IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-03-18
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00:00:13 <Samu> i will have 3 bits free for the foreseeable future :(
00:00:45 <chillcore> there are so many unused ones ...
00:12:22 <Samu> disable the Story Book popup every January
00:12:36 <Samu> it is annoying when I run the game over 100 years
00:14:01 <Samu> and I'd like to know the real transported amount in the goal list
00:14:06 <chillcore> maybe post suggestions in 'that' thread where they will be seen?
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00:16:08 * chillcore postpones complete rewrite till tomorrow
00:16:25 <chillcore> nappy time as I have to get up early
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00:31:43 <Samu> question, why is that I am always downloading Feca Goal Games as an upgrade?
00:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few oddities with version detection
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04:28:45 <Compu> hello does anyone have any information about the 504 errors from openttd.org?
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04:33:34 <CompuDesktop> is anyone actually here?
04:38:10 <Supercheese> wiki still works, main page seems down
04:38:41 <Supercheese> I can't say why though
04:39:34 <CompuDesktop> i emailed info@openttd.org
04:40:39 <Supercheese> just have to wait for the admin(s), I suspect they are yet sleeping
04:41:24 <CompuDesktop> sleep is for the weak
04:44:21 <CompuDesktop> Supercheese: and im stuck on 1.3.3 until they fix the site
04:44:36 <Supercheese> could compile your own version
04:44:39 <Supercheese> svn may still be up
04:45:02 <CompuDesktop> Supercheese: do they have a github
04:45:07 <CompuDesktop> and i dont want to compile
04:47:03 <ST2> note: latest stable is 1.4.4 (just in case :P)
04:49:43 <CompuDesktop> ST2: thanks so much, that worked, and yes i know how stable and beta stuff works
04:50:14 <CompuDesktop> now i can join the reddit openttd server
04:51:42 <Supercheese> doesn't reddit have its own client?
04:52:08 <Supercheese> ah yes and it uses stable as well
05:00:50 <CompuDesktop> Supercheese: yeah but i want to go on the vanilla and newgrf servers
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06:40:35 <CompuDesktop> hey if anyone is still here, is there a way for me to add music to the openttd jukebox? like custom music?
06:44:08 <Supercheese> I think you need to make a sound pack... but really, just play your favorite music using a different player in the background
06:44:14 <Supercheese> it is a zillion and five times easier
06:57:54 <CompuDesktop> my computer is lagging to much, i dont have the best computer
06:58:52 <ST2> openttd causing it? (I think a pertinent question ^^)
07:01:18 <peter1138> OpenTTD only plays MIDI files.
07:01:38 <CompuDesktop> its causing it in the sense that if i wasnt running openttd i could play music
07:01:49 <CompuDesktop> peter1138: i have a few midis
07:01:56 <peter1138> And then, if your computer can't cope with playing music in a separate player, why should it cope playing it anywhere else?
07:02:09 <CompuDesktop> it can handle the in game music
07:02:14 <ST2> if OpenTTD is the cause then I bet it's map size/vehicles ingame, etc
07:02:31 <CompuDesktop> i have a rather crappy desktop running vista
07:02:40 <CompuDesktop> and yes i know "upgrade blah blah"
07:02:45 <CompuDesktop> i dont have the money
07:03:34 <CompuDesktop> openttd lags just being in the add ons install menu
07:04:44 <CompuDesktop> and the map im playing in is something like 1000x2000
07:04:46 <ST2> as an experience, try to join other MP games, with smaller maps and no newgrf's, or start new SP game in same conditions
07:04:58 <CompuDesktop> and this is a vanilla game
07:05:20 <CompuDesktop> ST2: 1 sec i have a system hardware stats file
07:07:32 <ST2> windows Vista dnt help there
07:07:51 <ST2> and openttd should run fine, without issues
07:08:09 <CompuDesktop> well i have firefox running
07:08:12 <peter1138> 4GB RAM and dual core 3 GHz is plenty.
07:08:25 <peter1138> But you want a 64bit OS really.
07:09:10 <CompuDesktop> and dropbox, avast, screencloud, logitech mouse and keyboard stuffs, oh and opendns updater
07:09:30 <CompuDesktop> peter1138: sorry, came with this OS
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07:13:49 <ST2> cpu speed is more important for openttd that graphics cards (I think ^^)
07:14:07 <ST2> especially with big/crowded maps
07:14:34 <peter1138> 1024x2048 is a large map
07:14:44 <peter1138> So being slow is not surprising.
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07:15:13 <Supercheese> jeez that's quite a map
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07:15:29 <ST2> as I was telling to CompuDesktop, to he try join some server with a 512x512, for example
07:15:35 <Supercheese> I just started a 512x256 and it's plenty
07:16:31 <supermop> 512^2 keeps be busy far longer than i'd care to play a game anyway
07:16:50 <CompuDesktop> its the reddit vanilla server map
07:17:44 <supermop> i almost never play a game with one dimension of 2048, when i do its mostly just water or something
07:18:03 <ST2> well, sometimes we get servers "eating" 1GB+ RAM and cpu @ ~30%
07:18:29 <ST2> but smaller are piece of cake (server and client side :)
07:19:39 <supermop> after spending the last 36 hours frantically designing a stupid house for my boss i now feel like i can divert myself for a few hours
07:19:53 <supermop> not sure what if anything to do next on roads though
07:20:24 <peter1138> Design it with Lego.
07:20:29 <supermop> no coder is forthcoming, so i am loathe to draw up more exotic alternate sprites for the time being
07:20:40 <ST2> 7:15 am here and left work 1 hour ago... after 20 working hours, so yeah, I understand you too ^^
07:20:46 <supermop> if there was an easy to use lego modelling software
07:21:22 <supermop> the worst part is that it is intetionally a not very good house for proof of concept
07:21:44 <chillcore> if "lanscape grid html" mentiones bits being inherited does that mean the free bits too?
07:22:03 <supermop> so i spent hours last night walking back design choices with my boss to make it more like the type of house we are aiming to represent
07:23:12 <ST2> btw, openttd.org still giving 504's (I have no idea who can fix it - I got an alternative solution for CompuDesktop download 1.4.4 :)
07:23:34 <CompuDesktop> ST2: yep and working great
07:32:48 <supermop> making all those square road tiles past few days reminded me so much of grey lego road baseplates
07:33:04 <supermop> could really use a lego baseset
07:33:32 <supermop> but then it should be newgrfs instead, so you could also add space, etc
07:33:59 <supermop> also lego train tracks would look so sad without curved pieces
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07:36:30 <Supercheese> curved pieces would be technically possible IIRC, just a boatload of work
07:45:33 <supermop> also set capacity of airplanes to like 4 pax
07:51:30 <supermop> the old lego town airport from when i was a kid came with a jet
07:51:49 <supermop> 4 bumps wide, it carried one pilot and 4 passengers
07:52:13 <supermop> the side opened like a clamshell to load
07:56:24 <supermop> now im looking through tons of photos of the old lego monorail system for town and space
07:56:37 <supermop> gah i wanted that so bad as a kid
08:05:34 <supermop> what could have been....
