IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-03-13
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01:14:14 <Katje> Is there a way to stop the little box at the bottom of the screen popping up to tell me about every industry doing something? I've set it to summary, but it isn't stopping it...
01:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the news settings have three states: popup, ticker or off
01:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> also, there are separate settings for industries you service, and industries you don't service
01:19:15 <Katje> where is that setting ?
01:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no, next to the ? menu in the newspaper menu
01:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe they got moved to the normal settings
01:20:35 <Katje> that has two options: message history, and last message
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01:21:52 <glx> In OpenTTD 1.3.0, these settings were moved to Advanced Settings/Interface.
01:22:35 <Katje> where abouts? I'm looking, but can't see an option
01:24:14 <Katje> no mention of the word "ticker" on that page
01:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it might not be called "ticker" anymore
01:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> who even remembers what a ticker is?
01:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway. i think the ticker is a terrible feature anyway, even worse than the popup
01:31:19 <Katje> oh, that's why that station has a poor rating, nothing serves it. *headdesk*
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02:02:33 <Pikkaphone2> you won't believe what happened next...
02:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i won't believe what happened previously either
02:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> why is it "previously" but not "nextly"?
02:11:03 <peter1138> well i could tell you
02:11:24 <peter1138> bit i'd have to research it first
02:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> *phew* i was afraid you'd have to kill me.
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02:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "An anti-vaccination activist offered a 100.000€ prize to anyone who could prove to him that the measle virus actually existed. after a medical researcher sent him the documents, he refused to pay on the grounds that he is still not convinced. a court now decided that he has to pay, after consulting an expert on whether the documents indeed fulfill the requirements"
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03:12:21 <Katje> I wish there was a way to build stations on angles, would make a lot of things easier...
03:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause> most places will insist that stations be absolutely flat, so trains don't have to wait with their brakes engaged
03:17:58 <Sylf> I demand curved platforms!
03:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that might be useful
03:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the cake is a lie
03:18:34 <Katje> Eddi|zuHause: Not sure how you could encode it in the game mechanic tho.
03:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the game mechanics aren't really the problem
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03:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the NewGRFs are a bigger problem
03:19:22 <supermop> seems neither diagonal nor sloped stations are that hard as i've seen both mocked up in patches
03:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a really really really ancient patch for diagonal stations
03:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so ancient that it was even before my time :p
03:19:59 <DanMacK> Diagonal stations would be handy
03:20:05 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: is ageless
03:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm probably below average in this channel :p
03:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but i meant before i joined here
03:21:47 <supermop> i'm above average here I feel, but if we are going by knowledge and career accomplishments, I think I'd be about 12
03:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a career? :p
03:22:29 <supermop> i'll tell you when i find one
03:22:31 <Katje> Bah, funding new industries really isn't coste effective...
03:22:52 <supermop> i often fund for SV GS
03:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje: that really depends on your level of megalomaniism
03:23:17 <supermop> in a regular game I usually just disregard them
03:24:06 <supermop> beyond just the ones you must fund for the goal, i often fund others in the same chain
03:24:27 <Katje> I was thinking of oil rigs
03:24:29 <supermop> as in firs basic economies you quickly max out production
03:24:48 <Katje> also, what is the 300 quid in "other" on the budget window ?
03:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> primary industries are way more expensive
03:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje: fees for being a company
03:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> basically a "we make sure you go bankrupt if you do nothing" feature
03:26:15 <supermop> i'd hope i'm taking home more that 300 quid if i run a monopoly with a deathgrip on a region's economy
03:26:43 <Sylf> 300 in 1900 value shouldn't be too shoddy
03:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> if you run a monopoly without a death grip, what's the point? :p
03:27:08 <supermop> he's a very altruist ceo
03:27:19 <supermop> only doing it for the good of the region
03:28:05 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: but then still you might have a death grip whether you want one or not
03:28:52 <supermop> well ottd has no corporate taxes, but maybe the personal income tax is high so he keeps all his cash in the company
03:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a monopoly without death grip, it basically means you don't matter at all. you might just leave what you're doing and not affect anybody
03:30:32 <supermop> do the little driveways on the corner tile look stupid? i may leave them out of the larger radii turns
03:31:49 <Eddi|zuHause> why you always have to ask these questions in the middle of the night? :p
03:34:30 <supermop> its the only time i'm on in Australia at which Europeans are also on?
03:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> try in 6 hours or so, you might catch the early shift :p
03:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (also, asynchronous methods of communication)
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03:50:59 <Katje> What makes an industry close down ?
03:52:54 <supermop> dependds on industry grf
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03:53:38 <supermop> in default industries, it happens when the production moves to zero as a result of the default production changes I believe
03:54:10 <Katje> is there anything you can do to encourage this ?
03:54:16 <supermop> so a never serviced default industry has a chance to eventually close
03:54:33 <supermop> some, like the default power plant do not close if i recall though
03:55:12 <supermop> so you may want to use a new grf like ogfx+ industries if your map if clogged with power plants
03:56:29 <supermop> i think each quarter the industries have a chance to change production, and if the industry is not serviced at all thaat chance will be biased towards decreasing
03:56:51 <supermop> but unserviced industries have a chance to remain the same or even increase
03:57:06 <supermop> (for primary industries)
04:00:34 <Katje> there is an unserviced oil refinery entirely in the way
04:04:14 <Katje> production last month: 0 crates of goods (0% transported)
04:24:10 <supermop> i think the more industries are on the map, the less likely that one will be chosen for closure
04:32:22 <DanMacK> Could always Ctrl+alt+C it
04:33:10 <DanMacK> Ctrl+Alt+C and use the Magic Bulldozer
04:33:17 <Katje> was tryign to avoid that
04:48:42 <Katje> *FINALLY* that oil refinery has closed
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05:28:20 <Flygon_> supermop: I do wish the game could dynamically adjust for things such as driveways
05:28:24 <Flygon_> Or, as you've pointed out
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08:15:45 <frodus> Hi Guys, Just wanted to say that we now have a fully working docker.io container for OPENTTD :) So setting up a dedicated openttd server have never been easier
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08:39:05 <alluke> has anyone got an idea how to install and use python scripts in gimp?
08:39:31 <alluke> this piece of shit program cannot export layers into .psd
08:41:51 <V453000> why do you use the piece of shit program then :D
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08:47:58 <alluke> because someone thought it would be great idea to convert ALL the source files from psd to xcf
08:50:40 <alluke> saying that xcf is free, but i have never paid a single cent to adobe either
09:04:03 <alluke> had to export all the layers as png, then load into stack via photoshop script :)
09:09:55 <peter1138> So you pirated Adobe software?
09:10:08 <peter1138> And that makes it "free"
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09:15:36 <peter1138> I can use it, I can modify it, I can do what I like with it.
09:16:00 <alluke> will adobe send you a bill if you save a file as .psd in gimp?
09:16:43 <peter1138> No, because I have no dealing with Adobe, including not pirating their software.
09:16:48 <V453000> I dont think piracy is something that bad
09:17:03 <V453000> if you pirate software, there is likelihood you will eventually buy it
09:17:11 <V453000> if you use free software from start, you probably wont change
09:17:44 <V453000> example, if someone models in blender for years, learning to use 3Dmax is annoying to say the least
09:18:02 <V453000> and nobody will buy $5000 software just because they want to start learning it
09:18:06 <peter1138> Very very minimal likelihood.
09:18:32 <peter1138> To argue that software is free, because you pirated it... that is idiotic.
09:18:38 <V453000> I dont say it is free
09:18:48 <V453000> I say it isnt harming the author if you pirate it
09:19:06 <peter1138> V453000, alluke did.
09:19:17 <V453000> because it is still making the software more used, and the lost profit is probably nonexistent since you would use free software instead
09:19:26 <V453000> well sure alluke is an idiot, so idiotic
09:19:34 <V453000> anything surprising? :P
09:20:26 <alluke> i couldnt care less about multi-million american corporations
09:20:44 <peter1138> "It's okay for me to use this software for free because I won't pay for it" is a stupid argument too.
