IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-08-02
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01:13:04 <argoneus> is there a decent layout for a roro station that is also drive through?
01:20:25 <argoneus> roro station is like get in, get out, go back
01:20:30 <argoneus> but I want both that and get in, and keep going
01:21:26 <Sylf> are we talking about the same thing?
01:22:30 <Sylf> I'm talking about the usage of terms like roro and drivethru
01:25:11 <argoneus> I made my roro so it goes in the station, and then goes back to where it came from
01:25:52 <argoneus> basically I made B<->C first with a roro that loops back towards B
01:26:00 <argoneus> and now I want to use the same tracks to make A<->D
01:26:13 <argoneus> and I'm wondering if it's possible to make a drive-through station out of the roro station
01:27:51 <argoneus> won't that jam a lot
01:28:03 <Sylf> not if you have enough platforms
01:28:10 <Sylf> and don't use pre-signal version
01:28:11 <argoneus> from the same page: Advancaed combined termi/roro is what I want probably
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13:01:10 <argoneus> that I don't need to build super optimized networks
13:01:18 <argoneus> I just make networks that work and when they choke I rebuild parts of it
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14:01:15 <argoneus> I want a line of X stations where trains go back and forth
14:01:21 <argoneus> and have multiple lines like that?
14:01:26 <argoneus> and a bus network in the city or so
14:01:39 <argoneus> so like a network of multi-station lines
14:02:07 <argoneus> or do I want to have like A->B->C->D->A
14:02:42 <Alberth> it's hard to know what your mind wants :)
14:03:46 <Alberth> in the latter case, I'd also add A->D->C->B->A trains
14:04:11 <argoneus> im just wondering how to make a proper pax network
14:09:39 <Alberth> both seem very reasonable solutions to me
14:10:14 <argoneus> when I have A B C D A
14:10:23 <argoneus> what does the train do when it reaches D
14:10:48 <argoneus> it should be a circle
14:10:49 <Alberth> I read that as a cycle
14:11:11 <argoneus> but adding new stations to the cycle sounds painful
14:11:16 <Alberth> which implies A and D should be somewhat close-ish to each other
14:11:28 <argoneus> i dont add stations, i make new cycles
14:11:45 <argoneus> does that sound valid
14:12:08 <Alberth> I think you need not too large cycles, more cycles helps there too
14:12:29 <argoneus> i can also chain cycles
14:12:56 <Alberth> if you have a string of small villages, then back and forth between A and D seems like the only solution to me
14:13:15 <argoneus> back and forth or a cycle?
14:13:25 <Alberth> make two independent cycles? seems nice
14:13:54 <Alberth> if you have A at one end, and D at the other end, cycles don't seem useful to me
14:14:20 <argoneus> but then the train has to go all the way back
14:14:28 <argoneus> and mirrored orders are a pain
14:14:47 <Alberth> yeah, so back and forth between A and D would work best
14:15:11 <argoneus> or does my train do A B C D C B A
14:15:12 <Alberth> nah, just make the train stop at every station, and let it run between A and D
14:15:38 <argoneus> is there an easy way to do that without mirroring orders manually?
14:16:07 <Alberth> yep, go to A, go to D (disable non-stop)
14:16:19 <Alberth> make sure the train cannot avoid B and C
14:16:34 <argoneus> will cargodist figure it out?
14:16:52 <argoneus> it will make implicit orders
14:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as it does not chaotically avoid B and C
14:18:07 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. by going to depot
14:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so better make an explicit depot order
14:21:45 <argoneus> wouldn't a cycle be better though
14:22:01 <Alberth> just try both, and compare?
14:22:06 <argoneus> if I have A-B-C-D-C-B-A, then I will need to manage train separation a lot
14:22:21 <argoneus> because when a train is in D, A will be full of pax
14:22:32 <argoneus> and timetabling trains seems like a pain
14:23:00 <Alberth> simplest form of timetabling is to make a big gap in your track blocks
14:23:27 <Alberth> next train won't enter the block after the previous has left
14:23:39 <argoneus> so separate signals?