08:09:01 <supermop> i had no idea the was a trend of people building absurd interpretations of the old lego monorail
08:09:29 <supermop> anyway what to do now? bus stops? stations?
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08:12:12 <argoneus> good morning train friends
08:12:50 <supermop> Ogdenville would be good name for a monorail set
08:17:05 <CompuDesktop> reddit vanilla server seems to have crashed
08:17:44 <Pikkaphone> supermop: why does your boss need a stupid house?
08:19:40 <Pikkaphone> Oh I see, I read more log. :)
08:21:05 <supermop> specifics may be covered by NDA for now
08:21:15 <supermop> but basically to show that we can
08:23:29 <CompuDesktop> my computer is getting rather warm while playing this
08:34:29 <chillcore> supermop: bus/tram stops would kinda make sense following tramtracks and roads?
08:35:37 <chillcore> although stations could be fun too since they are a thing of their own?
09:12:15 <chillcore> hmm this logitech stuffs is rediculous ... the software must be running or programmable keys do not work ... that means I do not have to bother setting things up since it will not work on linux anyways
09:14:37 <chillcore> also "you agree that we may collect, maintain, processand diagnostic, technical and related info, including but not limited to info about your product, computer system, ans application software, product support, peripherals and other related devices ... tralalalalala"
09:14:49 <chillcore> dafuq dudes I bought a keyboard ...
09:15:08 * chillcore has bought the last piece of logitech hardware ever
09:15:23 <Supercheese> just block the program from accessing anything it shouldn't be
09:15:46 <chillcore> as if that helps ... stupid americans and their backdoors
09:16:33 <Supercheese> Isn't Logitech Swiss?
09:16:56 <chillcore> thing is I can not even configure the shizz wthout connectng onliine and the special buttons do not work when the prog s not runningand
09:17:36 <chillcore> at least my mouse has a memory buit in so it works on linux too
09:17:47 <chillcore> but only after configuring in windoze
09:18:48 <chillcore> these companies will do everything to get a hold of your nfo and habits
09:19:02 <chillcore> seling personal data is the biggest revenue it seems these days
09:19:15 <chillcore> why do you think steam games are so cheap?
09:19:41 <chillcore> anyhoo ... *ranting mode off*
09:20:27 <chillcore> steam changed their TOS too ... again ... it is services now ... not software no more
09:20:41 <chillcore> don't agree? feel free to stop using your games
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09:20:50 <Supercheese> yeah I stopped using Steam years ago
09:21:44 <chillcore> I still update KSP that is it ... 1 game out of 55 ... such a waste of money
09:22:32 <chillcore> already replaced 20 of them with console versions
09:22:47 <chillcore> eg farcry 3 ... just works no registration needed
09:23:15 <chillcore> anyhoo I am rambling again ...
09:25:14 <chillcore> by stupid americans I meant stupid american corporates and their lust for power not the normal peeps who are victims of the dictatorship
09:38:02 <chillcore> well at least the backlighting works as intended
09:38:27 * chillcore closes logitech site and goes back to doing sane stuffs
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13:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> <chillcore> dafuq dudes I bought a keyboard ... <-- that basically means "i agree that you installed a keylogger and spyware"
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14:22:36 <peter1138> Don't go there then!
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14:49:04 <UukGoblin> one thing that annoys me greatly is that delivering cargo from far away is much more profitable than delivering the same cargo from a nearby source
14:49:21 <UukGoblin> it's kinda messed up like real world
14:49:29 <UukGoblin> we should promote local produce!
14:50:06 <andythenorth> can you suggest a better calculation?
14:50:20 <andythenorth> there are acres of forum threads about it, but no solution
14:50:23 <UukGoblin> nah, I was hoping maybe someone else did ;-)
14:50:44 <andythenorth> the logical conclusion is that transporting 1 tile should pay most
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14:50:55 <andythenorth> but that seems to not be a popular suggestion
14:51:09 <andythenorth> for some reason, players dislike both long routes and short routes
14:51:17 <andythenorth> this makes designing any improvement a bit tricky
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14:54:48 <qwebirc118> And I'm looking for the newest version for MAC OS
14:54:53 <andythenorth> looks down to me
14:55:08 <andythenorth> probably will come back
14:56:38 <qwebirc118> couldnt find mac OS
14:58:52 <UukGoblin> andythenorth, I was thinking something along the lines of cargo having a price based on supply/demand
14:59:13 <UukGoblin> if a cargo is scarce in a region, it should make sense to transport it from far, because its price in that region would be high
14:59:43 <andythenorth> in theory that could be done, at least per town
14:59:51 <andythenorth> there is a newgrf town spec with storage
15:00:01 <andythenorth> and there’s a custom cargo profit calculation for newgrf cargos
15:00:39 <UukGoblin> so basically we need a volunteer to make it into a nice sensible mod :-)
15:02:00 <Samu> suddenly, a surprise factory pop ups
15:02:27 <andythenorth> there’s a factory making surprises? :o
15:02:49 <Samu> yeah, it ruined my trucks yesterday
15:02:55 <UukGoblin> Samu, I'm playing A Song of Ice and Fire scenario, and I now have two factories popped up on The Wall
15:03:13 <UukGoblin> what a place to put them on
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15:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> there’s a factory making surprises? :o <- something exciting, something to play with, and chocolate?
15:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's a slogan they advertised kinder eggs with in the 90s)
16:09:50 <Samu> build 2 airports and have an aircraft going to them
16:10:16 <Samu> then, destroy one of the airports when the aircraft isn't in there, and build a helistation
16:10:46 <Samu> when the aircraft is coming back to the now helistation
16:10:58 <Samu> it can't land, that's normal, I know
16:11:16 <Samu> but when you order it to go to hangar, it still tries to get to the helistation hangar
16:11:33 <Samu> shouldn't it pick another hangar instead?
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16:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: no, hangar is always chosen from the current destination
16:28:59 <Samu> hmm but the hangar can only build aircraft
16:30:08 <Samu> it's an helicopter only hangar
16:31:02 <Samu> i thought it wouldn't be eligible for maintenance
16:32:20 <Samu> like trams depots vs road depots, i guess
16:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it works differently
16:35:00 <Samu> electric rail vs not-electric rail depots?
16:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> is that a question?
16:38:10 <Samu> it works correctly with them
16:38:23 <Samu> why wouldn't it work for the different hangar types?
16:39:40 <Alberth> a hangar is not a depot?
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16:40:14 <LordAro> TrueBrain: stuff broke
16:41:43 <LordAro> all subdomains except bananas appear to be working though
16:42:04 <UukGoblin> what compiles NewGRFs?
