IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-03-11
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00:12:34 <Samu> how come i closed my openttd server?
00:14:32 <Samu> do you have a log of the list of servers? or someone have such log?
00:30:57 <Oddingar> <V453000> though in openttd it is very much given by the fact that original industries have so huge production cap that it feels like infinity - what could be interesting would be if the cargo prices varied a bit based on demand/supply, if there's a huge production the price should go down
00:31:58 <Samu> i wonder what happened to my openttd server, it just vanished
00:32:11 <Oddingar> sorrry, can't help on that :P
00:32:26 <Samu> had to start it again, but have no idea what happened
00:33:09 <Oddingar> sorry to hear that :P
00:33:35 <Samu> i could have mistakenly closed it, but it always warns me if i want to exit openttd, it wasn't this
00:33:57 <Oddingar> you sure you haven't been drinking?
00:34:48 <Samu> guess i better make use of autosaves
00:47:25 <Samu> might have to deal down in the number of busses
00:50:03 <Samu> it wasn't supposed to be limited to 500
01:14:44 <Samu> OpenTTD just closed itself
01:14:56 <Samu> i was navigating in the story book
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01:16:35 <Samu> quite an easy to do crash
01:21:22 <Samu> nop, openttd just disappears
01:21:39 <glx> retry in visual studio then
01:23:09 <glx> it was a clean version or a modified version ?
01:27:33 <Samu> visual studio is using another version
01:28:00 <glx> you need to try with a clean trunk version
01:31:40 <Samu> they're updated isn't it?
01:32:41 <Samu> Unhandled exception at 0x012C64CB in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x04364034.
01:35:05 <Samu> it is pointing me to this
01:35:08 <Samu> *dst = ComposeColourRGBANoCheck(src_px->r, src_px->g, src_px->b, src_px->a, *dst);
01:35:50 <Samu> line 123 of 32bpp:anim.cpp
01:36:29 <Samu> > openttd.exe!Blitter_32bppAnim::Draw<1>(const Blitter::BlitterParams * bp=0x0018d2b8, ZoomLevel zoom=ZOOM_LVL_BEGIN) Line 123 C++
01:40:23 <Samu> i thought OpenGFX was 8bpp
01:43:13 <glx> blitter and grf are unrelated :)
01:44:07 <Samu> - dst 0x04364034 {data=??? b=??? g=??? ...} Colour *
01:44:16 <Samu> data <Unable to read memory>
01:44:21 <Samu> b <Unable to read memory>
01:44:37 <Samu> all those with unable to read memory
01:44:53 <glx> don't try to read anything from it (it's the cause of the crash)
01:45:19 <Samu> and in some other place a bit up, there's a y with red
01:46:09 <Samu> + this 0x025e3a48 {anim_buf=0x05ac0040 {32849} anim_buf_width=1280 anim_buf_height=720 ...} Blitter_32bppAnim *
01:47:13 <Samu> "this" is also red, expanding it lists those dst with unable to read memory
01:47:49 <glx> the main problem is the wrong address for dst
01:48:33 <Samu> case BM_COLOUR_REMAP: Draw<BM_COLOUR_REMAP>(bp, zoom); return;
01:49:01 <Samu> BlitterFactory::GetCurrentBlitter()->Draw(&bp, mode, zoom);
01:49:09 <glx> is it easy to reproduce ?
01:49:53 <Samu> game script was Awards, downloaded from content dl
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01:50:06 <Samu> leave it at default settings
01:50:11 <Samu> start single player game
01:50:30 <Samu> open story book, and navigate around
01:51:05 <Samu> lasts a few in-game months without crashing
01:52:48 <Samu> i had 1 BorkAI running too, but I don't think it would matter
01:56:51 <Samu> so it seems I can't make it crash now
01:57:05 <Samu> requires an AI running alongside?
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01:58:48 <glx> maybe it's just because the AI was playing while you were just doing nothing
01:59:04 <Samu> i was navigating in the story book of AI
01:59:42 <Samu> gonna try 2 companies, but neither being ai
02:02:27 <Samu> or, to be precise, openttd vanishes
02:03:29 <Samu> i was navigating my own company this time
02:03:41 <Samu> seems to trigger with 2 companies at least
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04:20:56 <supermop_> what stile of corner looks best:
04:21:29 <supermop_> pretend that the typo 'stile' was a pun based on stone barriers
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05:57:11 <supermop_> want to give me some advice?
