IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-10-17
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05:27:07 <Supercheese> In retrospect, perhaps I shouldn't have a custom revision in the main window there but meh
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05:41:57 <peter1138> It's not like anyone will be looking at it.
05:45:00 <Supercheese> yeah like 10 people
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07:31:52 <V453000> slugs are getting ready to get MOOOOOOVING
07:32:31 <andythenorth> RL mining trucks, the exhaust smoke comes out the sides of the body
07:32:35 <andythenorth> might look weird in game
07:42:48 <peter1138> wait, your right is on the left?
07:44:12 <peter1138> LRLRRLLRLLLLRLRLLRLLLRLL
07:44:40 <andythenorth> will I to more truck smoke?
07:44:46 <andythenorth> or will I to shower and go to work?
07:50:52 <andythenorth> articulated trucks are cropped ugly in depots
07:51:06 <andythenorth> due to way first part is cheating length
07:52:01 * andythenorth will have to do shenanigans
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07:54:21 <andythenorth> articulated trucks :P
07:54:28 <peter1138> andythenorth, not because it's cheating length, but because your offsets are wrong.
07:54:56 <andythenorth> the offsets have to be wrong
07:56:45 <andythenorth> they are deliberately wrong...
07:56:55 <andythenorth> …but I don’t see why that would crop the front of the truck in depot?
07:57:43 <andythenorth> have I got a depot template?
07:58:11 <andythenorth> apparently I have
07:58:59 <V453000> I never worked with bounding boxes actually
07:59:21 <peter1138> V453000, that explains a few things...
08:00:18 <V453000> you are invited to explain them to me? :D
08:00:19 <andythenorth> and then I learnt why I should
08:00:40 <andythenorth> how do you set up your offsets?
08:00:57 <V453000> with nuts it was tedious but it works somehow
08:02:55 <V453000> yeah that is just the default
08:02:59 <Supercheese> I guess those boxes should be higher...?
08:02:59 <peter1138> Zero effort put into your bounding boxes :p
08:03:09 <V453000> since apparently messing with z-extent caused Only issues
08:03:36 <V453000> I tried to set up some z-extent values but either trains were glitching above it or foundations showed in front of it poorly
08:03:45 <V453000> so I figured it isnt worth it, it works now?
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08:05:02 <V453000> is there any logical way how to determine z-extent?
08:05:52 <andythenorth> height of the sprite
08:07:18 <V453000> well my sprites might be 704px tall, but many of them have alpha in the upper area
08:07:20 <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah but all V453000's sprites are the samea height, just with massive amounts of transparency.
08:07:33 <peter1138> V453000 has not discovered cropping.
08:07:55 <V453000> yes I dont know everything, but it works for me with what I do know
08:09:48 <argoneus> good morning train friends
08:09:56 <argoneus> I can see we are already fucking off, quite early
08:12:11 <Supercheese> Is the transparency an issue?
08:12:25 <Supercheese> Shouldn't inflate filesize by too much...?
08:13:59 <V453000> I have no idea really, but if one -c or something is missing from compile command then it isnt really a big deal to throw shit around
08:14:17 <V453000> the png images must stay in that size, whatever nml does with it is meh to me
08:14:34 <argoneus> peter1138: is it hard to auto-crop things?
08:15:10 <peter1138> No but it messes up the animations in YETI
08:15:19 <V453000> I dont see anything messed up
08:15:29 <peter1138> Did you autocrop it?
08:15:32 <Supercheese> if the cropping messes it up, then no cropping
08:15:52 <V453000> I dont control the devzone build thing and I dont even have any idea where the command is
08:16:58 <V453000> some makefile I suppose
08:17:06 <V453000> cba checking, what do you seen messed up?
08:17:08 <peter1138> So you didn't autocrop it, so you won't have seen what happens when it's autocropped. Logic.
08:17:36 <V453000> sooooooo problem is? :D
08:20:40 <V453000> I didnt autocrop it, I get that, but how does autocrop mess up animations if it is not autocropped?
08:21:23 <V453000> then what is the issue?
08:21:42 <peter1138> The animations are messed up when autocrop is used. What's unclear about that?