16:43:17 <Alberth> you'll like NML a lot more :)
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16:49:00 <UukGoblin> oh yes, looking at the example one - definitely
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17:38:35 <TrueBrain> LordAro: sounds weird, as main website and BaNaNaS run on the same django instance :P
17:40:48 <TrueBrain> seems django was taking a piss
17:40:53 <TrueBrain> I told him to get back here immediatly
17:41:07 <TrueBrain> LordAro: FYI, reports like "all subdomains" make me giggle
17:41:10 <TrueBrain> as you dont know all subdomains
17:41:17 <TrueBrain> so that is a false statement in every possible way :P
17:41:28 <TrueBrain> but as a nice piece of info, wiki and bugs did run fine :)
17:41:40 <LordAro> i thought about writing something like that when i wrote it :p
17:41:50 <TrueBrain> but tnx for the report; seems django just got stuck
17:41:53 <TrueBrain> it tends to do that :)
17:42:29 <LordAro> for instance, i knew i couldn't remember the bamboo subdomain
17:42:52 <TrueBrain> if wiki. works and www. doesnt, django is down :)
17:43:03 <TrueBrain> and farm.openttd.org is where the CF is at :)
17:43:51 <TrueBrain> meh, I rolled over the django instance before checking the logs
17:43:56 <TrueBrain> only to realise someone wrote > instead of >>
17:47:55 <andythenorth> developers was up too
17:48:05 <andythenorth> including a page from some guy called TrueBrain, listing mirrors
17:51:50 <TrueBrain> binaries.openttd.org would have been up too :P
17:51:56 <TrueBrain> it distributed people automatically :)
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18:24:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: you wrote a script to parse eints commits for changelogs?
18:25:08 * andythenorth prepping Iron Horse release
18:27:12 <Alberth> it gets automagically collected with nightlies or bundles or so
18:30:14 <andythenorth> ok, so I can stop crediting people in the changelog
18:32:44 <Alberth> just copy/paste that text :)
18:33:40 <andythenorth> is it ‘all time’ or ‘since last tag'?
18:33:43 * andythenorth assumes ‘all time'
18:35:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's since eints uses that commit message format :p
18:41:43 * andythenorth can no longer be bothered to list individual language updates :P
18:44:04 <Samu> bool river = GetWaterClass(tile) ? WATER_CLASS_RIVER : 0;
18:45:18 <Samu> Warning 1 warning C4800: 'int' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning) c:\openttd\trunk\src\water_cmd.cpp 422 1 openttd
18:45:42 <Samu> and a warning on top of it
18:45:59 <Alberth> yeah, I am sure 0 is not a boolean, and I have strong doubts about WATER_CLASS_RIVER too :)
18:46:07 <frosch123> Sylf: TrueBrain rather wants to give you a cookie on the next ottd meeting, than reactivate the mirror index pages :)
18:49:04 <peter1138> Samu, yeah, it means what it says...
18:49:18 <TrueBrain> omg, since when do things mean what they say?
18:50:45 <Alberth> no worries, it's just to confuse you more
18:51:19 <Samu> bool river = GetWaterClass(tile) ? WATER_CLASS_RIVER==true : false;
18:51:40 <peter1138> Samu, try some logic.
18:51:49 <TrueBrain> best statement of the day :D
18:53:42 <Samu> you guys are making me laugh for some reason
18:53:54 <TrueBrain> only fair; you make me laugh too
19:02:13 <Samu> bool river = GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_RIVER;
19:02:23 <Samu> but i get assertion errors
19:02:37 <Samu> if i ignore the assertion, it works
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19:04:24 <Samu> if i build on river directly, no assertions
19:04:54 <Samu> if i build on land, two assertions
19:08:26 <Samu> i have an idea, gonna try this some other way
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19:18:53 <Alberth> hmm, I seem to have missed a regex ?
19:19:13 <Alberth> at least I remember you telling me about that?
19:20:19 <chillcore> the negative values patch ... but I am not using it for the moment because I have no clue how .... yet ;)
19:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> seems django was taking a piss <-- maybe you unchained him?
19:23:59 <chillcore> I'll explain in more detail in a bit alberth, if you want. just writing a reply to moki at the moment
19:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> great. moving on.
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19:33:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27195 /branches/1.5 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2015-03-18 20:33:34 +0100 )
19:33:40 <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Update: Documentation
19:35:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27196 tags/1.5.0-RC1/ (2015-03-18 20:35:49 +0100 )
19:37:43 <Samu> but it gives me assertions
19:38:46 * andythenorth just found a valid use for factory pattern :(
19:38:55 <andythenorth> at least I don’t have a factory factory
19:46:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: is there a news factory?
19:46:32 <frosch123> can you transform eddi into one?
19:46:52 <andythenorth> depends if he’s ducktyped
19:47:02 <andythenorth> if he won’t quack, then probably not
19:47:07 <tulsy> Can I suggest that it'd make more sense for the default for conditional orders to be 'Skip to order X if cargo equals 100%', rather than the current default which is 'Skip to order X if cargo equals 0'
19:47:31 <chillcore> Alberth: regex: as it is now you can enter a negative sign anywhere you want in a querrybox (and even multiple), the code is not adjusted to have ints there ... only uinst (despite the string saying "STR_JUST_INT")
19:48:13 <andythenorth> managed to avoid the factory
19:48:14 <chillcore> the few value in the setting that do have negative values all have little arrows that allow ou to select a negative sign
19:48:32 <chillcore> hence why I will need regex
19:48:44 <chillcore> ^^^ stilll needs to be fixed
19:49:09 <chillcore> so much to do ... so little time :P
19:49:26 <Alberth> hmm, regex sounds like huge overkill for a negative sign
19:49:52 <Alberth> no worries, you're not going to fix all the problems in the world :p
19:50:21 <chillcore> I had to explicetly allow negative signs because that was not there neither
19:50:47 <Alberth> yeah I remember that, but didn't look what you did in the end
19:51:05 <Alberth> as I have the same problem as you :p
19:51:09 * andythenorth wants more thread units
19:51:25 <chillcore> I did nothing yet, except for allowing a negative sign to be there :P
19:51:37 <chillcore> even 10 of them haha
19:51:37 <andythenorth> it’s over-rated, having a near silent laptop without excessive fan use, and 10 hour battery life in a tiny case
19:51:45 <Alberth> good enough for now, I guess
19:52:29 <andythenorth> moar thread units, moar faster compiling of Iron Horse
19:53:05 <Alberth> a 42" rack would nicely :p
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19:53:30 <Alberth> preferably somewhere at the other end of the street :)
19:53:32 <andythenorth> probably less portable
19:54:11 * andythenorth should set up network rendering :P
19:54:28 <andythenorth> it’s a map-reduce kind of approach anyway
19:54:53 <Samu> bool river = HasTileWaterClass(tile) && GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_RIVER;
19:55:04 <Samu> no assertions, no warnings
19:55:25 <chillcore> anyhoo today was a very interesting day ... my iPad had all applications deleted at some point (but not really) and the fans were disabled on my laptop when I booted it just before logging in here
19:55:56 <chillcore> *tinfoil hat on* maybe I talk too much
19:56:33 <chillcore> iPad is fixed after some messing about and fans are spinning happily :P
19:57:00 <chillcore> I found a nice spot for you to save the bit samu
19:57:37 <chillcore> I saw that ... I read most of the times before joining to see if I do not disrupt a big conversation if I start talking immediatly
19:58:02 <Samu> can't, there's industry tiles that uses it
19:58:25 <Samu> the station from the oil rig puts a 1 in there
19:58:44 <chillcore> hmm then why is it marked as free?
