IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-04-29
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00:43:35 <grepwood> What part of the code deals in game config?
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01:04:40 <supermop> looks like it will be too cloudy to see the eclipse....
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02:17:38 <Flygon> supermop: VICTOOOOORIA. FU... NK YEAH.
02:17:50 <Flygon> Cloudy every day yeah!
02:19:08 <grepwood> Flygon let's swap places
02:19:37 <Flygon> You're on Virgin Cable, it rains even MORE there
02:19:50 <grepwood> hey I thought you like rain
02:20:25 <Flygon> I'd rather just take my slightly less frequent rain, occassional snow, and Comeng trains and run with them D:
02:23:17 <grepwood> run with trains? but they're always going to outrun you :S
02:24:47 <Flygon> grepwood: Newport signal failure
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02:46:20 <supermop> i am guessing cc mask cannot be antialiased for 32bpp?
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06:39:27 <supermop> you know what would be better than pipelines in ottd?
06:46:33 <planetmaker> supermop, masks are 32bpp, so anti-aliasing them would not do what you expect it to do
06:46:43 <planetmaker> err... masks are 8bpp
06:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: what's a flume?
06:55:23 <supermop> chute for water to flow in
06:55:58 <V453000> just use wetrails supermop :D
06:56:14 <supermop> also adapted into an amusement part ride, whereby one rides in a fiberglass log through the chute
06:56:40 <supermop> i want cargo decay to be based on how fun the ride was V453000
06:57:42 <supermop> i mean representing the mechanics of an ottd signal in a little picture of a signal
06:58:51 <supermop> how does one represent, abstractly, that a signal does x, especially without a distant aspect
06:59:15 <supermop> you have to be somewhat arbitrary about it
06:59:30 <supermop> and hope that the user just figures it out
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07:19:12 <supermop> ok time for a test grf i guess
07:19:38 <supermop> so i have a bunch of individual 256x256 32bpp pngs
07:20:11 <supermop> can i use NML to make a baseset out of those, should i composite them into a sprite sheet first?
07:20:50 <supermop> most of them only need to be 128x256
07:21:25 <planetmaker> 32bpp uses transparency, not blue
07:21:46 <planetmaker> it's 32bpp :) blue would be blue
07:22:00 <supermop> ok well blue is just a layer i can turn off in the vector file and make more pngs!
07:22:26 <planetmaker> as to your question: using many separate files, one per sprite surely works
07:22:36 <V453000> o, I can just have alpha without wtfblue with 32bpp?
07:23:08 <planetmaker> so it might be the same amount of work now to code it with all files separate as combining them in a sprite sheet
07:23:18 <planetmaker> but if you update, separate files might come in more handy, supermop
07:23:27 <planetmaker> V453000, 32bpp is just that, no frills, no surprises
07:23:32 <supermop> i want to update a lot
07:23:50 <supermop> because these graphics are ugly, just a proof of concept
07:23:56 <planetmaker> only if you want company colour or palette animation (like water), then you need to define *additionally* 8bpp masks
07:24:13 <planetmaker> supermop, just FYI: zbase uses single files
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07:24:32 <supermop> can i make a base set without cc? at least to start with?
07:25:32 <planetmaker> just like zbase has no animated water
07:25:40 <Eearslya_> So, question..I wanna get involved in OTTD coding, but the To-Do List page is..horribly out of date. Is there a more up-to-date page or where could I start?
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07:25:59 <supermop> i've only drawn land slopes, rivers, canals, rapids, so far
07:26:30 <supermop> and i want to quickly test it to see if the tiles look nice together
07:26:34 <planetmaker> supermop, do you really *draw*? Or render?
07:26:46 <supermop> drawing, in illustrator
07:26:47 <planetmaker> anyhow, as landscape getting-started, you might look at the code of pota-ghat
07:27:55 <planetmaker> Eearslya, seems we don't exactly have a more up to date list of nice-to-have things. But of course our bug tracker lists also a lot of bugs which also might be nice targets to tackle
07:27:59 <supermop> is that a base set or landscape grf
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07:28:09 <planetmaker> supermop, it's a landscape newgrf
07:28:27 <planetmaker> but for landscape, the difference between base set and newgrf is marginal
07:28:39 <supermop> but the same code would work for a base set?
