IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-03-22
⏴ go to previous day
00:16:44 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
01:18:16 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd
01:22:43 <Flygon> Let's all port OpenTTD to C anyway and get it to run on the 32x
01:22:53 <Flygon> We can make 32*32 maps, right? :D
01:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf are you talking about?
01:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you want "pure C" openttd, download 0.4.5-ish
01:35:25 <skrzyp> it does not rely on language much
01:35:38 <skrzyp> but more on quality code
01:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the pre-C++ code was sprinkled with reimplementing C++ features like polymorphy and virtual methods
01:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that does really not do code quality any good :p
01:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> WP macro and stuff *shudder* :p
01:51:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
02:01:50 *** glx is now known as Guest4068
03:44:34 *** fjb is now known as Guest4075
04:19:03 *** retro|cz has joined #openttd
04:36:14 *** Hazzard_ has joined #openttd
05:56:15 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
07:15:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:50:53 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:16:42 *** lofejndif has joined #openttd
08:24:07 <andythenorth> buses and pax trams
08:24:15 <andythenorth> about which I don’t really care :P
08:26:17 <Taede> just think of em as sardine-trucks n trams
08:27:04 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 25 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Pikka> the long answer is nnnnnnooooo. or possibly copy&pastepatch.
08:35:31 <Flygon> I'm going to assume that there's no TBRS for the UK Road Set?
08:42:08 <V453000> Flygon: newbridges work with it
08:44:25 <Flygon> Never heard of newbridges
08:45:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:46:33 <andythenorth> I count 34 default road vehicles 1929-2050
08:46:38 <andythenorth> might vary by climate
08:47:44 <andythenorth> my RV set has 40 vehicles for 1870-2050
08:47:53 <andythenorth> dare I say, it might not be enough? :o
09:31:55 *** jjavaholic has joined #openttd
09:32:23 <Flygon> I'll just use US roads and have no Dutch Roadset furnature
09:39:59 <Flygon> We both like transport management!
09:50:25 <Wolf01> the only transport I like is the one which brings the food to my mouth :D
10:01:01 <Flygon> Not sure you're on the right IRC network then :P
10:07:12 <Flygon> I'd continue this discussion in the direction that's running in my mind, but I have truly no idea if we're on the same page
10:08:15 <andythenorth> on the internet, no-one knows if you’re a dog
10:08:52 <Flygon> I really AM a trademarked circa. 2003 creature typing on a keyboard!
10:10:49 <Wolf01> pfff I'm a wolf using the computer since 1997
10:13:25 <Flygon> We have much to discuss!
10:13:41 * Flygon places Wolf01 on his back and, like, buzzes about
10:13:52 <Flygon> Us aircraft need floofy blankets for them high altitudes!
10:41:58 <andythenorth> I have the appearance of trucks :P
10:42:02 <andythenorth> all stats are same
10:42:12 <Pikka> trucks trucks trucks trucks trucks
10:42:14 <andythenorth> Pikka: how many buses and tramses 1870-202?
10:42:24 <Pikka> I thought you had different trucks with the same appearance?
10:42:33 <andythenorth> I advanced from there
10:42:44 <Pikka> to the same trucks with different appearances?
10:42:58 <andythenorth> mostly opengfx-ish :P
10:43:04 <Pikka> I don't know. a generation every 20 years or so?
10:43:20 <andythenorth> default game manages with 4
10:44:52 <Pikka> I have a generation every 30 years
10:45:07 <Pikka> trucks are just there to fill in the fiddly bits between trains
10:45:12 <Pikka> and to give AIs something easy to build
10:46:06 <andythenorth> trucks are there because too much station walking is shameful
10:46:20 <andythenorth> 64 is really the upper limit for station size :P
10:47:10 <andythenorth> is big and small buses a thing? I think not
10:47:16 <andythenorth> also fast and slow buses, not a thing?
10:47:39 <andythenorth> just bus and newer bus?
10:47:43 <Pikka> big and slow "busses", small and fast "coaches"
10:48:06 <andythenorth> if you need coaches, build a train :P
10:48:17 <Pikka> smaller towns and suchlike
10:48:43 <Pikka> or for use as buses if speed is more important than capacity
10:48:50 <Pikka> helichopchops are silly
10:49:19 <andythenorth> I will leave this one coach in my list :P
10:49:23 <andythenorth> as you have failed to kill it
10:50:42 <Pikka> trams, buses, coaches, trucks, four categories :P
10:56:33 <Pikka> should do 32bpp ez graphics :)
10:56:54 <andythenorth> dunno about teeny-tiny scale
10:57:06 <andythenorth> I kind of like the stupid oversized default vehicles
10:57:23 <andythenorth> the HEQS sprites were drawn more HOVSish iirc
10:57:39 <andythenorth> (the trams, not the mining trucks)
10:57:53 <andythenorth> trams are pretty teeny tiny I guess
10:58:32 *** Aristide has joined #openttd
10:59:39 <Pikka> I haven't done any "proper" rvs yet in 32bpp
10:59:42 <Pikka> just a couple of town cars
11:00:18 <andythenorth> consistent scale is over-rated :P
11:00:24 <andythenorth> bigger RVs are cute
11:00:59 <Pikka> what about when you want to put road vehicles onna train?
