IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-12-18
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00:51:06 <anchovies> irc.mycooldude.info #cooldude13233
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01:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> something tells me that this is not very trustworthy
01:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone crazy enough to find out what that actually is?
02:31:27 <ChrizC> Hi all, I have a station surrounding an oil refinery which is feeding in oil by trains, and taking goods out by both train and plane. There's always at least one vehicle loading, or attempting to load goods. All of the trains I use have top speed of 305km/h. I built a statue in the local town, yet I can't get my station rating above 26% and I have no idea what else to do?
02:36:00 <Sylf> what version of openttd are you using?
02:36:31 <ST2> single player or online server? wich newgrf's used? if SP, a savegame would help, if MP game, wich server?
02:37:32 <Sylf> I've experienced similar behavior in various nightlies
02:43:22 <ChrizC> sorry, I was outside having a cigarette
02:44:00 <ChrizC> Sylf, ST2; v1.4.4, single player, newgrf's are av8, opengf+ airports, industries, road vehicles and trains, and long vehicles v4
02:47:00 <ChrizC> I've got the station in question focused on, it's Marnbridge South
02:48:41 <Sylf> I didn't know this happened even in the release version
02:48:46 <ChrizC> Oooh, I didn't see that
02:53:33 <ChrizC> It's seriously affecting how well the station's performing. It's producing between 1,000 to 2,000 crates of goods per month but only transporting about 300-400 :(
02:53:33 <ST2> well, I'll bet it's a newgrf issue, and some are quite old (and not updated for long time)
02:54:08 <ST2> but that's saying the obvious ^^
02:54:15 <Sylf> so, I tried this: I closed the airport, and stopped the goods train until the station rating hit 0%
02:54:28 <Sylf> then resumed the goods transport service
02:54:34 <Sylf> now the station rating is 65%
02:55:18 <ChrizC> Sylf; keeping the oil trains running?
02:55:43 <ChrizC> Alright, lemme give that a try. Got a looot of planes wanting to land haha
02:56:20 <Sylf> It's not a real fix though
02:56:32 <ChrizC> Does it slowly go back down?
02:56:59 <Sylf> if no trains or planes are taking the goods, the rating will drop slowly
02:57:10 <Sylf> I'm playing with fastforward
02:57:58 <Sylf> and I got the rating down to 30%, and can't get it higher than that
02:59:02 <ChrizC> I can't even get the rating to hit 0%, it just hovers around 10
03:00:50 <ST2> btw, Long vehicles newgrf I had to download it manually - OpenTTD couldn't find it
03:01:09 <ChrizC> Yeah, it's not on the main thing
03:01:32 <ST2> probably you found the issue then ^^
03:01:52 <Sylf> the game I posted on tt-forums doens't use long vehicles
03:02:09 <ChrizC> Sylf, what newgrfs did you use on the game on tt-forums?
03:02:14 <ChrizC> Match any of the ones I have?
03:03:49 <Sylf> only OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles 0.4.1 matches
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03:09:09 <ChrizC> Sylf; It seems to be any OpenGFX+ newgrf
03:09:25 <ChrizC> I just enabled scenario_developer, removed all the OpenGF+ newgrfs one by one
03:09:31 <ChrizC> now the rating's 75% and rising
03:10:44 <Sylf> I did that on my save game, and it crashed the game
03:11:02 <ChrizC> Well I just screwed up my airport and stations by doing it lol
03:12:02 <ChrizC> Okay, OpenGFX+ trains doesn't seem to affect it
03:12:19 <ChrizC> Actually, scratch that, it's slowly going down again
03:13:06 <ChrizC> So yeah, it's something to do with OpenGFX+
03:16:20 <Sylf> OpenGFX+ trees should be safe though
03:16:40 <Sylf> I play with that more than any other OpenGFX+ series, and I normally don't have problems
03:16:46 <ChrizC> I don't have that, so can't test it
03:17:27 <Sylf> it's downloadable in game
03:21:14 <ChrizC> Weird, for some reason, I can't demolish the airport at Marnbridge South
03:22:57 <ChrizC> Oh lol, silly me, I left a plane in the hangar
03:29:23 <ChrizC> Well it's definitely something to do with OpenGFX+ Trains, Airports, Road Vehicles or Industries. Or any combination of the 4.
03:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> industry sets can change the way station rating is calculated
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07:26:29 <V453000> hmmm why does nmlc not say which sprite line is failing, just the line of the template ._.
07:26:42 <V453000> I know the filename at least, which is something but ...
