IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-01-01
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00:00:39 <Supercheese> can't forget the hoverboards
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05:00:18 <snowman_> HAPPY FUCKING NEW YEAR CUNTS DID YOU JOIN MY NETWORK YET?????
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07:25:58 <andythenorth> what does {CARGO_LONG} expect as parameters?
08:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> what do the specs say?
08:05:38 <andythenorth> I don’t know where detailed specs are for this, and google finds nothing
08:05:56 <andythenorth> and also guessing by reading Silicon Valley
08:06:16 <andythenorth> ottd src will know I guess
08:07:20 <Supercheese> Well, {CARGO_LONG} is "XX tons of stuff", no?
08:07:28 <Supercheese> or crates or whatnot
08:07:57 <andythenorth> I think the problem is internal to this GS code
08:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but page seems outdated
08:16:55 <Supercheese> I would presume it requires two bits of data, one for cargo amount, and one for cargo type, no?
08:21:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: google found me that page, but yeah, outdated
08:22:02 <andythenorth> Supercheese: id, amount
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09:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose $someone should consolidate all these docs
09:13:24 <Rubidium> oh... hmm... it's not NML he's talking about
09:13:47 <Rubidium> then it's probably different...
09:15:25 <Rubidium> but yes, cargo_long/short/tiny are cargoid + amount
09:21:42 <andythenorth> not sure where that should be documented :)
09:38:00 <Rubidium> irc://irc.oftc.net/#openttd ?
09:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (sketch is in english with a short german introduction)
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10:34:27 <peter1138> "NO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION INTENDED!" Yeah that's how it works...
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10:44:15 <andythenorth> what is this openttd in the browser thing, other than a party trick?
10:44:49 <andythenorth> and creating space for some ads that probably pay low and perform badly
10:46:58 <andythenorth> I don’t think I belong in the the problems forum
10:47:01 <andythenorth> I should probably hide it
10:48:44 <andythenorth> also I no longer understand the Iron Horse thread
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11:07:42 <V453000> new year, happiness, stuff
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11:14:40 <V453000> starting the year off with some 3D modelz :)
11:15:40 <andythenorth> I thought your 2015 resolution was to go back to drawing pixels, as god intended
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11:16:06 <andythenorth> ah there he is :)
11:16:12 <andythenorth> summoning works again
11:17:23 <Alberth> here I am, with a very new Fedora21 OS :)
11:18:35 <andythenorth> new year, new OS
11:18:43 <Alberth> hopefully, I just did a basic install
11:18:57 <andythenorth> I fixed cargo name display in the goals
11:18:59 <Alberth> no doubt I'll be missing lots of details here and there
11:19:03 <andythenorth> but I don’t like how I did it
11:19:17 <andythenorth> passing ‘cargoes’ along a stack of functions
11:19:38 <Alberth> doesn't sound good indeed
11:19:43 <andythenorth> maybe it’s just me, but I really dislike writing code that passes bazillions of function params
11:19:57 <Alberth> no, it's not just you :)
11:19:57 <andythenorth> for stuff that’s safely global to the environment
11:20:10 <andythenorth> I see it done a lot though :)
11:20:36 <LordAro> needs more objects :P
11:20:53 <andythenorth> most of the stuff I work on has the idea of context
11:21:08 <andythenorth> and you trust the context to provide the right things
11:21:24 <LordAro> Rubidium: copyright notices are outdated, btw ;)
11:21:29 <andythenorth> anyway, I pushed it, read the diff to see what I did :)
11:21:39 <andythenorth> next, fix goal progress updating
11:21:54 <andythenorth> which I didn’t do as I wasn’t sure if it was unfinished, or done-but-buggy
11:22:14 <LordAro> eventually i'll write some squirrel again
11:22:25 <LordAro> now that i actually understand programming
11:22:51 <andythenorth> bit overly fond of pointless chars
11:23:48 <LordAro> it's not python, y'know :p
11:24:08 <andythenorth> they’re optional in javascript too
11:24:17 <andythenorth> although it’s actually really ugly to omit them in JS
11:25:10 <Alberth> what's wrong with goal updating?
