IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-10-05
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03:18:02 <liq3> Polyline tool should be in trunk. It's so great. <3
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04:50:00 <SHOTbyGUN> so depending on the "days on delivery" you get payment... is there any way to see what gets delivered in time? ... I mean its quite hard to calculate distance tiles + timetable days and fit it to the cargo payment graph :/ ?
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06:45:39 <andythenorth> Pikka: wogans done?
06:48:19 <andythenorth> will there be livestock cars forever?
06:48:40 <andythenorth> is there milk tanker?
06:48:50 <Pikka> there is a "chemical tanker"
06:48:57 <Pikka> actually there might be more tankers, I'll decide when I get there
06:49:08 <andythenorth> cabeese in 2 flavours!
06:49:14 <V453000> are there batteries and yeti dudes on flatbeds?
06:49:27 <Pikka> since magically-changing-the-wagon according to cargo is now verboten
06:49:56 <andythenorth> separate woodchip
06:50:09 <Pikka> since magically-changing-the-wagon according to cargo is now verboten
06:50:13 <andythenorth> if I don’t have woodchips, what goes in it
06:50:24 <andythenorth> and how many woodchips can a woodchip chip?
06:50:35 <andythenorth> if a woodchip could chip wood
06:50:38 <V453000> universal wagon = best feature regarding wagons :P
06:50:46 <andythenorth> V453000: your views are noted
06:50:52 <andythenorth> and the commitee will consider them
06:50:55 <Pikka> v, there are yeti dudes on flatbeds
06:51:01 <Pikka> yeti dudes in boxes on flatbeds
06:51:15 <andythenorth> yeti dudes hiding in boxcars
06:51:30 <V453000> boring, just like other older sets, everything in boxes, covered, boxcars, inside tankers, nothing is visible
06:51:40 <Pikka> this is other older sets
06:51:43 <Supercheese> hoppers always had visible stuffs
06:51:56 <V453000> doesnt matter Pikka:)
06:52:05 <andythenorth> V453000: when are you doing transparent pipes
06:52:17 <V453000> dono, but will be doing track set ~soon
06:52:35 <Pikka> V453000, provide me with a yeti dude and I'll put him on a flatcar for pineapple
06:55:34 <Supercheese> some in repo innit
06:59:43 <V453000> Pikka: there isnt any yet XD
06:59:53 <V453000> that comes soon(tm) too :)
07:00:24 <andythenorth> today is a not-grfing day
07:04:05 <andythenorth> oh this big gui :)
07:16:13 <V453000> andythenorth: iron whores on our welcome server btw :)
07:19:27 <andythenorth> what are they doing with it?
07:19:33 <andythenorth> 155mph coal trains everywhere?
07:22:47 <V453000> uranium felt more interesting
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08:10:39 <argoneus> good morning, train friends
08:12:59 <peter1138> My friends are well trained. They've never pissed on the carpet.
08:27:02 <DorpsGek> peter1138: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 52 weeks, 0 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
08:28:23 <Rubidium> that bot really needs to learn to remove insignificant "digits"
08:28:52 <Rubidium> bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 years ago holds about as much useful informatie
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08:39:36 <Taede> Xaroth|Work, does libopenttd use poll/epoll again? or something else?
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08:44:59 <andythenorth> will I make a pipelines grf?
08:45:19 <Alberth> what good will it do?
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09:04:55 <andythenorth> it will be like PIPE grf, which is good, but I would make a stripped down version
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09:08:30 <peter1138> Add it as a new transport type.
09:08:45 <peter1138> It doesn't need vehicles, just pumps.
09:09:07 <peter1138> Or whatever pipelines use.
09:10:00 <andythenorth> works surprisingly well as trains
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09:34:22 <Pikka> ying tong yiddle I pinge
09:38:17 <Pikka> and I have a date with destiny, and/or dinner. bbl.
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10:00:26 <peter1138> Hmm, need to fix that max-zoom/gui-zoom conflict :p
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10:18:43 <peter1138> 532 UpdateCursorSize();
10:18:43 <peter1138> 533 ReInitAllWindows();
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10:39:37 <andythenorth> animation for the ‘pipe’ tiles (with framerate matched to flow)
10:39:49 <andythenorth> propogation along the tiles when flow stops / starts
10:40:07 <andythenorth> max flow capacity
10:40:12 <Alberth> obivously, pipes should be vertical, as in cat channel | grep andy
10:41:06 <andythenorth> dunno about routing / branching
10:42:02 <andythenorth> design it for ‘pipes'
10:42:19 <andythenorth> but could also do wires, travelators, cableways etc
10:42:20 <Alberth> gets a bit tricky with train-ish things doesn't it?
10:42:33 <andythenorth> we haven’t tried it :)
10:42:53 <andythenorth> Pikka: EMC or EMD for the E3?
10:43:09 <Pikka> they didn't become EMD until 1940, apparently
10:43:13 <andythenorth> not a fat-fingers then
10:43:26 <andythenorth> F59PH sticks out the depot row, is that just a tall sprite?
10:43:54 <Pikka> it is a tall sprite, yes
10:44:52 <frosch123> pipes are even boring in factorio
10:45:35 <andythenorth> Pikka: I would delete the SD9 and level the wagon speeds out, but you know, that’s me :P
10:46:08 <andythenorth> it’s really nice to have cabbage and things separate
10:46:59 <Pikka> hidden things are bad features :)
10:47:18 <Pikka> I wonder how many olde NARS players know the aerotrain is in there?
10:47:31 <andythenorth> there’s an aerotrain? :o
10:47:57 <Pikka> in the current NARS, yes. you get it by putting passenger cars behind an SW1200. but who would do that if they didn't know?
10:48:11 <Pikka> in the new NARS it's there as its own thing. :P
10:48:13 <argoneus> did anyone say BAD FEATURE
10:48:26 <andythenorth> oh someone showed me that SW1200 thing once
10:48:35 <andythenorth> because it’s the same running gear underneath, or something?