06:00:31 <Supercheese> The straight curve roadway with something filling in the corner (tree etc.) would look most familiar to me
06:00:39 <Supercheese> you don't really see squared corners like that anywhere around here
06:25:54 <supermop_> its odd because inner city street rarely just have a plain 90 degree curve like that in them
06:26:10 <supermop_> sorry for thaat delayed response
06:27:19 <supermop_> not sure if the game puts street trees on corners
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06:34:38 <Supercheese> In the tree-lined road zone, yes
06:34:41 <Supercheese> trees are put on corners
06:35:09 <Supercheese> likewise for street lights
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06:38:07 <supermop_> not intersections though?
06:38:31 <Supercheese> T-intersections have trees
06:38:52 <Supercheese> but what the base set does is really irrelevant
06:38:59 <Supercheese> you can do what you want with your sprites
06:40:00 <supermop_> do you think the asphalt sidewalks are distracting?
06:40:32 <Supercheese> Well, I would expect sidewalks to be concrete
06:41:55 <supermop_> they are asphalt in most of melbourne which i find really odd
06:42:39 <supermop_> in the cbd they have gradually been replaciing it with honed smooth basalt pavers about 1mx.5m
06:42:59 <supermop_> I wanted to show both, but you only get one type of sidewalk
06:43:34 <Supercheese> you could change sidewalks with town zone
06:44:04 <supermop_> so previously i thought i'd not draw any sidewalks at all - have the road be full width - then draw regular or fancy sidewalk on the front areas of houses
06:44:17 <supermop_> can roads change by townzone?
06:44:50 <supermop_> if so that really opens up a world of possibilities
06:47:33 <Supercheese> yeah you can pick whatever sprite you want to correspond to a given townzone
06:49:11 <Supercheese> but yeah, NARoads has dirt roads outside of towns, cobblestone inside
06:49:46 <supermop_> i thought that was simply the sidewalk/no sidewalk boundry?
06:50:27 <supermop_> i was not aware there was more granularity than binary for that
06:51:25 <supermop_> having five levels would be great
06:51:38 <Supercheese> they are overlays
06:51:43 <Supercheese> I stand corrected
06:51:57 <Supercheese> so seems only binary
06:56:47 <supermop_> my other crazy idea is to use streetlamp sprites to overlay the fancy sidewalk
06:57:06 <supermop_> but i dont think you can have enough streetlamp types
06:57:42 <supermop_> so i think i'll have fancy sidewalks by year -
06:58:01 <supermop_> reload game after 2000 or so and all sidewalks are fancy
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09:26:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
09:38:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
09:39:15 <argoneus> good morning train friends
09:39:18 <argoneus> how is your wednesday morning going
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13:08:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek
13:08:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium
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14:04:42 <Samu> i think i found a bug with savegames
14:05:52 <Samu> i swear i remember I had vehicles never expire turned on
14:06:06 <Samu> now when i load the savegame, the setting is turned off
14:10:49 <Samu> there's something strange with this
14:12:06 <Samu> how can i tell what's the last year Balogh Goods Truck is available for purchase?
14:19:54 <Samu> i can't remember ever turning off this setting when i created this game
14:20:18 <Samu> am i drunk or something?
14:22:13 <Samu> well i can't be sure, so better disregard this report for now
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15:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the setting almost certainly didn't turn off by itself
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16:13:52 <__johannes> if one wants to make a patch, is git or svn more recommended?
16:15:28 * planetmaker recommends mercurial. However use whatever you are happy with
16:15:53 <planetmaker> the patch itself also doesn't care about the VCS you use - it looks identical
16:16:40 <planetmaker> openttd has official repos for all, svn, hg and git. Thus clone with whatever tool you like
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16:17:58 <planetmaker> our canonical one is svn, it's the only one which gets commits. But most developers don't use it for anything other than just that and use either hg or git for their "daily" work
16:18:32 <planetmaker> our hg and git mirrors are synced with svn on every commit, so ... they're just as up2date as well
16:19:09 <planetmaker> but make sure you develop patches agains svn trunk - not any release version :)
16:20:24 <__johannes> I mean: what's the correct clone command, that one did not work
16:20:28 <planetmaker> but don't ask me about git
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16:21:04 <__johannes> hmm you know someone who has been using it?
