IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-05-18
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08:20:06 <andythenorth> I very broke FIRS
08:26:27 <Supercheese> just break it more until it's fixed
08:38:11 <andythenorth> I have unbroken most of it
08:38:25 <andythenorth> but not default vehicles :(
08:38:41 <Supercheese> No One™ uses default vehicles
08:40:06 <andythenorth> also, endless bug reports would happen
08:40:15 <andythenorth> of “FIRS is broken”
08:45:37 <andythenorth> BEER doesn’t work
08:45:41 <andythenorth> that was one of my bugs
08:45:55 <andythenorth> string literal needs enclosed in quotes
09:04:25 <andythenorth> FIRS 1.4.4 breaks default vehicles too
09:04:30 <andythenorth> just less completely
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14:46:38 <V453000> :D how do I cd to a different disk in windows command line?
14:47:17 <V453000> oh, so reverse all smileys? :P
14:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you did it wrong
14:49:12 <V453000> both with "" and without
14:49:22 <__ln__> that also works, but it doesn't do what you expect
14:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but you need to write "E:" without cd, and without anything else
14:49:50 <V453000> that throws an error :d
14:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: each drive has its own working directory, so you can change the working directory without being on the drive, but you need to switch to the drive to make that working directory your current working directory
14:53:25 <V453000> yeah, I noticed that once I switched to that drive, I was immediately in the folder I tried to cd all the time
14:54:57 <supermop> off to seinfeld and bed
15:13:06 <Eddi|zuHause> either the emojic 8 ball is broken, or i just have no proper font installed
15:18:27 <V453000> and I just managed to load all grass slopes as 100% alpha and wondered why it shitborked the game
15:38:37 <V453000> hm, brick size 20cm out of 1000cm tile is way too small
15:40:48 <peter1138> Drive letters, silly Windows.
15:40:54 <peter1138> They're not even drives, they're partitions :S
15:41:09 <V453000> me haz 1 partition per disk atm :P
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17:25:42 <argoneus> do you know what the highest mountain on earth was before they discovered mount everest
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17:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> mount everest isn't the highest mountain on earth
17:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (from base to top)
17:27:16 <argoneus> go back to your trains guys
17:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry to spoil your trick question :p
17:28:14 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: you are a party pooper!
17:28:27 <argoneus> I'll build railroads over your roads
17:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a road crossing patch. just for that
17:29:00 <argoneus> you are a fucking party pooper
17:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you are going in circles.
17:29:14 <argoneus> I can't even take petty revenge
17:29:25 <argoneus> I just tried to approach it from another angle
17:29:28 <argoneus> but that's blocked off too
17:31:09 * krinn checking if he has join #triviaandanger
17:31:29 <Alberth> #openttd carries many names :p
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17:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the channel of many names
17:32:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (i may have watched too much game of thrones)
17:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (i do not recognize that there is a thing as "too much game of thrones")
17:34:07 <krinn> if you start calling anyone bugging you lanister...
17:34:50 <Alberth> inevitably, there will be too much game of thrones, although it may be a while before that happens
17:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> before i close my eyes at night i list the names of all people that wronged me.
17:46:04 <argoneus> do you listen to isis music to
17:47:32 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 32 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 28 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
17:48:36 <argoneus> at least he left with a smile on his face
17:54:04 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i'm no more doing that, and my insomnia has stopped
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18:07:07 <DorpsGek> Flygon: drac_boy was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 26 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <drac_boy> any of you know what they call these smaller steam locomotive that had vertical boilers instead? the name seem to not come to me :-s
18:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> so you're answering questions from 2 weeks ago, to people who are not here, now?
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18:25:10 <DorpsGek> Sacro: dragonhorseboy was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 11 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 19 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <dragonhorseboy> going for now..have fun :p
18:25:36 <Sacro> le sigh, those where the days
18:25:40 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Eddi|zuHause2 was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 53 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause2> did you mean "two months"? :p
18:25:47 <Sacro> He's been gone ages too
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20:33:06 <V453000> how does the tree animation cycle work?
20:33:22 <V453000> is the amount of ticks between stages somewhat consistent?