11:25:54 <andythenorth> updates the timeout, but no display of % transported
11:25:58 <andythenorth> although there is code to do that
11:26:03 <andythenorth> seems not to be called afaict
11:26:13 <andythenorth> UpdateDelivereds
11:26:30 <andythenorth> oops UpdateDelivered
11:27:13 <Alberth> it doesn't until you deliver something :)
11:27:33 <Alberth> I don't link the ticks display though
11:28:47 <andythenorth> I have a savegame with cargo being delivered
11:28:54 <andythenorth> maybe I should check that again :P
11:29:14 <Alberth> it's not updated on delivery, but later, once every X days
11:36:07 <andythenorth> afaict % transported is over-written by timeout
11:36:16 <andythenorth> they write to the same progress column :)
11:36:44 <Alberth> maybe I didn't commit/push?
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11:39:49 <Alberth> doesn't seem to be the case
11:42:32 <Alberth> hmm, openttd doesn't run anymore :p
11:43:56 * andythenorth bets on freetype
11:45:58 <Alberth> but I am missing lots of other libs too, it seems
11:48:36 <andythenorth> I’m assured it’s all 100% wonderful :)
11:48:49 <andythenorth> whenever I complain about the state of deps on OS X
11:50:24 <Alberth> a bit more subtle, but yeah :)
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12:09:29 <andythenorth> (different GS idea) set a goal per town, the aim is to clear the map (meet goal fo every town)
12:09:36 <andythenorth> every n years, GS founds a new town
12:11:41 <Alberth> shouldn't we add a few parameter settings for things like that?
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12:13:13 <Alberth> I agree your change doesn't look nice :)
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13:49:12 <Taede> assuming thats not an intended result of course
13:50:22 <Alberth> standard openttd has no "estimate"
13:50:26 <andythenorth> Alberth: yeah my change was to prove it’s a fix :)
13:50:49 <Alberth> andythenorth: how do I test it?
13:51:14 <andythenorth> generate a goal?
13:51:15 <Alberth> I made some changes, and it should still work, but proving that needs testing
13:51:42 <andythenorth> the issue was that I had <invalid cargo> in my goal window for some goals, or wrong cargos (compare goal window and console)
13:51:50 <Alberth> I have been using opengfx+ and never seen any problem
13:53:09 <andythenorth> either you fixed it locally and I don’t have your changes for some reason, or there was a coincidence with the original cargo ids
13:53:21 <andythenorth> I didn’t see until I put it on FIRS arctic basic
13:53:33 <andythenorth> but I think it was occuring before then and I didn’t notice :)
13:53:56 <Alberth> you know which cargo to look for?
13:54:04 <andythenorth> was pretty frequent for me
13:54:09 <andythenorth> pretty much all were invalid or wrong
13:54:14 <andythenorth> up the prior rev and try?
13:55:09 <Alberth> I found a few more points where indices and cid were mixed up
14:01:41 <Alberth> andythenorth: pushed a nicer solution
14:02:10 <Alberth> ie put the entire cargo data into the goal, instead of just the index
14:04:19 <andythenorth> appears to work :)
14:05:33 <Alberth> engineering supplies gets printed correctly :)
14:07:22 <andythenorth> btw, I was thinking of masking out some cargos, ENSP and FMSP being prime cases
14:07:27 <andythenorth> probably optionally
14:09:02 <Alberth> could mask out town cargoes or industry cargoes too
14:09:29 <Alberth> so you can play town-only, or industries-only
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14:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if you mask out "feedback cargos", how do you detect which ones are those?
14:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. workers, or vehicles, or...
14:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, the same discussion as with cargodist. except you can make different choices
14:23:10 <Alberth> make a list of options
14:23:21 <andythenorth> just tie it to certain newgrfs
14:23:33 <andythenorth> the whole “GS is in a black box wrt newgrfs’ is nonsense
14:24:29 <andythenorth> do it as progressive enhancement though
14:32:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: I’ll bin my current game (the goal texts stay borked) and start a new one tonight
14:32:53 <andythenorth> the goal texts are just bad data from previous version
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14:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> "sex between a male and a female silicon lifeform would take longer than the universe is old"
14:50:29 <Flygon__> I thought the internet's done the three plus four on that already
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14:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, theory is that such a lifeform would consist of silicon chain molecules, like we have carbon chains, and such molecules we can create, but only at really low temperatures. and at such low temperatures, chemical reactions happen at a very slow pace
14:53:29 <Flygon> Yeah, but this's the Internet we're talking about
14:53:39 <Flygon> It's likely there's already an artistic representation of this
15:00:24 <Gantradies> are there any modsor something
15:00:29 <Gantradies> that allow you to set astation
15:00:41 <Gantradies> to refuse to "stock' atypeofcargo, ego accept it from industries?
15:01:06 <Gantradies> cause ive jsuthad antoher massiehub station distroedby a farm randomly being buiuld in itscachment area
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15:02:33 <Gantradies> TLDR: for somestupidreason, thehub station for my factory is now filling up with grain and livestock and refusing to accept it. howcan i prevenmt it from EVER happening Again, and fixthe current issue WITHOUT demolishing tghe station sndstarting fomr scratch
15:02:48 <Gantradies> cause it took me HORUS to set up T_T despireate for advice
15:04:31 <Alberth> fixed in 1.5, as in, wait long enough and the station will stop accepting
15:05:34 <Alberth> simplest way to ensure vehicles never drop or pickup cargo at the wrong station is to always use "go non-stop" orders
15:06:55 <Alberth> and not force unloading
15:07:31 <Alberth> but now you're too late. Simplest is to just ignore it
15:09:50 <Gantradies> i dont know why this keeps happening to me
15:09:56 <Alberth> how does the cargo end up there?
15:10:01 <Gantradies> T_T the canals took ages to set up, and i madethem early on
15:10:16 <Gantradies> ok, something was wrong with my spacebar, fixed it
15:10:37 <Alberth> no point in retrying until you understand what happened or is happening
15:11:08 <Alberth> does it happen when a vehicle stops there?
15:11:24 <Alberth> does the vehicle have force unload or so?
15:12:20 <Gantradies> as far as i can see, the station is recieveing both grain and livestock form a nearby farm,
15:12:25 <Alberth> clearly, if the station is for a factory, the station should accept it. Is the factory gone?
15:12:31 <Gantradies> but AFAICS there arent any inside the cachment area
15:12:44 <Gantradies> its still very much there
15:13:05 <Alberth> so you tried picking up grain and livestock from it
15:13:13 <Alberth> probably right after unloading
15:13:23 <Alberth> if you didn't set "no load"
15:13:29 <Gantradies> i jsut cant FIND any party of teh station that owuld be in rage (i have a habit of expanding my cachments using lorry and bus depots, mainly for passanger stations, which this hub is also starting to serve as)
15:14:06 <Gantradies> yeah, its still SLOWLY creeping upwards
15:14:54 <Gantradies> think it'd be practical/possible for the devs to add a sub-munu to the station ui for forceing a station not to accept certain cargo?
15:15:30 <Gantradies> i occasionally had this problem back i nthe 90's/00's back i nthe retail version, but because you coudlnt get the max station size anywhere near as large it wasnt that bad
15:16:25 <Gantradies> half the timev what happens is a random primary industry is built near a factory/mill as a Random even, and i dont notice untill quite a few years later, hwen i notice the bottom has dropped out of my income
15:17:20 <Gantradies> ( i tend to do VERY long-range ship routes, so my news ticker tends to be flooded with complaints about ships loosing money in this year on a 2-4 year long route, wish you coudl tunr of the notificatison for individual vechicle trypes)
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15:18:40 <Alberth> technically you can add more knobs and bolts, and so, the question is, is that the right solution?
15:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Gantradies: the only thing you can do is use "unload and no loading"
15:19:10 <Alberth> so far I have never considered the details of cargo transport and what can go wrong there
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15:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there is really nothing else that will help you in any way
15:20:01 <Alberth> magic bulldoze the farm :)
15:20:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that won't get rid of the excess cargo
15:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that you bring back and forth with no place to unload
15:20:59 <Alberth> yeah, it needs your order too
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15:53:46 <Gantradies> *sigh* given my luch with town expansion/ new industries, that means im goign ot have to expressly do that on EVERYTHING
15:57:57 <andythenorth> why is the excess cargo costing you money?
