IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-10-11
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01:34:49 <Flygon> Either way, at least OpenTTD supports 1280*1024 correctly >_>
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09:57:12 <Alberth> enough pig wrestling done? :)
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13:07:16 <Fahrradkette> hey guys, I've been wondering if building diagonal rail tunnels or bridges (in order to build flyovers) will be possible in like n years. I did not find that particular feature on the requested_features list in the wiki, all I found was some statement saying tunnels will be easier because they're implemented as a pair of warpholes.
13:22:40 <Alberth> diagonal tunnels and bridges are unlikely to happen in the current map layout, imho
13:23:59 <Alberth> I wouldn't know how to draw a diagonal tunnel end
13:24:29 <Alberth> diagonal track is not in the middle of a tile
13:27:03 <Alberth> the problem looks similar to diagonal going up a level, which is currently also not possible
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13:42:53 <Fahrradkette> I see. Thanks for clarification, I appreciate it.
13:52:15 * andythenorth wonders if he could just make FIRS
13:52:24 <andythenorth> and somebody else could do the vehicle sets :P
13:52:30 <andythenorth> too many unfinished at once
13:58:00 <Alberth> yeah, starting a new project is way easier than finishing one :(
13:58:44 <Alberth> but I would say you can
14:11:30 * andythenorth wonders if the problem is just Tropic
14:11:34 <andythenorth> boring landscape
14:11:56 <Alberth> too many unfinished tropic vehicles?
14:12:27 <andythenorth> unfinished South American roster for Iron Horse
14:12:39 <andythenorth> lots of brown wagons on brown landscape
14:12:53 <andythenorth> also, maybe Busy Bee isn’t so good with FIRS basic economies
14:12:57 <andythenorth> not a lot of variety
14:14:06 <Alberth> why are wagons brown, skidlow usually posts wagons with many colours :)
14:14:55 <Alberth> not exactly south america though
14:16:43 <andythenorth> they’re copied from NARS and such
14:16:47 <andythenorth> they need repainting
14:16:56 <andythenorth> also…tropic has no mountains, ever
14:18:27 <Alberth> it's for the flatlanders building large flat junctions :p
14:18:44 <andythenorth> flatland is right :)
14:19:20 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <DanMacK> It would help if I extracted the grf from the TAR
14:22:22 <argoneus> probably slightly offtopic question...but
14:22:25 <argoneus> how aids would android dev be for a bachelor thesis? I never dev'd for android
14:24:15 <argoneus> I don't want to do a webdev thesis because it's obnoxious
14:24:25 <argoneus> it has to be javascript web2.0 responsive mobile friendly and whatever
14:24:41 <argoneus> I have no idea how android is
14:25:53 <__ln__> "android dev" alone is not a good thesis topic
14:26:02 <Alberth> it's just java, I guess?
14:34:18 <argoneus> "a java application that does X with an android client"
14:34:23 <argoneus> and I'm worried about the client part
14:34:28 <argoneus> since I've never done android
14:53:13 <__ln__> why pick a topic you're not familiar with nor maybe not interested in?
14:56:36 <Alberth> usually the goal is to learn something you don't already know :)
14:58:11 <__ln__> and in bachelor's thesis that something is the skill of academic writing.
15:05:07 <Alberth> as well as structuring a subject
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15:54:11 <drac_boy> just curious if anyone here had an itx board or thinking of one?
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16:04:41 <frosch123> i had an atx board once
16:08:20 <drac_boy> did you have 5-7 cards in it? ;) and as usual hi frosch :)
16:09:53 <frosch123> network 10/100, graphics, scsi scanner, multi i/o, sound
16:10:38 <drac_boy> let me guess... P2/P3 or athlon? :)
16:11:05 <drac_boy> figured.. lot of things went onboard after this era more or less
16:11:28 <frosch123> it had isa and floppy on board
16:11:38 <frosch123> and like one serial and parallel port
16:12:16 <drac_boy> mm .. heh well anyway I'm still undecided about trying to find a nice itx or to just basically stop bothering with x86 too much (other than for laptop) .. but thats a bit unrelated so I wouldn't go too much into it unless you didn't mind
16:12:20 <frosch123> it also had some isa slots i think :)
16:12:53 <drac_boy> frosch for the record if you wanted to know.. you could actually buy an used board that combined a sandybridge cpu with up to 3 isa slots next to the usual pcie+pci slots ... crazy I know ;)
16:13:29 <frosch123> nah, i figured the less stuff there is on a board, the better it runs
16:13:49 <frosch123> if mainboards get too complex, they are buggy as hell
16:14:41 <drac_boy> frosch well...I think part of the problem stems from pcb .. why use an entire separate pcb card at cost when the same audio chips could fit into a 10x5cm empty space on the motherboard itself?