08:21:58 <V453000> so the fuck is this for [10:07] <@peter1138> V453000 has not discovered cropping.
08:21:58 <Supercheese> It seems that someone has custom compiled YETI
08:22:22 <peter1138> 09:14 < argoneus> peter1138: is it hard to auto-crop things?
08:22:24 <peter1138> 09:15 <@peter1138> No but it messes up the animations in YETI
08:22:35 <peter1138> I was not talking directly to you at that point.l
08:22:51 <V453000> and the one at 9:07 your time?
08:23:06 <peter1138> Your images are not cropped, that's a fact!
08:23:32 <V453000> well the style in which it is written suggests like I should discover it XD
08:25:27 <V453000> -> how should I change my bounding boxes?
08:26:17 <argoneus> if the newgrf compiler or however it works can't autocrop the sprites
08:26:25 * argoneus has no idea how these things work, feel free to ignore him
08:26:31 <V453000> it can, we ignore you. :)
08:26:56 <argoneus> then I have to get back to work :D
08:29:18 <peter1138> The problem is the spec.
08:31:19 <V453000> sooo the whole discussion gets back to that I did basically all I could
08:31:42 <peter1138> Not really, cropping works fine. *auto* cropping has limitation.
08:31:53 <peter1138> limitation disturb me very sprites
08:32:06 <argoneus> but in the end, it doesn't even matter
08:32:21 <peter1138> But cropping saves 20MB from the GRF file, so...
08:32:59 <V453000> -> what do you want me to do better?
08:37:16 <peter1138> Heh, decoding and reencoding it takes ages :D
08:38:25 <V453000> last compile took 3h:41m
08:41:43 <peter1138> Ah I see your commented out extents in the pnml.
08:42:08 <peter1138> (extends == bounding boxes)
08:42:30 <V453000> as I said, they were causing wtf and I couldnt figure out what to actually use then
08:42:33 <V453000> default works best so far
08:42:43 <peter1138> They're game units.
08:42:58 <peter1138> X is from NE to SW, Y is from NW to SE.
08:43:03 <peter1138> A tile is 16 by 16 units.
08:43:28 <peter1138> So a sprite that covers the full area of a tile would be xextent: 16 yextent: 16
08:44:05 <peter1138> zextent would be the height, probably /4
08:44:26 <V453000> or heigt from one point
08:44:46 <peter1138> not quite, height from the xoffset/yoffset
08:44:59 <peter1138> which, at 0x0 is the top corner of the tile
08:45:13 <argoneus> it takes 4 hrs to make yeti?
08:45:30 <peter1138> V453000, so yeah, -128
08:45:44 <V453000> cant say I understand :D
08:45:51 <V453000> argoneus: yes, on a powerful pc :)
08:45:54 <peter1138> V453000, they're 3d coordinates.
08:46:00 <argoneus> how powerful is powerful?
08:46:10 <V453000> enough. :) some nice i7
08:46:12 <argoneus> though to make 3d art I suppose an i5/i7/xeon is in order
08:46:46 <peter1138> V453000, is that just compiling or including rendering?
08:46:54 <V453000> only compiling of course
08:46:58 <V453000> rendering is a lot more
08:47:10 <V453000> typically around 8 hours per animation on one computer
08:47:30 <argoneus> with the ball rolling down
08:47:33 <argoneus> that takes 8 hours???
08:47:34 <peter1138> I wonder... has anyone tried rewriting nml in C? :p
08:47:37 <V453000> but some industries like clay pit or forest which use a lot of displacement take ~30 minutes per frame, luckily there is only one frame
08:47:41 <andythenorth> peter1138: not yet
08:47:55 <andythenorth> it’s been considered
08:47:56 <V453000> argoneus that one might take even more because there it is important to have high settings due to the "water"
08:48:38 <peter1138> Mind you, I unpacked and am repacking this with grfcodec, so... still slow.
