IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-03-08
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00:03:12 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
00:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "LHC gets restarted this month"... have the black hole people assebled yet?
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02:42:56 <supermop> might bike down to some kind of matsuri
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07:14:20 <juzza1> does it matter which part of an articulated consist has capacity, if all the others have zero capacity?
07:14:42 <juzza1> ie. does the position of the loading part make a difference in some edge case
07:15:18 <V453000> I dont know of such case, but having it in one part is more flexible
07:15:44 <V453000> ... if you split it to all parts then you have to multiply capacity/loadspeed by number of parts
07:16:19 <juzza1> yes, and that would probably affect loading speed aswell
07:20:40 <V453000> tbh I have not yet considered how will I do this in DOOM
07:21:07 <V453000> and since everything is made of 8 articulated consists, adding capacity/loadspeed to each part is probably not flexible enough
07:21:28 <V453000> would then have to scale wagons by 8 as minimal value
07:21:45 <V453000> though if they are 2 tiles long ...
07:21:56 <V453000> might make wagons shorter :)
07:24:16 <juzza1> yeah, if the vehicle is a single piece "in reality", then setting capacity to only one part makes the most sense anyway
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07:35:09 <V453000> idk how does it show in the interface
07:35:16 <supermop> i thought about having the standing capacity in one part and the seated in another in case you wanted to give those two different loading speed or decay rates
07:35:19 <V453000> but 1 articulated vehicle is on 1 line anyway isnt it
07:35:43 <V453000> idk how will it behave with loading sprites
07:35:53 <supermop> or have livery refit disable standing capacity or something
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07:55:59 <supermop> starting forum fights about monorails and BR intercity liveries
07:56:08 <supermop> why do i bother with this noise?
07:56:42 <andythenorth> no link, didn’t happen
07:57:13 <supermop> i claimed that IC swallow was a weak livery for the 91s
07:57:37 <supermop> this doesn't sit well with most englishmen apparently
08:00:33 <supermop> only model trains i have are in swallow though to be honest
08:00:59 <supermop> more because that's what was available in 1997
08:06:14 <andythenorth> supermop: you have enraged a foamer
08:06:22 <andythenorth> he’s not actually angry, just English
08:06:36 <andythenorth> also, what good thing could ever be in that part of the forum?
08:06:42 <andythenorth> I have never been there before
08:07:52 <supermop> another folly on my part:
08:08:48 <supermop> i don't even like monorails but whatever
08:09:00 <supermop> more or less what you said andy
08:12:46 <supermop> draw rest of street bits? or toil unproductively towards houses?
08:13:17 <supermop> got a nice hefeweizen here so i doubt too much serious work will occur
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08:43:16 <Alberth> it's a TRAIN challenge :p
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10:07:54 <chillcore> damn I am rusty ... mapsize is not in tiles ... 1 '&&' is fatser then 4 (or so) '||'s ... also ... need more gui magic redraws, maybe some more auto-re-positioning/-sizing
10:08:45 <chillcore> thinking about WWT_SLIDER ... I might do a WWT_MAGIC?
10:09:03 <chillcore> tooltip "click me and see what happens"
10:09:45 <chillcore> WWT_MAGIC would be WWT_EMPTY without the litle slider on top of it?
10:10:03 <chillcore> somewhere in the liddle is zero
10:10:21 <chillcore> which you can not enter btw
10:11:39 <chillcore> for precision you use the querybox anyway?
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10:55:22 <TrueBrain> for those who might wonder why bing is not indexing OpenTTD website correctly: they are on a perma ban
10:55:33 <TrueBrain> bingbot seems to ignore any sense of decency
10:55:38 <TrueBrain> and DDoSes services
10:55:57 <TrueBrain> I have little to no interest to resolve that problem nicely, so I just add them to my nice little ban-list of IPs that are not welcome
10:58:40 <TrueBrain> (to put it in numbers, the load on 3 machines went from 2.0+ to 0.1 after banning the IP range of bingbot ...)
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11:00:18 <^Spike^> kinda wierd for bingbot to do that but can see you point
11:00:53 <TrueBrain> that is exactly what I thought .. why would a search-engine bot act like a DoS
11:00:59 <TrueBrain> but .. here they are ... doing their thing ...