07:34:22 <V453000> I know some of those is having an error
07:34:43 <V453000> I think the only option to get beyond bounds of the file is to have y0 while x is >7F
07:34:53 <V453000> but I cant find any of these
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07:43:34 <V453000> nmlc seems to hate me
07:43:43 <V453000> doesnt give line of error, just points to the template
07:45:29 <Alberth> yeah error handling with templates is not optimal, so to say
07:45:52 <V453000> well yeah I had no idea nmlc would not give me the line where the error actually is from :(
07:47:02 <Alberth> I don't know if it keeps that information
07:49:26 <V453000> still, there arent so many of them not to check by eye
07:49:37 <V453000> and I cant see any that would be below 7F and have y for 1
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07:58:46 <V453000> anyway, what does the output mean?
07:58:48 <andythenorth> what GS shall we make for christmas?
07:59:11 <V453000> no X seems to exceed 2k and y 14k?
07:59:13 <andythenorth> deliver food and goods to every town on the map
07:59:17 <andythenorth> how hard can that be to code?
08:00:00 <andythenorth> nice to play on a small map
08:00:03 <Alberth> I computed your x and y coordinate for the last sprite in the template, and let the machine print when an coordinate became bigger than before
08:03:29 <V453000> the image is x 2880 y16k
08:05:04 <V453000> where 16k is exactly 128*128
08:08:52 <Alberth> not even close to 16k
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08:11:23 <V453000> yeah, only 7F is almost there
08:11:38 <V453000> 80 would be exactly there, which is where I would start adding 1 to y
08:11:51 <V453000> this is why I dont understand where is the issue
08:12:03 <V453000> unless there is some major issue at X
08:12:19 <V453000> which I dont see happening at 2800 either
08:12:51 <V453000> there is even the extra room of x1 zoom sprites next to it
08:14:15 <Alberth> say I make a dummy sprite file of 2880 x (16*1024), what needs to be done in your paste to make it acceptable to nml?
08:15:08 <V453000> what do you mean what needs to be done?
08:15:40 <Alberth> it'd needs an 8bpp file too
08:15:43 <V453000> I got this file, I add my template, give it hexa value according to the sprite sheet, assign correct template (x4 or x1)
08:15:55 <V453000> sure, the 8bpp file is exactly the same ... the error didnt get there clearly
08:16:23 <Alberth> I want to run your paste through nml, so I can check I get the same error and/or play with it
08:17:05 <Alberth> I don't care about the actual output or any logic
08:17:27 <Alberth> I just want to verify that nml dies on the code in that paste
08:20:54 <Alberth> nmlc ERROR: "y.nml", line 18: Undeclared block identifier 'spriteset_maglevflatbed_empty_batteries' encountered
08:21:18 <Alberth> how do I make spriteset_maglevflatbed_empty_batteries known?
08:23:35 <V453000> ah that needs 8bpp x1
08:28:07 <Alberth> nmlc info: 0 sprites, 0 cached, 0 orphaned, 0 duplicates, 0 newly encoded (native) <-- it's being smart :(
08:29:39 <Alberth> a sprite set needs being used probably
08:30:12 <planetmaker> same goes for switches. I found that out the other day, too when I tried to reproduce some stuff
08:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i have this dummy code in CETS
08:30:19 <planetmaker> and hence I always ask for full source ;)
08:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> because i need nmlc to not optimize out some things
08:31:53 <Alberth> it needs a --no-optimize flag :p
08:32:09 <Alberth> Sprites look very spiffy, V
08:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not right either, because it should optimize out loads of other things
08:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> plus it's probably a bad idea to support random workarounds
08:33:30 <V453000> XD spiffy but something borkd :P
08:34:38 <V453000> maglevflatbed_wagon_switch just use this on a vehicle and it should be everything I believe
08:35:12 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: it's for debugging, not for production
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08:36:44 <Alberth> item(FEAT_TRAINS, item_icm) { graphics { default: spriteset_maglevflatbed_YETI_5; } } <-- something like this seems sufficient, I'll add a few more :)
08:37:20 <V453000> Alberth: just paste the thing I pasted
08:37:23 <V453000> and use maglevflatbed_wagon_switch
08:37:29 <V453000> that will take all of the sprites
08:41:18 <Alberth> nmlc info: 992 sprites, 16 cached, 0 orphaned, 32 duplicates, 944 newly encoded (native)
08:41:18 <Alberth> nmlc info: Train items: 1/65420
08:41:18 <Alberth> nmlc info: Concurrent spritesets: 4/255 ("y.nml", line 164)
08:41:19 <Alberth> nmlc info: Concurrent spritegroups: 49/256 ("y.nml", line 360)
08:42:27 <V453000> what could possibly be my issue?
