IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-01-27
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07:28:56 <V453000> nice industry you got there andy
07:29:05 <V453000> insufficient pixel count but they are lickey enough
07:30:29 <andythenorth> bit more tweaking
07:42:21 <Supercheese> a wild RAWR appears?
07:42:35 <Supercheese> >Fight >Items >Run
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08:40:39 <peter1138> Hmm, is QC loading for anyone?
08:44:27 <Taco_> aside from a really good barrister?
08:45:20 <Supercheese> Questionable Content perhaps
08:56:06 <andythenorth> cba to code this mine
08:56:11 <andythenorth> maybe that’s enough newgrf for a bit
08:58:21 <planetmaker> loads just fine, peter1138
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09:26:17 <V453000> road crossing models done :> postproduction magix and lets get on with coding =D
09:26:41 <V453000> got no crossing signals yet though :>
09:27:54 <V453000> I will add them eventually, even got the stuff prepared to do that
09:28:23 <V453000> definitely later though :)
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09:29:22 <V453000> I have needs to bananize nao
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10:07:38 <andythenorth> or he’s the only sane one
10:10:25 <V453000> that thing is not my creation pm so there has to be at least one more person :P
10:15:55 <planetmaker> your girl friend, V453000? ;)
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10:20:46 <V453000> no some unknown internet person :D
10:21:00 <V453000> my girlfriend is supportive but not quite obsessed :D
10:21:28 <peter1138> natvWhat's crazy about that?
10:21:32 <peter1138> What's crazy about that?
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11:32:56 <krinn> 2015: from start of year, internet, my m/b server and my car battery died... now the tv died
11:33:02 <krinn> gonna be a real good year for me
11:37:34 <peter1138> TV's unnecessary anyway.
11:37:38 <peter1138> Unless it's your monitor.
11:40:27 <krinn> yeah not as vital, but boring
11:56:22 <planetmaker> TV... don't have one for about 8 years now or so
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13:10:03 <V453000> ok so I got all of my sprites for one climate coded. How should I make the logic around identifying climate AND let the player choose which climate he wants to force visually?
13:10:18 <V453000> aka I want one parameter Auto/Temperate/Arctic/Tropic/Toyland
13:10:27 <V453000> with Auto automatically detecting current climate
13:10:34 <V453000> how should I do that?
13:10:47 <andythenorth> if auto param == true
13:10:59 <andythenorth> if auto param = false
13:11:05 <andythenorth> if climate = player choice
13:14:26 <V453000> asdf cant access ttwiki
13:16:43 <V453000> right so climate == TEMPERATE
13:20:32 <V453000> how can I write this? if (param_climate == 0) AND (climate == TEMPERATE) OR (param_climate == 1) {
13:21:05 <V453000> temperate is if parameter is 0 and climate is temperate, or if parameter is 1
13:22:05 <V453000> what is || or !| or idk how is it written, can I do something like that even?
13:22:08 <andythenorth> probably nest the brackets
13:22:19 <andythenorth> I can’t write code in my head, only with my fingers
13:22:25 <andythenorth> I’d actually have to write it for you :P
13:22:36 <V453000> just one line please? :P
13:27:30 <krinn> if (param_client == 1 || (param_climate ==0 && climate == TEMPERATE)) {
13:28:55 <V453000> was already reading up on those || && things :D
13:30:25 <andythenorth> could have been ‘or’ and ‘and’ symbols :P
13:31:09 <planetmaker> V453000, you can steal the code for climate selection from ogfx+landscape basically
13:31:30 <V453000> if this works what krinn wrote then I will use that, looks simple enough :P
13:32:29 <krinn> if || is logical or and && logical and it should
13:32:44 <planetmaker> yeah... it's basically what ogfx+landscape uses
13:33:00 <planetmaker> similar, though not identical. Depends on param definition
13:35:35 <planetmaker> basically I define a custom variable to be used in the NewGRF further down in order to avoid doing the same calculation over and over
13:36:51 <planetmaker> to_use_climate = param_landscape - 1;
13:37:06 <krinn> funny never look at grf coding, what ttd_platofmr could be?
13:37:12 <planetmaker> if (param_landscape == 0) { to_use_climate = climate; }
13:37:21 <planetmaker> krinn, OpenTTD / TTDPatch
13:37:43 <planetmaker> basically: ignore, when using NML. It produces NewGRFs only usable by OpenTTD
13:37:49 <krinn> oh, more a grf_plaform than ttd_plaform naming so :)
13:38:42 <krinn> that grf code looks like c
13:38:52 <planetmaker> but actually... we can safely remove that variable... TTDP will fail to come to a point to actually check it due to grfv8 ;)
13:39:23 <planetmaker> it was sensible for nml 0.2.x and earlier in times of grf v7
13:39:50 <krinn> ttdpatch doesn't handle v8?
13:40:35 <planetmaker> no. It was invented post mortem ttdp
13:56:19 <V453000> ok I think I got it :D finish render, make sprites, try compile :D
14:05:48 * andythenorth contemplates giving V a compile-time flag to only use low res placeholder graphics
14:07:16 <andythenorth> how long is your compile?
