16:54:54 <Leanden> oh that looks good V45
16:54:59 <Leanden> can you do one for Green too? :D
16:56:03 <Leanden> where does that variable/callback go?
16:56:52 <frosch123> you only need "recolour_sprite" for new colours
16:57:29 <Leanden> i just want a line of code to change CC blue to Blue
16:57:32 <Leanden> and CC green to green :P
16:58:01 <frosch123> so, you do not want cc at all?
16:58:09 <frosch123> i have no idea what you want :p
16:58:20 <Leanden> i want to completely disable CC for all my trains :P
16:58:22 <V453000> Leanden: just pu there the right colour numbers :P
16:58:23 <frosch123> you said artist uses 2cc, but you did not enable 2cc
16:58:57 <Leanden> the artist designed the sprite in 2CC, but i want to use the CC as just a normal green
16:59:12 <frosch123> Leanden: ok, then just add "colour_mapping: return PALETTE_CC_FIRST;" to your graphics block
16:59:36 <frosch123> that will disable all cc, 1cc and 2cc
17:07:00 <andythenorth> Leanden: what scale is it roughly? UKRS or UKRS 2?
17:21:07 * andythenorth ponders 1 tile locks some more
17:22:16 <andythenorth> locks can have custom graphics? o_O
17:22:35 <andythenorth> L760 or so in water_cmd.cpp
17:22:56 <andythenorth> in fact all of DrawWaterLock()
17:23:15 <andythenorth> well that’s a pisser :)
17:23:19 <andythenorth> no 1 tile locks then
17:23:26 <andythenorth> ‘newgrf cannot be broken’ :P
17:24:20 * andythenorth reverts everything
17:42:56 <Samu> now i wanna get rid of the vertical scrollbar :|
17:55:21 <Samu> want to remove vertical scrollbar, then enumerate the slots
17:55:35 <Samu> and then... drag and drop
17:55:43 <Samu> which i assume is the most complicated one
18:12:43 <_dp_> hi, can openttd to reverse pathfinding? eg find closest depot from which current station is reachable.
18:14:02 <Samu> just found another bug :(
18:14:17 <Samu> it's also present in 1.6.0
18:15:36 <Samu> click License from an AI, then select another AI and chose Random AI
18:16:07 <Samu> Random AI doesn't have a license
18:17:32 <Samu> also happens for the (none) GS
18:23:47 <Samu> void ChangeAI() - this thing will have to close every possible window that can leak information from the old AI to the new
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18:54:32 <Samu> can crash with readme, license and changelog
19:04:57 <Samu> I guess i could post a patch for flyspray
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20:15:33 <Samu> teach me how to remove a scrollbar
20:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: you can run the pathfinder from each depot
20:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's not very efficient, probably
20:18:52 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, but I hoped there was some better way)
20:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the pathfinder algorithm is not really made for something like "get me the shortest path to station involving a depot"
20:20:02 <Rubidium> make some sort of reverse pathfinder where it interprets signals as being reversed and then find the closest depot?
20:22:17 <Eddi|zuHause> just build your depots so all stations are reachable...
20:22:54 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, that's completely different problem
20:23:13 <_dp_> generally speaking it's not that hard to reverse pathfind in graph
20:23:41 <_dp_> but now that you mentioned signals... this is't exactly a graph I guess
20:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, it's just a directed graph
20:24:27 * andythenorth pissing about trying to draw an irone ore mine
20:24:43 <andythenorth> maybe I should just use the one from V453000
20:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> an ironic ore mine?
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20:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> produces irony and thrives on sarcasm as feedback?
20:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> this must be what V453000 thinks when he makes an industry chain :p
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20:27:49 * V453000 is making new stockyard
20:27:53 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, not quite, it changes as train goes on it
20:28:17 <_dp_> but for what I want I can ignore that, only direction matters
20:28:38 <_dp_> but I guess I'll settle for looping over deport, should work fast enough
20:29:12 <_dp_> don't want to write own pathfinder if there is no reverse already
20:29:23 <V453000> andythenorth: if you can convert it to 8bpp nicely, feel free to use anything from me, but .. :) idk if it would fit, probably not
20:31:57 <andythenorth> avoids me doing it :P
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21:09:37 <Samu> :) just successfully removed vertical scrollbar and maintained clicking
21:10:43 <Samu> this->selected_slot = (CompanyID)this->GetRowFromWidget(pt.y, widget, 0, this->line_height);
21:13:41 <Samu> is it easy to do? drag & drop?
21:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: but a train on it doesn't change the topology of the graph, only the edge weights (except maybe for firstred_twoway_eol)
21:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and the pathfinder has a mode which irgnores train positions
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22:09:55 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, it does change, even without signals. just make a small loop, train can't go through it
22:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
22:10:27 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, or, rather, they can, but only because they can't crash into themselvel
22:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i don't see the relevance
22:11:08 <drac_boy> just curious about it but how often any of you heard of using one single traction motor (sandwiched inbetween or so) to power both adjacent axles with? (kinda like a B'B with only two motors)
22:11:32 <drac_boy> I mean I know some high power locomotives had two motors per axle...but I'm curious about the other way around
22:12:59 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, that's example of train changing topology, it couldn't go there because it has non-zero length
22:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, B'B' was a thing (4 individual motors would be Bo'Bo')
22:13:17 * andythenorth wonders how to represent traction motors in TTD scale
22:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i don't think you understand what i mean with topology
22:13:40 <andythenorth> I imagine the rating for continous tractive effort might be lower
22:14:06 <drac_boy> andy, don't bother. it'll be like 1/10th of a pixel :P
22:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think it matters much stat-wise
22:15:37 <andythenorth> NO IT’S VERY IMPORTANT
22:16:08 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, regardless of what you mean, graph is a well-defined thing; neither pathfinding for trains is same as general graph pathfinding nor track network with signals is a graph, strictly speaking
22:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: but it still IS a graph. it may be a different graph for each individual pathfinder run, but it's still a graph
22:18:14 <drac_boy> graph path...reminds me of Train Dispatcher if you ask me :)
22:24:51 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, you can make some graph, but pathfinding on will not be 100% correct (and it's not in openttd)
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22:29:20 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, for any sensible graph you can do that's probably a fine path, but train can never go there
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22:50:58 <drac_boy> think going for now as usual
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continue to next day ⏵