10:48:46 <andythenorth> mystery meat navigation ;)
10:48:53 <andythenorth> acela with bi-levels!
10:49:04 <andythenorth> I like that the pax cars still randomise
10:49:22 <andythenorth> livery over-ride for high speed cars
10:50:27 <andythenorth> all kinds of magic
10:50:31 <andythenorth> I think that’s the right kind of magic
10:50:50 <andythenorth> what pulls the talgos?
10:50:54 <andythenorth> some kind of engine I guess
10:51:04 <Pikka> anything which doesn't have an override
10:51:52 <Pikka> "realistically" they shouldn't be talgos so early, but I wanted the high speed cars there for the turbo.
10:52:12 <Pikka> so unless someone wants to draw me some alternative high-speed car graphics... :)
10:52:59 <andythenorth> only negative on the pax over-rides: I keep getting bi-level and superliner confused when they’re both grey
10:53:22 <Pikka> when are they both grey?
10:53:34 <andythenorth> when in the emu (for example)
10:53:57 <Pikka> yeah, the EMU has an override for the bilevel, which is its "proper" carriage.
10:54:21 <andythenorth> that’s the only one I could find
10:54:30 <Pikka> but there's no harm to putting superliners in there...
10:54:36 <andythenorth> enough difference between superline and bi-level stats?
10:54:51 <Pikka> superliner is faster but lower capacit
10:55:03 <Pikka> in olde nars they were the same wagon, just different player liveries
10:56:32 <andythenorth> I’d probably just build the lightweight car if I cared about speed
10:56:39 <andythenorth> 25mph faster, only 10pax fewer
10:57:35 <Pikka> but if the loco doesn't do 125... :)
10:57:41 <andythenorth> yeah, I was just looking at that
10:57:52 <andythenorth> so with F40 it makes sense
10:58:01 <Pikka> it's NARS, anyway. it's all about choices. That's why there's the GP9 and SD9 :P
10:58:06 <andythenorth> I nearly added autoracks to Iron Horse
10:58:22 <andythenorth> but decided they are faff to draw, and pointless for gameplay
10:58:28 <Pikka> and the FA, and the RS3, and the Shark... all essentially the same
10:58:35 <andythenorth> but at least you can have realistic FEMA trains with NARS
10:58:38 <frosch123> andythenorth: i am reading the forums
10:58:54 <frosch123> i checked less than 5 topics, and two of them already confused me :)
10:59:19 <andythenorth> can we translate for you? o_O
10:59:27 <frosch123> "P.S., the TTD graphics don't really suit OpenTTD" <- how about that?
10:59:38 <andythenorth> he’s about 12 years old
10:59:55 <andythenorth> it’s quite easy to guess for a native english speaker :)
11:00:01 <andythenorth> I nearly replied
11:00:06 <andythenorth> but I don’t want to pick on 12 year olds
11:01:53 <andythenorth> what shall I call this pipeline grf?
11:02:16 <frosch123> "Tried replacing "unique_ptr" with "shared_ptr", but that didn't solve the compilation problem on the Mac." <- on to the 4th topic
11:02:40 <andythenorth> that’s about a patch pack?
11:02:47 <andythenorth> I ignore everything to do with patch packs
11:02:58 <andythenorth> which is interesting
11:03:09 <andythenorth> patch packs might be where the interesting new stuff gets worked out
11:05:53 <peter1138> TTD graphics don't suit OpenTTD? Really? :S
11:06:56 <frosch123> peter1138: i am just trying to prove, that forums have no interesting content, but can provide some wtf lines
11:20:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26960 /trunk/src (12 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-05 11:20:02 UTC)
11:20:10 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Draw sort button symbols as sprites, and pad sort buttons with non-static width.
11:21:02 <andythenorth> pipeline grf. Snake?
11:21:08 <peter1138> sort buttons are no longer tiny
11:23:05 <peter1138> Need to figure out how to handle the vehicle type icons, which are drawn as text.
11:23:41 <peter1138> Could just do them all as new sprites, which would allow... colours.
11:24:25 <andythenorth> close box is a special symbol, or just an X?
11:24:51 <peter1138> It's a separate symbol.
11:26:33 <andythenorth> a few of the gui sprites could use a tweak
11:26:39 <andythenorth> I like them plain block
11:26:58 <peter1138> Sure that's not the real reason to change them.
11:27:12 <peter1138> As they're drawn as text, they don't get doubled up, as you can see.
11:27:30 <andythenorth> you can’t just double font size?
11:27:36 * andythenorth has no idea about the UI implementation
11:28:13 <peter1138> Possibly. There's special code to explicitly not scale font sprites.
11:29:13 <andythenorth> I can likely draw missing UI sprites if that’s better
11:29:13 <peter1138> Hmm, I suppose it would save needing to use freetype fonts, heh
11:29:49 <peter1138> I can draw them as sprites, but I'd need to emulate the font-sprite recolouring.
11:30:38 <peter1138> Might just try doubling the font completely.
11:30:52 <peter1138> s/doubling/scaling/
11:31:06 <frosch123> how many strings are there which use these symbols?
11:31:18 <frosch123> can we somehow deprecate them? and draw those strings differently?
11:31:30 <peter1138> I don't there are any static strings.
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11:32:43 <frosch123> STR_JUST_CHECKMARK and {CHECKMARK} could be deleted
11:33:18 <peter1138> The station features are magic code inside strings.cpp
11:33:54 <frosch123> hmm, so mostly station window and station list
11:33:59 <peter1138> Which can easily be replaced by icon buttons.
11:34:04 <frosch123> those windows could also be drawn differently
11:34:25 <frosch123> e.g. the station list would be better anyway, if those symbols would be aligned in columns
11:36:31 <frosch123> vehicle indicators would be tricky
11:37:01 <frosch123> loading percentage arrows are obv. drawn as strings
11:37:17 <peter1138> Hmm, forgot about them.
