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00:45:39  <drac_boy> hi

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01:02:23  <FLHerne> Morning

01:03:34  <drac_boy> hows you?

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01:06:34  <drac_boy> hi super-cheesy-cheese :)

01:06:35  <drac_boy> heh

01:08:13  <Supercheese> Heh indeed

01:08:27  <drac_boy> hows you anyhow? :)

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01:09:56  <Supercheese> more Factorio than OTTD currently

01:10:18  <drac_boy> heh ok

01:10:35  <FLHerne> Alright

01:10:57  <Supercheese> and will soon be more Battlefront than either of those

01:11:05  <drac_boy> <is still adding a little bit (very slowly) to this grf project but otherwise is a bit more busy trying to sort out a renewed model layout

01:11:53  <drac_boy> at least so far I've decided to perhaps go after a bemo rhb railcar .. seem nice for small layout re electric railcar with optional freight wagons :)

01:12:22  <FLHerne> Someone else waiting for that? :-)

01:13:17  <FLHerne> Although I'm worried it'll miss whatever made SWBF II such a fun game before

01:14:00  <drac_boy> btw if you were wondering ... this sort of train is what rhb has and it suits me nicely https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Trains_de_la_Bernina_en_hiver_5.jpg

01:14:20  <drac_boy> short and the fact that even to today (2015+ in fact) swizterland still knows how to run a proper mixed train :P

01:14:30  <Supercheese> yeah, I hope they'll re-add the combat between capital ships, where you have to launch on transports and board the other ship

01:14:36  <Supercheese> that was very fun

01:14:50  <drac_boy> heh ok

01:15:29  <FLHerne> drac_boy: Eep, definitely not a thing you'd see in the UK

01:16:53  <Wolf01> o/

01:17:09  <drac_boy> flherne yeah..as the swiss people like to understand: mixed trains make better use of very light traffic that if forced to separate would have sounded the death of service from inflated costs and lack of traffic

01:17:35  <drac_boy> (for uk I guess you sorta could imagine trying to run a class 66 with only two wagons per every second day)

01:17:50  <FLHerne> ISTR there was a proposal to hang single wagons on the back of DMUs up in Scotland

01:17:51  <drac_boy> not trying to nitpick anyone else here ofc

01:18:25  <FLHerne> They have some very remote routes (i.e. awful roads), and low enough linespeeds that performance wouldn't be awful

01:19:23  <FLHerne> The problem was braking/coupling (passenger stock is mini-buckeye and electric brakes, freight air-braked with buffers or AAR buckeyes)

01:20:17  <FLHerne> You'd have to fit a pile of stuff to the DMUs, or stick translator vans on everything

01:21:09  <drac_boy> btw historic photo if that makes you feel any better? http://www.germansteam.co.uk/1962/K/07-323xx.jpg

01:21:38  <drac_boy> must be a train heading to stub-end station what with re the double brakevan staffing there

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01:23:14  <FLHerne> Passengers in the middle of a train like that would be against the rulebook even in the steam era though

01:23:54  <drac_boy> hmm..maybe unique operation? dunno tbh. I just recall that sometimes some railroads had their own different way of things from others

01:24:26  <drac_boy> like the 9F only being placed on slower (and so usually freight) train but Southern wasn't afraid to let them run quite fast in passenger service (even with 5 heavy driveaxles)

01:24:48  <FLHerne> Especially in a train without through brakes, which that almost certainly is

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01:25:49  <drac_boy> hmm maybe that explains the two brakevans or I dunno then from the sound of what you just said

01:26:22  <drac_boy> how about this with the coach up front? http://www.mdrs.org.uk/localrailways/nas_1411spadeoak.jpg

01:26:43  <FLHerne> Yeah, the thought of 9Fs on express passenger is astonishing O.o

01:26:45  <drac_boy> can't tell if thats an infamous Terrier or rather a different class :p

01:27:02  <FLHerne> No, 14xx

01:27:44  <drac_boy> mm whats a 14xx now?

01:27:49  <drac_boy> mind you I don't know a lot about uk steam

01:27:52  <FLHerne> Terriers are small-wheeled 0-6-0s (is that 0C0 in europeanish?)

01:28:16  <FLHerne> Little 0-4-2T, built by the GWR

01:28:48  <FLHerne> Both they and the autocoaches (that's one) were fitted with a primitive remote-control system

01:29:09  <FLHerne> So you could drive the train from a cab at the far end of the carriages

01:29:33  <FLHerne> Pikka does that nicely in UKRS2, although sadly only with the pannier tank

01:30:08  <drac_boy> ah.. meh to our own but I never understood this very-uk thing about using 0-4-2 and 2-4-0 when they just seem to pretty much have the same body and weight loading as a 0-6-0

01:31:12  <drac_boy> and heh .. I've always liked the idea behind the autocoach .. although hmm I still can't imagine the long slacks in the control rods to run two autocoaches at one end (which was done a few times apparently)

01:31:43  <FLHerne> 0-6-0 did become the standard later on, not really sure why not originally

01:31:55  <Supercheese> they kept the trains short to try top ameliorate that it seems

