IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-11-02
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01:53:39 <argoneus> good night train friends
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06:09:28 <Flygon> Yes, that does mean the Sydney M-sets do run Windows 2k as their computer OS
06:09:35 <Flygon> Now we just need to load OTTD onto it
06:09:38 <Flygon> And play it on a train
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06:42:26 <Pikkaphone> I heard you like trains
06:42:50 <Pikkaphone> so we put some trains on your train
06:45:34 <supermop> here i am wearing shades as i read irc
06:45:44 <supermop> because my glasses broke...
06:45:50 <Sylf> YETI has ballooned to over 500MB...
07:11:02 <Pikkaphone> yeti is a little ridiculous. :)
07:16:58 <V453000> how dare you say that Pikka
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07:20:42 <Pikkaphone> is the yeti workers version out yet?
07:21:01 <Pikkaphone> is that why it's 500mb?
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07:24:29 <Alberth> yetis have been working very hard, collecting lots of bits
07:27:32 <V453000> no, just an extra industry Pikkaphone
07:27:41 <V453000> 8x4-ish with a lot of animation
07:27:46 <V453000> equals shitload of size apparently
07:28:19 <V453000> some yeti workers were added but not many
07:28:36 <V453000> they shouldnt increase the filesize drastically anyway
07:28:46 <Pikkaphone> what is the new industry?
07:30:56 <V453000> between building materials and food
07:31:04 <V453000> well, bdmt -> food, not the other way around :)
07:32:48 <V453000> well it isnt kraken anymore :D but yes
07:32:54 <Pikkaphone> do bdmt and food do different things?
07:33:29 <V453000> food increases production of yetis
07:33:35 <V453000> bdmt doubles that bonus
07:33:51 <V453000> but if you deliver only bdmt and no food, bdmt isnt even processed
07:34:00 <V453000> you need about 5 times more food than bdmt :)
07:36:31 <V453000> currently it does not really matter which way you choose - making more food just by sending more yetis to the farms, or by trading at the merchant, later trading should be more efficient
07:42:51 <Pikkaphone> still a little ridiculous :)
07:50:10 <V453000> tha refinery needs MORE pipes
07:50:27 <V453000> got a pipefixing yeti, need him to get more work
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08:19:52 <Pikkaphone> no slack in the pipes?
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08:26:10 <V453000> how is Pikkaphone progressing with his shit?
08:28:31 <peter1138> Sounds like a matter for pikka and the bowl.
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08:36:48 <Pikkaphone> actually, I finished uni last week
08:37:07 <Pikkaphone> and am starting a big project next week
08:37:27 <Pikkaphone> so any newgrfing is going to have to happen this week.
08:48:03 <Pikkaphone> if Dan would get back to me with sprites it would be
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09:21:17 <TomyLobo> a while ago i asked for a way to migrate trains to monorail/maglev without doing everything at once
09:21:35 <TomyLobo> someone recommended nutracks
09:21:51 <TomyLobo> i just tried that and it merely introduces new rail types with varying speed limits
09:24:14 <TomyLobo> nice, exactly what i want
09:31:28 <V453000> am going to try to model my first steamer
09:31:36 <V453000> how many times will I shit pants Pikkaphone ?
09:58:43 <Dakkus> Is there any generic way of recognizing a small aircraft?
09:59:06 <Dakkus> I'm playing with av9 and the usual list of course doesn't apply to it as the planes are not the same.
09:59:11 <__ln__> it doesn't flap its wings
09:59:46 <Dakkus> So... An albatross is a small aircraft but an MD-83 isn't?
10:00:26 <Dakkus> How about in OpenTTD? ;)
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10:22:45 <Pikkaphone> V: depends how "realistic" you're going to get. It doesn't have to be that complex.
10:24:15 <Pikkaphone> Dakkus: in av9, jets are big and non-jets are small. You could set a different livery colour for small aircraft if you can't tell?
10:27:01 <Dakkus> Pikkaphone: Ah, read about that livery idea but didn't get it. Now I did. Thanks!
10:29:34 <Dakkus> Okey-dokey. My small airplanes now have red engines. Thanks again :)
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10:47:06 <peter1138> ah, bad features, huh?
10:47:11 <Pikkaphone> V: are your locos going to be yeti dude ride ons?
10:47:44 <argoneus> good morning train friends
10:48:15 <Pikkaphone> different colors for different vehicle types? olde openttd feature.
10:49:52 <peter1138> Was 16 railtypes too low? Cos I had a patch to make it 32...
10:50:04 <peter1138> I'm sure that's bad too.