08:48:42 <argoneus> and I thought rendering videos in sony vegas took too long
08:49:04 <andythenorth> come back in 10 years
08:49:06 <andythenorth> faster computers
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08:50:01 <V453000> andy that has been said 10 years ago too :P
08:50:04 <V453000> rendering times still fucklong
08:50:08 <argoneus> did you guys see the video
08:50:13 <V453000> requirements just increase too :)
08:50:15 <argoneus> where the guy was coding with oculus rift
08:50:23 <V453000> requirements/possibilities
08:50:38 <argoneus> he was walking around on some 3d plane, with source code hovering in air, he edited it, and things in the 3d plane changed accordingly
08:50:56 <peter1138> Hmm, yeah, that was it, child sprites are required to have the same offset/dimensions as their parent sprite.
08:51:14 <peter1138> However, it is not possible for autocrop to know which sprite is or isn't a child sprite.
08:51:32 <andythenorth> 10 years ago I couldn’t play multiple HD streams with effects in real-time on a laptop NLE
08:51:39 <andythenorth> stuff gets better
08:51:41 <peter1138> Wonder if that's fixable.
08:57:08 <peter1138> I've seen that before haven't I?
08:57:19 <andythenorth> is it hilarious?
08:57:28 * andythenorth is having humour bypass this morning
08:58:58 * argoneus is having no fun allowed this morning
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09:53:11 <Flygon> argoneus: I wish I could say I was entirely surprised
09:53:34 <Flygon> Gah. You get my point. x.x
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10:11:19 <planetmaker> peter1138, the longest time in yeti processing is iirc the graphics encoding. If you compile yeti once, it takes you with nml about 4 hours. The 2nd run, where you only change a few graphics or a bit code, would go much faster due to nml's caching of sprites
10:15:22 <Celestar> good day planetmaker
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10:31:40 <planetmaker> lol. 18k revisions ago :P
10:32:54 <peter1138> You could do a nice .nl map...
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10:33:14 <planetmaker> and then kill a dike
10:33:21 <planetmaker> and see people start swearing
10:33:30 <planetmaker> especially when you have astronomical TF costs
10:34:27 <V453000> regardless, real rivers/lakes would be amazing
10:34:35 <V453000> not mentioning tunnels under shit
10:34:51 <peter1138> V453000, yeah, making rivers more like sea...
10:34:58 <peter1138> And then only use the river slow tiles.
10:35:42 <V453000> just define sea level, rivers just flow above :P
10:36:27 <peter1138> Just change the flooding rules for river tiles
10:36:40 <peter1138> So that a single river can't accidentally flood the whole map
10:36:59 <peter1138> Basically... make them flow ;p
10:37:07 <peter1138> Wait wrong thing :S
10:41:20 <peter1138> But less spready-outy and more flowy-owy
10:42:06 <V453000> with terraformed canyon for it or on flat land?
10:42:26 <V453000> the terraformed canyon can be filled so it looks like flat land :)
10:43:34 <peter1138> Then all rivers would be 3 tiles wide
10:44:12 <V453000> the canyon can miss the flat tile
10:44:22 <V453000> which would still be nice I think
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10:54:50 <andythenorth> terrain would be much more interesting with rivers carved
10:55:52 <andythenorth> if we could flow rivers, then we probably get better alpine valleys, we get plains with canyons etc
10:56:11 <andythenorth> simple terrain gen, chuck a bit of noise in, flow river, chuck a bit more noise in again
10:56:18 <andythenorth> what could go wrong?
11:26:50 <argoneus> implement water physics
11:44:33 <peter1138> Floods already exist!
11:44:52 <peter1138> Hmm, I've not played a game with disasters on for years.
11:47:47 <lugo> well ehm, someone who did has to update the wiki then :)
11:52:22 <argoneus> I think mountains should always have patches of snow on them above a certain height level
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11:53:41 <andythenorth> subarctic terrain much?
11:54:04 <argoneus> but even in temperate
11:54:09 <argoneus> if you have 250 height level
11:54:13 <argoneus> there ought to be some ice
11:54:40 <argoneus> or I dunno how much one height level is in real life meters
11:56:37 <Jinassi> if i recall corectly i think it is 24m
11:57:35 <peter1138> Yeah there are no snow sprites for temperate
11:57:50 <peter1138> All those buildings...