15:58:24 <andythenorth> excess cargo is a non-issue
15:58:31 <Alberth> after unloading, wagons pick up the cargo, go back, and don't pick up the 'real' cargo
15:58:51 <Alberth> ie they drive back and forth without making any money
15:58:57 <andythenorth> you always have to set ’no load’ at drop offs
15:59:16 <Alberth> in this case no cdist needed, even
15:59:41 <Alberth> just an industry supplying the same cargo to the destination is enough
16:00:38 <andythenorth> well ‘no loading’ is everyone’s friend :)
16:01:48 <Alberth> I usually forget it as well :)
16:02:27 <Alberth> but my catchment area is small, so not a big problem
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16:04:33 <andythenorth> I guess a newly built industry could cause this problem
16:04:38 <andythenorth> I’ve seen it, but rarely
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16:10:41 <Wolf01> happy new year to all the train friends
16:13:26 <Alberth> /me adds self to train friends
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16:32:16 <andythenorth> Lego hauling 1.5kg of wooden blocks
16:33:12 <Wolf01> are you experimenting with traction effort for your new grfs?
16:33:46 <andythenorth> absolutely definitely
16:35:34 <Wolf01> I see what you did it there... put your photostream in the favourites
16:35:56 <andythenorth> flickr is terribly confusing to andythenorth
16:36:26 <andythenorth> I only just found ‘rotate'
16:36:30 <andythenorth> still can’t figure out delete :P
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16:39:37 <andythenorth> all of that is now in pieces :)
16:39:43 <andythenorth> 4 years of children at it
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16:48:07 <andythenorth> wonder if this truck would peforrm better or worse with actual spring suspension
16:48:17 <andythenorth> instead of just relying on the chassis twisting
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17:46:47 <Wolf01> yumm, time to get another year of credit in my phone
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18:04:17 <Alberth> andythenorth: pushed better display of remaining time
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18:27:45 <andythenorth> Alberth: I’ll test in a bit
18:27:53 <andythenorth> hopefully I get a few hours clear tonight :)
18:28:32 <Alberth> kids not tired due to staying up late, yesterday ? :)
18:30:35 <andythenorth> nah, asleep at standard time
18:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the earlier you send them to bed, the earlier they are awake
18:33:09 <Alberth> it's good for kids to go to bed early
18:36:35 <andythenorth> sometimes they can go to bed late and get up at 5am
18:36:41 <andythenorth> no particular patterns
18:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it only works if done regularly
18:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you just get jetlag
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19:25:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: configurable number of goals
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19:38:15 <andythenorth> Alberth: are you around a while, or bed soon?
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19:38:54 <andythenorth> I have to finish some chores then start a game :)
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20:38:50 <Wolf01> same happened here, in sardinia, hotels offered to keep them for some time, they want big cities
20:50:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27102 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2015-01-01 20:50:43 UTC)
20:50:46 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6194]: money values would end up wrong in strings when outside of the bounds of a 32 bits integer
20:51:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27103 /trunk (60 files in 4 dirs) (2015-01-01 20:51:18 UTC)
20:51:21 <DorpsGek> -Update: copyright date
20:51:35 <Wolf01> oh, it's the time to do that again
20:53:28 <Rubidium> Wolf01: though it wasn't my idea ;)
21:08:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27104 /trunk/src/script/api (script_list.cpp script_list.hpp) (2015-01-01 21:08:19 UTC)
21:08:23 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6194]: support 64 bits integere in the ScriptLists as well
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21:25:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27105 /trunk/src (town.h town_cmd.cpp) (2015-01-01 21:25:42 UTC)
21:25:47 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6195]: grow_counter was not properly bounded by growth_rate, but by some other value used to calculate growth_rate.
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22:39:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r27106 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2015-01-01 22:39:35 UTC)
22:39:41 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6176]: Use the actual max speed of the vehicle in front when determining if a RV can overtake.
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