16:15:22 <drac_boy> but yeah some things (niche or not) like multiply digital audio streams or tv tuners still have a purpose existing as addon cards nevertheless
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16:21:39 <drac_boy> frosch but anyway what're you doing now?
16:22:48 <frosch123> wondering whether to stop in singapore or bangkok when travelling europe<->australia
16:23:06 <drac_boy> ah...well have fun with that
16:23:57 * drac_boy wants to whack you with an empty bag for saying that? :P
16:25:25 <frosch123> my insane globetrotting brother decides to marry at the other end of the world. now i have to figure out how to make the best out of that trip :p
16:27:00 <frosch123> but none of the stations appear nerdy
16:32:00 <drac_boy> you're strange? ;) heh
16:38:11 <drac_boy> I'm just looking at some misc websites now (a little bit computer peripherals, a little bit re upcoming model board, and re sorting out if pickup or not)
16:42:02 <drac_boy> if getting a pickup*
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16:45:38 * drac_boy whacks demon with a flaming fork?
16:45:45 <drac_boy> heh..sorry...slow day for me here :)
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18:02:12 <Wolf01> no, i just finished it
18:03:06 <Wolf01> and it sits on my bed... i think i'll sleep in the chair :|
18:04:41 <Wolf01> it's too big to fit between the chair's armrests
18:08:11 <Alberth> it sounds like the cat of eddi, taking all the good space :)
18:09:20 <Wolf01> cats and lego have many things in common, taking the space for them is one of these
18:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference is that once lego occupies a space, it occupies that exact space. a cat occupies all the spaces seemingly simultaneously
18:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause> as soon as you observe a space, a cat occupies that space
18:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (it doesn't help that there are two of them, either :p)
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19:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> nah, i figured the less stuff there is on a board, the better it runs <-- all the chipsets still have the ISA stuff builtin, just there are no connections on the board.
20:02:12 * andythenorth considers removing FIRS Basic economies
20:02:21 <andythenorth> because, eh, what’s the point of them?
20:20:36 <Alberth> people not getting overwhelmed by the full economy?
20:21:03 <Alberth> it is not required that an author plays with all things he makes :p
20:24:24 <andythenorth> maybe FIRS Tropic Basic just lacks a bit of depth
20:24:32 <andythenorth> Temperate Basic is fun, I have played it numerous times
20:25:34 <frosch123> maybe start a poll :p
20:25:45 <frosch123> i liked the drama around the last one
20:27:18 <andythenorth> that was fun for a bit :)
20:29:27 <andythenorth> Tropic basic has no depth of chains
20:29:38 <andythenorth> most cargos are trivially available
20:30:49 <frosch123> funnily that is the main case in default ttd
20:30:56 <frosch123> steel is the only secondary cargo
20:32:21 <Alberth> people wrongly ignore toyland :p
20:32:40 <frosch123> toyland has no secondary cargo either
20:34:19 <andythenorth> maybe I should just put the fishing chain in
20:35:12 <frosch123> i kind of like the settings of ogfx+industries
20:35:29 <frosch123> user selection of certain chains, or simplification via ports
20:36:13 <frosch123> but well, just "on"/"off" is likely no good plan
20:36:22 <frosch123> everyone would go for all "on"
20:36:37 <frosch123> so, ideally some would have "a" or "b" instead of "on" or "off"
20:37:44 <frosch123> like: alcohol source -> fruit or grain
20:38:20 <frosch123> food source -> fish or farm
20:38:42 <frosch123> wood product -> paper or building supplies
20:39:23 <frosch123> port: supplies from primary or secondary cargos
20:43:30 <andythenorth> I think the Basic idea is ok, for some reason Tropic isn’t fun though
20:43:44 <andythenorth> usually this ends up with a tweak, not a rebuild :P
20:45:51 <andythenorth> food is quite dominant
20:46:02 <andythenorth> just adding fish won’t help, because fish -> food
20:46:14 <andythenorth> could do fish -> export cargo
20:46:17 <andythenorth> but that’s also broing
20:51:02 <frosch123> so, you want some secondary cargo?