11:37:39 <frosch123> haha, {COPYRIGHT}... the most important sign
11:37:47 <peter1138> I don't think that matters.
11:37:58 <frosch123> well, but that is provided by real fonts
11:38:04 <frosch123> so yes, does not matter
11:39:22 <peter1138> Thing is, if you are still using default font and double ui (for some reason) some of those small icons might be appropriate
11:40:08 <frosch123> huh? i do not mean to remove them, i just mean to not include them in strings, but draw them separate
11:41:48 <b_jonas> it's used in lots of texts and provided by real fonts because it happens to be in iso-8859-1
11:41:56 <andythenorth> if you do want any drawn, make a list and let me know ;)
11:42:14 <peter1138> b_jonas, not talking about ©
11:43:06 <b_jonas> what then? arrows? station vehicle type icons?
11:43:23 <frosch123> b_jonas: the problem is to scale font and icons independently
11:44:10 <frosch123> icons not provided by fonts have less sizeing options
11:44:26 <peter1138> Hmm, that's an idea...
11:44:45 <frosch123> peter1138: alternatively, arrows also have unicode code points
11:44:54 <frosch123> so, if we are lucky, most fonts provide them
11:45:08 <b_jonas> my monospaced font happens to provide the arrows
11:46:23 <b_jonas> yep, I have the last four
11:46:36 <frosch123> 27F5 27F6 2190-2193
11:47:07 <b_jonas> ←↑→↓ plus also ↔↕↨⇐⇒⇔
11:47:15 <frosch123> hmm, SMALL_LEFT_ARROW is just the font size?
11:49:27 <argoneus> I've been wondering, do you guys actually play this game
11:49:52 <b_jonas> what? there's a game we can play?
11:50:52 <frosch123> unicode has a symbol for "icy road", but none for train, road or similar
11:51:18 <frosch123> argoneus: this channel is the game
11:51:35 <frosch123> no idea what you are talking about
12:16:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: who’s winning though?
12:16:58 <andythenorth> do we have a leaderboard?
12:17:50 <frosch123> it's a cooperative game
12:19:02 <frosch123> the score is 'stuff created' or so
12:19:08 * andythenorth remembers coop doom
12:19:17 <andythenorth> it was always better to turn off ‘same team damage’
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12:45:48 <andythenorth> he fixed the cheat menu :)
12:46:16 <andythenorth> so is the minimap font size a setting already?
12:46:28 <andythenorth> I never looked into font settings
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13:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but cfg-only
13:05:46 <peter1138> Fixed the cheat menu?
13:06:38 <andythenorth> it was borked yesterday
13:06:41 <andythenorth> today it is pretty
13:07:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: monosize?
13:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> if year >= variant.intro_date and year < variant.end_date: <-- btw. in python you can write that as "intro <= year < end"
13:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> this will NOT work in C(++)
13:08:44 <Eddi|zuHause> or most other languages
13:09:11 <peter1138> andythenorth, well I've not touched that bit since when you tried... unless you weren't using the current revision at that point...
13:09:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: thanks, neat
13:09:47 <peter1138> Didn't you update yesterday?
13:10:15 <andythenorth> anyway, it’s fixed \o/
13:10:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that is better syntax imho
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13:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, it's probably written by a disgruntled maths person who always wrote these expressions on paper, but never could put them into code :p
13:21:14 <andythenorth> where is DanMacK when I need him? :)
13:22:00 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it is physically impossible that you two can occupy the same IRC channel at the same time :p
13:23:16 <andythenorth> maybe it’s a fight club scenario
13:49:01 <peter1138> Amazon Prime weirdness: it's cheaper to order something on Saturday and have it arrive Sunday (when traditionally nothing is delivered), than to order on Saturday and have it turn up during the week.
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14:01:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26961 trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp (2014-10-05 14:01:44 UTC)
14:01:51 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: GUI-scale for landscape editor terraform window.
14:18:24 <Flygon> Is that Australian????
14:18:52 <Flygon> I have ZERO idea what those are
14:19:03 <Flygon> And I'm a bit of a gunzel *blinkblink* ._.
14:19:08 <Flygon> I'll refer them to my friends
14:19:36 <andythenorth> carries liquid steel
14:20:04 <Flygon> Okay, it's New South Welsh
14:20:09 <Flygon> Definitely James's territory
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14:20:38 <Flygon> (QLD lacks much of an SG network, and WA is the only other place I can think with a smelter and an SG network)
14:21:04 <Flygon> <James> That looks like near Wollongon/Port Kembla
14:21:04 <Flygon> <James> Bluescope Steel industrial park or near there
14:21:33 <Flygon> <James> Mostly because I've driven past there quite a few times
14:21:34 <Flygon> <James> It funking stinks near there
14:21:34 <Flygon> <Flygon> I'll also copypasta that to #openttd
14:22:44 <Flygon> I'm just astounded to see something Australian pop up in #openttd. Night, y'all. And have fun!
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14:25:10 <frosch123> Flygon: you can find those in any steel mill
14:26:10 <andythenorth> what did I do to offend you :(
14:26:48 <Alberth> torpedo wagons look great
14:27:22 <andythenorth> I am a bit tempted to add things to Iron Horse brit roster
14:27:32 <andythenorth> might be better to make a special roster
14:27:36 <andythenorth> like HEQS, but for trains
14:27:47 <Alberth> australian roster, it seems :p
14:29:56 <andythenorth> maybe if I play a game, I’ll be inspired to fix Road Hog some more
14:30:04 <andythenorth> I need a new GS though :P
14:31:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: set max station spread to 5 :p
14:32:01 <frosch123> then you will find road vehicle use cases :)
14:33:31 <andythenorth> openttd on 1680x1050 13” screen :P
14:33:31 <argoneus> why does it say 64 might cause performance problems anywya?