14:07:56 <V453000> but the 1/4th one was about 10-15min I think
14:09:01 <andythenorth> I don’t know how 32bpp compiles work
14:09:05 <andythenorth> but eh, that’s a long time
14:09:25 <andythenorth> nothing in your rawr repo?
14:10:21 <andythenorth> dunno if it’s a valid improvement, but if I was doing 32bpp, I would do something like:
14:10:27 <andythenorth> for a realsprite
14:10:51 <andythenorth> “src/graphics/${graphics_dir}/lovely_horse.png"
14:11:11 <andythenorth> and then graphics_dir is a var set to ’32bpp’ or ‘low_res'
14:11:26 <andythenorth> and then have the render job output a super low-res version
14:11:40 <andythenorth> for testing of code only
14:11:54 <V453000> for code I dont think there is anything that should be breaking atm
14:12:05 <andythenorth> I have no patience for slow compiles :)
14:12:06 <V453000> the logic worked for 3 sprites, should as well work for 2500
14:12:15 <andythenorth> baseset has no code really?
14:12:22 <V453000> I have it as newgrf atm
14:16:53 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the encoding is not a problem for the 2nd run as nmlc caches it all
14:17:18 <planetmaker> switching and using lowres / highres would *increase* the time
14:17:31 <andythenorth> why are his jobs so long then? o_O
14:20:23 <krinn> does nmlc produce object and link them at end or simply link what was just build?
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14:27:56 <V453000> yeah with cache it is ridiculouslyh fast :)
14:28:10 <V453000> aaaafter... 17 minutes
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14:32:43 <Belugas> sir andythenorth :) good day
14:33:09 <Belugas> hello to you too, and allthe others silently watching over hahaha!
14:36:54 <krinn> planetmaker, nmlc/action0.py def in_range(self, addr, length): return addr >= 0 and addr + length - 1 <= self.last ---> in_range(someaddr, -1) :)
14:37:15 <planetmaker> krinn, nmlc first builds a symbolic expression tree, then builds the grf from that
14:38:52 <planetmaker> what do you want to tell me with that quote, krinn ?
14:39:10 <krinn> i must say i'm impress by nmlc, you guys did a nice job
14:39:27 <krinn> planetmaker, with -1 you're goes out of bound, while it should return true
14:40:27 <krinn> addr>0 and addr-2 < self.last
14:41:25 <planetmaker> so you argue it misses a check on the length argument, that length is positive?
14:42:13 <krinn> dunno why someone would do that ; but bugs might
14:43:37 <planetmaker> the only call to that function is in line 256 of the same file. The length argument is always positive :)
14:47:23 <planetmaker> num_ids are by definition in the code > 0. It's part of the grfspecs
14:48:00 <krinn> and people never pass out of specs values :)
14:48:19 <planetmaker> people cannot write that. It's nml internal stuff
14:49:19 <krinn> ok (find_unused and some other were sharing the same problem)
14:49:51 <planetmaker> however, I definitely do not want to discourage you. And patches to nml are gladly accepted
14:50:06 <planetmaker> at least assertions could be placed on these things
14:50:13 <V453000> XD worked upon retrying
14:50:47 <krinn> <- know 0 in python, know 0 in c, know 0 in so many stuff :)
14:52:08 <krinn> know just enough to say: <krinn> i must say i'm impress by nmlc, you guys did a nice job
14:53:01 <planetmaker> though there's line 374 of action0.py which asserts on len = num_ids
14:54:49 <krinn> where is nmlc code (i have only eddi fork one, and it gets odd to find where is line 374 in it, as it doesn't have the len = num_ids check)
14:57:44 <planetmaker> same place as eddi's fork really
14:57:53 <planetmaker> except to leave out the eddi- part
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16:19:31 <andythenorth> V453000: roads are good, it’s getting there
16:19:38 <andythenorth> those buildings are ZBase?
16:19:54 <V453000> last re-rendering and publishing stuff soon :)
16:20:01 <andythenorth> you going to recreate original TTD builings in your own style? Or invent 100% new?
16:20:17 <V453000> tbh I hate how ogfx and zbase just recreates original
16:20:23 <V453000> I think I might keep parts of them, but mostly new
16:20:48 <V453000> will see how creative I get
16:21:00 <V453000> the original still kind of has something magical in it :)
16:21:59 <andythenorth> but recreating in 32bpp lets the magic smoke out
16:22:28 <planetmaker> V453000, creating originally new ones is the way to go! :)
16:22:57 <planetmaker> but there are a few constraints... mind the name of the buildings you draw. They should make sense
16:23:21 <planetmaker> and the animation / palette re-colouring makes sense to keep in mind for those where it matters
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16:25:17 <andythenorth> how to explain...