19:58:58 <chillcore> anyhoo you know more about them bits then me so its all good
19:59:00 <Samu> or actually, the industry tiles does it first, then a station goes up right after without affecting it
19:59:43 <tulsy> What language(s) is openTTD written in?
19:59:55 <chillcore> but cool that you have it stored now
20:01:54 <chillcore> Squirrel for scripts and AIs, NML/nfo for newgrf, c++ for openttd (some parts still in C)
20:03:07 <chillcore> details samu they matter A LOT, except for what you are doing. :P
20:03:18 <tulsy> So I asked a couple of times already, but it seems not to be getting any responses:
20:03:29 <tulsy> Wouldn't it it'd make more sense for the default for conditional orders to be 'Skip to order X if cargo equals 100%', rather than the current default which is 'Skip to order X if cargo equals 0'?
20:04:14 <tulsy> I'd offer to try and do this, but my lowly Java skills are low and irrelevant apparently =\
20:06:31 <Samu> the 1 indicates there is a cpmplete industry tile
20:07:18 <Samu> it's not related to station tiles though
20:08:24 <Alberth> tulsy: what if you tried to pick up something, but there wasn't any cargo?
20:08:33 <Alberth> ie both cases are reasonable
20:08:53 <Alberth> which means that any default will make 1/2 the people unhappy
20:08:57 <tulsy> but the order refers to the amount of cargo in the vehicle doesn't it? not the amount of waiting cargo
20:09:27 <Alberth> yes, you load at a station, if no cargo -> next loading station
20:09:32 <tulsy> sorry I said 'cargo' earlier, but i meant 'load'
20:10:02 <tulsy> the default is 'If load = 0, skip to X', but I've never seen how that could be useful
20:10:08 <Alberth> load 100% is easy, just specify full load :)
20:10:17 <tulsy> Whereas I often use 'if load = 100, go to X'
20:10:38 <Alberth> oh, I have used it to skip some far away delivery stations
20:10:46 <tulsy> well what I do, and this is arguably not optimal, is send a train down the line, get it to full up along the way, and when its full start to head back
20:11:01 <Alberth> both are valid cases imho
20:11:13 <Alberth> but you can have only one default
20:11:17 <tulsy> rather than go all the way to the end although it's already full, because that reduces the payment
20:11:23 <chillcore> ye but peeps also skip at 90 because stoppig for just 10% is not worth it ... and so many other reasons
20:11:41 <chillcore> ask 100 peeps and you get 200 different answers :P
20:12:12 <UukGoblin> so in Cargo's 'profit' callback I get extra_callback_info2 with time spent en-route, the amount of cargo delivered and the manhattan distance it was transported. But I guess I won't be able to get to information about the accepting industry from that callback? I'm thinking to calculate income based on how far an industry is from other industries
20:12:28 <Alberth> tulsy: a common mistake is that people think everybody plays the game in the same way as they do
20:13:05 <tulsy> Well I'm pretty sure I saw the same thing noted on the Wiki, which is why I came here to raise it
20:13:09 <Alberth> I think it's much closer to the opposite
20:13:43 <Alberth> hmm, someone wrote it a the wiki, must be true then :)
20:13:54 <tulsy> well they didnt write exactly that
20:14:02 <tulsy> but they do the same thing that I do
20:14:25 <chillcore> I have this one game where I switch driving side three times ... just for giggles :P
20:14:28 <tulsy> I actually wanted to add that to the wiki, but didnt have time to sign up etc yet
20:14:28 <Alberth> I have done what you do too
20:15:15 <Alberth> but that doesn't make one default much better than another one
20:15:41 <tulsy> Yea, I mean the thing is, I can't think of any situation where you _would_ want the 'if load = 0, skip to X' order?
20:16:12 <Alberth> I loaded at a station, and drive to several customers, returning when I am empty?
20:16:13 <tulsy> I'm not sure how that could be used basically, any ideas?
20:16:38 <frosch123> add a favorites menu, which collects the conditional orders you use, and allow binding them to hotkeys :)
20:17:00 <tulsy> zomg pls explain that more
20:17:08 <tulsy> because that would be super handy
20:17:23 <chillcore> tulsy you may want to skip a delivery order if the cargo bay is empty
20:17:34 <Alberth> tulsy: basically, make it more flexible so everybody can have his/her own set of defaults
20:17:41 <frosch123> sorry, that was a suggestion for a patch, not something that exists already
20:18:17 <tulsy> Chilcore: yea but it doesn't relate to cargo, it relates to the load on the vehicle. I don;t think there is a 'skip station if waiting cargo = 0' order
20:18:26 <tulsy> Ah ok, shame because that would be very useful
20:18:40 <Samu> hmm, toyland piggy-bank doesn't look like a pig when using opengfx
20:19:03 <tulsy> yea if you could set the defaults in the Advanced options that'd be nice too
20:19:40 <Alberth> hmm, eints GS pretty much covers openttd string codes already :)
20:20:42 <Samu> I noticed rocks from other tileset on toyland
20:20:48 <frosch123> Alberth: you need the superset of gs and newgrf :p
20:20:59 <frosch123> gs string codes pluse cases/genders
20:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> <chillcore> *tinfoil hat on* maybe I talk too much <-- Cisco now offers a service to send hardware to some fake/empty adress instead of to you, to avoid NSA interceptions
20:21:35 <Alberth> frosch123: true, but that's easy :)
20:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> *address (i probably make this mistake every time, because it's different in german and english)
20:22:06 <frosch123> Alberth: i am still wondering where to define the languages
20:22:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: more like a missing feature
20:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: anyway, that is known
20:23:10 <Samu> speaking of toyland, no one joins my game
20:23:19 <Alberth> frosch123: don't allow adding new languages, and just use the values of the files?
20:23:25 <chillcore> eddi ... good to know ... ye in dutch it is adres
20:24:09 <frosch123> Alberth: true, we don't need "new language" if there is only one project
20:24:32 <Alberth> we might, but it doesn't happen often :)
20:25:11 <Alberth> but what parts actually change?
20:25:41 <Alberth> ie things like name of the language probably won't :)
20:25:52 <Alberth> perhaps the list of genders or cases..