09:21:08 <V453000> sure but one argument doesnt mean that the whole thing is terrible :)
09:23:23 <jonty-comp> yes but gimp is fucking awful anyway so any point is moot
09:23:45 <V453000> I wont argue against that because I also think it is
09:24:10 <peter1138> Gimp is terrible so it's okay to pirate Photoshop...
09:24:24 <V453000> I think it is okay to pirate useful software in general
09:24:37 <V453000> it makes more people use the software, and even if small part of them, even some will pay for it
09:24:56 <V453000> and even those some is already an increase in profit for the company, instead of all those using free software
09:25:02 <alluke> peter, how does that affect your life? do you own adobes shares?
09:25:23 <V453000> another bullshit argument alluke
09:25:43 <V453000> it matters in priciple obviously
09:26:39 <Ketsuban> Gimp won't get any better if people just waste time and bandwidth pirating Photoshop and complaining on forums that Gimp sucks in ways they can't elaborate on because they haven't used it in six years.
09:27:18 <V453000> that applies to anything anywhere, and on both sides Ketsuban
09:27:22 <V453000> that doesnt really make much sense
09:27:48 <V453000> especially since then the pirating of photoshop furtherly helps Adobe to slow down progress of their competitor - Gimp
09:28:50 <Ketsuban> Adobe can pay companies (in the form of discounted copies of Photoshop) to use Photoshop and tell them what sucks. The Gimp developers don't have that luxury.
09:29:32 <V453000> with similar logic Adobe can also buy a nuclear weapon and get rid of Gimp
09:29:36 <V453000> sure, money can solve that
09:53:34 <juzza1> alluke: Can you have indexed palette and layers in psd? No. Can you use a unix command-line tool to export pngs directly from the source psd files? No (ignoring broken imagemagick export and slow&broken gimp export)
10:13:58 <alluke> those dont sound really revolutionary features to me
10:14:24 <alluke> indexing in ps and exporting as png don't take many clicks
10:17:59 <peter1138> It takes clicks at all.
10:18:29 <peter1138> That completely breaks automation.
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11:23:08 <jonty-comp> i never pirated photoshop!
11:23:22 <jonty-comp> although technically i'm not supposed to have CS2 at home, but they released it for free, so who cares
11:23:29 <jonty-comp> at uni we had CS5 and it was lovely :(
11:46:50 <Flygon_> Faaaaaaaaaaaaar better
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13:22:08 <Samu> maglev don't have tractive effort. how they work ?
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13:47:10 <Leander_> it would have been faster to ask wikipedia
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13:49:01 <Samu> what is tractife effort for maglev?
14:00:32 <V453000> just observe how it works :)
14:04:47 <Samu> trying to put that into excel
14:05:50 <V453000> the fuck do you need that for XD
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17:45:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27182 trunk/src/lang/luxembourgish.txt (2015-03-13 17:45:21 UTC)
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27 <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 4 changes by Phreeze
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19:42:32 <andythenorth> does the cat even exist?
19:42:40 <andythenorth> if it’s never found, how do we know it’s there?
19:42:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27183 trunk/src/table/object_land.h (2015-03-13 19:42:49 UTC)
19:42:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix: GCC5 compilation
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19:49:37 <andythenorth> cargodist and “over-production”
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19:51:51 <frosch123> add a waifu-mode setting
19:52:09 <frosch123> sets all stations to fixed "50 items" of cargo waiting
19:54:59 <andythenorth> my prescription is ‘moar’ vehicles
19:55:05 <andythenorth> which will raise station waitings
19:55:09 <andythenorth> V453000: there’s a cat? o_O
19:55:21 <FLHerne> andythenorth: town-cargo production multiplier in settings, there's a patch for that
19:55:46 <TrueBrain> so tempted to do @kick ... but I like your humor too much :P
19:55:51 <andythenorth> FLHerne: how does that fix it? o_O
19:56:16 <FLHerne> Not so useful in multiplayer, but the sorts of styles where 'overloading' is a nuisance rather than a challenge don't work so well for that anyway
19:57:11 <V453000> TB I am completely relevant to 99% of andythenorth's lines in this channel
19:57:12 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Reducing overloadedness-before-trying-something-else tends to spread loading quite evenly on anything not totally linear
19:57:37 <TrueBrain> so many easy remarks to make ....