20:33:36 <V453000> is stage 4 there for longest? (The main mature tree)
20:39:38 <frosch123> it wouldn't be ttd if the intervals wouldn't have random length
20:40:53 <V453000> so answer is: quit being an idiot, make 3 growing stages, one grown stage, and 3 dying stages, just like the original, no fancy shi
20:42:01 <frosch123> generally it has to decide between A) grow a new tree on the tile, B) grow a new tree on a neighbour tile, or C) kill a tree on the current tile
20:42:06 <frosch123> each with chance 1/3
20:43:03 <frosch123> if a tree grows or dies on a tile that takes 3 cycles
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20:43:09 <frosch123> then it restarts the decision
20:44:27 <frosch123> V453000: are you aware that each tile has multiple trees? the growing/dieing cycle only applies to one of them
20:44:33 <frosch123> the rest of them stays constant
20:45:03 <V453000> I am just wondering about the tree sprites :P
20:45:24 <V453000> ie, whether it is okay to only define 2 growing, 1 adult, 4 dying stages for example
20:45:58 <andythenorth> default vehicles?
20:46:07 <frosch123> the amount of growth stages is fixed
20:46:13 <frosch123> you can only make stages look the same
20:46:17 <frosch123> but you cannot add stages
20:46:44 <V453000> also, I made a major graphical revelation today:
20:47:05 <V453000> when I do WTF models, OpenTTD scale does not seem weird (example, slugs)
20:47:16 <V453000> when I do realistic vehicles, the scale always looks bad
20:47:27 <V453000> suggested solution-> do WTF
20:48:39 <andythenorth> it took you this long to figure that out? :o
20:48:53 <andythenorth> my only WTF is why you didn’t do WTF earlier
21:10:51 <Alberth> doesn't it? It has lots of bright happy colours already
21:12:49 <V453000> I hate how it looks btw
21:13:32 <Alberth> the curse of progress in artistic abilities :)
21:13:49 <Alberth> but wtf, time for nuts2
21:14:40 <V453000> nah I can still continue NUTS1 :P
21:15:05 <V453000> brix for now though :)
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22:10:44 <andythenorth> V453000: does YETI break default vehicles?
22:14:57 <frosch123> you mean beyond default vehicles not having vehicles for new cargos?
22:15:27 <andythenorth> FIRS does worst than that
22:16:19 <andythenorth> coal in copper ore car
22:16:23 <andythenorth> engineering supplies in water car
22:16:36 <andythenorth> clay in wood truck
22:17:45 <frosch123> hmm, why was the cargo limit considered a hard limit again?
22:21:22 * andythenorth could have FIRS disable default vehicles
22:21:30 <andythenorth> or refuse to load
22:21:48 <frosch123> you cannot fix them without making them available
22:22:09 <frosch123> we already have a warning if there are no vehicles transporting cargo X
22:22:23 <frosch123> but ofc you could disable default vehicles to press the issue :p
22:22:50 <andythenorth> for example, I didn’t use newgrf for first ~2 years of playing openttd
22:22:57 <andythenorth> because I thought they were dangerous hacks
22:23:14 <andythenorth> to an inexperienced player, FIRS looks like a broken hack
22:24:12 <frosch123> well, we need newgrf presets on bananas :)
22:24:27 <frosch123> then only allow advanced users to add individual grfs
22:26:54 <frosch123> hmm, i don't remember the reasoing for the cargo limit
22:27:01 <frosch123> increase it to 250 total, 128 per grf? :p
22:27:15 <frosch123> then we can reinvent regearing, because you do not have to reserve slots :p
22:27:37 <andythenorth> all kinds of evil hacks
22:28:14 <frosch123> one cargo per industry should be fine, right? :p
22:28:31 <andythenorth> nobody could abuse this
22:28:41 * andythenorth assumed there was some hard limit on this
22:29:17 <frosch123> the hard limits are newgrf variables, map array and command parameters
22:29:31 <frosch123> newgrf all use translated bits, which are already in 8bit range
22:29:38 <frosch123> map array does not store cargos
22:29:53 <frosch123> and command parameters with cargoid are rare, and likely have enough free bits
22:30:22 <frosch123> basically only bit stuffing implies limits
22:32:47 <andythenorth> 128 per grf? o_O
22:33:09 <andythenorth> I seriously think that without the 32 cargo limit, FIRS would have become an unworkable monster
22:33:13 <andythenorth> instead of a monster on a leash
22:33:21 <frosch123> well, ideally you would get rid of the global reservation
22:33:31 <frosch123> so you do not conflict with passenger, mail and regearing slots
22:35:31 <andythenorth> alternatively, is it feasible to have default vehicles use cargo labels?