07:28:57 <planetmaker> not 1:1, but a single search and replace would do
07:43:54 <planetmaker> well, maybe not single. But the effort to change is marginal, usually
07:44:46 <supermop> or just look at what order they appear in a sprite sheet?
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10:17:58 <peter1139> "Booting Ubuntu with systemd: Now in Utopic" ... on planet.debian.org... sigh :p
10:27:30 <peter1139> HMM, IF I MAKE THIS WINDOW 40 COLUMNS BY 25 LINES, I CAN PRETEND I'M BACK IN THE 80'S.
10:28:54 <peter1139> Acorn, not Nintendo.
10:29:04 <Wolf01> now you need just a green phosphor monitor
10:29:37 <peter1139> Completely wrong :-(
10:30:17 <peter1139> Hmm, of course, it was interlaced which makes conversion fun.
10:33:14 <peter1139> Ooh, gotta love the [] symbols :D
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10:39:33 <planetmaker> Taede, Re FS#5996: The usual, and posix-compliant behaviour is to stay silent, if everything is fine. If your command was wrong, you'd get an error message
10:39:43 <planetmaker> and you surely know what commands you sent
10:40:57 <peter1139> POSIX-compliant OpenTTD console!
10:43:28 <planetmaker> granted, long way there :)
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10:58:49 <peter1139> Readline and tab-completion? :p
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11:01:52 <Rubidium> I doubt the console will ever be posix compliant
11:20:05 <grepwood> What part of the code deals in game config?
11:29:39 <Rubidium> grepwood: I'd guess most if it has setting or config in the file name
11:29:54 <Rubidium> (latter for game script / AI configuration)
11:29:58 <Samu> i am trying to build a small but "expert" type of rail network that permits fast trains to overtake slow trains using only two lines that can be used in either direction, kinda like I currently do, but without the limitation of a maximum of 3 trains. If anyone wants to help, pls PM
11:33:41 <V453000> "expert" usually means not mixing train speeds :P
11:34:19 <V453000> I dont think creating pointless issues is smart :)
11:34:43 <Samu> I can do the first part fine, but 3 trains are the limit
11:35:02 <Samu> 4 trains creates the possibility of them blocking each other
11:35:34 <SylvieLorxu> Probably a silly question, but if I put an aircraft in the hangar, do I still have any costs involved with it such as the yearly running costs?
11:37:36 <grepwood> I'm asking what part of the source code deals with reading those from the file
11:39:50 <Samu> train 1 direction >> X-junction << train 2 direction
11:40:06 <Samu> train 3 direction >> X-junction == free path
11:40:51 <Samu> 3 moves first, then 1 or 2 advances and takes the other line
11:41:02 <Samu> then the last one goes straight
11:41:40 <LordAro> grepwood: "if it has setting or config in the file name"
11:43:01 <Samu> if there's a train 4 where the free path is and is heading to X-junction, creates a deadlock
11:46:17 <peter1139> Don't lay signals like that.
11:46:55 <peter1139> Remember the safe-waiting-point principle.
11:47:47 <Samu> sorry, a small mistake in my explanation
11:48:03 <Samu> 3 moves first, 2 moves next, because 1 can't go to where 3 is headed to
11:48:18 <Samu> and lastly, 1 moves last, and straight
11:50:16 <Samu> i need a mix of entry signals with path signals, but i'm noob with entry signals
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11:51:36 <Samu> path signal must reserve in advance so that it triggers the entry signal's red far away on the other side
11:51:56 <Samu> i just dont know how to build this
11:52:17 <V453000> path signals dont Really react to entry signals
11:52:50 <Samu> so i need entry-exit signals
11:53:18 <V453000> if you want any kind of logic, yes
11:54:06 <Jomann> anyone knows how to run openttd in dosbox? because my Linux version freezes every now and then. Doesn't matter what distro.