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10:53:42 <TomyLobo> peter1138 better would be a patch to combine rail types in a square :)
10:53:45 <TomyLobo> at least two of them
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10:56:20 <frosch123> peter1138: cets has 60 items in the rail translation table. compare that with its 54 items in the cargo translation table
10:56:51 <frosch123> so, considering that we have at max 32 cargos, i guess we need at least 64 track types
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10:57:59 <frosch123> of course that requires a searchable and filterable railtype menu
10:59:31 <frosch123> ideally newgrf could define 16 dropdown boxes to select from different underlays, gauges, weights, and electrification systems
11:00:29 <Pikkaphone> stop that ridiculous "realism" at once.
11:03:49 <V453000> Pikkaphone: no, NUTS :)
11:04:19 <Pikkaphone> they could still have yeti dude drivers. :)
11:04:35 <V453000> those are probably too bigz :)
11:05:15 <frosch123> maybe they are smaller after they worked
11:05:46 <V453000> animal express will have yeti drivers
11:06:02 <frosch123> i see, yetis riding on slugs
11:06:17 <frosch123> be careful about bridges and tunnels :)
11:08:06 <frosch123> i like how sylf deduces the acceleration model from a station layout :)
11:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, in steam, how can i view what the last popup message was? they always disappear before i can read them...
11:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't work... :/
11:21:16 <Rubidium_> ### Eclipse Workspace Patch 1.0
11:21:16 <Rubidium_> Index: source/server/com/eurailscout/ush/server/USHServerImpl.java
11:21:17 <Rubidium_> ===================================================================
11:21:17 <Rubidium_> --- source/server/com/eurailscout/ush/server/USHServerImpl.java (revision 1145)
11:21:19 <Rubidium_> +++ source/server/com/eurailscout/ush/server/USHServerImpl.java (working copy)
11:21:24 <Rubidium_> import java.rmi.RemoteException;
11:21:26 <Rubidium_> import java.sql.SQLException;
11:21:29 <Rubidium_> import java.util.ArrayList;
11:21:31 <Rubidium_> -import java.util.Arrays;
11:21:34 <Rubidium_> import java.util.Collections;
11:21:36 <Rubidium_> import java.util.Comparator;
11:21:39 <Rubidium_> import java.util.Date;
11:21:41 <Rubidium_> @@ -353,9 +352,16 @@
11:21:44 <Rubidium_> return this.covurServerWrapper;
11:21:49 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +q Rubidium_!*@*
11:21:58 <frosch123> wrong mouse button :)
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11:41:09 <peter1138> andythenorth_, alright I'm stumped, how do I get OS X on this? :S
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12:14:59 <frosch123> Alberth: can you read pickle output? :p
12:15:34 <frosch123> somehow, if i pickle the parser output of a 120k nml file, it results in 570k pickle data
12:16:24 <Alberth> trees are bigger than input text :)
12:17:17 <Alberth> pickle is not recommend in general, it's python version specific and insecure
12:17:37 <frosch123> well, but it can store and recreate any classes
12:17:54 <frosch123> with json i think i would be limited to plain dict and list
12:18:13 <Alberth> I think so too, unless you do more work
12:21:32 <frosch123> ah, i see, it pickles half of nml source :p
12:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i use pickle for temporary storage, but it's probably not useful for transferring data
12:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: now imagine someone in 50 years digging out the first iphone presentation
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13:01:03 <__ln__> by then the iPhone has probably become a two-dimensional object, while they keep innovating it 0.1 mm thinner every year.
13:04:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i think in 50 years they won't have anything in their hands anymore...
13:04:47 <Wolf01> but it will keep the same volume, if you noticed the last iphones were thinner but larger, with a bidimensional iphone they will wrap the entire Earth
13:10:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that may be possible, but it will ultimately mean that it will disappear again from the landscape, when a new quantum leap happens
13:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> like when nokia missed the quantum leap to smartphones
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14:21:03 <peter1138> Why do the forums look like ass on a mobile browser?
14:21:32 <peter1138> Apparently random font sizes.
14:25:38 <Wolf01> the web is not for mobile, mobile should have apps for everything or dedicated web versions, but that mean to rool back to early Y2K
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14:29:10 <Wolf01> and my coworker still think that responsive web designs are the right thing... just because it's nice to see a structure which changes when you resize the window
14:30:00 <Wolf01> I think that is useless to load 800Kb of javascript to handle all that on a mobile devicce which is not resizable
14:30:20 <Wolf01> 800Kb minified and compressed
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17:00:43 <Jinassi> nabend, Vinnie, how did it go yesterday? I missed the whole show on reddit server1.