22:36:07 <frosch123> they already kind of do
22:36:39 <frosch123> but only the refittable ones
22:36:47 <frosch123> i.e. engines, ships and aircraftr
22:36:58 <frosch123> for rv and train wagons cargo labels and classes make no sense
22:37:13 <frosch123> because you have individual wagons for cargos
22:37:26 <frosch123> and there is no obvious way how to assign new cargos to old wagons
22:37:31 <andythenorth> labels would decouple them from cargo slots though
22:37:37 <frosch123> unless we add some weird cargo property :p
22:38:03 * andythenorth considered some mapping that is set by the newgrf cargos
22:38:26 <andythenorth> isn’t there some legacy property that kind of does that?
22:38:54 <frosch123> possibly property 08, but it is not used like that
22:39:08 <frosch123> and the graphics would fail in any case
22:39:26 <frosch123> alternatively we could make the box van carry everything :)
22:39:45 <frosch123> i.e. the closed ones :p
22:40:24 <andythenorth> 128 cargos would open up some possibilities, but I’m not sure I like them :)
22:40:45 <frosch123> well, my goal would be to have more cargos in total than per grf
22:40:52 <andythenorth> that would make sense
22:40:53 <frosch123> so we can get rid of the conflicts maybe
22:42:17 <andythenorth> it’s a can of worms
22:42:45 <frosch123> 32 per grf, with the ability to not require a slot for mail/pax in every grf
22:43:18 <andythenorth> and labels as the common link?
22:43:44 <andythenorth> so if two grfs define COAL, are they treated as same cargo?
22:43:49 <andythenorth> or just interchangeable?
22:43:58 <frosch123> second COAL overwrites first COAL
22:44:30 <andythenorth> so the label is unique across all active grfs?
22:44:59 <frosch123> but SCRP and SCMT would be separate :p
22:45:07 <frosch123> andythenorth: basically like railtypes
22:45:27 <frosch123> you request a slot for a label, and you get one
22:45:43 <frosch123> within the grf you use local slots, which do not matter for anything
22:45:52 <andythenorth> and you may ask for up to 32 slots
22:46:16 <frosch123> yes, or whatever number
22:46:38 <andythenorth> it will end up at 128
22:46:53 <andythenorth> we’ll just have to learn not to eat all the pies
22:48:19 <frosch123> maybe it would be a grfv9 thing though
22:48:36 <andythenorth> maybe new FIRS is a grfv9 thing :)
22:48:48 <andythenorth> when is grfv9? o_O
22:49:03 <frosch123> we need some method to replace original cargos or something
22:49:11 <frosch123> like a "substitute" property
22:49:29 <frosch123> unless we want to do the same magic as with vehicles
22:49:46 <frosch123> cargo slots 0-31 replace original ones, 32-63 are new ones :p
22:50:27 <frosch123> andythenorth: what do you expect follows grfv8?
22:50:54 <frosch123> i mean, i see some questions about what would follow grfv9 :p
22:52:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, don't worry. the current grfv9 list is just a list of random grumbling :)
22:52:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: no uppercase "V"
22:53:31 <frosch123> did you guess the link or something silly?
22:54:19 <andythenorth> hmm, you had an industry window text proposal somewhere?
22:54:31 <frosch123> likely on the "new callback results" page
22:54:49 <frosch123> i think there are some intersections between those two pages
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22:55:48 <andythenorth> industry special effects still lives as a dream :D
22:56:21 <frosch123> actually, "it can't be that hard" :p
22:56:33 <andythenorth> not even sure it adds much :)
22:56:48 <andythenorth> might make interesting forests
22:57:01 <frosch123> manually placing objects is boring
22:57:11 <frosch123> so, i hope industries would build them for me :p
23:00:17 * andythenorth hopes for ponies
23:02:04 <andythenorth> isolated cargos, industry window text
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23:20:20 <Fahrradkette> hi guys. I just installed openttd on debian 8 (jessie) using the packet manager. All seems to run fine except for the audio part, I often hear distorting sounds....how can I tell openttd which audio interface to use?
23:32:58 <Fahrradkette> correction: the sounds do play without distortion but not the music
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