IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-10-22
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00:39:10 <__ln__> got some good advice from him about analyzing poetry though
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08:48:02 <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause, __ln__: Simplified and Traditional Chinese are the same language, spoken
08:48:25 <Flygon> The American and British English comparison is incredibly on-the-point
08:48:41 <__ln__> but what aboot cantonese and mandarin?
08:48:53 <Flygon> Simplified Chinese was introduced to make the language easier to read. This means that a lot of characters were 'simplified' compared to the Traditional character
08:49:17 <Flygon> All Chinese use Simplified Chinese except for the Hong Kongers, which use Traditional
08:49:18 <tipsyTentacle> Cantonese and Mandarin are two different languages
08:49:30 <tipsyTentacle> Cantonese is "written in Mandarin" though
08:49:36 <Flygon> They're generally compatible, but some characters might be confusing to read for someone unfamiliar with the other language
08:49:44 <Flygon> Yeah, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken as seperate languages
08:49:55 <Flygon> Written Chinese is... 'special'
08:50:23 <Flygon> In that, pre-Gana/Kana and pre-Hangul Japan and Korea had pretty much identically written written language to Chinese
08:50:44 <Flygon> Hence why Korea and Japan have had hereditary Hanja/Kanji (tho, they're being gradually phased out)
08:50:49 <tipsyTentacle> Same with Vietnam pre-colonial era
08:51:09 <Flygon> This meant that even if the people from the three countries couldn't SPEAK to eachother, they were mutually intelligible written
08:51:24 <Flygon> Note: I'm not a linguistics expert
08:51:34 <Flygon> I just pick these things up due to curiousity
08:52:03 <Flygon> And take my advice with salt. Plenty of it.
08:52:12 <Flygon> tipsyTentacle: I don't know too much about Vietnam, myself
08:52:23 <tipsyTentacle> As someone from the region, I think what you said is correct.
08:52:29 <Flygon> I understand it's related closely to Chinese region languages tho
08:53:02 <Flygon> Either way, I'm Australian
08:53:30 <tipsyTentacle> Vietnamese is a weird one. It deviates from Klmer, I believe, but there are lots of Chinese loan words and prior to French colonialism, was written with Han/Chinese characters.
08:53:33 <Flygon> My real extent of my language knowledge is having a vague telling of it someone is speaking either Korean or Mandarin on the Train :B
08:55:25 <tipsyTentacle> Um, a language primarily in Southeast Asia. I don't know much about it. It might be extinct?
08:55:36 <Flygon> Yeah, might explain why I've never heard of it xP
08:55:48 <Flygon> Most of my interaction with people in the region tends to be Pinoys and Malaysians
08:56:09 <Flygon> It's kind of maddening playing the MMOs with them, because...
08:56:13 <Flygon> Most have incredibly good English
08:56:31 <Flygon> But will tip back to Tagalog the slightest leeway they get. Which leaves me out in the cold. :B
08:56:35 <Flygon> #australiantimezoneproblems
08:56:52 <tipsyTentacle> Hehe that's actually fairly amusing
08:57:09 <tipsyTentacle> I remember my friend was in a WoW guild that had a lot of German players and chat was divided between German and Englishh
08:57:24 <Flygon> And with the art side of things... it's incredibly frustrating trying to work with Japanese speakers
08:57:27 <Flygon> Because the problem is...
08:57:35 <Flygon> We really REALLY want to work with eachother, and to talk
08:57:47 <Flygon> But getting good translations happening is nigh impossible :D
08:58:04 <Flygon> Particulary frustrating when we want to exchange art advice @_@
08:58:32 <Flygon> When Gravity tried to extend Ragnarok Online to Europe initially
08:58:39 <tipsyTentacle> Yeah, translation software usually don't do English-Japanese well. The languages are... fairly different, to say the least.
08:58:40 <Flygon> They gave the server operator the AEGIS software
08:59:06 <Flygon> But instead of handing the euRO operators the same AEGIS software iRO used (American English), they gave them jRO (Japan, obviously)'s software in GERMAN
08:59:35 <Flygon> Not only was the entire internal AEGIS software in Japanese, they were given zero provisions for offering the game in other extremely obviously important languages :D
09:00:15 <Flygon> Anyway, the service crashed and burned a few years later, the operator was basically "Blame Gravity, they fucked us over", and the playerbase (prodiminantly German for obvious reasons) felt a bit bitter over the whole thing
09:00:49 <tipsyTentacle> Ouch, sounds harsh.
09:01:17 <Flygon> Anyway, it gets reincernated later, in plain English (sure, non-English speakers play, but it's easier for a Spanish guy to muddle through than German :U), annnd, yeay
09:01:34 <Flygon> (plain, as in, using iRO's translation using American English)
09:02:00 <tipsyTentacle> hehe interesting.
09:02:01 <Flygon> But... yeah. One of the stupidest translation trainwreck stories in history
09:02:11 <tipsyTentacle> Gaming* history
09:02:18 <tipsyTentacle> I am sure there have been wars over errors in translations
09:02:38 <Flygon> Also, regarding the software translation thing for JPN-ENG
09:02:41 <Flygon> The issue wasn't the software
09:02:52 <Flygon> The issue was that the HUMANS we were using didn't do art :D
09:03:13 <tipsyTentacle> Oh! So lots of jargon?