11:54:57 <V453000> why would you run openttd in dospox :d
11:56:12 <Jomann> as explained above. In linux openttd freezes whole system from time to time. it may has to do with sound, but not sure.
11:56:23 <peter1139> Does OpenTTD even compile for DOS?
11:57:10 <peter1139> There's no automatic DOS build, anyway.
11:57:10 <V453000> I believe for many people openttd works just fine under linux
11:57:21 <Jomann> or how to enable debug, maybe I can read debug log after next crash?
11:57:32 <Jomann> yeah sure, for me too. Except this annoying freeze
11:57:42 <peter1139> Well, does it freeze or crash?
11:58:00 <peter1139> Check the command line options to enable debugging.
11:58:04 <Jomann> it freezes whole system. Can't do anything, only solution is reset
12:06:09 <Samu> X-junction // train 1 direction >> X-junction << train 2 direction // X-junction == free path 2
12:06:19 <Samu> -junction // train 3 direction >> X-junction == free path 1 == X-junction == free path 3
12:07:21 <Samu> path 2 and 3 signals should turn red when train 3 crosses the 2nd X-junction
12:07:52 <LordAro> Jomann: either way, linux is a lot better supported than dos
12:08:45 <Samu> i need pre-signals somewhere
12:09:04 <peter1139> No you don't. You can't have bidirectional lines working like that.
12:09:16 <LordAro> i think only 1 or 2 of the devs (fonsinchen?) use windows for normal development
12:09:37 <Jomann> yeah I Know. But it is annoying with those crashes :(
12:10:13 <LordAro> if it's actually crashing, upload the crash reports somewhere
12:10:18 <Samu> doesn't pre-signals work bi-directionaly?
12:10:20 <peter1139> Stick to one-way lines with no X-junctions, or expand in parallel and have at least one set of one-way lines.
12:10:40 <LordAro> if it's freezing, that's a little more difficult - trying running with debugging turned on
12:10:48 <Jomann> LordAro, it freezes whole system. I just update system and then start openttd with debug on. Maybe I have debug log after reset
12:11:08 <peter1139> debug output doesn't write to a file, so make sure you can see it.
12:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> bidirectional lines only work properly with path signals
12:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> not with presignals
12:11:36 <Jomann> how, when it freezes? :) Okay maybe window mode and terminal beneeth
12:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Jomann: freezes are usually device drivers going wrong. or hardware problems
12:13:30 <peter1139> Yup, it's not going to be caused by anything OpenTTD does.
12:13:37 <Jomann> hm. Thats why I thought some problem with pulseaudio. Because amarok and qmmp freeze too after some time. luckily not whole system
12:13:41 <peter1139> Or rather, not caused by OpenTTD misbehaving.
12:14:17 <peter1139> Heh, wait, is it "completely frozen" because you're running in full-screen mode and don't know who to switch it out?
12:14:32 <peter1139> (Even so, PA shouldn't freeze)
12:15:01 <Jomann> no it was always windowed mode with free mouse
12:16:38 <Samu> I can build entry signals on both ways in 1 line, but you say it doesn't work? I don't understand
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12:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: ypu can't filter out which exit signal to react on
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12:45:48 <Samu> signal, signal, junction, signal, signal - train must be minimum 3 tiles, or is it 4? the read end must trigger the first signal
12:49:10 <V453000> seriously the fact that you dont take a screenshot to post it makes me wtf :D
12:51:10 <V453000> yeah that doesnt really make much sense
12:51:38 <peter1139> You're still trying, even after people said it can't be done? :p
12:51:59 <Samu> if it doesn't work one way, it could work some other way
12:53:13 <V453000> perhaps learn how signals work first, there is a lot of helpful people around openttdcoop servers if you need assistance
12:55:01 <Samu> hmm nop, this didn't work t.t
12:55:07 <Samu> ok, gonna search that server
13:02:40 <Godde> Btw are you supposed to be able to resize the game window on linux?