17:01:21 <Jinassi> or peter1138, surely you have tried something
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17:46:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27053 /trunk/src/lang (latin.txt vietnamese.txt) (2014-11-02 17:46:34 UTC)
17:46:43 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:44 <DorpsGek> latin - 2 changes by Supercheese
17:46:45 <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 145 changes by nglekhoi
17:48:16 <peter1138> Jinassi, I guess it was destroyed or something, the company wasn't there later.
17:48:23 <peter1138> But disasters are on, so...
17:50:26 <V453000> I AM REALSTIC AS FUCK
17:50:58 <V453000> am almost spraching german
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18:09:30 <peter1138> andythenorth I can't OS X :(
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18:12:51 <V453000> yo andythenorth, NUTS will be realistic
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18:43:49 <peter1138> Which andythenorth is the real one?
18:44:16 <peter1138> You are right, though, that MacBook runs Linux nicely. Until I can find an OS X ISO or something :S
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18:48:05 <andythenorth> peter1138: did it have a USB key with it?
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18:48:25 <andythenorth> does it have an ISO on it?
18:48:29 <peter1138> With an HFS+ filesystem, with a .CDR file on it.
18:48:33 <Nathan1852> Does anybody know if there is a way in coop that both players get the same money?
18:48:46 <Xaroth|Work> Nathan1852: join the same company?
18:49:03 <andythenorth> maybe we just send you a 10.6 DVD :P
18:49:08 <andythenorth> I thought that’s what we were doing
18:49:10 <peter1138> I wrote the .cdr file to a USB stick directly, but it doesn't boot :(
18:49:27 <peter1138> And I don't have a DVD writer capable of writing more than 4.7GB :S
18:50:23 <peter1138> Silly image, being 7.2GB, hah
18:53:33 <peter1138> Maybe unetbootin will make it boot from USB, but I'm not sure how compatible that is with Macs.
18:54:30 <Nathan1852> Xaroth: We are in the same company
18:54:42 <Nathan1852> And he gets double the amount i get
18:55:05 <peter1138> The company gets money, not you.
18:55:31 <peter1138> If his money is showing double, it's probably in a different currency to you.
19:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, 1£=2$ in game logic
19:08:00 <andythenorth> peter1138: I don’t think it will boot from USB for that OS X
19:40:14 <andythenorth> without cheating
19:40:22 <andythenorth> 10 years left out of 50 :)
19:40:35 <andythenorth> frosch123: another fun game ^ ;)
19:41:02 <headbang> hmm if im playing openttd in a window and switch to it from the bananas.openttd.org my mouse acts funky
19:41:12 <headbang> cause it has some focus on the list on the website
19:41:21 <headbang> if i leave the website the game responds normal again
19:51:01 <andythenorth> also that was hm4.png, first decent map I’ve seen in ages
19:51:08 <andythenorth> peter1138: “got any more?”
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21:09:26 <George> Hi. Is it possible to check if vehicle (train) goes across snowed land or not?
21:14:29 <frosch123> George: it's possible for sprite selection, but not for changing vehicle properties
21:15:10 <frosch123> yes, that one is fine
21:15:25 <George> Good. How to check that?
21:19:26 <George> And would it be safe to change RC on snow?
21:19:33 <frosch123> snowline_height - var[0x9E, 3, 0xFF]
21:22:49 <frosch123> the result is the height above/below snowline in heightlevels
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21:23:13 <frosch123> i am not exactly sure where the snow starts exactly though
21:23:41 <planetmaker> 3/4 snow cover is where snowline height is at
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22:03:24 <peter1138> Gah, zBase sucks with rgb recolours.
22:11:37 <peter1138> Recolouring the usual suspects.
22:12:14 <peter1138> zBase only uses one of the colours, not all 8, so it's all fucked up.
22:13:07 <supermop> like only one of the 8 shades of CC?
22:13:29 <supermop> doesn't it just mask a cc area over a greyscale area?
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22:15:24 <supermop> i thought the go-to way to do CC on rendered 32bpp sprites was to leave the area to be colored grey, and then mask out that shape to be shaded in with color
22:16:55 <peter1138> Superficially. Brightness level 128 means use the remap colour's brightness.
22:18:14 <peter1138> zBase varies the brightness and uses 1 colour in the mask, which is why everything with a recolour looks flat and crap.
22:18:31 <supermop> how does pikka do it?
22:18:50 <peter1138> The 8 CC colours vary in hue as well as brightness.
22:19:19 <peter1138> In 10cc, he ignores recolours completely and has just drawn different versions of the vehicles in different colours.
22:20:14 <supermop> how does the game choose which to use with only the CC information?