14:33:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: I have cases :)
14:33:44 <andythenorth> I don’t have goals :)
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14:44:26 <andythenorth> SV again then :)
14:59:22 <andythenorth> NCG with milk and alcohol
14:59:34 <andythenorth> there’s an incentive to finish the edibles tanker ship o_O
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15:02:18 <peter1138> andythenorth, is that classed as rentina?
15:04:56 <andythenorth> I don’t use that resolution
15:04:59 <andythenorth> stupid on the eyes
15:07:11 <peter1138> 1680x1050 is not its native res?
15:07:26 <peter1138> 2x gui should help though?
15:08:47 <andythenorth> if I played that resolution, 2x gui would be ideal
15:13:16 <andythenorth> FIRS is way too many industries
15:13:22 <andythenorth> whose idea was that?
15:15:44 <frosch123> andythenorth: when did you play a different industry set the last time?
15:16:23 <frosch123> or is that like asking me when i played simutrans last? :p
15:22:27 <peter1138> Hmm, I used to play Simutrans, before I found OpenTTD.
15:24:06 <frosch123> i wonder... is the small map still 45° rotated compared to the main view
15:24:18 <frosch123> that was hell confusing when i played it, 10 years ago?
15:27:49 <peter1138> I just remember it used to be really slow at scrolling the screen.
15:27:55 <peter1138> Well, until tron got involved.
15:28:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: sometimes on a coop game there are default industries
15:29:00 <andythenorth> I should play PBI again
15:29:15 <frosch123> play ogfx+industries
15:29:27 <frosch123> pbi has too many BAD FEATURES
15:29:43 <andythenorth> jeux sans frontiers
15:29:54 <frosch123> stockpile limits, fixed deliver ratios, depleting mines and such
15:30:02 <andythenorth> stockpile limit bad
15:31:21 <frosch123> hmm, at least in version 101 the small map is still weirdly rotated
15:31:55 <frosch123> simutrans always confused me :)
15:33:11 <frosch123> some things look so wrong to me, but it looks as if they were intentionally made like that
15:33:13 <peter1138> There's a lot more 'basesets'
15:33:26 <frosch123> iirc there are "only" basesets
15:33:39 <frosch123> no compatibilty bollocks and such :)
15:34:27 <peter1138> They have lovely steep slopes too, so bridges and tunnels aren't a problem.
15:35:16 <peter1138> If only I could draw... :(
15:38:12 <frosch123> some versions seem to have diagonal bridges, resp elevated track
15:38:53 <frosch123> seems to be popular in japan
15:41:18 <peter1138> Ew it's all German.
15:41:30 <peter1138> simwerkz-dialogs.h CODE: use karte_ptr_t in werkzeug_t 11 months ago
15:42:17 <frosch123> less symbol conlicts with external libs :)
15:46:13 <andythenorth> big FIRS with industries on ‘normal’ instead of ‘high'
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15:54:41 <andythenorth> steam trams with wires :(
15:57:23 <peter1138> They suffer from using the _t suffix, which is recommended against.
15:59:02 <peter1138> "Simutrans is not that badly commented. Try out OpenTTD for a change ... (maybe the had improved meanwhile, but the last time I checked it was rather pages without comments at all.)"
16:00:03 <andythenorth> what are comments?
16:00:31 <peter1138> 8/32bpp <train icon> Trains 2CC
16:01:02 <frosch123> break all weird icon usages
16:02:24 <andythenorth> will I use a canal?
16:02:32 <andythenorth> or will I lower land to sea level?
16:03:31 <peter1138> Need to finish this GUI scale stuff, so I can work on the next thing... HAH
16:03:53 <peter1138> I think the vehicle type icons are not that important, even. Just the close box.
16:04:13 <peter1138> Does the newspaper really need a silver close box?
16:09:47 <peter1138> I was going to add a couple of palettes to that new palette section, but it turns out need to fuck around with editing grfcodec too :(
16:10:42 <frosch123> yes, adding newgrf stuff is tedious these days :p half a dozen of tools to update as well
16:11:06 <frosch123> anyway, what does black X look like?
16:11:14 <frosch123> i cannot remember ever pressing the grey one
16:11:53 <andythenorth> the newspaper does not need a grey one
16:12:22 <peter1138> Well, it's a black X.
16:12:37 <peter1138> With a shadow, so that the grey one is visible, because it's ... on a white background.
16:12:44 <andythenorth> cdist doesn’t set industries as destinations, right?
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16:20:01 <Alberth> causes confusion I think
16:20:15 <planetmaker> as it still works on all vehicles, right?
16:20:19 <Alberth> players would think you only replace fromthe station
16:20:41 <andythenorth> I have wished for auto-group on stations before
16:20:50 <andythenorth> wishes are not horses
16:21:30 <peter1138> Hmm, on-the-fly gui zoom changing isn't quite there
16:21:31 <Alberth> planetmaker: although arguably, you'd need a different label for station-specific replacements
16:21:39 <peter1138> (i.e. some things are broked)
16:21:40 <andythenorth> cargo icons scale….interestingly with gui zoom
16:22:04 <peter1138> they overlap if your font isn't tall enough
16:22:12 <frosch123> i think you would have a decent chance to implement the autoreplace for the vehicle-sharing-orders list
16:22:20 <andythenorth> yeah I’m using ttd font
16:22:40 <frosch123> but replacing by station is contradicting like hell :)
16:22:53 <andythenorth> also, maybe cargo icons should have an option for larger icon
16:23:24 <planetmaker> yeah. But I also found it always confusing that I couldn't access any replace dialogue from a station. So it definitely has merrit to go from there to some dialogue of that sort
16:23:26 <peter1138> You mean more detailed?
16:24:33 <andythenorth> most of the gui scales ok
16:24:34 <peter1138> andythenorth, well, make 2x or 4x sprites then!