13:02:55 <Godde> I can resize the window, but the game resolution itself doesn't change
13:07:46 <peter1139> Yes, you can resize the window on Linux.
13:07:48 <Samu> there's no one in there to help
13:16:38 <V453000> Samu: perhaps constructing something and asking others if they know how to solve it is more constructive than just asking in words :D
13:17:15 <planetmaker> V453000, he'd build what he showed in the screenshot... presumably
13:17:39 <planetmaker> probably autoclean would catch that company rather soon
13:18:06 <Samu> are you there in the opencoop game?
13:18:28 <planetmaker> Not today. I only have the server logs ;)
13:18:46 <planetmaker> but maybe V453000 does have time
14:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> <Godde> I can resize the window, but the game resolution itself doesn't change <-- i've had that issue when resizing both directions at once. if i only resize one direction, it works
14:12:19 <Godde> It seems to work when compiled from source
14:12:26 <Godde> Problem is gone for now atleast
14:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it's an SDL issue
14:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i think someone might have adressed it, but i can't remember
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14:39:14 <peter1139> Gnome's lock screen is painfully stupid.
14:39:22 <peter1139> Half the time it won't actually blank all my screens...
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15:06:20 <SylvieLorxu> Eddi|zuHause: I... I... I don't even...
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15:45:17 <SylvieLorxu> Is there a way to disable lifestock and have farms only generate grain? I know it's "just a game" but it's just too gruesome to transport lifestock to a factory >_>
15:48:27 <SylvieLorxu> (For now I'm just commiting economical suicide and only adding a grain hopper to the train, but yeah)
15:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause> although it needs to be an "oldgrf" to be compatible with 1.1, you should really update to 1.4
15:55:43 <SylvieLorxu> I'll go and look into what this whole newgrf stuff is
15:56:11 <Alberth> change climate, in subtropical you have maize and wheat
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15:56:43 <Alberth> in toy land you only have a toy factory :)
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16:10:09 <planetmaker> play with FIRS. Totally different NewGRFs :P
16:10:40 <planetmaker> But update to 1.4 before that - you will find most modern NewGRFs to not work anymore on versions as old as 1.1
16:11:29 <Superuser> lol, classic SylvieLorxu
16:11:34 <Superuser> never thought I'd see you in here.
16:11:46 <SylvieLorxu> Superuser: Oh, hey, it's you
16:12:14 <SylvieLorxu> planetmaker: It's the version that's in the Trisquel repos and I'm lazy, but yeah, I probably should...
16:13:54 <Superuser> it's *very* old, it also lacks the new settings screen which makes it actually tolerable to use (among other things)
16:14:32 <Superuser> the nice thing is that ottd has a continuous integration system that builds linux packages *and* static builds that you can take anywhere and they will just work
16:14:32 <SylvieLorxu> I keep forgetting what Trisquel 6 is based on
16:14:41 <SylvieLorxu> It's the previous Ubuntu LTS
16:14:48 <planetmaker> SylvieLorxu, it's >~ 3 years old
16:15:01 <Superuser> you can also download the nightly, though 1.4.0 was literally just released
16:15:13 <planetmaker> at least the OpenTTD they ship
16:15:22 <Superuser> yeah, huge huge improvements have taken place since then, including my ~3300 string translation
16:16:21 * SylvieLorxu grabs the 32 bit Precise package
16:16:26 <SylvieLorxu> I think that's the one I need
16:17:18 <planetmaker> SylvieLorxu, grab the one from our website :)
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16:21:40 <SylvieLorxu> I wonder what's new, should look up a changelog
16:21:55 <planetmaker> lots of things :)
16:22:05 <planetmaker> LordAro, wrong spelling ;) quak
16:22:29 <LordAro> planetmaker: mostly intentional :p
16:26:44 <SylvieLorxu> Okay, a whole lot changed
16:27:31 <Superuser> SylvieLorxu: also seeing as you're just getting started and have a half-decent rig, I'd highly recommend zBase
16:28:10 <Superuser> it's a 32-bit graphics pack, you can get it from in game. You use nouveau but that should not be an issue, only the card's memory counts for this as it's litelly a bunch of sprites
16:28:22 <SylvieLorxu> Superuser: I'm not on my desktop :P
16:28:26 <Superuser> and we have the same graphics card so I can vouch for it working very well :)
16:28:39 <peter1139> I can vouch for zBase looking like shit compare to original.