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12:07:03 <argoneus> does anyone even play toyland
12:09:22 <lugo> It's on planet mars now, so nobody can play it...
12:20:34 <argoneus> V453000: is that why you made NUTS?
12:21:32 <V453000> not related really, but yes nuts does support toyland
12:24:17 <V453000> nuts is made for functionality not related to any climate :) it treats all climates equally
12:26:03 <argoneus> I've seen people complain about NUTS
12:26:11 <argoneus> that there's no challenge in picking the right train
12:26:19 <argoneus> that you just directly upgrade to the newer model only
12:26:36 <peter1138> Then they should play a different set.
12:28:30 <andythenorth> there’s no challenge in picking the default vehicles either
12:28:49 <andythenorth> are vehicle picking challenges interesting?
12:29:17 <peter1138> V453000, Have you considered NUAS, NUSS and NURS?
12:30:18 <argoneus> NUSS already exists, it's called FISH
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12:31:02 <peter1138> unFinISHed more like.
12:32:46 <lugo> it's squid shit already, sorry for my language..
12:33:24 <Jinassi> altough the last catamaran is a bit buggy
12:33:46 <Jinassi> if it goes sideways, it drops its anchor and procrastinates
12:34:21 <V453000> argoneus: no challenge in picking the right train? XD
12:34:28 <V453000> I bet none of them even have the ability to get the right train
12:34:50 <V453000> also no NUAS NUSS or NURS :)
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12:37:51 <V453000> newer model is obvious, but you have to choose which class, and that is not easy
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13:05:28 <Jinassi> Any issues reported about mac client? I think Terkhen said it was asking for some permission when he tried it.
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13:36:21 <andythenorth> has cat rejoined?
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14:13:56 <andythenorth> cat should use create_effect
14:15:21 <__ln__> [1]BB: andythenorth doesn't count as anyone, or what?
14:15:56 <andythenorth> hi [1]BB what a lovely nick
14:26:39 <Jinassi> Bungee, join #/r/openttd too
14:27:30 <peter1138> What a silly channel name.
14:28:09 <Xaroth|Work> something something reddit I'd imagine
14:28:39 <[1]BB> Can't find that channel on this network.
14:30:05 <Jinassi> use /join #/r/openttd methinks
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15:18:35 <andythenorth> V453000: boar screw or bore screw?
15:18:40 <andythenorth> one is illegal in most countries
15:20:49 <argoneus> then again in denmark you can identify as a train and have train marriages
15:23:05 <Rubidium> V453000: I don't see anything that fulfills the job description "dictator"... ;)
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15:45:40 <andythenorth> I’m not sure YETI is very realistic
15:45:50 <andythenorth> keep trying though
15:45:53 <andythenorth> you’ll get there
15:46:27 <Jinassi> You are not Aladeen enough to fill in that job description.
15:49:28 <liq3> V453000: is that a mushroom cloud reflected in the Oil Refinery?
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16:15:48 <Alberth> new slug inhabitants at the farm, I see
16:17:04 <Alberth> doesn't the ore mine need a "block measurer" ?
16:22:10 <Alberth> :o yard also has a new pet
16:28:50 <andythenorth> what shall we make next?
16:31:27 <Alberth> is that a real question or a rhetorical one? (although I have no answer for the real variant atm)
16:31:57 <Alberth> oh, yeti dude support in iron horse?
16:43:02 <andythenorth> make more diesel smoke
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17:11:52 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 25 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Pikka> hi
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17:29:28 <andythenorth> so I could use the steam effect spawn
17:30:06 <andythenorth> and in the cb, check if the vehicle is at top speed or not
17:30:16 <andythenorth> with maybe some random
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17:47:01 <V453000> andythenorth: of course it should be bore :) I even knew about it but forgot to change it at the last moments :D
17:47:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27022 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-10-17 17:46:54 UTC)
17:47:05 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:47:06 <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 2 changes by telanus
17:47:07 <DorpsGek> swedish - 3 changes by spacejens
17:47:09 <DorpsGek> welsh - 9 changes by kazzie
17:48:16 <V453000> Rubidium: sorry we cannot hire you at the moment :P
17:50:37 <V453000> Alberth: yes to everything :(
17:52:11 <Alberth> I wondered what lies behind the farm :)
17:53:59 * Alberth applies as block measurer
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18:00:16 <V453000> :D block measurer isnt completely out of the question
18:00:35 <V453000> but the things are in the blocks in general so I dont think they need to be measured :)
18:01:22 <Alberth> you don't need to know what volume you ship?