08:42:50 <Alberth> it fits with the observation that the coordinates were within bounds
08:43:17 <V453000> but if I give you the same code and the same files how could I get an error? XD
08:43:35 <Alberth> please try to run my file, to check your nml does the same
08:44:08 <Alberth> it's not the same file, I have taken lots of short cuts :p
08:44:39 <Alberth> you checked whether that .png file is used elsewhere?
08:44:55 <V453000> yeah, only this area though.
08:45:37 <Alberth> I should download your stuff?
08:45:53 <V453000> I dont heve it in the repository atm
08:48:02 <V453000> your thing compiled for me
08:48:15 <V453000> -> I should attempt to paste your code into my thing I suppose
08:51:10 <Alberth> can you take out some parts?
08:51:24 <Alberth> or eg replace line 5 by copying line 4 or so?
08:52:01 <Alberth> ie some way to make it more clear where the error originates from
08:52:38 <V453000> trying to let it compile now
08:52:44 <V453000> lets see for how long
08:54:16 <V453000> takin suspiciously long now
08:54:30 <V453000> seriously if this fixes it then I have NO idea what is different XD
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08:55:39 <V453000> right it failed, but at SLUGflatbed
08:55:51 <V453000> which is exactly the same where word maglev is replaced for SLUG
08:55:58 <V453000> so I will just paste your thing again XD
08:56:15 <V453000> it means that the whole maglevflatbed is correct as all of it is before SLUG
08:58:31 <Alberth> perhaps better check the result before doing a mass replace?
08:59:25 <Alberth> Oh, you noticed I killed your cargo table?
09:01:34 <V453000> thats fine I just replaced the sprite definitions
09:01:37 <V453000> not the groups/switches
09:02:01 <V453000> I am quite confident that IF it compiles, then it will be correct
09:02:05 <V453000> the if is a thing though XD
09:02:36 <Alberth> a minor pre-condition :D
09:03:11 <V453000> taking quite a while to compile :+
09:03:27 <V453000> but considering that I am basically tripling the amount of sprites of NUTS once I get done ...
09:03:40 <V453000> not mentioning that third of them are x4 32bpp
09:04:23 <V453000> well, the longer it goes atm, the more hope I have that it will go through XD
09:05:30 <Alberth> compiled sprites get cached, so any next time is continuing from the point of the last failure
09:05:43 <Alberth> unless you change coordinates or files, or so
09:07:03 <Alberth> /me looks for a very small test case with a broken template
09:10:49 <V453000> the company colours are fucking amazing
09:11:14 <V453000> slightly uglier than without them, but since you can adjust it I think it is still nice
09:12:37 <V453000> even though I have no idea what did you fix Alberth , thank you so much. :)
09:12:55 <Alberth> I have no idea either :p
09:13:09 <V453000> it shall remain a mystery I suppose
09:14:15 <Alberth> it would be nice if we could at least establish what was wrong
09:14:44 <V453000> trying to re-add x1 atm
09:14:47 <V453000> that could be a source
09:14:51 <V453000> aka the x1 template being borken
09:16:27 <V453000> compiled without problems again
09:17:15 <V453000> I was kind of hoping that the error would be there XD
09:18:50 <Alberth> eh? it points to the template instance here
09:20:15 <V453000> well the x1 just made it quite a bit uglier in some places, but other than that it is functional
09:20:34 <Alberth> what nml version do you use?
09:20:59 <V453000> will check after this compile
09:21:07 <V453000> probably not the latest
09:27:50 <V453000> downscaling methods are wtf
09:28:02 <Alberth> no improved error location reporting since then, by the looks of the log message
09:29:01 <Alberth> nmlc ERROR: "006_vehicle.nml", line 54: Read beyond bounds of image file 'opengfx_generic_trams1.png' <-- that's the error I get, near the call of "tpl()"
09:29:21 <Alberth> instead of in the middle of the template
09:30:51 <V453000> cannot idenfity image file
09:30:58 <V453000> is the error it gives me
09:31:57 <planetmaker> yes... windows nml exe does not read pcx
09:32:14 <planetmaker> windoze simply is too stupid for that :P
09:32:25 <V453000> question is if pcx isnt too stupid :P
09:32:36 <planetmaker> of course, pcx is too stupid in the first place
09:32:52 <planetmaker> but as windows introduced pcx to the world, it should recognize it. But it doesn't anymore ;)
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09:34:24 <V453000> hm my x1 downsizing method is utter shit
09:34:30 <V453000> probably broken masking
09:37:10 <V453000> I am qutie lost in the files Alberth XD
09:37:39 <Alberth> replace pcx with the *_8bpp.png
09:37:58 <Alberth> or teach your system to read pcx files :p
09:38:32 <Alberth> I'd like to know what line the error is reported
09:39:41 <Alberth> right, pointing right at the line you want to have :p
09:41:30 <Alberth> always nice if you try to reproduce issues and utterly fail
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09:51:08 <V453000> I think I will just release 0.7.8 and be done with it for now XD
09:55:51 <Alberth> if you ever manage to reproduce a report with the wrong line, either with a small example, or with public sources, please report it as a bug in nml
09:56:10 <Alberth> imho nml should also give you the template instance line
09:58:17 <Alberth> oh, it already exists: Bug #7001 but no example file :(
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10:02:53 <V453000> mathematically precise.
