IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-11-01
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05:27:19 <michaelrul3s> Is anyone else having problems loading the wiki?
05:28:12 <michaelrul3s> The part that fucks me over is this "This site uses HTTP Strict Transport Security (HSTS) to specify that Firefox only connect to it securely. As a result, it is not possible to add an exception for this certificate."
06:13:33 <michaelrul3s> Welp, I appreciated the response
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09:45:13 <andythenorth> Alberth: I considered siting industries on opposite sides of the map
09:45:36 <andythenorth> I can’t figure out how to avoid pathological cases though :)
09:45:40 <andythenorth> e.g. no water on one side, for ports
09:45:51 <andythenorth> snow on another side, for farms
09:46:08 <Alberth> drop the restriction for the first 1-3 ?
09:46:26 <Alberth> for ports etc, I wouldn't do it, too many restrictions already
09:47:22 <Alberth> or you have to make it part of the map requirements for that economy, but too fragile, I guess
09:48:26 <andythenorth> would simply enforcing a large minimum distance have the same effect?
09:48:47 <andythenorth> most industry types already enforce a min. distance primary <-> secondary
09:48:57 <andythenorth> usually 16 tiles or so
09:57:07 <Alberth> but then the industry still spreads over the entire map, mostly?
10:00:22 <andythenorth> remind me what your suggestion was? :)
10:00:35 <andythenorth> I was afk yesterday sorry, only saw it very later yesterday
10:04:00 <Alberth> somewhat trying to make the map not the same everywhere
10:04:42 <Alberth> ie no matter where you look at the map, the same kind of connections can be made
10:04:55 <Alberth> map size just decides how often you can do that
10:07:02 <Alberth> hehe, coal mines north and power plants south, I can see the comments "he, I have to make a track all across my 4096x4096 map to make a connection" :p
10:08:16 <Alberth> "smaller map economy" :p
10:12:31 <andythenorth> newgrf can check map co-ords
10:12:35 <andythenorth> during construction
10:13:17 <andythenorth> I do wonder if it’s better done by GS though
10:16:00 <andythenorth> industry IDs are stable enough :P
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11:05:23 <__ln__> are wolves indexed with a 0-based or 1-based index?
11:06:31 <Wolf01> a search on google returned a lot of wolf00
11:07:19 <Wolf01> but i'm wolf01 because wolf/wolf1 were already taken in battle.net in 1998 :P
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12:21:12 <frosch123> for a second i thought i had to escape the \ :)
12:22:47 <Rubidium> only the / at the begin, right?
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12:23:14 <Wolf01> nah, just press ctrl along with enter
12:23:47 <frosch123> interesting, same on konvesation
12:24:30 * Rubidium is sad you didn't do that with something more dangerous
12:25:11 <Wolf01> like /nickserv identify mypassword?
12:25:12 <frosch123> all dangerous stuff starts with @
12:25:16 <frosch123> and i doubt it works for that
12:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> /amsg you all suck
12:26:06 <Rubidium> frosch123: IMHO /part and/or /quit are more than dangerous enough
12:29:30 <frosch123> how many native speakers understand "Andean" without further context?
12:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> native speakers of andean? :p
12:40:06 <Rubidium> frosch123: probably as many as European
12:40:47 <Rubidium> I for one wouldn't know what you would mean by European without a bit of context
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12:44:23 <Wolf01> i always thought you have to memorise them all
12:48:11 <Rubidium> Wolf01: except... grow -> grew, flow -> flowed, fly -> flew
12:49:39 <frosch123> pikka -> pokka -> pukka
12:49:54 <Rubidium> Wolf01: apply it to slew ;)
12:50:54 <Wolf01> oh, that one, i remember that one
12:53:05 <Rubidium> and for fun... you also need to know the context
12:53:27 <Rubidium> relay -> relaid -> relaid *or* relay -> relayed -> relayed (depending on the meaning of the word)
12:54:12 <Rubidium> also, your grammar proportion doesn't work on draw - drew - drawn
12:54:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the most misleading is get vs. forget
12:55:22 <DorpsGek> frosch123: lordaro was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 18 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <LordAro> it's been a while
12:55:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27430 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2015-11-01 12:55:45 +0100 )
12:55:57 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
12:55:58 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Makefile] Game script directory and compat*.nut were never installed on *nix (r27399)
12:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a cool "last words" :p
12:56:00 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: There are two different availability conditions for fdatasync in the manpage. Use them both, since at least on some MinGW versions one is not enough (r27389)
12:56:01 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: win32 sound driver failed to report errors (r27383)
12:56:30 <Wolf01> eh.. and "go", i still have troubles for the right past tense to use
12:56:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what's so misleading about (for)get, (for)got, (for)got(ten)?
12:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the "ten" part
12:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: because you're tempted to rule it as "(for)gotten", which is AE
12:59:28 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27431 /branches/1.5 (8 files in 4 dirs) (2015-11-01 12:59:17 +0100 )
12:59:29 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
12:59:30 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Consider text and icon sizes when drawing the client list [FS#6265] (r27421)
12:59:31 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: GrowTownAtRoad sometimes returned false, even when a house was built [FS#6362] (r27420)
12:59:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: CmdSellRailWagon did not revert all actions properly when no orderlist could be allocated [FS#6369] (r27419)
13:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: if it helps you, there's a much much longer list of "strong" verbs in german :p
13:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (and a fairly short one of truly irregular)
13:01:18 <Wolf01> no thanks, i already have enough trying to speak italian correctly
13:03:23 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27432 /branches/1.5 (13 files in 2 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:03:13 +0100 )
13:03:24 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
13:03:25 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: "forget > verb (forgets, forgetting, forgot; past participle forgotten or chiefly US forgot)" (Oxford Dictionary), which seems to imply that forgotten is BE and forgot is AE
13:03:26 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: When selecting a refit cargo for orders, do not check whether the vehicle is in a depot or station, and do not ask whether the vehicle currently allows station-refitting. Also hide the refit cost for orders, it is not predictable (r27428)
13:03:27 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Use the NewGRF railtype sorting order in the infrastructure window (r27427)
13:03:28 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Crash when switching to or taking over companies, when an order window of a vehicle of the new company was opened. Now close those windows [FS#5842] (r27425)
13:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, but "gotten" is AE, vs. "got" BE
13:07:33 <Rubidium> my Oxford dictionary claims that the main "spelling" is Brittish, with variants in other spellings noted. That would imply that, according to Oxford forgotten is BE and forgot is AE
13:08:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: nothing is worse than the german spelling of "Nische"
13:09:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27433 /branches/1.5 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:09:41 +0100 )
13:09:48 <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Update: Documentation
13:11:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27434 /tags/1.5.3-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:11:51 +0100 )
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13:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: is that part of the spelling reform?
13:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: because i would have spelled it "Niche" (from french)
13:34:08 <frosch123> i would have expected that it is spelled "Niesche" since 1996
13:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but this is definitely territory where my spelling heuristic fails
14:01:35 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.5.3-RC1, 1.5.2
14:01:35 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.5.3-RC1, 1.5.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy"
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16:36:12 <drac_boy> anyone from uk here atm?
16:44:16 <drac_boy> hi juzz or is that juzza? heh :)
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17:17:28 <LadyHawk> < uk, can't exctly say im here tho, idling around =)
17:19:16 <drac_boy> heh, not havig a grand time online myself so kinda was just wondering if uk even had any 1-car or 2-car emu during the 1940-1970's period roughly? :)
17:28:16 <LadyHawk> ahhh can't help you there sorry.. only moved over there 11 years ago
17:29:53 <drac_boy> yeah its ok, was just curious about modelling in general .. I'll keep checking some more websites later .. maybe after I eat :)
17:30:20 <drac_boy> might find something from SR if I recall right that they had a rather early 3rd rail system
17:30:29 <LadyHawk> hehe, good luck with your digging
17:30:31 <drac_boy> hope you having fun not being too lazy btw :P
17:30:41 <LadyHawk> im having fun being lazy
17:30:52 <drac_boy> anyway bye for till next time? ;)
17:32:33 <Alberth> done playing with the mines? :)
17:36:16 <Alberth> massive transport of coal :)
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19:37:12 <andythenorth> I ask for forum suggestions, and for once there are none :P
19:39:00 <Alberth> perhaps wrong forum? :p
19:45:33 <frosch123> maybe they got too excited about the release :p
19:50:32 * andythenorth wonders if GS can manipulate town rating
19:50:40 <andythenorth> or otherwise prevent building
19:51:15 <andythenorth> got an idea for a ‘corruption’ GS
19:51:23 <Alberth> considering the explosion of city builder scripts, my guess is yes
19:51:34 <andythenorth> towns have random, highly variable mafia / bribe requirements
19:51:50 <andythenorth> and also there is a national government that randomly clamps down on corruption
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19:52:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: gs can remove company property, as long as there is no vehicle ni the way
19:52:15 <andythenorth> is Monopoly (board game) played outside of English-speaking countries?