16:21:06 <planetmaker> however I know that you didn't get right the URL... it ends with .git
16:22:17 <Alberth> /me found that too just now :)
16:22:58 * planetmaker -> shopping and dinner
16:23:07 <__johannes> ah that worked, thanks
16:24:01 <Alberth> you get all the useless data statistics for free :)
16:25:36 <__johannes> I noticed, it took 4 minutes to clone
16:42:39 <Samu> i had initially max train size 64 tiles
16:42:50 <Samu> someone made a train 8 tiles
16:43:01 <Samu> now i decided to set max train to 7 tiles
16:43:14 <Samu> when i am trying to remove 2 wagons from that train, i can't
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16:46:19 <Samu> it's done, had to set max train size to 8 first, then remove two wagons, and then back to 7
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16:52:47 <Alberth> yep sounds somewhat bug-ish
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17:17:39 <Samu> there's a bug with this opengfx, rocks on half-desert, half-grass tiles are sometimes a strong green, some other times a pale green
17:19:22 <Samu> i remember previous version didn't have this issue
17:19:40 <Alberth> that's known, afaik, I reported it some time ago
17:19:57 <LordAro> Rubidium: TrueBrain: ^
17:24:42 <Samu> ah yes, that's it, but I was on sub-tropic
17:31:07 <Alberth> it's likely to exist in several climates :)
17:31:18 <Alberth> it's a change in openttd that causes it
17:46:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27181 trunk/src/lang/french.txt (2015-03-11 17:46:24 UTC)
17:46:32 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:33 <DorpsGek> french - 4 changes by glx
17:51:10 <Samu> construction.tree_frame_burst
17:57:32 <Samu> bribe authority is enabled
17:58:16 <Samu> pf.roadveh_queue - im trying this off, some jams are improved, but some others are created :(
18:09:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what is secure today, is not secure tomorrow .. what can I say ... :P
18:10:23 <LordAro> that tends to be the case with these sort of things :)
18:13:03 <TrueBrain> either way, this weekend I hope to upgrade an ancient nginx version (debian stable) to a more modern
18:13:11 <TrueBrain> debian stable~backports, I am guessing
18:13:22 <TrueBrain> so I might as well try to fix that back to an A, as we used to be an A!
18:14:05 <TrueBrain> then again, I might as well try it now :D
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18:18:20 <Samu> I am a bit surprised that pf.roadveh_queue off is overall worse than pf.roadveh_queue on
18:20:05 <TrueBrain> lolz .. nginx is listening, but nothing is respondig .. odddd
18:21:42 <TrueBrain> ah, no longer dualstack
18:22:08 <TrueBrain> changes the log format *again*
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18:23:57 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 7 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <andythenorth> V453000: it’s better? o_O
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18:24:13 <DanMacK> I'll eventually catch him, lol
18:24:27 <TrueBrain> adds +b to the channel ...
18:25:06 <TrueBrain> LordAro: holy crap, testing a site takes for ever :P
18:25:31 <LordAro> only a couple of min :3
18:25:47 <LordAro> (the countdown stuff is massively inaccurate)
18:27:13 <TrueBrain> I wonder how many people will have issues with me disabling SSL3 ..
18:27:15 <TrueBrain> we will find out :D
18:28:07 <planetmaker> and yes, disabling ssl3... those who cannot access the site then don't deserve it. They likely work for nsa :P
18:28:26 <TrueBrain> dropping RC4 too, because .. well ..
18:28:35 <TrueBrain> bye-bye old browsers .. enjoy http
18:29:20 <TrueBrain> hmm .. what ciphers to use ...
18:29:59 <TrueBrain> haha, the advised list is ... LONG
18:31:00 <TrueBrain> lets try this again :D
18:32:42 <TrueBrain> only remaining question ... ssl_session_cache? :D
18:34:46 <TrueBrain> IE6 / XP can no longer use https
18:34:49 <TrueBrain> aint that the saddestsstststs
18:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: isn't that a case of "the goggles, they do nothing!"?
18:36:51 <TrueBrain> so lets rerun this test one more time
18:39:41 <TrueBrain> I still allowed a few weaker cipher
18:39:47 <TrueBrain> mostly to not drop Windows support completely :D
18:40:08 <TrueBrain> IE11 uses a pretty weak cipher
18:40:15 <TrueBrain> but ... dropping https support for that might be too harsh :D
18:40:35 <TrueBrain> I might be able to solve that server-side
18:43:42 <TrueBrain> to enabling stapling or not .. hmm
18:44:54 <Samu> nop, i suppose concurrent autosaves
18:45:31 <Alberth> ah ja, heftklammen sind sehr gut
18:46:51 <TrueBrain> damn, takes for ever to make a 4k key :D
18:47:48 <Alberth> good security, take forever to generate the key, so you cannot deploy it :p
18:50:14 <TrueBrain> the pains I go through for better Windows support
18:50:17 <TrueBrain> still generating :D
18:52:07 <Samu> that's it. pf.roadveh_queue is worse as off than on
18:53:00 <Alberth> clearly, nicely waiting for your turn is profitable :)
18:53:27 <Samu> it solves a few jams, but creates 2 big ones
18:54:25 <Samu> the other was just moved a bit further
18:54:39 <TrueBrain> STILL generating, omg
18:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure you have enough waiting space
18:55:19 <TrueBrain> at least my ran out :D
18:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> patience is a virtue :p
18:56:21 <Eddi|zuHause> if virtues came easy, they wouldn't be virtues
18:58:20 <Samu> those extended truck stations facing crossroads
19:01:20 <Samu> crossroad facing truck stations neither solution on or off is good
19:01:34 <Samu> but on deals with it better
19:03:22 <TrueBrain> can you please send me some entropy, I seem to be missing a few :D
19:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a lot of entropy in my room, come and get it.