01:32:00  <Supercheese> try to*

01:33:34  <drac_boy> flherne btw its nothing to do with autocoaches but it does almost seem "similar" tho...this is from germany http://www.marklinfan.net/loco7/et87_01.jpg the power is in middle and the control cabs are at both coach ends

01:33:49  <FLHerne> I think two was the maximum, but you could get four-sets with two at each end

01:34:02  <drac_boy> http://nimga.de/m/efOX4.jpg and sometimes they'll slip a detachable coach fitted with its own cab on as traffic requires too

01:34:07  <FLHerne> At least three has been done in preservation, trying to find pics

01:34:31  <FLHerne> drac_boy: Now that's just an older take on one of those Stadler thingies

01:34:55  <drac_boy> its basically a (2+1)(B+1)(1+2) .. if I recall the UIC system right

01:35:32  <drac_boy> stadler? hm I must not know they did one too

01:35:36  * drac_boy goes to look

01:38:39  <drac_boy> must be me...I think I'll write down to try look for stadler trains tomorrow instead..cheers for the thought tho

01:39:17  <drac_boy> flherne on a side note what do you think of emus that basically only had 1-A trucks at both ends instead of B trucks as one usually would assume?

01:40:27  <FLHerne> I mean these things http://www.railengineer.uk/wp-content/uploads/FLIRT-DMU-online.jpg

01:40:39  <FLHerne> http://www.railvolution.net/railvolution/upload/elektriradutee-flirts-on-test_2_b.jpg

01:41:32  <FLHerne> I can't think of any UK ones off-hand, but it's not a thing I've thought about

01:41:44  <FLHerne> 378s have three axles on one car powered

01:41:50  <drac_boy> ahh I see my problem..was looking for stadler emus ... duh .. mm I can see where that funny little center body would make sense

01:42:36  <FLHerne> It seems like a neat idea, they're thinking of buying them here

01:43:12  <FLHerne> Idea is that when (if...) the electrification programme produces results, the power lump comes out and they can be straight EMUs

01:43:13  <drac_boy> flherne well this http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/article_data/images/5/161958_b.jpg was such a unit (and its not you..they actually used spooked tires on the powered axle and solid tires on the unpowered axle) .. and interestingly enough they still could be found running through mountain lines with several 2-axle coaches in tow ... I guess running at slower speeds does cause less induction for the two traction axles to slip tho

01:44:02  <FLHerne> That does seem like an odd idea, I wonder why they didn't just drive both?

01:44:11  <drac_boy> http://www.marklinfan.net/loco9/et89_05.jpg thats a LOT of coaches there :p

01:44:16  <FLHerne> Early design carrying over pony-truck ideas onto it?

01:45:13  <drac_boy> flherne heh well if you want know why .. its an early use of truck-mounted motors .. I think maybe space limit did rule out wanting to run two motors into each truck at the time

01:45:40  <drac_boy> not sure .. I just know they still managed to run trains (not just themself) through mountains without a problem .. must be good design anyhow :)

01:48:11  <FLHerne> Quite surprising, two driven axles shouldn't be able to do that :P

01:48:16  <FLHerne> Anyway, I should sleep!

01:48:20  <FLHerne> Goodnight

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01:48:35  <drac_boy> bye flherne ;)

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01:49:11  * drac_boy makes a note to find more about uk mixed's just for his humor :)

01:50:50  <drac_boy> anyway I think I'll go for now too

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02:05:26  <Wolf01> 'night

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02:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause> <FLHerne> Terriers are small-wheeled 0-6-0s (is that 0C0 in europeanish?) <-- just °C". you don't write 0s

02:19:28  <Eddi|zuHause> aw. he's gone

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08:12:14  <greeter> greetings Progman

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10:34:38  <tuyenhnp> hello

10:35:19  <tuyenhnp> Who are here?

10:38:21  <tuyenhnp> @logs

10:38:21  <DorpsGek> tuyenhnp: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd

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11:42:03  <tuyenhnp> hello

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11:46:46  <Wolf01> o/

11:47:26  <__ln__> |

11:47:38  <__ln__> /\

11:48:26  <Wolf01> we must retry

11:48:30  <Wolf01> \o/

11:48:50  <__ln__> <|

11:49:01  <__ln__>  \\

11:49:34  <Wolf01> what's the < ?

11:54:36  <__ln__> the gradient of motion?

11:55:01  <Wolf01> for a moment i thought it was a third arm

11:58:00  <tuyenhnp> lalala

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12:49:19  <__ln__> looking at tuyenhnp, the world is really running out of IPv4 addresses.

13:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the world is doomed!

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13:45:21  <Stachel-Gewitter> __ln__: Reading it in the backlog, I'm glad once IPv6 gets standard regardless of it's aweful long IPs.

13:45:21  <Stachel-Gewitter> That said, mobile networks could benefit from v6 quite well.

13:50:20  <__ln__> indeed they could

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13:52:12  <Stachel-Gewitter> __ln__: T-Mobile just started to use IPv6 for their service but as their contracts are super expensive in my opinion, I rather keep waiting until someone cheap goes v6 as well.