20:51:13 <frosch123> or some other supplies?
20:56:02 <frosch123> for more secondary cargo, remove some stuff from the ports
20:56:19 <frosch123> e.g. add some industries that produce vehicle parts
20:56:36 <frosch123> either from rubber or from ore or stuff
20:57:38 <andythenorth> that is a good idea
20:57:56 <frosch123> generally there is very little in the metal area
20:58:04 <frosch123> otoh, you can focus more on food
20:58:12 <andythenorth> I have an industry that can produce vehicle parts already
20:58:12 <frosch123> and add more processed food
20:58:47 <andythenorth> I could produce sugar instead of food, at food refinery
20:58:59 <frosch123> hmm, though food is mostly two stage :/
20:59:05 <andythenorth> food is over-provided I think
20:59:37 <frosch123> maybe replace one of the supplies with animal food
21:00:03 <frosch123> so, meat is no primary, but a secondary
21:00:39 <frosch123> yeah, i guess turning livestock into a secondary cargo could work
21:04:27 <frosch123> no new graphics or cargos needed :)
21:04:55 <frosch123> add a grain source, and deliver beans and grain to the ranch
21:06:04 <frosch123> export fruit directly
21:06:16 <frosch123> and make the food processing plant accept beans and livestock
21:06:58 <frosch123> all food is chili con carne then
21:25:15 <andythenorth> chili con carne cargo :P
21:25:45 * frosch123 senses a cargo class discussion
21:27:45 <andythenorth> ‘non-vegetarian'
21:36:33 <Supercheese> 'spicy' on a scale of 1-5
21:37:20 * andythenorth plans to make Basic economies a little bigger
21:39:40 <frosch123> i am against inserters in underground belts
21:40:02 <V453000> inserters aint signals, factorio has its own rail signals :P
21:44:23 <frosch123> if you move more stuff underground, then please pieps :p
21:44:46 <frosch123> while underground pipes are said to loose less pressure
21:44:54 <frosch123> i mainly use them because they are not in the way
21:45:09 <frosch123> well, and sometimes because they do not connect to all sides
21:45:37 <frosch123> or add a jetpack to fly over them :p
21:46:34 <V453000> legacy of the void in less than a month :P
21:47:39 <frosch123> i completely lost track of lotv, at some point it turned into chaotically changing and reverting random shit
21:48:03 <Supercheese> It was one of the very first things I did in Factorio
21:48:10 <V453000> I didnt really follow it from the start, but I want to play the campaign :)
21:48:24 <Supercheese> there is also a separate jetpack mod
21:48:56 <Supercheese> seriously though, I kept getting blocked off by my own damn buildings, and had to fix it
21:49:24 <frosch123> i like comparing factorio modding with ottd modding :p
21:49:29 <frosch123> bobs mods are like ecs
21:49:43 <frosch123> way too big and completely out of scale in some parts
21:50:17 <frosch123> all the mods are mostly exploring stuff currently
21:50:35 <frosch123> i guess at some point there will be some which take ideas but scale them somewhat sane :)
21:51:43 <V453000> yeah that I have to admit
21:51:46 <Supercheese> I might make a zeppelin mod, because zeppelins are the best things
21:51:46 <V453000> most mods have some idea
21:51:51 <V453000> and bring it WAY the fuck over the top
21:52:06 <V453000> at the same time, many hardcore players find that perfectly fitting
21:52:08 <Supercheese> airship trains :U
21:52:26 <V453000> at the same time though, there are many great little tool mods
21:52:52 <Supercheese> good night, don't let the biters bite
22:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> why does it say "photo", but then it's an mp4?
22:06:15 <andythenorth> Wolf01: seen the 2015 Technic? o_O
22:06:42 <Wolf01> yes, i want to burn my eyes :(
22:07:02 <Wolf01> i hope for some real technic sets
22:08:10 <andythenorth> I like them though, especially purple go kart :)
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22:09:44 <andythenorth> maybe I could have ‘minerals’ cargo :P
22:09:49 <andythenorth> produced by ‘mines’
22:10:06 <andythenorth> but maybe Salt is just Chemicals?