10:03:18 <Alberth> a rough estimate is enough :p
10:03:25 <V453000> looks like 7,65 GB here
10:03:58 <Alberth> right, at 1.6MB/s it'll be finished in 20 minutes or so
10:04:15 <Alberth> oh, no, much more even
10:04:26 <Alberth> ah well, I'll check it at the end of the day :)
10:09:10 <V453000> hm I didnt know it is that big actually
10:09:15 <V453000> was expecting like 2-3
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10:14:56 <Alberth> it stores all history
10:16:03 <planetmaker> maybe we should consider the largefiles extension for it. But ... it has rough edges. And means additional hassle
10:16:05 <Alberth> so if you change a sprite file, it saves the old and the new one
10:16:07 <planetmaker> for everyone involved
10:16:49 <Alberth> from a repo point of view, it would be best if you make lots of small graphics files
10:17:28 <Alberth> assuming you're not constantly changing every sprite :)
10:20:16 <planetmaker> very much so, yes
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10:25:01 <Alberth> I wonder if there exist programs to generate a small diff for a changed image file, and if you could hook that into mercurial
10:26:34 <Alberth> theoretically it should be possible, but it feels a bit fragile
10:26:42 <petern_> it probably makes sense to keep each object in its own image.
10:27:09 <Alberth> source code has the nice advantage people can restore things if diffs get broken
10:27:34 <petern_> Although that assumes everything is easily segregatable.
10:30:38 <V453000> creating many files is a pure pain to me
10:30:48 <V453000> I like having it in large sprite sheets
10:32:07 <planetmaker> Alberth, there do exist diffs for images or merge programmes, but ... yes, fragile and not very easy
10:38:53 <Alberth> without hg integration, it the only use is an ad-hoc update of some image, imho
10:40:03 <Alberth> I am sure I had something planned to do for today, but I completely forgot what it was :p
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10:48:47 <Alberth> that's further down the list :p
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16:01:12 <V453000> got a newly reinstalled pc :D
16:03:36 <Alberth> all nicely polished, fresh from the factory
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16:50:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27084 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-12-18 16:50:11 UTC)
16:50:16 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Improve documentation of AllocateWindowDescFront.
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18:21:06 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27085 /trunk/src (genworld_gui.cpp window_gui.h) (2014-12-18 18:20:59 UTC)
18:21:07 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Always return a valid window to the world generation gui code.
18:22:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27086 /trunk/src (newgrf_debug_gui.cpp story_gui.cpp) (2014-12-18 18:22:23 UTC)
18:22:27 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Simplify opening of windows by always returning a valid window pointer.
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22:08:43 <Bobix> hi, how do i fix the problem with industries going gung-ho quadruple too fast when playing with longer days?
22:11:32 <AmongtheSavages> i'm watching a tutorial on railways and i see two different approaches on traffic flow. one uses exit/entrace/block signals and the other block/path only.
22:11:45 <AmongtheSavages> which way is most secure and efficient?
22:14:58 <Jinassi> Bobix, from my experince, its best to plan ahead for increased production, having an efficient station and/or longer trains help
22:16:04 <Jinassi> AmongtheSavage: Depends on preference from my point of view, but I still have lots to learn. I prefer path/block, since that's what i learned 1st and try to accomodate designs accordingly
22:17:44 <Jinassi> there's not much difference imho, i know path signals let multiple trains on the same track, if paths are not crossed, but I'd rather see someone else chip in.
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22:27:08 <Bobix> Jinassi: indeed, but i want it to be more of a challenge since increasing day length effectively is cheating in this case and i don't want that
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22:35:04 <Bobix> i believe path signals are newer and were introduced to replace block/exit signals
22:46:21 <AmongtheSavages> anyone know of any good 32bpp scenarios?
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22:54:02 <AmongtheSavages> are all AI's compatible with zbase? will they mess up any 32bpp graphics?
22:54:13 <AmongtheSavages> meaning will anything turn into 8b
22:54:47 <Jinassi> AI is just comp player
22:54:55 <Jinassi> does not hack your interface
22:58:46 <argoneus> good night train friends
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