16:25:36 <andythenorth> the original is based on pixel art cheats you can get away with due to contrast
16:25:43 <andythenorth> so lots of the buildings physically make no sense
16:25:50 <andythenorth> one wall would be higher than the other for example
16:26:01 <andythenorth> the roofs are often stupidly thick
16:26:12 <V453000> meh :) that doesnt mean I cant make stupidly thick models :P
16:26:17 <andythenorth> and the dimensions of doors and windows would look all wrong when rendering :)
16:26:26 <andythenorth> that is where the magic smoke would leak out
16:27:30 <andythenorth> *if* I was to start rendering (eh, no), I would probably do something in this direction
16:29:27 <andythenorth> low poly, exagerrated shapes, beautiful render set up
16:31:37 <V453000> I love this kind of imagez :) though they feel a bit too cuddly/sweet/soft for OpenTTD to me :)
16:31:45 <V453000> but hell yeah why not
16:32:19 <V453000> could create something like that eventually for toyland/5th/extra climate
16:33:30 <Alberth> first one has a beautiful station in the shape of a steam engine :)
16:34:12 <V453000> I like every piece of it really :D
16:35:40 <andythenorth> or I would do something more minimal and white
16:35:51 <andythenorth> we rendered an animated series once in pure white, blue and beige
16:35:56 <andythenorth> with red for the blood
16:36:02 <andythenorth> it’s offline right now though :P
16:36:29 <andythenorth> oh someone pirated it on YT
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16:41:26 <V453000> hmm RAWR postproduction using 16GB ram
16:42:19 <andythenorth> push the boundaries
16:42:23 <andythenorth> you need a render farm
16:42:48 <andythenorth> buy another box and leave it watching batch jobs on a shared disk
16:42:53 <V453000> rendering over night and if I wanted I could render on multiple PCs
16:43:23 <V453000> now I am rendering last moment because I want to get it finished already :D
17:03:52 <V453000> lets see what does bananas have to say about 300 MB
17:03:59 <V453000> and I dont think its opinion will be sparta
17:05:23 <planetmaker> you have to use musa. but you know that, I guess :)
17:06:02 <V453000> sure, that is obvious :)
17:06:10 <V453000> got that prepared already
17:06:39 <V453000> hm will need some more rendering :>
17:07:19 * andythenorth should make some teaser images for Iron Horse
17:38:00 <andythenorth> page crashes my browser
17:40:14 <andythenorth> I really thought I’d added a note about why cb 15E should not be used with any limitations
17:46:06 <planetmaker> where did actually Elyon disappear to? Wasn't he the guy who worked on nml stations?
17:49:54 <andythenorth> I would update wiki, but I’m locked out :P
17:50:01 <andythenorth> I swear I added a note somewhere
17:51:27 <andythenorth> ah, I think nml vehicle cbs page handles the issue by simpling not describing how to prevent refit?
17:53:59 <planetmaker> those who know how to use a callback know how to fail them
17:55:05 <andythenorth> oh you replied to McZ too
17:55:11 * andythenorth was typing for a while :)
17:55:34 <planetmaker> CB_FAILED is not hard to know and described in the general sections on callbacks
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19:06:21 <NGC3982> Maybe it's time i try that thing..
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19:10:41 * NGC3982 feels stupid, but does not understand how to apprahend it.
19:16:08 <V453000> anyway, what could be the cause of this? only happens in x4 and x4, at the edge of the map
19:25:20 * NGC3982 forgot to check the online content.
19:47:30 <peter1138> Your void tile is wrong?
19:49:40 <V453000> I have no idea what is a void tile
19:50:37 <peter1138> Oh yeah, we don't have them any more.
20:01:31 <NGC3982> V453000: Them industry animations are bliss.
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20:06:38 <frosch123> V453000: maybe a shade of alpha, which ottd turns into black?
20:06:58 <V453000> I would assume some bad offset?
20:07:24 <frosch123> it's the bulldozed bare earth tiles, converted to black
20:08:42 <NGC3982> I guess one should consider zBase -and- rawr?
20:09:26 <V453000> doesnt really matter, I used it with any base set
20:09:44 <V453000> not much will remain out of zbase so it is lookable at
20:09:55 <V453000> just buildings/bridges/airports/stations
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20:16:19 <NGC3982> How does one get the correct wagons for YETI dudes and so on?
20:16:52 <V453000> NUTS - monorail chameleon / maglev medium / maglev fast / maglev animal express and slugs
20:17:01 <V453000> pineapple trains have some flatbeds too
20:18:02 <NGC3982> Is it usable with the vanilla trains?
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20:21:30 <FLHerne> NGC3982: Presumably OGFX+ trains will carry them
20:21:36 <FLHerne> But without the funny graphics
20:21:50 * NGC3982 core2duo struggles a tad.
20:22:09 <FLHerne> NGC3982: C2D here, doesn't seem to struggle all that much
20:22:45 <NGC3982> I'm still at the NewGRF settings window, and the program is unreachable at the moment.
20:22:51 <NGC3982> But that's no error, i guess. It's a big file :-)
20:23:43 <V453000> NGC3982: do you have sprite cache size increased?
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20:23:59 <NGC3982> I haven't really checked.
20:24:07 <NGC3982> I'll try and play first, fix later.
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21:28:20 <deniz1a> there are no electric trains in sub arctic?
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21:34:53 <deniz1a> ok yes vehicle sets are different for sub-arctic
21:48:11 <andythenorth> should FIRS do this extra parameters for closing / opening etc
21:48:17 * andythenorth couldn’t care less either way
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