22:10:15 <Wolf01> the next step will be a vespene refinery?
22:11:17 <andythenorth> different economy ;)
22:14:55 <ryouma> i can't use openttd because the fonts are too small. if i do -r 640x480, it is fine, but there are some things that don't work. <andythenorth> suggested game options -> interface size -> double size, but there is no "interface size" option. i am running 1.4.4 (debian jessie). also "you’ll also need max zoom in settings to be 2x or 4x". all i notice is zoom_max. it is set to 5. is that ok?
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22:19:14 <Alberth> standard FAQ question :)
22:24:59 <andythenorth> perhaps interface zoom is only in 1.5.x
22:25:07 * andythenorth builds from trunk
22:33:19 <ryouma> one issue is that some resolutions that i try seem to freeze my x windows. i get a black screen and mouse and nothing else. i have to kill fluxbox to fix it.
22:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably the fault of your video driver
22:39:28 <ryouma> i had already tried the font size change, and don't remember the issue. it might be that all the icons were too small to figure out what they are?
22:39:58 <ryouma> is there a way to pan without the minimap?
22:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> right click or arrow keys?
22:40:45 <ryouma> right click just provides info on what you click on; drag does nothing. was hoping mouse-only for accessibility reasons.
22:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, click on something that is not a button :p
22:41:45 <ryouma> that pans? didn't work for me.
22:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> have you ever played a game before?
22:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> also, there is a setting for left-click scrolling and for edge-scrolling, i believe.
22:46:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i could be imagining this, i never used those...
22:49:37 <ryouma> Eddi|zuHause: not sure how to interpret your question's intention. felt rude.
22:49:46 <andythenorth> nah, he’s just being direct :)
22:49:51 * andythenorth wonders seriously if ‘metal ore’ is a valid cargo for Basic economies
22:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: no, i'm just german.
22:50:22 <ryouma> drag truly did nothing. questioning whether i played a game before soudns like saying it should do something.
22:50:38 <ryouma> i found the option to pan, which it calls scrolling. it works now.
22:50:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: i meant, how familiar are you with game interfaces in general
22:51:50 <ryouma> i have played simcity long ago and some rts, including freecraft
22:52:31 <ryouma> i have been very frustrated trying to get even one game on debian to even work. openttd is the closest to working, but it is still not there.
22:52:43 <ryouma> (freecraft worked on wheezy)
22:52:58 <ryouma> and working, for me, means a legible font and legible icons
22:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: if you're not willing to update to 1.5, you can try the old "biggui" grf, which was meant for that case
22:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> but things might be unpolished in such an old version...
22:55:08 <penut> is there a way for me to see change logs on Openttd versions?
22:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is a changelog link on the download page
22:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause> also, there should be a changelog file in your download
22:56:15 <ryouma> the reason i don't know if it is my graphics card is that 1280x720 is the resolution i always use on my monitor
22:57:31 <Rubidium> for ryouma I would've suggested to just install the openttd binary from unstable, but due to some library migrations that's definitely not an option anymore
22:57:40 <ryouma> i am looking up biggui now. i presume this is not on debian? did not find it there. i clicked on wiki "online content" which was pointed to and it is not there either.
22:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause> <ryouma> i have played simcity long ago and some rts, including freecraft <-- i see. with this background, edge-scrolling is probably more familiar than right-click-scrolling
22:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: it was probably removed from online content, due to being obsolete
22:59:03 <Rubidium> biggui is still downloadable in trunk ("opengfx + biggui" that is)
22:59:16 <ryouma> hmm, right click does scroll. i thought i tried that before. i did not find edge scrolling but panning and scrolling are fine.
22:59:36 <ryouma> Eddi|zuHause: the faq stillpoints to the nonexistent download
23:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: if the removal was done the correct way, then it should still be possible to download in the ingame content download menu
23:02:21 <Rubidium> biggui is also downloadable from online content in 1.3, so it should also be downloadable in 1.4
23:03:58 <ryouma> ok i got biggui to work. it seems ok with 800x600 and slightly smaller fonts. although i don't know if 800x600 will contain all dialog boxes.
23:04:32 <andythenorth> occupational hazard tbh
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