16:24:40 <andythenorth> but cargo icons are so teeny tiny
16:24:45 <andythenorth> is the support already there?
16:25:11 <peter1138> Sure. that has been for years.
16:25:22 <andythenorth> I never explored :)
16:25:30 * andythenorth is stuck on 1x zoom
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16:25:49 <peter1138> Check out 10cc with 2x gui, although ignore the fact that pikka put double-size sprites on the 1x level :S
16:26:32 <andythenorth> oh yeah, the gianty trains
16:27:08 <peter1138> Yeah, but in depot views, you get the regular 2x sprite.
16:27:53 <peter1138> I think pikka will remove the double-size purchase menu sprites once the gui size is user-settable.
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16:29:05 <andythenorth> cdist + station refit + FIRS supply boost
16:29:13 <andythenorth> is hard to manage :)
16:31:57 <andythenorth> such bunching ships
16:32:03 <andythenorth> they really do look stupid
16:34:47 <andythenorth> ‘refit any available’ really isn’t going to work with cdist I guess
16:42:13 <andythenorth> how would cdist even build a linkgraph with that order type?
16:42:26 <andythenorth> does it try a predictive heuristic?
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16:43:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26962 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2014-10-05 16:43:44 UTC)
16:43:51 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Set up scrollbar size at the correct time (where it can be changed). Also ensure scrollbar is long enough to at least contain its buttons.
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16:50:50 <andythenorth> stupid xcode update broke my compile
16:51:32 <andythenorth> never update *anything* :P
16:54:52 <andythenorth> well that’s tedious
16:54:55 <andythenorth> it was a fun game too
16:58:30 <andythenorth> ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture x86_64
16:58:31 <andythenorth> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
17:00:50 <andythenorth> might be the freetype known issue
17:00:54 <andythenorth> just trying again
17:01:06 <SHOTbyGUN> is there any way to know if my cargo deliveries are on time?
17:02:17 <andythenorth> SHOTbyGUN: on time?
17:03:08 <SHOTbyGUN> you know the payment graph, faster delivery = better price, depending on the cargo type
17:03:17 <planetmaker> andythenorth, did you just update and compile or did you try to make clean && make ?
17:03:32 <andythenorth> update, configure, make
17:04:55 <Alberth> SHOTbyGUN: if you get more money than the running cost of the engine, it should be fine?
17:06:07 <SHOTbyGUN> Alberth, but I think it would be great to know if I am missing some oppurtunities to optimize the delivery, or maybe its way too fast and maybe I could switch to slower lane etc... So I wonder if there is any way to know?
17:06:29 <andythenorth> there is no optimum
17:06:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: same issue after clean
17:06:44 <andythenorth> I need to try some of the alternative ./configure flags
17:07:10 <Alberth> SHOTbyGUN: faster is normally better, but I wouldn't worry about it too much
17:07:25 <SHOTbyGUN> so its 99% of time faster = better ?
17:07:39 <andythenorth> so using this, squirrel fails to build
17:07:40 <andythenorth> ./configure --enable-static --without-liblzo2 --without-freetype --without-osx-sysroot CFLAGS="-isysroot /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.8.sdk" LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++"
17:07:49 <Alberth> SHOTbyGUN: probably even 100%
17:07:52 <andythenorth> that’s the recommended version on the wiki
17:08:14 <andythenorth> oh there’s no 10.8 SDK
17:08:26 <peter1138> Really? I just do "./configure"
17:08:32 <peter1138> Why does it have to be so complicated on macs? :S
17:08:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what sdk *do* you have? try one which you do?
17:09:01 <planetmaker> but then... should just detect one
17:10:41 <peter1138> Remember I used to go "hmm" all the time?
17:10:49 <andythenorth> it was catching somewhat
17:10:49 <Alberth> SHOTbyGUN: micro-optimizing profit is probably not worth the time, it's easier to find more cargo to transport
17:11:16 <planetmaker> hm @ peter1138 ;)
17:11:27 <peter1138> So what's the sprite ID for the X? 143 or somesuch?
17:12:19 <frosch123> use the sprite picker :p
17:20:09 <andythenorth> “Mac OS 10.9 has removed the method declarations related to palettes and 8-bit graphics from the CoreGraphics header files. You may either #if 0 those blocks out (in fullscreen.mm) or compile against the Mac OS 10.8 SDK.”
17:20:18 <andythenorth> I have fullscreen.mm open
17:20:28 <andythenorth> dunno what if #if 0 though
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17:25:08 <andythenorth> works with the 10.9 SDK and enough flags
17:26:22 <andythenorth> for the record: ./configure --enable-static --without-liblzo2 --without-freetype --without-osx-sysroot LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++"
17:26:31 <andythenorth> full screen etc still seems to work
17:26:43 <andythenorth> some of those flags may be redundant
17:27:08 <andythenorth> 3 min compile :P
17:27:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, are you sure you need --enable-static, if you compile only for your own machine and use?
17:27:23 <andythenorth> going to remove them one at a time
17:27:43 <andythenorth> need a faster computer
17:34:38 <andythenorth> —without-freetype is needed
17:34:44 <andythenorth> linker failure otherwise, as per wiki
17:34:52 <andythenorth> I could fuck with my freetype to try and fix it
17:34:55 <andythenorth> but I want to leave it alone
17:35:07 <andythenorth> last time I tried to ‘fix’ freetype, I broke stuff my day job needs badly
17:35:47 <andythenorth> what doese —enable-static actually do?