22:20:45 <peter1138> It doesn't, the NewGRF chooses.
22:21:18 <supermop> well this is all far beyond my understanding
22:22:03 <supermop> but does that mean one can 'recolor' with a texturre or image instead of a color?
22:22:39 <peter1138> Sure, the recolour "mask" is actually just a regular 8bpp sprite, but most of it is transparent.
22:24:06 <supermop> could one choose between reddish, brownish, orangish, or grey bricks on a house in this manner or is that i bit too far?
22:24:32 <peter1138> Yeah, you can use recolours for that.
22:25:13 <supermop> would it be better than just having different sprites for the different brick colors?
22:25:36 <peter1138> Probably more work to be honest.
22:26:10 <peter1138> The original buildings do use recolouring quite frequently, though.
22:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's tricky to get the mask right when you use antialiasing on the image
22:27:14 <supermop> to be honest i was thinking more for painted trim am plaster, assuming those could be different pastel shades
22:28:09 <supermop> or that i could choose one random pastel shade for the plaste and one random dark shade for timbers and wrought iron
22:28:52 <supermop> today i am trying to model wrought iron in a way that looks good and not messy at scale and its a pain
22:32:27 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: i found a handful of shorter prototypical houses around, but they are certinly a minority
22:33:08 <supermop> i'll still likely throw a few in, but i assume they will predominate as they are easier to plaace
22:33:15 <planetmaker> pink... pastel pink are what the houses in this quarter are "traditionally". Looks a bit funky but one gets used to
22:33:29 <peter1138> This code is nasty :(
22:33:50 <peter1138> I doubt RGB recolours will ever see the light of day :p
22:34:04 <supermop> planetmaker: the cc pink is not quite pastel unfortunately
22:34:25 <planetmaker> supermop, you can also make your own recolour sprites :)
22:34:33 <supermop> wait, peter1138 are you talking about hypothetically recoloring cc to any rgb value?
22:34:35 <planetmaker> no need to resort to the CC pink necessarily
22:35:19 <supermop> planetmaker: maybe magenta cottages would liven things up a bit
22:35:54 <supermop> you know what would be cool - if funded industries take the CC of their founder
22:36:31 <planetmaker> supermop, you may be surprised... that can be the case. And can be enforced so by NewGRF
22:36:52 <planetmaker> not sure whether default do, those which have CC colours
22:36:59 <supermop> if i'm paying hundreds of billions of yen to build an oil refinery, i can live with other companies using it, but less so with the builders painting it pink without consulting me
22:37:42 <planetmaker> paint it pink, too!
22:38:29 <supermop> well i guess i could begrudgingly switch my cc to match
22:40:08 <supermop> i've been using green or orange (gold?) since 1994 but lately i've taken a liking to 'light blue'
22:40:53 <supermop> looks good with the yellow warning panels on the original temperate trains
22:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you're not limited to the CC colours for recolouring, you can make your own colour map (out of the original palette)
22:44:21 <supermop> oooh fiancee is using some cool text editor that colors bits of your code depending on what language you write in!
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22:47:36 <frosch123> if you using windows, the standard editor for coding is "notepad++"
22:48:00 <glx> and you can add custom languages in it too
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22:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there are still editors that don't do that?
22:50:50 <supermop> i used regular notepad last time i updated the grf i had 3-4 years ago
22:50:59 <supermop> i dont recall it being fun
22:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, anyone remember the time when "a trilogy in four parts" was meant ironically?
22:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> nowadays, every trilogy seems to come in four parts...
22:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> because the 3rd movie gets a part 1 and part 2
22:54:22 <frosch123> that does not only hold for triologies
22:54:42 <frosch123> like a septology turning into an octology
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22:55:33 <argoneus> good night train friends
22:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and the winner is peter jackson, who turned one book into three movies :p
22:58:26 <frosch123> yeah, it could be faster to read the book, than to watch the movies :p
23:00:41 <__ln__> glx: Eddi is referring to Hobbit, not LotR
23:01:36 <frosch123> 310 pages vs. 500 minutes
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23:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: something like a tarantino movie where the same 15 minute scene is repeated from 8 different perspectives
23:08:33 <frosch123> "lola rennt" was rather boring
23:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure i've ever watched that in full
23:09:14 <frosch123> sounds confirming :p
23:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i found at some point that i don't actually enjoy watching movies, so i basically stopped, except for a few times per year in the cinema
23:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and i concentrated on TV series
23:17:19 <frosch123> i never liked any series past the age of 12
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23:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it was probably too difficult to make a panel with non-continguous numbers on it :p
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