14:23:50 <Alberth> so they are always "big gap length" apart from each other
14:23:56 <Alberth> no, a lot of no signals
14:24:21 <Alberth> one straight track of 20-30-40 tiles wtihout signals
14:24:22 <argoneus> that's problematic though
14:24:29 <argoneus> because the train will be waiting in the gap
14:24:32 <argoneus> while it could still be loading people
14:24:55 <Alberth> if it's waiting, it's early
14:25:37 <Alberth> you have any doubt that your train is not going to be full for 100% all the time?? :)
14:26:48 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: if the signal method is too crude for you, you can always switch to timetabling
14:27:35 <argoneus> I guess you're right
14:27:47 <argoneus> I should get a pax game save
14:27:49 <argoneus> and check things out
14:28:14 <Alberth> try it, and adapt to improve :)
14:28:40 <Alberth> testing whether your idea actually works is half the fun :)
14:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> <argoneus> wouldn't a cycle be better though <- no, because circles are terrible for cargodist, and you still need to worry about separation
14:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> other people's savegames are usually terrible
14:31:27 <argoneus> i could look at coop savegames
14:31:38 <argoneus> but with that sort of planning it won't help me much on a small scale
14:32:08 <Alberth> luckily, everybody thinks other people cannot make a train network :p
14:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> coop savegames are especially terrible :p
14:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> "i want to learn woodworking" ... "here take a look at this industrial scale machine"
14:36:28 <Alberth> true tycoons always do things at grand scale :D
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14:59:54 <Audiopulse> sad_dude - thanks for the changes. My first impression is they really do well with the whole package.
15:00:10 <Audiopulse> From what ive seen the trams are even in good balance with the trucks
15:09:03 <Audiopulse> There is something else that crossed my mind, that might beg for a try:
15:11:57 <Audiopulse> I kind of like how the game rewards you with way higher outputs when you deliver all the required resources instead of just one. In the past I just slammed factories with, lets say all coal I could find but cared less about glass, gravel etc.
15:13:19 <Audiopulse> It kind of actually makes you feel like you really own the factory as you have to tend to it nicely.
15:15:38 <Audiopulse> Now, what if every factory produced a little bit even with no supplies at all (Only some do atm) but to further boost your output, you would have to fund supplying factories yourself? Primary resources like forests, Farms, Fishing-grounds etc. would still be there from the start, of course.
15:16:48 <Audiopulse> The idea behind that would be you would actively work on your chain and make sure you find a good place to settle with amp supplies in the first place.
15:18:11 <Audiopulse> Now ... on the hind-sight it might just stretch out the gameplay too much and make it all too boring, but it may be worth a try.
15:31:06 <Audiopulse> Prices for new industries might have to be readjusted as well. I dont know if thats something you can do.
15:40:56 <Alberth> yes, use a basecost modification newgrf
15:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> if you make a new industry set anyway, you can set the prices for each industry individually
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16:00:59 <argoneus> when you have a timetabled bus service
16:01:04 <argoneus> and you want to add another station
16:01:12 <argoneus> should you send all buses to depot and then autofill again or just autofill?
16:01:22 <argoneus> im wondering how to do this without breaking everyting
16:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i would just estimate the time and put it in manually
16:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but you have to put new vehicles into the gap and/or redistribute the start times anyway, so the whole thing gets disrupted either way
16:16:57 <argoneus> is there a hotkey to change time in timetable?
16:20:50 <Audiopulse> Not true... keep CTRL pressed while you click "Starting Date" and it automatically accounts for the number of vehicles
16:21:49 <Audiopulse> its been a while since i got myself into timetables, but i just CTRL-pressed Autofill, let it do its magic and then CTRL-press Start-date
16:22:10 <Audiopulse> Worked like a charm back in 1.4 - havent really used it since then.
16:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> in theory, yes. but there may be ways how the separation puts dates way into the future and vehicles just keep clogging the start station
16:31:42 <Audiopulse> No sucht thing as a foolproof mechanic in TTD, huh? :D
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16:48:51 <argoneus> timetabling trains with implicit orders is a pain
16:49:05 <argoneus> i cant figure out how to separate passenger trains going through several stations
16:49:13 <argoneus> someone here told me to make very sparse signals
16:49:17 <argoneus> but that seems kinda awkward
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16:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could also make the orders explicit
17:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <Audiopulse> No sucht thing as a foolproof mechanic in TTD, huh? :D <-- if you make something foolproof, someone invents a bigger fool
17:13:33 <argoneus> I wish there was an easy way to mirror orders
17:13:41 <argoneus> like A->B->C->D->C->B->A
18:03:28 <argoneus> timetabling is still magic
18:03:42 <argoneus> is there an easy way to see how long it takes a vehicle to load/unload everything?