20:26:34 <chillcore> eddi ... I did not install the needed software for this keyboard at all ... I read eulas before installing anything these days ... the absurdness is off the scale
20:26:41 <frosch123> UukGoblin: try again
20:26:58 <UukGoblin> frosch123, thanks :-)
20:27:05 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.4.4, 1.5.0-RC1
20:27:06 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.4.4, 1.5.0-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
20:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i don't know what kind of software you got with your keyboard. i just plugged mine in and it works...
20:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i never even looked at the CD that came with the box
20:28:41 <UukGoblin> I'm also looking for more info regarding the 0x100 (and the like?) register
20:28:47 <UukGoblin> or registers in general
20:28:59 <UukGoblin> could I use it to pass a message from an industry to a cargo?
20:29:10 <chillcore> ye mine too ... hardware does not provide these little cdroms in the box no more like they used too
20:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: those are special write-only registers, which can be used in certain callbacks
20:29:23 <Samu> "gaming media keylight camera phone speakers"-keyboard maybe
20:29:40 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, right, so they're not general-purpose
20:29:54 <chillcore> I have a logitech 105 and for it to work, the programmable keys that is, The software MUST be running at all times
20:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: you might be looking for persistent storage
20:30:34 <chillcore> and since their stuff does not run onlinux anyways there is no pioint in configuring it
20:30:45 <frosch123> you cannot pass any data to the cargo profit callbacks from somewhere else
20:30:48 <UukGoblin> for instance, I'd like the income given for delivering a tonne of coal to a steel mill depend on how far the nearest coal mine is from that mill
20:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: my keyboard just sends special keycodes that any linux program can catch
20:31:03 <UukGoblin> frosch123, right :-(
20:31:40 <chillcore> my mouse I bought last year I could configere and it remembers ... all three settings
20:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: KDE just let me select to map things like volume control onto the mixer. or it even worked out of the box
20:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't tried configuring mouse keys
20:32:05 <frosch123> UukGoblin: you may be better of using a gamescript
20:32:16 <frosch123> you could reward servicing lonely industries
20:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there are probably people around the internet who figured this out
20:32:25 <frosch123> take a look at "busy bee" for ideas
20:32:33 <UukGoblin> frosch123, aha, thanks!
20:32:53 <chillcore> my G keys functio as F1 to F6 ... I have not yet tried to set it up in linux to be honest, I just kow their prog does not work because the one for my mouse refused to do so
20:33:57 <Samu> time to head to remove canal code
20:34:48 <chillcore> eddi but yeah if you go to their site and check the manual they say themselves that the keys stop working the moment you stop the prog
20:35:20 <chillcore> possibly linux don't care for that much
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20:38:14 <tulsy> Do you get penalised/lose money for transporting cargo away from an industry before delivering it? in other words, do you get paid by the square regardless of the direction of travel?
20:38:27 <chillcore> keep it simple samu ... just check if the bit is one and restore to the owner that river gets at mapgen
20:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: but it's not the keys that stop working, it's the translation of keypresses into actions that stops working
20:39:15 <tulsy> I was under the impression that transporting along the shortest route paid the most, but I saw a video that made it seem that only speed matters
20:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> tulsy: the distance between the station signs matters, not where the vehicle actually went
20:40:06 <frosch123> average speed (including loading time) is what matters
20:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so if it's faster to go around the mountain rather than across it, then you can do that.
20:40:56 <chillcore> eddi: hmm ... ye but they are assigned as F keys now ... if I assign them in linux themselves will then not also my F keys change in the same way, also the keys to change profile do not work at all
20:41:20 <frosch123> vehicle perform the worst if they take longer for loading than for travelling :)
20:41:39 <chillcore> the key to disable the windows keys does work
20:41:54 <tulsy> now I would have expected the train on the left to be paid more, because it was faster, but the other one actually gets paid more, despite going a longer route
20:42:04 <chillcore> I'll have a look i a it eddi, thanks for the hint
20:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: there are things like keymaps, where the raw codes from the keyboard get mapped onto "virtual keys" that then get promoted to the applications. i suppsoe there's something similar for mouse keys
20:42:25 <frosch123> tulsy: most of those comparison videos are silly. they compare income on a single trip, not considering that you can do multiple trips on a short route in the same time the long trip takes
20:43:05 <chillcore> I guess so yes ... my mouse is fine ... all 9 * 3 buttons
20:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause> tulsy: this video doesn't show the loading of the vehicles. tiny differences there could show this effect
20:46:27 <tulsy> yea I thought that might be the case too
20:47:55 <tulsy> I'm still a bit unclear if tiles traveled+highest speed pays more, or shortest distance+highest speed does?
20:48:26 <tulsy> This is regardless of multiple trips, because essentially I have multiple trains on the line, saturating it so that they always collect all the cargo available
20:49:13 <tulsy> so essentially when they reach the end of the line and turn around/head back, they're almost always 100% loaded
20:49:19 <frosch123> if you set running cost to zero, and loading time to zero, speed (=distance per time) is the only thing that matters
20:49:24 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:49:47 <tulsy> BUT they travel backwards/away from the industry at some points
20:49:55 <chillcore> tulsy you can check the payment graph for that and calculate ... but in the end distance wins ;)
20:49:57 <frosch123> when considering loading time you have to include it into the average of distance per time, whenever a piece of cargo is loaded
20:50:14 <frosch123> when considering running cost you have to consider train length
20:50:35 <frosch123> so, essentially you get a balancing problem:
20:50:47 <Alberth> you can also just ignore those details, as you have way too much money anyway :p
20:50:51 <frosch123> short trains -> faster loading -> faster average speed -> more income
20:51:08 <tulsy> Yea, well thats why I do it this way, because I figure its better to have the trains rolling as much as possible, rather than waiting ages in a station to be fully loaded, if nothing else because I gather more trains stopping at a station = higher station rating
20:51:13 <frosch123> long trains -> more capacity per train -> less trains -> less running cost
20:51:54 <tulsy> well I tend to balance the capacity out every one in a while in line with the industry production fluctuations yea
20:52:08 <frosch123> you need to balance the length of the train with the amount of cargo that is available :)
20:52:18 <Alberth> I often build different trains and just look which one makes most money in a year
20:53:02 * andythenorth always conducts a rigorous cost-benefit analysis
20:53:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: what's the result for irc?
20:53:34 <andythenorth> but insufficient data
20:53:41 <tulsy> Well you see, using the conditional order 'if load = 100% skip to last order', I can easily see if trains are filling up before they reach the end of the line, or if they're filling up on the way back too, which makes it easy to guage if more or less capacity is needed
20:53:43 <andythenorth> serious players run multiple simulations
20:54:01 <andythenorth> thereby optimising their strategy iteratively
20:54:45 <frosch123> oh, btw. firs 100% cheat totally breaks that balancing :p
20:55:02 <frosch123> because you do not need to use full-load orders, thus the loading time does not depend on train length
20:55:52 <tulsy> What is this 100% cheat exactly?