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18:04:29 <andythenorth> can we tell if a road vehicle is turning?
18:04:58 <frosch123> i have a feeling that the "animal feeder" will turn into a "fooder" when reaching the pigcow on the very right
18:05:33 <frosch123> hmm, the slug is new, isn't it?
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18:07:06 <frosch123> euh... "watering supply officer" sounds disgusting
18:07:38 <peter1138> Ok, so apparently that innocous button sets everything on my NAS to chmod 777
18:07:59 <frosch123> sounds like a windows feature
18:08:31 <Alberth> frosch123: you can suggest other jobs as well :)
18:08:36 <peter1138> Yeah probably designed to work around some shit.
18:08:56 <Alberth> mostly around people pressing random buttons :p
18:09:44 <andythenorth> what’s the nml constant for breakdown smoke?
18:09:50 <andythenorth> or plane breakdown smoke
18:09:56 * andythenorth could look in the src probly
18:10:30 <andythenorth> EFFECT_SPRITE_AIRCRAFT_BREAKDOWN_SMOKE
18:10:34 <andythenorth> for those who wondered
18:10:47 <andythenorth> more news after the break :P
18:11:14 <frosch123> oh, was the oil refinery already as shiny the last time? what does the reflection show?
18:12:08 <andythenorth> aircraft breakdown smoke
18:12:27 <frosch123> somehow i get the feeling that all industries consume a yeti every now and then
18:13:00 <frosch123> better now work there :)
18:13:05 <peter1138> Anyway, it's mostly not executables, so I'm letting find/chmod churn it over :S
18:13:38 <peter1138> At least the NAS does give me ssh root access, even if it's only meant to be a diagnostic feature.
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18:35:58 <andythenorth> 3 different colours of smoke for RVs
18:36:48 <Alberth> sounds a bit much-ish
18:38:24 <Supercheese> "Random suicidal employee" haha
18:41:55 <andythenorth> normal steam smoke, normal diesel smoke, black smoke
18:43:31 <Alberth> white stuff looks a bit weird for some reason
18:43:52 <Alberth> although I guess you could have steam at a breakdown
18:44:00 <Supercheese> No custom smoke sprites possible yet hmm
18:44:44 <andythenorth> so uses same sprites as steam trains
18:59:20 <peter1138> Why can I not have a ship that carries passengers and mail...
18:59:56 <b_jonas> a ferry? sure you can.
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19:02:00 <FLHerne> b_jonas: No such thing as multi-cargo ships in OTTD
19:02:05 <Supercheese> or rather, not at the same time
19:02:12 <Supercheese> it can autorefit back and forth
19:07:11 <Rubidium> peter1138: because ships don't have shadows
19:07:27 <b_jonas> oh, you want passengers AND mails?
19:07:58 <peter1138> Rubidium, correct answer!
19:08:43 <FLHerne> Put it in the smoke, so that grfs can transport extra cargoes by simply adding more chimneys? :P
19:10:06 <andythenorth> peter1138: just get two ships
19:10:13 <andythenorth> route capacity is infinite anyway
19:10:27 <Alberth> looks more pretty as well
19:10:57 <frosch123> FLHerne: better service short lines then, else all cargo will be steamed away
19:11:10 * Rubidium wonders why choppers aren't tri-cargo
19:11:52 <frosch123> to prevent fonso from turning completely insane
19:15:38 <peter1138> Is that strictly necessary?
19:20:55 <Alberth> choppers aren't big enough for three cargoes
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19:21:10 <andythenorth> fox, chicken, grain
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19:45:07 <peter1138> It would be cool if windows could actually be separate windows...