17:36:34 <Alberth> probably build a static binary, which basically means copy all libraries-stuff into the binary
17:37:36 <Alberth> thereby reducing the number of libraries to need to reference when starting the program
17:37:42 <peter1138> frosch123, sprite picker doesn't work for text ;(
17:39:47 <andythenorth> down to ./configure --without-liblzo2 --without-freetype --without-osx-sysroot LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++"
17:40:54 <peter1138> Heh, sprite 142 has a bug :D
17:41:08 <andythenorth> one of the sprites is a bug
17:43:18 <peter1138> Ah, probably why it's not used :p
17:45:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26963 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-10-05 17:45:47 UTC)
17:45:57 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:58 <DorpsGek> english_US - 3 changes by Supercheese
17:45:59 <DorpsGek> hebrew - 10 changes by oofnik
17:46:00 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 39 changes by cuthbert
17:46:00 <frosch123> ouch, when did you open the settings toolbar menu last?
17:47:01 <frosch123> i'll update my checkout first
17:47:17 <frosch123> yeah, looks better now :)
17:47:32 <peter1138> Well, I've not touched that menu...
17:47:32 <andythenorth> ok down to ./configure --without-freetype LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++"
17:48:08 <frosch123> hmm, now i cannot select sprite 142 anymore
17:48:18 <frosch123> maybe that had to do with the menu
17:48:31 <peter1138> That's the nice bug I was talking about.
17:48:38 <peter1138> Well, I didn't get past "nice bug"
17:49:00 <peter1138> If you view it in the sprite picker before it's been drawn as text, you get the 4x zoom version when it is drawn.
17:49:20 <peter1138> If it's drawn as text before, well the sprite picker ignores ST_FONT sprites.
17:51:32 <andythenorth> did someone fix the OS X bug, where ottd crashed whilst trying to change resolution in full screen mode
17:51:37 <andythenorth> can’t trigger it
17:51:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I wanted to say 'nice'. Then I saw the rest of that fuggly 'compiling on os x' page :P
17:52:06 <planetmaker> not blaming that on you, though :)
17:52:15 <andythenorth> oh yeah, it mentions fink
17:52:48 <andythenorth> notably, today I didn’t have to use —without-liblzo2, which I have needed for last several years
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17:59:58 <andythenorth> where did I ever find the time to draw all those FIRS pixels? :o
18:01:03 <planetmaker> the last 5 years?
18:01:48 <planetmaker> public [1:070a02b6b6db default] 2009-04-11 21:15 -0000 FooBar <foobar@jaspervries.nl>
18:01:48 <planetmaker> Initial code: nfo header, text definitions, first cargo code
18:03:49 <andythenorth> a lot else happened in that time :O
18:10:06 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26964 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2014-10-05 18:10:01 UTC)
18:10:07 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Allow editbox size to change.
18:41:51 <andythenorth> playing the game inspires sprites!
18:43:10 <peter1138> Playing the game inspired me to finish off this GUI stuff. I was originally doing it with BigGUI...
19:09:36 <peter1138> Hmm, this feels nasty :S
19:11:29 <peter1138> Added a bit to the palette field to specify if pal is actually a textcolour...
19:11:39 <peter1138> And then use SetColourRemap() if it is.
19:12:33 <peter1138> Probably better off with making a standard palette for each TextColour, and dropping SetColourRemap() completely.
19:15:46 <peter1138> hmm, how did i inject palettes in the rgb recolour stuff... hah
19:16:43 <peter1138> Hmm, crikey, that had a special blitter mode...
19:18:16 <Sylf> This looks far more yummy than the endless same all pax trams of 2cc... It must be just me.
19:19:57 <andythenorth> 2CC has different aims
19:20:10 <andythenorth> and voyager is a sprite machine :)
19:22:42 <Sylf> it's ok. 2cc fills the nice niche of too many vehicles BAD FEATURE
19:24:15 <andythenorth> I don’t know how voyager goes so fast
19:24:20 <andythenorth> it takes me hours to draw a thing
19:32:55 <peter1138> Oh, except I can't as there's more to it than just TextColour :S
19:40:24 <frosch123> what's special with them? adding recolour sprites for the text colours sounds like a sound plan to me
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19:40:54 <peter1138> There's extra flags.
19:41:15 <frosch123> so it would need two sets?
19:41:20 <peter1138> And there's a flag which means the text colour is a palette index.
19:41:29 <peter1138> So it would still need the hack...
19:42:02 <peter1138> Or (256 + 17) * 2 palettes, for a all combinations, except most will never be used.
19:42:05 <frosch123> ok, and the other way around?
19:42:17 <frosch123> creating a recolour sprite for normal sprites on the fly?
19:43:23 <frosch123> i guess that comes down to your special palette flag, right?
19:43:25 <peter1138> I can do that. In fact I did that and reverted it because I thought this way was going to be better... o_O
19:45:17 <peter1138> Hmm, weird, an audio CD that causes the CD drive to just... stop working.
19:46:20 <peter1138> These enum names are confusing...
19:46:33 <peter1138> There's SPRITE_MODIFIER_ and PALETTE_MODIFIER_, but they're both applied to the *sprite id*
19:47:26 <frosch123> well, sprite and palette were once one value, until someone split them :p
19:47:50 <frosch123> someone felt 16k sprites are not enough for everyone
19:48:06 <peter1138> Apparently they weren't!
19:48:36 <frosch123> it was someone with p, not pikka
19:50:00 <peter1138> Thing is, they're src/table/water_land.h: TILE_SEQ_LINE( 0, 15, 0, 16, 1, 0x14, 0xFE8 | (1 << PALETTE_MODIFIER_COLOUR))
19:50:09 <peter1138> err, excuse that...
19:50:16 <peter1138> 0xFE8... numeric sprite ids? crazy!
19:51:01 <peter1138> so PALETTE_MODIFIER_COLOUR actually means apply a special palette, heh.
19:51:41 <frosch123> take a look at SpriteLayoutPaletteTransform
19:51:58 <frosch123> the palette is usually the company colour or something, and the sprite says whether it actually uses company colour
19:53:32 <peter1138> Ah right, it's used in ... a header file.