16:29:00 * SylvieLorxu is on the X60s, with integrated Intel graphics, yay!
16:29:06 <Superuser> peter1139: I disagree, and I grew up on the original AND 8bit for ottd
16:29:28 <Superuser> as soon as I got a good pc (my previous one was a low end from 2002) I replaced it zbase and never looked back
16:29:40 <Superuser> but art is subjective :)
16:34:30 <SylvieLorxu> OpenTTD 1.4.0 is all laggy on the title screen :(
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16:37:06 <Superuser> try erasing your config
16:38:51 <Alberth> rm ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg perhaps
16:40:06 <planetmaker> Superuser, please be very careful what you advise. You just recommended to delete all screenshots, savegames, newgrfs, AIs and whatever he might have gathered or produced with openttd
16:41:51 <Superuser> though I do have a strange habit of doing clean installs for everything
16:42:10 <Alberth> Superuser: I'd reformat the C: drive every time if I were you
16:43:07 <Alberth> or rm -rf / in unix terms :)
16:44:05 <Alberth> so much for "force" :p
16:45:45 <SylvieLorxu> --no-preserve-root is necessary
16:48:12 <Alberth> dd < /dev/zero > /dev/sda will work too :p
16:48:30 <LordAro> dd < /dev/urandom > /dev/sda :p
16:49:07 <LordAro> or /dev/random, for that cryptographically secure deletion :p
16:49:30 <Alberth> I think you'll run out of random bits very fast :)
16:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> if you use /dev/random you're not done before the police arrives
16:54:39 <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/urandom is faster
16:55:03 <Godde> But then you can't be completely sure noone is monitoring your deletion D:
16:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you could also overwrite the drive encryption key (and its backup)
16:59:16 <Alberth> just buy a new drive, you never know what the old bits were used for :p
16:59:50 <planetmaker> iew. Used bits? I want fresh bits on my new drive!
17:00:10 <planetmaker> Not the rotten ones. I have them already myself here in some corner
17:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause> if your bitburger is rotten then you did something wrong
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17:33:12 <SylvieLorxu> It's still slow by the way, I think that it's purely because the title screen of 1.4.0 displays WAY more busses/etc. than the one in 1.1.4
17:35:35 <planetmaker> you could try to change in your ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg one setting for the memory reserved for graphics:
17:35:40 <planetmaker> sprite_cache_size_px = 512
17:35:46 <planetmaker> instead of the other value you might have
17:36:22 <planetmaker> if you have the necessary ram
17:37:06 <SylvieLorxu> I have 3GB so I assume it'd work
17:37:44 <Superuser> yeah if it's lagging on that screen, you prob don't want to run zBase...
17:37:55 <Superuser> definitely give it a go on desktop though if you like the game ^^
17:37:58 <SylvieLorxu> A bit more initial loading delay, but after that, seems way better
17:38:06 <Superuser> also the title screen games are very unrealistic
17:38:13 <Superuser> in a real game, it's not nearly as hectic
17:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> lag on the title screen is rarely because there's so much going on
17:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> because it's not actually that much compared to a real game on a large map
17:45:10 <SylvieLorxu> Eddi|zuHause: It's the most apparent difference between the 1.1.4 title screen (which had no issues) and the 1.4.0 one, and planetmaker's tip did seem to help
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26540 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-04-29 17:45:18 UTC)
17:45:27 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28 <DorpsGek> basque - 9 changes by laxkax
17:45:29 <DorpsGek> catalan - 10 changes by juanjo
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> italian - 12 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> SylvieLorxu: actually the difference that makes the difference here is the new zoom modes and 32bpp graphics
17:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> SylvieLorxu: there are a loooot of differences under the hood
17:47:56 <SylvieLorxu> Eddi|zuHause: Hmm... Well, the tip seems to work so far, but what should I look for if I have further issues?