20:55:57 <frosch123> so with firs 100% cheat, the longest train that can travel at max speed is the best
20:56:08 <tulsy> sounds like it defies the whole point, but I guess cheats tend to do that anyway
20:56:19 <chillcore> oh a wild PeterT appears
20:56:24 <frosch123> 100% cheat means station rating always 100%
20:56:35 <frosch123> so, no need to always have a train waiting etc
20:57:12 <tulsy> but I thought it was more important to have many trains stopping than just one waiting for a full load? (on long lines at least)
20:58:04 <PeterT> you won't believe where I am rn
20:58:27 <chillcore> hey there ... it has been a long time ... I still have not forgotten about you ;)
20:58:56 <PeterT> thanks, it's been a while
20:59:12 <PeterT> i'm in Szeged, Hungary
20:59:28 <PeterT> im going to med school here
20:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how's the gulasch?
20:59:43 <PeterT> Nagyon jo! (very good)
21:00:15 <PeterT> actually i dont like gulash but i like palacsinta which is similar to crepes
21:00:25 <chillcore> nice ..; good luck with finishing them studies succesfully
21:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that was an austrian dish
21:00:49 <frosch123> wasn't there the issue that eu requires food to be fresh, while gulasch is best if it is a day old?
21:01:18 <PeterT> alot of hungarian food is best a day old
21:01:22 <chillcore> so are carbonades and spaghetti sauce
21:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't want 1 day old salami...
21:01:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
21:02:14 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: have you tried 1 day old gouda?
21:02:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't eat cheese
21:02:31 *** PeterT_ has joined #openttd
21:02:55 <Samu> woah, i just made something stupid by accident
21:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but i suppose "1 day old gouda" is more like thick milk ;p
21:03:06 *** PeterT_ is now known as Guest726
21:03:20 <__ln__> the same PeterT from 2010?
21:03:27 <Samu> i made terraforming rivers possible by accident, lel
21:03:36 <Guest726> I forgot how to take back your nick name
21:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> would be bad if there were multiple...
21:03:39 <frosch123> __ln__: we only need yorick now
21:03:45 <frosch123> and we can shut down the channel
21:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i could add a handful of names to that list
21:04:06 * andythenorth forgets the ‘install’ part of ‘make install’ yet again
21:04:23 <Guest726> It be financially beneficial for me if there were more than one of me Eddi|zuHause
21:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> normal people get a mate for that, not a clone...
21:05:28 <yorick> gotta find someone willing to do that, then
21:05:40 <Guest726> thats not what i was thinking of, exactly
21:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: what have you done!?
21:05:46 <Guest726> I was thinking about my profession
21:06:08 <Samu> omg i can't believe i did this
21:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> then you need a colleague
21:06:15 <chillcore> <Samu> i made terraforming rivers possible by accident, lel <- see what happens if you do not do 5 things at once ;)
21:06:32 <Guest726> If i had a clone, then all the money would be mine
21:06:33 <yorick> you people still remember me? sorry for being an annoying teenager.
21:06:43 <Samu> there are missing sprites
21:06:46 <Guest726> you're not a teenager anymore bro
21:06:56 <yorick> Guest726: yes, not anymore! I escaped!
21:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> some people just make that kind of impression :p
21:07:11 <Samu> but woah, i'm surprised i did something by accident which I intended to do at a later time
21:07:28 <Guest726> yes they give that kind of impression
21:08:13 <Samu> MakeRiver(tile, Random());
21:08:18 *** PeterT is now known as Guest727
21:08:18 *** Guest726 is now known as PeterT
21:09:00 <PeterT> See you in 5 years! I'll be done with the my Dental school by then
21:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> we don't need petert anymore. we have a samu.
21:11:19 <Samu> static CommandCost ClearTile_Water(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags)
21:11:45 <Samu> put this MakeRiver(tile, Random()); inside that for epic results
21:13:17 <chillcore> hehe eddi, I do not kow how PeterT behaved here as I did not come here much back then.
21:14:00 <chillcore> back then when I learned his age I was surprised he was not older ...
21:14:42 * chillcore wonders what samu is cooking
21:15:34 <Samu> i discovered terraforming rivers by accident when i was attempting to revert canal to river
21:15:56 * ST2 thinks Samu is making powerplats obsolete, creating locks with damn on it
21:16:15 <Compu> openttd website is back up
21:16:20 <chillcore> samu: that you have only mentioned three times so far :P
21:16:47 <frosch123> Compu: does that worry you?
21:17:04 <Samu> wait, no, this is my edited file
21:17:13 <Samu> where is the original file?
21:19:44 <Samu> between line 494 and 495, put MakeRiver(tile, Random());
21:19:54 <Samu> then you can terraform rivers
21:20:03 <Samu> but there's missing graphics
21:22:27 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
21:22:51 <Samu> what i am actually trying to do however is to hae MakeRiver only when removing canals
21:27:33 <Samu> it was incredibly expensive to terraform though
21:28:43 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:32:19 <UukGoblin> okay! I think I have a plan with the GS. I'll monitor all deliveries to all industries and then change the player's bank balance periodically based on what the actual cost of the delivery should have been
21:32:54 <UukGoblin> it won't be as neat as the correct profits won't get scored to particular vehicles, but it could work
21:33:23 <UukGoblin> unless I could somehow query the cargo delivered to an industry by a vehicle...
21:34:17 <UukGoblin> frosch123, oh cool! thanks
21:34:39 *** supermop has joined #openttd
21:37:45 <chillcore> eddi: I see after 4 lines already :P , reading the rest ...
21:40:06 <Samu> can't believe I only needed 4 lines
21:41:40 <chillcore> <Pikka>Which part is confusing? :P <PeterT> All of it. :D
21:46:58 <chillcore> I am looking at 'it' it being my screen
21:47:14 <chillcore> oh wait you posted a link hehe
21:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: so, what's left is you improving your workflow so these 4 lines take you an hour, instead of two months
21:49:26 <Samu> this wasn't my initial plan
21:49:35 <chillcore> who is the owner after restoration samu?
21:49:40 <UukGoblin> hmm, if only there were some profit changing functions in GSVehicle...
21:49:44 <chillcore> just asking because I do not know
21:49:49 <Samu> MakeWater sets the owner
21:53:25 <Samu> test this on your citybuilder plz
21:54:00 <Samu> build a canal on river which area is owned by a competitor, to see what happens when it removes the canal
21:54:10 <chillcore> and terraforming the tile deletes the river flag? <- not sure if that is needed but terraforling rivertiles while keeping the river seems wrong to me somehow
21:54:23 <ST2> needs changes on server side?
21:54:59 <Samu> currently the script you have removes the canal
21:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: this likely needs to be changed on both server and client
21:55:15 <Samu> if there was a river in there, it also means part of the river is also gone
21:55:27 <Samu> but I wonder what happens with this patch thing
21:55:27 <ST2> or will create some desyncs
21:56:29 <ST2> and Samu: servers are not mine, are part of a community - only 1 server machine is rented by me (we have 3)
21:57:02 <ST2> same as the BusyBee server (now in 1.5.0-RC1)
21:57:28 <Samu> what is the script that you use when it detects someone building something on area reserved by a competitor?