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11:14:26 <andythenorth> sounds like the story of crawlers deleting wikis
11:14:34 <TrueBrain> NOTICE: openttd services will be rebooted today to apply latest patches etc; except some (minor) downtime :)
11:31:18 <TrueBrain> OMG openttd.org IS DOWN
11:32:42 <TrueBrain> owh, pfew, it is back
11:39:40 <TrueBrain> and now it is time to cycle MySQL .. which always gives a lovely issue with service that don't reconnect :D
11:43:20 <andythenorth> never restart the mtSQL
11:45:42 <TrueBrain> the worst about updating this many VMs, is that they all receive a new kernel :P
11:45:47 <TrueBrain> means you have to reboot :(
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12:03:39 <TrueBrain> and now it is time to cycle the gateway ... means all connections will drop in a moment :D
12:06:02 <chillcore> see ya on the other side o/
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12:13:33 <TrueBrain> okay ... 4 VMs left .. tick tack ..
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12:15:27 <frosch123> juzza1: the front part is somewhat important, at least for road vehicles
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12:45:01 <TrueBrain> right, rebooting last VM ..
12:45:09 <TrueBrain> wiki says byebye, be back soon :)
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17:15:03 <Wolf01> by the way... 2 months after I finally found that movie title...
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17:55:04 <TrueBrain> who has a good suggestion for a Subversion web interface?
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18:06:00 *** FLHerne_ is now known as FLHerne
18:06:54 <TrueBrain> that is what I did now: I removed it :D
18:09:24 <andythenorth> or even, ugh, github
18:09:27 <TrueBrain> what part of Subversion did you not understand? :)
18:11:02 <andythenorth> the bit where you bin Subversion? :P
18:11:19 * andythenorth is a broken record
18:11:32 <andythenorth> no tool is better than any other tool etc
18:11:43 <TrueBrain> next weekend tracd will go away, and we will have to live with gitweb and hgweb based on the git and hg clones of the svn
18:11:48 <TrueBrain> no direct svn web interface it is :)
18:11:51 <andythenorth> but having ditched svn + trac for git on bitbucket….I am a happier worker
18:13:39 <TrueBrain> made a nice post about it , w00p :)
18:15:53 <peter1138> i tried gitlab but it's really quite heavy
18:16:32 <TrueBrain> I really like gitlab, only updating can be a pita
18:16:53 <andythenorth> another TrueBrain classic
18:17:20 <TrueBrain> after we moved VCS away, all that is left is moving mail + dev stuff away, and I can finally retire a 6 year old VM
18:17:45 <TrueBrain> but I cannot really move away mail, because devs have .forward files
18:17:51 <TrueBrain> so first I need to move that information into LDAP
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18:17:58 <TrueBrain> which requires a frontend page to alter that information
18:18:02 <TrueBrain> which requires an update of Django
18:18:07 <TrueBrain> and omg .. that chain is endless
18:18:23 <TrueBrain> will have to see if I can find a nice way around a few of those issues
18:18:24 <Oddingar> I started a new game yesterday with FIRS, and for some reason I can't find any wagons that accepts the new industries, only the old ones ... any ideas?
18:18:41 <TrueBrain> owh, and I have to move away stuff like finger.openttd.org .. and more of those administrative tools we have running
18:18:50 <TrueBrain> sigh .. so much work .. such complicated service ...
18:19:07 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: sysadmin’s life is never quiet
18:19:24 <TrueBrain> I seriously am surprised every time I work on this how insanely complex openttd.org is
18:19:34 <TrueBrain> so many services that integrate with eachother and communicate ..
18:19:45 <andythenorth> do we really host mail?
18:19:45 <TrueBrain> I wish back the time it was only a webserver :D
18:20:59 <andythenorth> and this is just openttd, all the coop stuff is separate :P
18:21:09 <TrueBrain> which is another complexity on its own
18:21:10 <andythenorth> so much web service there is
18:21:21 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD alone is now 15 VMs ...
18:21:49 <TrueBrain> but I rather have 15 VMs, than 1 ... with 1 updating of anything was near impossible :)
18:21:56 <andythenorth> single occupancy ftw
18:21:58 <TrueBrain> apt-get update, right, now 50% of the stuff broke ....
18:22:09 <TrueBrain> well, upgrade, but who is counting
18:22:13 <andythenorth> even better, outsource the service totally :P
18:22:36 <TrueBrain> not many free compile-farm services out there :)
18:22:40 <TrueBrain> let alone ones that do what we want :D
18:22:45 <andythenorth> for work, my company used to run own svn, trac, etc
18:23:12 <andythenorth> but it’s a waste of developer time maintaining vanilla stuff that is off-the-shelf for ££ / month
18:23:19 <Oddingar> can I active a newgrf file after a game is started? or is it too late?