19:52:10 <andythenorth> probably about 30 crates I reckon
19:52:25 <andythenorth> dunno how many yetis that is
19:53:09 <Wolf01> is there any good site to find out N scale dioramas? (maybe not custom built)
19:53:45 <andythenorth> you mean a ready-made train track?
19:54:28 <andythenorth> at least one of the german companies used to do them
19:54:37 <Alberth> your local model building club?
19:55:02 <Alberth> a magazine aimed at that public?
19:55:43 <peter1138> Hmm, not a single city on this map.
19:55:52 <andythenorth> hmm loads of ebay
19:55:55 <peter1138> Only 9 towns though, mind you.
19:59:10 <andythenorth> Wolf01: maybe build your own?
19:59:14 * andythenorth doesn’t miss toy trains
19:59:41 <Wolf01> but my house lacks of space
19:59:49 <mgrunin> rollercoaster tycoon is much better than ttd
20:00:53 <andythenorth> is that an acronym?
20:01:00 <Wolf01> oh, about RC, they released RC4 mobile... it's like "4.99$ for 100 track pieces"
20:02:21 <mgrunin> ttd is for virgins rct for normal people
20:04:51 <andythenorth> what about theme park?
20:06:58 <mgrunin> designed for elementary school kids bookfairs
20:08:35 <Belugas> mgrunin, so what do you do in this channel then? You're going back in childhood? heheh
20:09:22 <mgrunin> im studying autistic people
20:09:27 <andythenorth> good place for it
20:09:36 <andythenorth> very good selection here
20:09:57 <andythenorth> especially we like people who can use ‘
20:11:00 <peter1138> a simple ' will do, but maybe andythenorth prefers the ‘
20:11:14 <andythenorth> peter1138: bit of an obsessive comment
20:11:15 <peter1138> Er, ‘ and ’ are the same in this font :(
20:11:27 <andythenorth> also, let’s be correct
20:11:39 <frosch123> hmm, i miss the day's when ' was u'sed a's 's announcement
20:11:42 <Belugas> i prefer people with the @ in front huhuhuh
20:11:44 <andythenorth> “andythenorth prefers an irc client which has made up rules about ‘"
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20:12:18 *** andythenorth is now known as mgrunin2
20:17:02 *** mgrunin2 is now known as andythenorth
20:22:18 <peter1138> when do the heliports (any) become available?
20:25:45 <andythenorth> pinkish-red colour
20:25:52 <andythenorth> natural, no flavour
20:26:37 <peter1138> oh shit i have infrastructure maintenance on :S
20:26:53 <peter1138> bye bye all my money :p[
20:27:27 <peter1138> £120k/yr for the airports
20:28:30 <peter1138> i think i'll sell that off before it kills me
20:28:36 <andythenorth> should I release a Hog alpha or something?
20:29:26 *** bobbity has joined #openttd
20:29:31 <bobbity> oompa loompa loompady doo
20:29:43 *** bobbity has joined #openttd
20:30:10 <peter1138> back to £12/ky total
20:30:27 <planetmaker> @kban bobbity 600
20:30:27 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: bobbity is not in #openttd.
20:30:48 <orudge> was just me testing the new web chat :p
20:31:05 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: 'bobbity' is not a valid nick or hostmask.
20:31:32 <peter1138> let's ban otfc-webi@* then
20:31:36 <peter1138> can't have it working
20:31:47 <andythenorth> he didn’t like my kind
20:31:51 <andythenorth> thought I was too leisurely
20:32:55 <andythenorth> not something to look at on a Friday night
20:32:59 * andythenorth closes that browser
20:36:07 <Belugas> yeah! i drink to that!
20:37:32 <andythenorth> no cashflow, no beerflow
20:37:38 <andythenorth> have a new Road Hog
20:37:44 <andythenorth> alpha-4 on bananaramas
20:37:57 <andythenorth> it’s pretty crap, apart from the pretty bits
20:38:28 * Belugas looks down on his coffee mug. Looks up to the clock ticking. thinks he needs to go home soon. then go to party. where there will be beer!
20:46:17 <andythenorth> there is a Cloud Hill truck in Road Hog
20:46:20 <andythenorth> but it’s not that one
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continue to next day ⏵