19:52:30 <frosch123> you can bulldoze rails, roads and canals
19:52:37 <Alberth> let me guess, both sides think my company is a target? :)
19:53:02 <andythenorth> there is a property tax card in the chance cards in monopoly
19:53:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's the most famous terribly-designed board game, yes
19:53:05 <andythenorth> which can wipe you out
19:53:22 <andythenorth> allegedly designed to promote socialism, unless that’s an urban myth
19:53:37 <frosch123> everyone who tries to explain good and bad gameplay, uses monopoly as a bad example :)
19:53:59 <Alberth> hmm, I was too young to notice such things :p
19:54:34 <andythenorth> when you connect a town you get a GS dialogue, with options for bribes
19:54:51 <andythenorth> some towns want more than others
19:56:15 <andythenorth> you can choose to be ethical or not
19:56:29 <andythenorth> and every so often a corruption investigation might be triggered
19:56:45 <andythenorth> you lose a lot of money or infrastructure if you’re found to be highly corrupt
19:59:50 <Alberth> wouldn't work for me, but ymmv
20:02:40 <andythenorth> doesn’t work for me either
20:02:53 <andythenorth> idea came about because I was thinking of post-colonial FIRS economy
20:03:55 <frosch123> do a pre-colonial gs :p
20:04:43 <frosch123> the map is empty except for some start items, and the gs adds towns and industries in the directions you expand
20:05:32 <andythenorth> I want to do that
20:05:45 <andythenorth> “Conquer the West” or something
20:06:16 <andythenorth> I have too many unfinished newgrfs right now, and I don’t want to do Squirrel on my own :P
20:06:34 <frosch123> so do a firewater economy
20:06:52 <frosch123> farms don't give you anything, until you delivered them with firewater once
20:07:16 <frosch123> single-delivery supplies
20:07:17 <andythenorth> what game is that from? o_O
20:07:46 <frosch123> no idea, just imagine the farm has always been there, but they do not care about your weird trains
20:08:07 <frosch123> at start only harbors supply cargo
20:08:29 <frosch123> one of them is firewater (1 item per month or something silly)
20:08:46 <frosch123> you have to deliver that to some industry, which only then starts production
20:09:00 <frosch123> possibly you do not even see the production potential in advance
20:09:24 <frosch123> it adds some weird micromanagement to expansion, maybe it sucks, maybe it is cool
20:09:34 <frosch123> may need disabling of aircraft though
20:09:37 <frosch123> else it is pointless
20:11:41 <frosch123> maybe you find a better name than "firewater" though :p
20:11:56 <frosch123> maybe "harvesting licence"?
20:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> allegedly designed to promote socialism, unless that’s an urban myth <-- well, that was some earlier version before it got popular and unbalanced
20:19:37 <andythenorth> frosch123: is that what the ‘workers industries’ grf does? o_O
20:19:40 * andythenorth hasn’t played it
20:20:16 <frosch123> but i don't think so
20:20:33 <frosch123> all grfs i have seen require constant supply of supplies
20:20:37 <Alberth> it makes pax work for their existence, afaik
20:20:47 <frosch123> in this case you have an extremly rare resource, which you only need to supply once though
20:21:18 <frosch123> if one harbour supplies 12 units per year
20:21:23 <Alberth> like uranium bars, produced once every 10-15 years :p
20:21:48 <frosch123> you can micromanage some vehicle with 1 capacity to activate 12 industries in that year
20:22:38 <frosch123> there are no real means to stockpile such cargo, unless you use the 100% cheat
20:23:07 <frosch123> but if you deliver all to one industry, they are all gone, and you cannot activate any new industries
20:24:25 <frosch123> but, meh, may also be just annoying :p
20:27:34 * andythenorth files it away as an idea
20:27:58 <andythenorth> I’m going to try an economy where ~half the industry types aren’t built at map gen
20:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have an order "load only 1 piece of cargo", though
20:28:17 <andythenorth> so you have to earn money on exports, then build them yourself
20:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't i suggest that years ago for a "development country" economy?
21:11:39 <andythenorth> could be time to do it
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21:22:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: can you remember any more ideas? o_O
21:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, unless you give clues to it :p
21:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> no, really, most of my memories are tied to a specific context, and thus are almost impossible to access from outside that context.
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21:26:16 <andythenorth> it possibly came up when I was designing Heart of Darkness?
21:26:26 <andythenorth> (which I’m now replacing, no longer happy about it)
21:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> why replace it, if you can just make a new one?
21:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe other people are more happy about your stuff than you are? :p
21:33:51 <Alberth> that's nothing new :p
21:40:38 <andythenorth> in this case I don’t want to use the name anymore
21:41:30 <andythenorth> I have read a lot of Conrad, but I have also understood, that for some Africans, what he writes is unquestionably racist and offensive
21:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> then call it "colonial"?
21:42:19 <andythenorth> something like that yes
21:42:42 <andythenorth> it’s also a bit unsatisfactory to play, it’s a few more industries & cargos than ‘basic’
21:43:01 <andythenorth> but not enough to be ‘complex'
21:43:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that i cannot judge
21:43:23 <andythenorth> the mechanic of ‘all cargo goes to ports’ gets old fast
21:43:38 <andythenorth> although it did cause ports to get added to FIRS, which has been beneficial
22:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i have difficulty understanding her
22:07:04 <frosch123> it gets better after 10 minutes
22:07:11 <frosch123> or i got used to the voice and noise
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23:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not quite sure what her point was, except for "don't give a man a fish, teach him how to fish"
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