19:08:09 <TrueBrain> so who's fault was it that I am not burning a CPU at 100% during a CF run just to generate a new dh key?
19:08:20 <TrueBrain> *points at LordAro*
19:08:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:08:56 <TrueBrain> @kick Samu please no spam URLs here
19:08:56 *** Samu was kicked by DorpsGek (please no spam URLs here)
19:09:02 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Error: cat is not in #openttd.
19:09:41 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: does your one-time-rename-bananas offer still stand? o_O
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19:09:45 <andythenorth> or is the window closed?
19:09:59 <TrueBrain> ugh ... I nailed that window closed with 1000 nails
19:10:19 <TrueBrain> seriously annoying to rename stuff :P Can't you just upload under a new name? :D
19:10:49 <Alberth> newgrf id and all that :)
19:11:12 <andythenorth> the name isn’t just a meaningless string?
19:11:16 <TrueBrain> tables, indexes, mirrors, clients ....
19:11:34 <andythenorth> all of the internets stuff
19:11:35 <TrueBrain> main issue is, if I remember correctly, that a rename means all filenames change
19:11:51 <TrueBrain> or possible I could only do that for a new upload
19:11:55 <andythenorth> I hoped name would just be an arbitrary title attribute
19:12:00 <TrueBrain> werent you going to rewrite it? :P
19:12:17 <andythenorth> keeps you healthy
19:12:19 <TrueBrain> no, for sure it is also related to how the file is named on disk
19:12:25 <TrueBrain> [20:17] *** Samu has been kicked from the channel by DorpsGek (please no spam URLs here).
19:12:30 <TrueBrain> reason states it enough, doesn't it?
19:12:57 <TrueBrain> even if it was the queen on a tomato
19:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> your queen or the more popular queen? :p
19:13:19 <Samu> to the left roadveh is off
19:13:26 <Samu> to the right roadveh is on
19:13:29 <TrueBrain> I have no more queen .. we now have a king ..
19:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably knew that, but forgot
19:13:46 <TrueBrain> well, there is a queen next to him
19:13:50 <TrueBrain> but that is more a wanna-be :D
19:15:13 <TrueBrain> so ... all this reconfigure, and what do I get? More CPU cycles wasted on the frontend proxy :D
19:15:50 <TrueBrain> Stapling active, seems to work fine too
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19:17:22 <TrueBrain> awh, still only an A
19:17:52 <TrueBrain> dh of 1024 gives 10 warnings with Windows IE ..
19:17:56 <TrueBrain> dh > 1024 gives a warning with Java6
19:18:00 <TrueBrain> IT IS NEVER ENOUGH :'(
19:18:59 <TrueBrain> I don't get why I only get an A
19:19:03 <TrueBrain> I want my damn A+ :(
19:21:01 <TrueBrain> ah, no HSTS and no HPKP
19:21:06 <TrueBrain> shall I enable HSTS? :D
19:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what that is
19:22:00 <TrueBrain> nods to the browser it should be using HTTPS
19:22:30 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a reasonable idea
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19:24:56 <TrueBrain> okay, lets cycle that in too then
19:25:10 <TrueBrain> feels a bit weird to do that for HTTPS only ...
19:25:19 <TrueBrain> you would think you want to tell browsers that on the HTTP channel :D
19:26:02 <TrueBrain> we will see how that is received :D
19:28:10 * andythenorth wonders how many insecure content warnings IE will now generate :P
19:28:22 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I do wonder how a browser knows that you want him to use https, where the http channel doesnt suggest it ..
19:28:31 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I hope 0 :)
19:29:03 <TrueBrain> ah, after visiting the https once, it will keep going back to https for next visits
19:29:19 <andythenorth> shall I start an IE VM? :P
19:29:35 <andythenorth> IE and SSL are the bane of my life some days
19:29:37 <TrueBrain> in the mean time I will just click: Internet Explorer
19:30:17 <TrueBrain> 0 warnings on this IE
19:30:26 <andythenorth> it should redirect to https?