21:58:09 <ST2> area protection is created by the server controller software
21:59:18 <Samu> it detects, then proceeds to removing what i've just built
21:59:23 <UukGoblin> or maybe it's a git svn thing, hm
21:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: git and hg repos are clones of the svn
22:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: they are kept in sync automatically
22:01:00 <UukGoblin> right. I'll get back to you once I actually write a patch ;-)
22:01:09 <UukGoblin> (which may be never;-)
22:01:35 <Samu> ok let me test terraform thing chillcore mentioned
22:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: the svn web interface was removed recently
22:01:52 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, that's what surprised me
22:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: so browsing on the website can only be done on the hg or git repos
22:02:55 <Samu> error message: must demolish canal first
22:03:03 <Samu> well, working as intended
22:03:30 <chillcore> I meant terraforming a river not canal samu ;)
22:03:55 <chillcore> see what I meant by them being not the same?
22:04:27 <Samu> seems working as intended again
22:04:59 <Samu> how? I don't really know, but it's probably because it is a ground tile
22:05:20 <chillcore> anyhoo congrats on getting it done this time, without too much help
22:05:34 <chillcore> ye it becomes a ground tile, or at least it should
22:05:53 <chillcore> ow try a deleting a canal that was not built on a river
22:05:59 <chillcore> it should become ground too
22:06:41 <chillcore> hmm? build a canl somewhere not on river and test?
22:06:50 <Samu> static inline void MakeClear(TileIndex t, ClearGround g, uint density)
22:07:13 <chillcore> that does not say much to me TBH
22:07:42 <chillcore> but yeah if the bit is 0 I guess it is good
22:07:59 <Samu> DoClearSquare(tile); does a MakeClear thing, then puts Grass on it
22:08:49 <chillcore> I have not messed around in that area much myself
22:10:14 <chillcore> it seems like you are done then and the future is now? :P
22:10:28 <Samu> deleting a canal that was not built on river becomes ground too
22:10:41 <chillcore> ^^^ hat is what I wanted to know yes
22:11:01 <Samu> deleting a canal built on river becomes ground then river (it's a two steps thing)
22:11:11 <Samu> first step is setting the m6=0
22:11:37 <Samu> there's sea to test, let me see
22:12:21 <chillcore> I guess if peeps do not have the time to build something there between them two steps it is good
22:12:36 <chillcore> maybe you could find a way to do it in one step? i dunno
22:13:24 <Samu> destroying canal on sea creates a bareland tile, which is flooded by the nearby sea
22:13:36 <Samu> seems working as intended
22:13:42 <chillcore> s peeps/peeps and AIs
22:14:08 <Samu> let me test scenario editor now
22:14:20 <chillcore> yes that is how it goes with sea and wider rivers/canals samu
22:16:26 <Samu> hmm, have to destroy in 2 steps in the editor as well
22:17:20 <Samu> can't build rivers on canals
22:17:29 <chillcore> not two manual steps right? <- for the scenario builder that is
22:17:39 <Samu> so... i dunno if that's how it was
22:17:45 <chillcore> you're not supposed to do that anyways so no prob
22:18:21 <ST2> don't underestimate mother nature, trying to build a river on a canal ^^
22:18:35 <Samu> the error message is misleading
22:18:44 <Samu> can't place rivers here ... already built
22:18:56 <Samu> well, the tile is a canal, so "already built" is misleading
22:20:47 <Samu> it could say already built if the canal was indeed built on a river
22:21:06 <Samu> if it's not, then ... it's a bug?
22:21:18 <chillcore> if (_game_mode == GM_EDITOR) ... may be useful later maybe. ;)
22:21:59 <chillcore> add an error string in lang files and differentiate?
22:22:18 <Samu> there's this error already somewhere
22:22:40 <chillcore> "... there is a canal here"
22:23:02 <chillcore> yes you can re-use existing strings
22:23:10 <chillcore> if they fit for that situation
22:24:42 <Samu> "can't place rivers here .... already built" ->" can't place rivers here .... must demolish canal first"
22:25:36 <Samu> funny enough, when i build a river on a river, the already built message doesn't show
22:25:46 <chillcore> <ST2> don't underestimate mother nature, trying to build a river on a canal ^^ <- don't underestimate samu ... he was going to make rivers flood upwards at first :P
22:26:48 <chillcore> is that an error samu?
22:27:04 <chillcore> I can paint my room blue if it is already blue no prob
22:27:54 <chillcore> you can try to 'fix' it but is it needed? it is not an error perse
22:28:19 *** shirish has joined #openttd
22:28:35 <chillcore> I will not try stop you now you're on a roll ;)
22:29:00 <UukGoblin> is it possible to pass data from GS to a NewGRF callback?
22:30:10 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
22:31:17 <UukGoblin> I find it quite odd that a NewGRF can have a cargo_profit_calc callback, but a GS can't :-)
22:31:41 <Samu> CommandCost CmdBuildCanal(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
22:31:52 <Samu> i am building a river, why does it uses CmdBuildCanal?
22:32:39 <TrueBrain> because you are human; humans can only make canals, not rivers
22:33:11 <frosch123> UukGoblin: newgrf run synchronously with the gamestate and make decisions in real time
22:33:27 <frosch123> game scripts run asyncrhonously and do not make immediate decisions
22:33:39 <frosch123> two very different things, with very different possibilities
22:33:50 <UukGoblin> frosch123, ah, that makes sense
22:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: immediate effect vs. scope of operation are conflicting optimization goals, NewGRFs and GS are on opposite sides of that scale
22:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> NewGRFs have very direct effect, but a very limited scope. GS have a very wide scope, but only very indirect effect
22:35:33 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: so, is the finger real?
22:35:53 <frosch123> or is the fake fake a fake? :p
22:36:21 <Samu> i am in the scenario editor and trying to build a river
22:36:33 <frosch123> anyway, i completely ignored the topic, didn't expect it to turn that funny :p
22:38:23 <Samu> CmdBuildCanal is building everything from sea to canal to river
22:38:43 <Samu> could be named something else
22:39:20 <UukGoblin> so if I wanted to move the income calculation logic to a wide-scope script, I'm pretty much screwed? :-]
22:39:24 <Samu> the error message is generalizing
22:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: sometimes something is named for the main purpose, instead of the dozen side purposes
22:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: like you can use a screwdriver as bottle opener, even if it is not called bottle opener
22:40:04 <Samu> what can i do about the error message?