19:53:46 <peter1138> So anyway, I can ignore that, as it's not important :po
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20:02:41 <peter1138> Ok it worked, but... the news window X was double the size it should be :p
20:03:36 <andythenorth> these trams are clipping catenary
20:04:18 <peter1138> (Because it's not actually a close box. Sigh.)
20:04:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: it that a tram that drives around town and sells beer to bypassers?
20:04:51 <andythenorth> strictly it’s a water tram :(
20:05:08 <frosch123> oh, it's labeled in german
20:05:22 <frosch123> clearly i need something like that in my garden for the grass
20:05:51 <Pinkbeast> Given Leipzig's very extensive tram network and giant annual goth festival, I spy a business opportunity.
20:08:38 <frosch123> I am not sure, whether V would approve a beer sprinkler
20:10:31 <peter1138> So I need to manually draw these :S
20:10:40 <peter1138> Or... Make them closeboxes but then they get a frame.
20:11:41 <peter1138> Although I can make the frame conditional, of course. Hmm.
20:16:21 <andythenorth> beer metro train
20:26:11 <andythenorth> can’t change NCG goals during game
20:31:38 <andythenorth> it’s a narsty horse
20:31:55 <andythenorth> oddly enough, IH and NARS fit together
20:32:01 <andythenorth> not on costs, but the sprites work
20:32:18 <Pikka> that shouldn't be too surprising, should it? :)
20:32:29 <andythenorth> on the whole, no
20:32:38 <andythenorth> seeing as IH is mostly stolen pikka sprites
20:32:45 <peter1138> That modifies DrawSprite to test for the flag...
20:32:52 <Pikka> expect a letter from my lawyer
20:33:22 <andythenorth> is your lawyer DanMacK?
20:34:35 <Pikka> I haven't heard back from him yet about the missing locos. I guess I'll draw the RTL and the electroswitchee.
20:34:48 <andythenorth> Dan has gone quiet
20:34:53 <andythenorth> he’s reading the messages though
20:35:09 <andythenorth> might do some well wagons for IH
20:35:16 <andythenorth> also steel torpedo cars
20:35:17 <Pikka> nice huuge buy menu too
20:35:34 <andythenorth> what’s the engine / wogan ratio?
20:35:56 <Pikka> there are about 40 wogans I think
20:36:23 <Pikka> yeah. 42, including 2 cabeesen.
20:36:42 <peter1138> frosch123, it's either ingenious or a horrible hack, depending on how you look at it :p
20:37:24 <peter1138> Pikka, selected GUI size will be soon :-)
20:37:55 <andythenorth> Pikka: it’s a bit over-dieseled for my taste, but then I’m not the audience any more :)
20:38:11 <andythenorth> I’ve played NARS to death, didn’t play anything else for years until UKRS 2 came out
20:38:19 <Pikka> I shall de-embiggen the buy menu sprites for pineapple forthwith.
20:38:21 <peter1138> quad size is amusing with 10cc :D
20:38:25 <frosch123> peter1138: if the drawclosebox has the special case for white to not draw the box, it can as well set the textcolour
20:38:33 <frosch123> no need for a special data
20:38:42 <frosch123> i don't mind the flag
20:38:45 <andythenorth> also there’s some diesel that’s ‘optimum’ for NARS for ages, can’t remember which, probably GP38-2
20:39:04 <Pikka> I wouldn't be surprised.
20:39:06 <frosch123> finally we can support 24 bit text colour
20:39:10 <Pikka> some of it's about choices and "realism" though
20:39:16 <andythenorth> and it looks nice
20:39:26 <Pikka> and I already had the sprites so why not :)
20:39:31 <andythenorth> I’d probably just bundle in a crapload more wagons tbh
20:39:32 <peter1138> frosch123, eh, not with that patch we can't.
20:39:46 <andythenorth> in for a penny, in for 12ozs, etc
20:39:51 <frosch123> SetColourRemap((TextColour)GB(pal, 0, PALETTE_WIDTH)); <- 24 bit of text colour :p
20:39:57 <Pikka> I think I've put in all, or at least most, of the ones that already exist in NARS
20:40:10 <Pikka> adding new ones means doing actual work
20:40:11 <peter1138> Well, TC_NO_SHADE is 0x200 iirc
20:41:35 <peter1138> frosch123, and yeah, the special case for white was the last thing I did, after I'd done all the data stuff... and then discovered that the news windows doesn't even using CLOSEBOX :S
20:42:26 <peter1138> But the data is there anyway, so...
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20:42:43 <andythenorth> also time for some PIPE
20:43:56 <peter1138> I suppose there's less to go wrong if I take that out.
20:46:59 <peter1138> Hmm, of course, the SetDataTip() can be completely removed.
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20:50:55 <peter1138> Hmm, still doesn't solve the other icons though.
20:51:03 <frosch123> ah, now i know why i do not remember having used the closebox in the newspaper
20:51:09 <andythenorth> canal or lower to sea level?
20:51:13 <frosch123> it had no tooltip, so i did not know what it did
20:52:13 <peter1138> Hmm... should it? heh
20:52:25 <frosch123> peter1138: it has a dead @param in DrawCloseBox, and SpriteSetup could benefit from two comments which flags are for sprite and which for palette
20:52:32 <frosch123> otherwise i like it
20:52:37 <peter1138> Oh, it defaults to the close window tool tip, that's ok.
20:53:35 <peter1138> STR_BLACK_CROSS/STR_SILVER_CROSS can be deleted
20:53:40 <andythenorth> there catenaries are *ugly*
20:53:47 <andythenorth> are there decent tram track grfs?