17:48:40 <Eddi|zuHause> let's not worry about that until you have actual issues :p
17:49:45 <SylvieLorxu> Oh yeah, it also asks me to update the base graphics set because it's missing a number of sprites :(
17:50:24 <SylvieLorxu> Online content manager has it
17:50:33 <SylvieLorxu> Still weird that I have to do that after a new install :x
17:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well it reuses the files you had from your previous install
17:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the main program does not include any graphics
17:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it will download some if you don't have any, but if you have old ones, it doesn't automatically update
17:56:27 <Superuser> which is why I recommended wiping .openttd
17:57:12 <Superuser> anyway ottd is the lightest game ever
17:57:18 <Superuser> I'd give up playing games on that laptop altogether
17:57:26 <SylvieLorxu> (It's so difficult to find out the license of stuff...)
17:57:28 <Superuser> (roguelikes don't map to laptop controls so even those are out of the question)
17:57:31 <SylvieLorxu> Superuser: Nethack is lighter
17:57:48 <Superuser> but the controls don't work =p
17:58:00 <Superuser> unless you like remapping lots of keys
17:58:16 <SylvieLorxu> I just need to switch back to qwerty for Nethack but meh...
17:58:32 <SylvieLorxu> Can't be bothered
18:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> do not wipe .openttd
18:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not worth the trouble
18:19:02 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26541 /branches/1.4 (16 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-29 18:18:52 UTC)
18:19:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:19:04 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Prevent comparing to NULL when strndup could not allocate memory (r26476)
18:19:05 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Potentially undefined shifts in NewGRF code (r26475)
18:19:06 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Make sure there is no uninitialised sprite data (r26473)
18:21:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26542 /branches/1.4 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-29 18:21:49 UTC)
18:21:58 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:21:59 <DorpsGek> - Change: Remove demand calculation based on tiles (r26484)
18:22:00 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Allow single-vehicle consists to station-refit in a meaningful way (r26483)
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18:35:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26543 /branches/1.4 (5 files in 5 dirs) (2014-04-29 18:35:01 UTC)
18:35:12 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:35:13 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Buffer overruns in handling of symbolic links inside tars (r26514)
18:35:14 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Incorrect usage of strecpy (r26505, r26485)
18:35:15 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Reading console input on dedicated server relied on unspecified behaviour (r26496)
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18:41:29 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26544 /branches/1.4 (27 files in 11 dirs) (2014-04-29 18:41:19 UTC)
18:41:30 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:41:31 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Windows] Crash when the operating system performs the "paint" callback during window creation [FS#5994] (r26539, r26538)
18:41:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: OpenBSD compilation [FS#5992] (r26523)
18:41:33 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: prevent from ever reading huge (or negative) amounts of data in strgen (r26521)
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19:41:59 <frosch123> does that change your nick?
19:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> clap on clap off?
19:42:30 <SylvieLorxu> I dc'd, and XChat doesn't automatically change it back to my preferred nick
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19:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you can probably script that
19:58:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: having auto-filled a timetable, how do I force the vehicle separation?
19:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ctrl+click on "start date", then each ship will wait at its first order
20:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> at least with ships you'll have no problems with overtaking and stuff
20:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion for airplanes: an airplane will not attempt to land (stay in waiting loop) until its "travel time" has run out
20:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (in turn means "wait time" has to include taxiing)
20:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> (or plane timetables need two separate timings for travelling)
20:09:24 <Samu> turn on normal breakdowns
20:09:25 <Phreeze> does inflation include cargo payment ?