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18:11:20 <Alberth> worst case is easy, that's "inifinite"
18:11:42 <argoneus> can't argue with that
18:12:57 <Alberth> I tend to use a few hundred ticks, together with the slack, it works out nicely, in general
18:24:49 <Sylf> some slow loading train takes 1000+ ticks, especially passenger/main trains that do both unloading and loading at a same station
18:27:33 <Wolf01> why does the postgres upgrade guide tells one to do stuff which does not even exists in the face of the planet?
18:29:03 <Wolf01> like running a shell with "postgres" user
18:29:08 <peter1138> sudo -u postgres -s
18:29:21 <Wolf01> I don't have any postgres user :|
18:29:35 <peter1138> then you don't have postgres
18:29:58 <peter1138> running as root or something horrible?
18:31:11 <Wolf01> no, just the plain basic install, I didn't even touch the pg_hba.conf as I only need to run it locally
18:31:45 <peter1138> plain basic install makes a postgres user on all my systems
18:33:16 <Wolf01> if it needs to configure some stuff, the installer must configure that stuff, the installer let me just chose a password to connect to the server engine, but I don't have any system user
18:33:40 <peter1138> are you doing something horrible like running it on windows then?
18:33:47 <peter1138> though even then i think it made a user
18:33:52 <peter1138> but yeah, nobody uses that
18:34:09 <peter1138> everyone's all in love with sql server express on windows
18:34:19 <peter1138> all my postgreses are on debian of course
18:34:42 <Wolf01> last time I dumped all the databases and imported in the new engine, this time I wanted to try with pg_upgrade
18:39:50 <Wolf01> it's what I'm doing that now too
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18:59:06 <peter1138> yeah, that's the surefire way of not losing everything
18:59:46 <peter1138> hmm, maybe i should consolidate my databases
19:00:01 <argoneus> timetabling is so tedious and boring
19:00:04 <peter1138> i tend to just deploy a container for somethig and include its own postgres
19:00:10 <argoneus> after timetabling one big city I don't feel like doing passengers anymore
19:00:40 <peter1138> if i use a central server it'll be much easier to set up a replication slave, eg
19:06:14 <Wolf01> tomorrow I could start my new wonderful job as a freelance
19:45:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27358 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2015-08-02 19:45:14 +0200 )
19:45:21 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:22 <DorpsGek> catalan - 25 changes by juanjo
20:14:02 <Eddi|zuHause> <argoneus> is there an easy way to see how long it takes a vehicle to load/unload everything? <-- each loading step is 40 ticks for trains and road vehicles (planes and ships are shorter), and while the size of the loading step is not listed in the buy menu, it's fairly easy to figure out. so capacity/(loading steps)*2*40 in ticks, or /74 for days
20:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> default loading step is 5 pieces of cargo, btw
20:19:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but NewGRFs can freely change that
20:24:31 <frosch123> "Factorio's railway system works basically exactly the block signals in Open Traffic Tycoon Deluxe" <- unsubbed :p
20:25:10 <frosch123> "If you ever played that game you will find some elements also in Factorio. If not, you can learn from their documentation. " <- aw, should have copied the next sentence as well :)
20:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like someone who played each game for half an hour
20:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> like journalists making an interview with you and then spelling your name wrong
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20:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> also, shortening the sentences you made and thereby twisting the point you were trying to make
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23:10:37 <Audiopulse_> "Your computer is too slow to keep up with the server"
23:10:50 <Audiopulse_> Haha... did not expect that from a game as TT :D
23:11:46 <Taede> you'd be surprised how much a modern cpu can struggle
23:11:54 <FLHerne> Audiopulse_: OTTD can be a lot more resource-consuming than it looks
23:12:13 <ST2> [21:56:59] *** Audiopulse quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds) <<-- probably same dc that caused you ping timout here ^^
23:12:45 <ST2> and irc is lot lesser consummer that OpenTTD ^^
23:12:45 <Audiopulse_> Yeah, i saw it :9
23:12:48 <FLHerne> Audiopulse_: Remember that current maps can be 250x bigger than those in the original game
23:13:10 <FLHerne> Tens of times more vehicles
23:13:12 <Audiopulse_> yes yes - plus im playing on a Road-heavy server
23:13:35 <Audiopulse_> The culprit is probably the rendering im doing at the side.
23:14:22 <ST2> I guess it's all about: what happens ingame <-> what client gets/shows
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