20:53:49 <frosch123> yay, more sed jobs :)
20:54:10 <peter1138> What's the magic invocation for that? :p
20:54:35 <Pikka> andythenorth, plenty of room in the market for tram track grfs :)
20:54:49 <andythenorth> I’m trying Foobar’s
20:54:49 <frosch123> sed -i '/STR_[A-Z]*_CROSS/ D' lang/*.txt
20:55:08 <Pikka> nothing can possibly be as hideous as the originals though
20:55:08 <andythenorth> what with all this catenary, steam trams look daft
20:55:13 <andythenorth> the originals are shocking eh?
20:56:22 <frosch123> oh, also lang/unfinished/*.txt
20:56:28 <frosch123> i always forgot them :)
20:56:56 <peter1138> I recommend a space after CROSS ;)
20:57:16 <andythenorth> 100t foundry trams
20:57:19 <andythenorth> delivering supplies
20:58:17 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder about even removing the {CROSS} stuff...
20:58:31 <peter1138> It'll break if it's used.
20:59:06 <peter1138> 545 case 0xAD: d += Utf8Encode(d, SCC_CROSS); break;
20:59:15 <peter1138> cool, supported in newgrf text...
21:00:24 <andythenorth> Pikka: just stupid, supplies need delivering often in small amounts :)
21:00:38 <frosch123> i think the minigame game script uses all those weird string codes
21:00:51 <frosch123> i forgot what it was called, by krinn
21:01:08 * andythenorth makes adjustments
21:01:12 <frosch123> anyway, all usage of it will look weird
21:01:35 <frosch123> so, in the best case: keep it, make it look weird by default, let them remove it, and then we can remove it :p
21:01:56 <peter1138> If it's really needed, I think we can DupSprite()
21:02:17 <peter1138> Though that might not work.
21:05:05 <peter1138> Heh, my RGB recolour patch...
21:05:11 <peter1138> Does horrible things to the sprite cache :)
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21:17:31 <peter1138> Hmm, feels like I should split this up, even though it's tiny :(
21:18:13 <andythenorth> game is addictive :{
21:18:18 <andythenorth> should go to bed
21:18:28 <andythenorth> Pikka: also no takers on favourite BAD FEATURES :(
21:18:38 <Pikka> I was thinking about it :P
21:18:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26965 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-05 21:18:37 UTC)
21:18:44 <peter1138> But I'm not going to.
21:18:45 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add palette bit to indicate that palette is actually a text colour remap, and draw closebox as a sprite, using said bit. Change news popup to use closebox widget for its closebox.
21:20:05 <andythenorth> cabeese are not the best BAD FEATURE
21:20:31 <andythenorth> maybe ‘buy menu is a bit too long’ is best BAD FEATURE
21:21:01 <Pikka> realism is still the worst feature
21:21:17 <andythenorth> hard to avoid though
21:21:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26966 /trunk/src/lang (62 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-05 21:21:24 UTC)
21:21:31 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove two strings made obsolete in r26965.
21:21:32 <andythenorth> nearly everything I add, I spend an hour on google first :P
21:21:56 <Pikka> "realism", ie having no other justification for a decision other than it's "realistic", is bad.
21:22:38 <Pikka> or, alternatively, discarding sensible options because they're "not realistic"
21:23:28 <andythenorth> wagon speed limits, high on my list of favourites
21:26:17 <peter1138> wagon speed limits are awesome.
21:30:11 * andythenorth is unreasonably pleased with Iron Horse
21:30:23 <andythenorth> so nice to not have to draw ~85% of it
21:30:50 <andythenorth> I just made pythons
21:32:03 <peter1138> Hmm, CDs with read errors on my DVD drive... reading better with a CD drive.
21:32:13 <peter1138> Except the CD drive needs to be reset sometimes :S
21:32:28 <andythenorth> loads of weird towns in this game
21:32:47 <peter1138> I should try adapting civilai
21:32:59 <Pikka> adapting it to do what?
21:33:13 <peter1138> Can a gamescript places roads with with no owner or town owner?
21:33:52 <peter1138> Then I'd make it more agressively link up downs. And dual-cabbageways!
21:34:04 <peter1138> dbg: [sprite] Tried to load character sprite #180 as a normal sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
21:35:03 <peter1138> They're still drawn as text on the viewport ;(
21:37:18 <peter1138> Probable cause: peter1138 interference
21:40:03 <peter1138> Well, at least the giant question mark is bigger.
21:48:36 <andythenorth> full FIRS is too volatile on supplies
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21:52:32 <Pikka> these are some amazingly half-assed turbos I'm drawing. hooray for pixel sprites. :D
21:55:26 <FLHerne> Not the diesel Networkers, I assume? That would be awesome :-)
22:00:49 <andythenorth> Pikka: looks half-assed in realisms too
22:09:38 <FLHerne> Pikka: Those look quite nice too, rather like some old French railcars I liked
22:10:15 <FLHerne> Oh, right, French company. :P
22:10:15 <Pikka> the early ones were the french ones
22:12:18 <FLHerne> I think it's X2800s that I'm thinking of. Very stylish things :-)
22:12:21 <peter1138> Hurr, double size sprite font :S
22:13:32 <peter1138> Hmm, yesh, double size fonts are not as nice as truetype fonts.
22:17:22 <FLHerne> Pikka: From the wiki they certainly seem more related, but I haven't heard of those before :P
22:28:38 <FLHerne> Hrm, is 15 years since Ladbroke Grove today. Probably best that you haven't drawn any Turbos, that way I can't accidentally recreate it in some way :-/
23:06:36 <peter1138> Track 4: rip accurate (max confidence 133) [dcc3f34c], DB [dcc3f34c]
23:06:40 <peter1138> That's... surprising.
23:07:38 <peter1138> What with the hole in the middle of the disc...
23:13:38 <Supercheese> Well, sounds like the disc was already successfully ripped, what with the hole :P
23:14:19 <Supercheese> just rippin' it again
23:23:21 * peter1138 syncs it all from the NAS to a backup drive.
23:23:37 <peter1138> Cos I don't really want to lose it again, hah.
continue to next day ⏵