09:04:05 <Flygon> Advised him to talk to a Japanese artist about what I was trying to help him with
09:04:59 <tipsyTentacle> Also, a random note, but Khmer is also known as Cambodian, as in the Cambodian language.
09:05:13 <Flygon> That's why I've heard of it before
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12:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause> <Flygon> Yeah, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken as seperate languages <-- so they write the same word, but pronounce it completely different?
12:22:12 <Flygon> Each letter from Chinese script basically represents a individual word/concept, no matter how it's spoken
12:23:12 <Flygon> This is also pretty much why the Chinese Government started introducing a phonetic script around the early 1900s... because it would've been a nuciance to create new words. But I don't know Chinese languages well enough to be certain.
12:24:03 <tipsyTentacle> Also known as Zhuyin or Zhuyin fuhao
12:24:58 <tipsyTentacle> It was created by the Nationalist government for phonetic notation
12:25:30 <tipsyTentacle> It isn't used outside of children books and dictionaries (in Taiwan, the bastion of the Nationalist government)
12:26:03 <tipsyTentacle> The mainland Communist government uses pinyin as its system for phonetic notation.
12:27:11 <Flygon> Again, I'm in no way a linguist, so, don't trust me for the specificis
12:28:11 <tipsyTentacle> Again, this is only because I grew up in an East Asian community (while being East Asian myself), so... yeah. I have personal experience with both systems, mew.
12:29:08 <tipsyTentacle> The kid books in the "traditional chinese" section of my local library has bopomofo in it.
12:33:05 <tipsyTentacle> Anyhow, the phonetic script wasn't made to replace the characters, I believe. If I remember right, there were lots of people against using a phonetic script (and a lot of people opposed to simplications of the characters).
12:34:01 <tipsyTentacle> I would guess that it was made to make teaching a standardized version of Mandarin to the entire nation much easier.
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14:09:56 * fjb should find some time to play OpenTTD again.
14:12:50 * tipsyTentacle approves of that plan.
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15:44:15 <Wolf01> i don't know why suddenly came to my mind this: teacher "you shouldn't ask for 'a glass of water', but 'water in a glass, please'"
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15:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that. of course, is pure nonsense.
15:56:07 <V453000> I also think that it is shit on a heap
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16:47:57 <Wolf01> i think i'll purchase other 5 emerald express sets, just to make 2 trains with 3 cars each one
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18:40:25 <Eddi|zuHause> in my mind, less than 4 wagons is not a proper train...
18:42:02 <frosch123> so most dmus are no proper trains?
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18:44:42 <frosch123> did you draw slug biters yet?
18:45:22 <frosch123> resp. how often per day to you bring up that topic to convince people?
18:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and slugs are way scarier than biters :p
18:56:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what when there are many axles?
18:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: there's almost a don't-care about number of axles
18:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> also, slugs don't have axles :p
18:59:28 <V453000> slug biters are coming for sure, I just didnt start them yet :P
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19:01:05 <frosch123> haha, your graphics skills have definitely a train background :p
19:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's pretty much a "no" on the train scale :p
19:02:38 <V453000> yeah probably not :) at least not anytime soon
19:02:51 <V453000> got enough stuff to do for the game already
19:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is probably a train.
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19:06:58 <Rubidium> though... it only has four wagons
19:07:05 <Rubidium> the rest can be powered
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20:03:10 <repower15> hi all is trhere a listing where i can see stuck trains
20:03:22 <repower15> i now got 400 running and somtimes they pile up
20:03:39 <repower15> only ones a year i got notice
20:03:59 <repower15> maybe a flag i can indicate on my own scripting
20:05:10 <repower15> its then a miss to clean all up
20:06:18 <repower15> i folow the max load available but thats on high traffic not a good one as water is not a high value or things like that
20:07:06 <FLHerne> repower15: In the map, there's an option that shows the positions of trains
20:07:29 <FLHerne> A big clump of trains that aren't moving is fairly conspicuous
20:07:45 <repower15> i know but on a 12024 map its not that good view
20:08:48 <repower15> FLHerne: you may also know thar rome on canvas is fairly limited
20:09:53 <FLHerne> Sorting by profit in the vehicle list can work, but takes a while
20:10:54 <repower15> if a cross map route piles up then you are in notice float
20:12:25 <repower15> also as in Railroadtycoon a realy good feature is a list of townes thar need things Eqal to Openttd woudt be a list of growing time
20:13:15 <repower15> so you can see this town is in good shape and hase alot of things othere might be delivered more
20:13:52 <repower15> im now playing since 0.5 2games a real humen year
20:15:33 <repower15> is there a mailinglist to get some user reqestet feature for futher vertions
20:16:23 <repower15> or for anouncing better behavier on some build ins
20:18:55 <repower15> most angry is that townes do not take water or food if the auto builder puts some waterwell or food plant near
20:19:10 <repower15> BYE im off for today
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