19:58:11 <frosch123> who is left-handed? :p
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19:58:44 <andythenorth> the thing with gaffer tape solutions
19:58:48 <andythenorth> is that if they don’t work
19:58:51 <andythenorth> you can add more tape
19:58:56 <FLHerne> So CDist is already reasonable at not overloading particular routes when there's an option, IME, it just manages to overload the entire network simultaenously once the spare capacity runs out
19:59:11 <FLHerne> "Duct tape is not a perfect solution to anything. But with a little creativity, in a pinch, it's an adequate solution to just about everything."
19:59:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: what is the gaffer tape solution to the problem of not having enough gaffer tape?
19:59:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: that’s a meta problem
19:59:31 <TrueBrain> more gaffer tape, duh
20:00:59 <andythenorth> is there a solution where more transport doesn’t produce more cargo?
20:01:28 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Your nice supplies mechanic applied to towns?
20:01:41 <V453000> is the question "would it be a dumb solution" ? :P
20:02:04 <FLHerne> Growth rate 0 for 0 crates goods, multipliers up to some limit if you pile in a lot
20:02:21 <andythenorth> we made all the good games except Doom
20:02:23 <FLHerne> People keep thinking that goods increases growth rate, so maybe it ought to :P
20:02:35 <TrueBrain> what is this TTD you talk about?
20:04:27 <andythenorth> a thing from 1994
20:04:40 <andythenorth> it’s dead and buried I guess
20:06:12 <TrueBrain> WE NEED MORE CAPSLOCK TO SAFE IT
20:06:16 <V453000> MOAR PIXULZ R THE SOLUTION
20:06:26 <TrueBrain> BUT THE GAME IS NOT REALISTIC!
20:07:24 <V453000> lets increase vehicle scale to times 4 then
20:07:30 <V453000> train as big as 2 houses
20:07:55 <frosch123> just at a 3 in front of the year
20:08:30 <frosch123> trains move that fast in 31955
20:12:55 <TrueBrain> if we do not have teleports in 31955 I am going to be really upset
20:14:14 <frosch123> there are, but they are considered uncool
20:14:46 <TrueBrain> real people go by train :D
20:23:49 <andythenorth> what about real cats?
20:37:06 <andythenorth> dunno, which do you prefer?
20:53:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27184 /trunk/src/lang (36 files in 2 dirs) (2015-03-13 20:53:29 UTC)
20:53:36 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: remove some removed strings
20:54:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27185 trunk/src/window.cpp (2015-03-13 20:54:35 UTC)
20:54:42 <DorpsGek> -Fix: prevent the compiler from optimizing an assignment away which caused GCC 5 to actually crash
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21:46:45 <Samu> daium, ChooChoo is a really slow pathfinder
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22:30:15 <Samu> I m slightly disappointed by ChooChoo, it station spreads
22:30:39 <Samu> and its pathfinder takes soo much time
22:31:01 <ST2> a cheater AI... whoooohooo \o/
22:31:28 <Samu> 5 game years to built a rail connection to a junction
22:31:44 <Samu> then 5 other years to built the rest for the way back
22:32:33 <ST2> any Admiral running? somehow I liked that AI ^^
22:32:57 <Samu> AdmiralAI was tested a few days ago
22:33:19 <Samu> it doesn't clear failed train stations
22:33:58 <Samu> its pathfinding is relatively slow for my liking, but not as slow as choochoo
22:35:12 <Samu> may take 1 year before completing a route or giving up
22:35:32 <Samu> choochoo is currently 20 years in-game and still pathfinding :(
22:37:54 <Samu> i have choochoo vs terron
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22:40:15 <Samu> I wish NoCarGoal could just stop popup the storybook every year
22:47:42 <Samu> i see what choochoo is trying to do, a nice feeder system with trains and buses
22:48:13 <Samu> but I don't quite understand what's the junction for
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