18:23:24 <andythenorth> and sysadmins are expensive and hard to find :)
18:24:32 <FLHerne> Oddingar: You _can_, but only by poking various cunningly-hidden settings and the big red 'this will break your game' dialog
18:25:01 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it really is, indeed
18:25:12 <FLHerne> Oddingar: Adding plain boring vehicle sets or things that just add sprites is usually ok
18:25:25 <andythenorth> but some stuff is _so_ vanilla that it’s easier to just run it in a VM
18:25:31 <andythenorth> like irc and ticket bots and such, which are stateless
18:25:45 <FLHerne> Oddingar: Anything to do with industries and cargos, or that modifies the behaviour of other newgrfs, will probably break messily
18:26:04 <andythenorth> takes longer to fill out credit card details than run some stuff
18:26:16 <Oddingar> aight, thanks for your reply, I'll start over instead :P
18:26:22 <NGC3982> I just killed my servers, since i noticed that about four people per week play on it.
18:28:35 <FLHerne> Oddingar: If you really want, run 'set scenario_developer 1' in the game console, then add grfs from in-game, then click 'OK' on the red box and don't complain when your game mysteriously gets corrupted
18:35:23 * NGC3982 tries OpenTTD on the RPI.
18:38:47 <Alberth> Oddingar: Since you obviously didn't transport anything, you may as well just start anew cleanly
18:41:10 <Samu> i have one of those questions
18:41:49 <Samu> what happens when the game needs more than 4 GB RAM when running a 32-bits version
18:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and probably just quits
18:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause> also, on 32bit systems you probably only have 2GB or maybe 3GB for user programs
18:44:29 <Samu> testing 1 NoCAB on a 4096x4096 map
18:45:10 <Samu> and this was the 64-bit openttd
19:09:37 <Samu> Bucket=126746168/nBucketTable=20/nResponse=1/n
19:09:41 <Samu> well, stuff i don't know
19:16:52 <Oddingar> Alberth: I started on transporting passengers and wanted to continue with fish/food to the towns I already was transporting passengers between
19:17:37 <Oddingar> no worries, havent spent too much time on it
19:17:40 <Alberth> but yeah, wrong newgrf setup is a pain, I have been there too :(
20:00:40 <andythenorth> Alberth: download counts don’t mean much, but Busy Bee has a lot in a short time :o
20:01:13 <Alberth> It's different from other scripts :p
20:02:28 <Alberth> I wonder how many people really play competitively
20:03:17 <glx> andythenorth: some people download everything
20:03:48 <frosch123> only some? or the majority? :p
20:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say the majority does not download anything
20:04:05 <chillcore> apt-get install www
20:04:36 <frosch123> ok, i meant the majority of those downloading anything
20:05:06 <Alberth> we should supply just 1 zip file with everything :p
20:05:27 <frosch123> there used to be torents
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20:06:10 <frosch123> using free open source stuff is boring, using a torent makes it more exciting
20:10:13 * andythenorth waits for Eddi|zuHause to write a GS generator
20:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it takes like 2 minutes to make one...
20:12:18 <frosch123> what? a gs generator?
20:17:06 <chillcore> might need a script to control that :P
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20:42:24 <Samu> cannot reallocate 32768 bytes
20:47:52 <__ln___> openttd won't run on a microcontroller then
20:52:15 <TrueBrain> 640kb is enough for everyone
20:52:48 <Wolf01> that's the point, he didn't say "everything"
20:53:27 <TrueBrain> he didnt say "sheep" either
20:54:20 <Wolf01> windows is not in the "everyone" group
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21:18:01 <planetmaker> fun with trains: "We stopped as we have a technical issue with our brakes" Lucky I didn't have any connecting trains I had to get
21:18:46 <frosch123> better than "we can't stop as we have a technical issue with out brakes" :p
21:19:39 <frosch123> depends whether you are talking about modern trains, or historic ones
21:19:52 <glx> it's designed to brake by default
21:20:39 <FLHerne> glx: Unless you're in the UK and have vacuum brakes
21:21:40 <FLHerne> Scratch that, I'm thinking of something else
21:23:20 <planetmaker> glx, yeah, that seems to be the case... in the middle of nowhere the train ran into a quite hard stop ;)
21:24:25 <glx> and it's often linked to the doors, if a door fails to close, the brake won't release
21:24:54 <planetmaker> well, we were running at max speed when it happend...
21:25:35 <glx> this can of course be disabled if there's a door problem to go to depot without passengers
21:26:58 <glx> and I think it should be possible to manually release brake for the same reason
21:27:17 <glx> else it's hard to go to maintenance location :)
21:27:47 <planetmaker> :) They probably did something like that... took them 20 minutes to "fix" the problem
21:28:25 <glx> first need to find the problematic wheel ;)
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23:50:18 <supermop> trouble motivating myself to do sidewalks
23:54:07 *** odd is now known as Oddingar
23:58:09 <Oddingar> nice, don't know how to motivate you though
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