22:40:36 <Samu> return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_ALREADY_BUILT);
22:40:56 <ST2> make a patch with a new string?! (bad idea, you'll spam lang files with specific messages)
22:41:25 <Samu> but the error message misleads
22:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: making good error messages is a really difficult task
22:41:40 <ST2> check the values sent to that string
22:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause> probably one of the most difficult that a programmer faces
22:42:16 *** shirish_ has joined #openttd
22:42:29 <ST2> note: I'm talking almost from outside, dnt know if STR_ERROR_ALREADY_BUILT accepts them ^^
22:42:41 <Samu> i am building a river on scenario editor, placing it on a canal
22:42:49 <Samu> it triggers return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_ALREADY_BUILT);
22:42:56 <Samu> i wanna change the string
22:43:30 <Samu> not this string, but complement what error to give
22:44:13 <Samu> let me find the name of the other string
22:44:37 <ST2> STR_ERROR_ALREADY_BUILT :{WHITE}... already built <<-- as you can see, only a part of the sentence
22:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: you need to go up a level, to the function that issued the build command
22:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the princess is in a different castle.
22:56:21 *** shirish has joined #openttd
22:57:07 <Samu> DoCommandP(end_tile, start_tile, WATER_CLASS_RIVER, CMD_BUILD_CANAL | CMD_MSG(STR_ERROR_CAN_T_PLACE_RIVERS), CcBuildCanal);
22:58:23 <Samu> i have no idea what im looking at now
22:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: so what if you play it backwards?
23:00:51 <ST2> backwards will become a love song, I think - the subliminal message was because of Portuguese situation (Moonspell is a portuguese band ^^)
23:01:19 <Samu> CMD_MSG(STR_ERROR_CAN_T_PLACE_RIVERS), CcBuildCanal);
23:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: is that situation really that different from anywhere else?
23:03:16 <ST2> I guess not, corrupt polititians and stuff, but I can only talk of my life experiences ^^
23:03:46 <ST2> note: I'm not a polititian xD
23:04:53 <ST2> and well, it's me music I'm listening now... I just know the band and was funny xD
23:05:27 <Samu> STR_ERROR_MUST_DEMOLISH_CANAL_FIRST
23:05:32 <Samu> here it is, the correct string
23:06:15 <Samu> STR_ERROR_ALREADY_BUILT vs STR_ERROR_MUST_DEMOLISH_CANAL_FIRST
23:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: great. then you only need to find the place where to check for which string to return
23:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> because you don't want to change the case where the player tries to build a river
23:06:53 <Samu> return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_ALREADY_BUILT);
23:07:20 <chillcore> so future is even darker and filled with lies ... "we use cookies so that dropbox works for you"
23:07:47 <chillcore> it was working without cookies just fine :P
23:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: my normal browser has cookies, scripts, plugins, whatever disabled
23:07:54 <Samu> CommandCost CmdBuildCanal(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
23:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: some websites just turn up blank if you go there without javascript
23:08:21 <ST2> I only use dropbox because have 65GB there - and works well with ALT+PrntScrn
23:08:24 <chillcore> huhu me too butthe iPad also ... wether they like that or not :P
23:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's your fault for having an ipad :p
23:09:08 <ST2> there's a serie about it now...
23:09:18 <chillcore> true .. on my pc if https does not work and gives me a empty http page I simply close the page
23:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i predict that it's getting more and more difficult in the next 10 years to be a low-data internet user
23:09:57 <chillcore> yes ... that kills a lot of peeps with limited data plans
23:10:08 * chillcore only gets unlimited plans
23:11:08 <chillcore> eg. my mobile internet is 250 mb free and then 0.10 euro a mb so I do not even bother using that 250 mb
23:11:37 <chillcore> if that simcard would have cost me anything at all I would not have accepted it
23:12:06 <chillcore> I get free wifi with fon anyways so no need for it even on the road
23:13:07 <chillcore> free is relative ... the wifi traffic is added to my cabled home use
23:13:21 <ST2> in my town, wherever I am, 90% of time I have free wireless - many people is lazy to change router wifi default passwords ans SSID's
23:13:44 <chillcore> that too ... not in my street however all is locked
23:14:13 <chillcore> too many cheap asses I guess
23:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even know what my mobile internet costs...
23:15:10 <chillcore> also now whenever someonegets a new connection they lock it on installment for you
23:15:17 <Samu> i disable wifi on my router
23:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i googled after it, it was probably "0,00x€ per kB, capped at 1€ per day"
23:15:36 <chillcore> ame with NASs they used to all be open and many still are
23:16:23 <ST2> best solution is make access by Mac Address - solved xD
23:16:52 <ST2> gives more work, but it's the safest way :)
23:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but i only use it every few months when i'm on the way and want to double check an email or something
23:17:42 <chillcore> but by default NASs come factory protected with password ... now after someone kicked some hell by stealing data from some airport and telling them about it aferwards
23:17:56 <chillcore> and yeah whitelisting MAC adresses is best practice
23:18:20 <chillcore> still can be spoofed though
23:18:23 <Samu> okay i better give up on this error deal before i get frustrated
23:19:24 <ST2> chillcore, spoof proof is disable wifi, I noly said it's safest :P
23:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> when i got my router, i immediately disabled the wireless, until we actually got a device that was using it
23:20:48 <chillcore> ye I do that too ... if I use my wireless router, which I try not to do ... stupid ipad no work no wired because I would if I could
23:21:18 *** shirish_ has joined #openttd
23:23:29 <ST2> and in about ~30 minutes I'll update our 2nd test server to RC1 \o/
23:23:35 *** shirish__ has joined #openttd
23:24:00 <chillcore> hehe I once looked at my exes router ... she was complaining about slow internet ... IIRC I kicked seven peeps off at once
23:24:05 <ST2> I think many people download test/trunk versions thinking that are stable ones
23:24:39 <chillcore> she left it wide open and there was a playground right across the street, full of happy kids :P
23:25:11 <ST2> and sudenly they become unhappy?!
23:25:17 <Samu> damn my patch is incomplete grr
23:25:33 <chillcore> ye, even our own kids because I kicked them too :P
23:25:49 <chillcore> I did the mac thing afterwards
23:26:15 <Samu> must take care of industry/object/station tiles now
23:26:25 <Samu> probably some other water tiles too
23:27:35 <chillcore> one thing at a time samu
23:31:48 <chillcore> damn got that stupid spyware youtube cookie again from tt-forums
23:32:04 <chillcore> there is three peeps or so who have an infected signature
23:32:22 <chillcore> I have my suspicion but ...
23:33:39 <chillcore> prob is when I folow the link I end up on a blank page
23:34:49 <chillcore> I would post the link but don't want to spread diseased stuff
23:36:02 <chillcore> it one person on the last page of 'train sets'
23:36:17 <chillcore> then two others whodid not post there ..; yet
23:39:35 <chillcore> hmm not Redirect Left nor a321Pilot becuse they do not triggerin theother thread
23:39:55 <chillcore> that narrows it down a lot
23:42:03 <chillcore> that leaves andel or Lobster
23:43:31 <chillcore> or could be google itself with their adds?
23:47:58 *** Sylf was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
23:48:15 <Sylf> hm, I did not expect that
23:49:11 <chillcore> info does not trigger it neither
continue to next day ⏵