13:52:29  <__ln__> i'm using IPv6 on my cell phone

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14:37:50  <peter1138> IPs don't have to be long.

14:38:02  <Stachel-Gewitter> __ln__: Lucky you. It isn't standard for German providers as far as I know but at least they managed to get v6 rolling for wired connections.

14:39:18  <Stachel-Gewitter> peter1138: Say hello to IPv6.

14:40:15  <__ln__> ::1 is an IPv6 address

14:40:24  <__ln__> very short

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14:40:34  <Stachel-Gewitter> localhost doesn't count.

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18:45:16  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27441 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2015-11-10 18:45:08 +0100 )

18:45:17  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:

18:45:18  <DorpsGek> spanish - 3 changes by SilverSurferZzZ

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19:11:30  <planetmaker> good evenink

19:12:16  <planetmaker> Alberth, thanks for the patch yesterday to ogfx-landscape :) It's committed

19:14:31  <Alberth> I saw that, thanks for committing it

19:16:52  <Alberth> there are probably quite a few more similar problems in other projects

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19:17:06  <Alberth> assuming they all copied the template

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19:17:26  <Alberth> hola

19:17:34  <planetmaker> probably, yes

19:17:38  <planetmaker> quak :)

19:19:16  <frosch123> hoi

19:23:29  <Alberth> hmm, you'd think we'd have more suggestions for traffic lights, but apparently not

19:33:49  <planetmaker> hm, why?

19:35:41  <V453000> yay bug tracker emailing me success \o/

19:35:54  <Alberth> ha :p

19:36:18  <Alberth> usually not a good sign, especially if you can get assigned to bugs :p

19:36:48  <V453000> which I cant :P

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19:46:03  <Alberth> you're quite safe then :)

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20:14:12  <andythenorth> o/

20:15:19  <frosch123> it's a cat!

20:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a north

20:16:30  <andythenorth> apparently

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20:26:10  * andythenorth has not played the game

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20:52:44  * andythenorth browses forums

20:53:14  <andythenorth> nothing

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20:56:34  <frosch123> how does the firs python stuff work?

20:56:53  <frosch123> do industries have fixed cargos?

20:57:06  <frosch123> or can they switch depending on economy?

20:57:21  <frosch123> processed_cargos_and_output_ratios=[('AORE', 2), ('RFPR', 2), ('SCMT', 4)], <- i see something like that, what does that mean?

20:58:05  <andythenorth> ha ha, many questions :)

20:58:34  <frosch123> i want an easy way to extract what industries accept/produce what in which economy

20:58:48  <andythenorth> the numbers in those tuples are the production ratios as fractions of 8

20:58:48  <frosch123> i could ofc patch ottd :p

20:58:55  <andythenorth> they are summed in the calculation

20:59:05  <andythenorth> also, the docs already do what you want :)

20:59:31  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html

20:59:59  <frosch123> ah, so i can just patch that :)

21:00:11  <andythenorth> the docs creation takes care of figuring out which cargos are active per economy

21:00:24  <andythenorth> and then which industries are active

21:00:34  <andythenorth> there are some _fairly horrible_ mapping structures

21:00:39  <andythenorth> which you can repurpose

21:00:53  <andythenorth> all web apps seem to grow horrible mapping structures when rendering the page :P

21:01:04  * andythenorth looks

21:01:35  <andythenorth> frosch123: src/render_docs.py

21:01:38  <andythenorth> stuff like industry_find_industries_active_in_economy_for_cargo

21:01:51  <frosch123> looks like i may try to add another docs template which outputs a graphviz script

21:01:52  <andythenorth> there are some spiders there, but it’s ok

21:02:03  <andythenorth> oh ho :)

21:02:12  <andythenorth> does graphviz output a png or such?

21:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> spiders as in bots that search webpages?

21:02:21  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes

21:02:31  <andythenorth> spiders as in, cobwebs, arachnids, things you don’t want to touch

21:02:34  <frosch123> i thought about adding some special cases for supply cargos

21:02:54  <frosch123> if i remove those, i hope the resulting graph will look okay

21:03:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i never could teach graphviz the kind of graph i would actually like to get out of it

21:03:02  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: https://funsubstance.com/uploads/gif/63/63300.gif

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21:03:46  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/images/grfwiki/f/f1/CargoMagic10.dot.png <- it can't be worse than that :)

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21:06:56  <andythenorth> it’s much less worse than that :D

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21:07:24  <andythenorth> frosch123: ping me if you want any help, I have nothing else to do tonight, and I have no fun projects

21:07:32  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: first problem is i can't enforce a specific node placement/embedding

21:07:54  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that's the whole point

21:08:49  <frosch123> and you can influence it somewhat

21:09:25  <andythenorth> do you set weights and then trust the layout algorithm?

21:09:28  * andythenorth has never used it

21:11:17  <frosch123> you give it a basic hint, which would be in this case "mostly acyclic", and then describe the nodes and edges

21:21:36  <andythenorth> “DAG (mostly)”

21:21:37  <andythenorth> :P

21:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> sure. but that works as well as "automatic vehicle separation"...

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22:07:42  <andythenorth> rainfall rivers

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