20:09:43 <Phreeze> so why do i make less and less profit ? :)
20:09:53 <Phreeze> i had a game with 50 years inflation
20:10:01 <Phreeze> an engine cost me 1.4million eur xD
20:10:13 <Samu> that should balance aircraft
20:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> inflation for income is lower than for expenses
20:11:10 <Samu> problem with inflation is who joins later in the game
20:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> after 170 years of inflation, you need about 5 times the income
20:12:28 <Phreeze> which is weird, cause stuff gets more expensive cause of industries etc
20:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (1.ß4/1.03)**170
20:12:28 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
20:12:35 <Samu> how does the loan work with inflation?
20:12:35 <Phreeze> so people must pay more for the train
20:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (1.04/1.03)**170
20:12:52 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 5.16820201339
20:13:09 <Samu> the permissable max loan on year 170?
20:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: max loan gets increased
20:13:14 <Phreeze> when inflation reaches "high" amounts, you loan is long payed off ;)
20:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (1.04)**170
20:14:19 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 786.443777924
20:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the actual inflation
20:14:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so if it was 1Mio at game start, it's 786Mio after 170 years
20:15:22 <Samu> but everything costs 5 times more, right?
20:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> especially short routes will become unprofitable
20:16:37 <Samu> is it even possible to start any route by then? 170 years after, starting as a new company?
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20:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to balance out the inflation spread by your network effect, a fresh route will never have any such effect
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20:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> with your start loan you can buy the same number of vehicles/tracks, but the running costs will eat you up
20:24:23 <andythenorth> what causes auto-refit to fail?
20:24:28 <andythenorth> it’s an issue with my grf
20:25:38 <andythenorth> auto-refit / auto-replace
20:25:40 <andythenorth> stupid andythenorth
20:26:17 <andythenorth> the auto-replace UI allows me to set up the auto-replace rule
20:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "The christian-democratic party (conservatives) are outraged about (social-democratic/labour) former chancellor Schröder attending Putin's birthday party, even though the christian-democratic head of foreign policy was also attending the party"
20:26:24 <andythenorth> but it fails silently in depot
20:26:30 <andythenorth> force-upgrade button fails also
20:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: wagon-attach callback?
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20:27:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not used
20:27:57 <andythenorth> cargo refits don’t match 100%
20:28:12 <andythenorth> wonder if it’s that
20:28:38 <planetmaker> they better match. iirc
20:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean cargos or cargo subtypes?
20:29:40 <andythenorth> the currently refitted cargo in the source vehicle is a valid refit for the target (new) vehicle
20:29:58 <andythenorth> but the values for refittable properties are not identical for both types
20:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> does it work if you separate the vehicles from the chain, and then use the upgrade button?
20:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> did you set autoreplace for the correct vehicle group?
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20:34:37 <andythenorth> it’s specific to some vehicles
20:34:41 <andythenorth> can’t figure out why
20:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you use refit callback in weird ways?
20:40:47 <andythenorth> I used refitted capacity
20:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that may be a source of trouble, but needs further debugging, which is hard when you canÄt actually interact with it
20:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> replace happens in 3 basic steps: 1) the new vehicles are purchased, 2) the refit is attempting to copy the original refit, 3) the consist is re-assembled, discarding some wagons if option is set
20:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if all these steps succeed, the cargo is transferred to the new consist and the old consist sold
20:44:40 <andythenorth> I’ve narrowed it down to a specific class of vehicles
20:44:44 <andythenorth> must be a mistake in my code
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20:52:12 <andythenorth> refrigerated food cars are a valid replacement for pax-only carriages
20:52:22 <andythenorth> according to auto-replace UI :P
20:53:59 <andythenorth> it’s like a conspiracy-nut plot :P
20:55:44 * andythenorth suspects the default cargo type on the lead vehicle
20:56:28 <andythenorth> thought I fixed that :P
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continue to next day ⏵