19:30:30 <andythenorth> I have it on http
19:30:50 <TrueBrain> no, browsers only get the nod once you have been on https that using https might be the right thing to do
19:30:51 <andythenorth> if I go to https I get insecure content warnings
19:31:34 <TrueBrain> for what ever possible reason?!
19:32:09 <andythenorth> dunno, the IE explanation is shit
19:32:14 <TrueBrain> well, IE11 doesnt, so I can just say: dont use IE on https then :D
19:32:25 <andythenorth> it didn’t like a cert
19:32:36 <TrueBrain> LordAro: happy now? :D
19:32:44 <andythenorth> either our cert, or maybe a third part cert - is there any embedded third party content?
19:32:59 <TrueBrain> all content uses //
19:33:03 <TrueBrain> no protocol definition
19:33:42 <andythenorth> yeah IE 7 hates the cert
19:33:58 <TrueBrain> I generated a freaking 4k DH for it :(
19:33:59 <andythenorth> is it self-signed?
19:34:15 <TrueBrain> open it with any decent browser :P
19:34:48 <andythenorth> it’s the OVH news portlet
19:36:03 <TrueBrain> so .. now lets look at HPKP .. while at it etc
19:39:59 <TrueBrain> it can even report back to you if there was a failure :D
19:44:17 <TrueBrain> well, I am happy with my A+
19:44:28 <TrueBrain> I am disapointed LordAro is not giving me cookies :(
19:51:45 <TrueBrain> there, the forum button now also keeps you on https if you came from there :)
20:01:07 * Taede hands TrueBrain some home-made choc-chip cookies
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20:54:47 <V453000> hm ... would like to do the scaling some other way than scaling the actual model
20:54:52 <V453000> but I dont think that is reasonably possible
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21:59:19 * LordAro gives TrueBrain some cookies
22:00:14 <Samu> is SirkoZ a user of this chat?
22:00:59 <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen sirkoz.
22:00:59 <TrueBrain> w00p, finally I received my cookie!
22:01:04 <TrueBrain> THANK YOU LORDARO :D
22:01:30 <Samu> I need some moderating tips :9
22:01:55 <Samu> i upgraded all his trains, for that he thanked me
22:02:19 <Samu> but then i removed his station spreading and added transfer trucks
22:03:05 <ST2> maybe he couldn't read the server rules
22:03:19 <Samu> no rules, i dunno how to make that
22:03:21 <TrueBrain> rule 1: no rage-quitting? :P
22:05:24 <Samu> well if you see him in your games, tell him the road vehicles are all profiting
22:05:43 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:07:00 <Samu> his current profit catapulted him to be ahead of the AIs
22:07:43 <Samu> but they're getting close
22:08:35 <planetmaker> Samu, generally, if you join a company of someone, talk to that person how he likes to see his company managed
22:08:41 <planetmaker> not everyone likes feeder services
22:09:13 <planetmaker> replacing the use of station spread by use of many many transfer vehicles is not considered always a bonus. Quite simple
22:09:45 <Samu> hmm, i was attempting to maintain the same services
22:10:24 <peter1138> It's usually safe to fix blockages
22:10:31 <peter1138> Beyond that I wouldn't do much.
22:10:40 <planetmaker> yup. Not without asking
22:12:31 <ST2> usually server communities have specific rules ingame, to make moderator actions justified, and explained to the player why (to he don't repeat same mistakes next time)
22:12:44 <ST2> that communication part is very inportant, imho
22:13:17 * Rubidium never had such issues on his server
22:13:22 <Samu> station spreading was 64 tiles
22:13:52 <Samu> he really made use of that
22:18:42 <Samu> entering the last last 9 years for this
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22:34:17 <supermop> planetmaker: thanks for feedback
23:34:27 <Samu> world recession with AI's
23:34:56 <Samu> and trains killing trucks
23:37:31 <Samu> these recessions should happen more often
23:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (what have i done!)
23:38:30 <Samu> in 100 years, it happened 2 times
23:40:13 <Samu> they could either have a more meaningful impact, lasting at least 5 years
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23:40:35 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause just invoked the doomdays xD
23:40:37 <Samu> or they could happen more often
23:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you only need to change one or two lines, and then add a setting, which is another 10 lines. you're done in an hour...
23:46:04 <glx> standard hours or very long ones ?
23:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on how fast you move
23:47:07 <ST2> and depends if user have daylength applied :D
23:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if he moves close to the speed of light, one of his hours could feel like days for us
23:50:15 <planetmaker> and only if he moves away from us
23:53:15 <ST2> but I guess sound speed would be enough ^^
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