11:02:40 <andythenorth> get a bigga train
11:02:43 *** Pensacola has joined #openttd
11:18:56 <Pikka> what about scaled airships
11:19:05 <Pikka> should be about 20 tiles long
11:25:55 <andythenorth> trains on airships?
11:28:45 <Pikka> "With a few performance tweaks, we should be able to get to almost 20 miles per hour."
11:28:53 <Pikka> this is a good choice for OpenTTD
11:30:37 <Pikka> there was a plane crash near here today... they managed to find this one fairly quickly... :/
11:31:21 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
11:32:53 <andythenorth> how is gamescript? o_O
11:35:23 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
11:36:11 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
11:36:13 <Pikka> it isn't, it's a monorail
11:36:32 <Pikka> I suppose I could gamescript instead...
11:41:21 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
11:53:09 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
11:53:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
11:53:41 <frosch123> 'Open the console with the tilde "`" key.'
11:54:22 <frosch123> keyboard layouts are the best :)
11:55:20 <frosch123> anyway, an ai for just-in-time vehicle order assignment is a funny new interpretation how to play ottd :)
11:55:51 <Pikka> I'm not sure how much feedback he'll get, because I don't think it's something anyone but him wants.
12:07:06 *** jjavaholic has joined #openttd
12:56:25 <peter1139> Some people think that ` is actually a tilde now... :S
12:57:03 *** Midnightmyth has joined #openttd
12:58:07 <Pikka> some people think a lot of things
13:00:34 <Xaroth|Work> and worse, some people don't think at all
13:03:13 <Pikka> I've never met anyone who thinks that ` is a tilde, but then I suppose I don't meet many people who use UK keyboards
13:07:32 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
13:07:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
13:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> everyone knows that you open the console with the ^ key
13:11:55 <Eddi|zuHause> (which is commonly known as "roof")
13:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (or german: "Dach")
13:13:59 <Pikka> I think I'll call it a tilde
13:14:52 <Pikka> I actually call ` a grave and ^ a caret, even though that's not technically correct.
13:16:47 <Alberth> as long as everybody understands what you mean :)
13:17:09 <Pikka> I'll usually settle for anyone knowing what I mean
13:17:41 <Alberth> sounds like a useful feature ;)
13:19:38 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
13:19:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
13:20:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
13:40:58 <peter1138> Also my dog will eat from a fork... o_O
14:25:29 <krinn> i wonder if one of you be kind to run a savegame provided as he have tons of newgrfs i couldn't fetch from content download. So who have the most bloat openttd there ?
14:29:07 *** Pensacola has joined #openttd
14:35:43 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
14:50:41 <lugo> hi krinn , i told you i can send them over :)
14:51:20 <frosch123> you guys have excellent timing :)
15:16:57 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd
15:21:35 *** jjavaholic has joined #openttd
15:58:32 <frosch123> spbot has a hard time today
15:58:39 <frosch123> lots of chances to insult people :)
16:10:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
16:11:42 <SpComb> frosch123: yeah... and me as well
16:20:12 *** Pensacola has joined #openttd
16:29:23 *** Starlight has joined #openttd
17:43:15 *** retro|cz has joined #openttd
18:04:22 *** Phreeze has joined #openttd
18:15:48 *** Phreeze has joined #openttd
18:22:48 <fjb> Can I somehow limit the argument of a template in C++? template<typename T> where T must inherit from class X.
18:22:50 <Alberth> o/, unfortunately, I know nothing about musa :(
18:23:27 <Alberth> fjb: never read about that, but perhaps in c++11??
18:24:05 <Alberth> otherwise, just assign it to a pointer of the base class, and it will break on instantiation :p
18:24:46 <Alberth> templates are intended to be checked on instantiation anyway, unlike eg java
18:24:58 <frosch123> fjb: there are a bunch of magical template thingies in boost
18:25:02 <frosch123> which can check such stuff
18:25:08 <fjb> It is not that important, but would have been nice to make it more typesafe.
18:25:27 <Alberth> lol, c++ and type-safe :)
18:25:54 <fjb> frosch123: Thanks, but I try to avoid boost and stl.
18:26:08 <fjb> Alberth: It is way better than C.
18:27:11 <frosch123> Alberth: good point. fjb: just put a static_cast somwhere in the constructor
18:27:19 <frosch123> static_cast fails if it cannot be resolved on compile time
18:29:29 * fjb thinks "The C++ programming language" 2. edition is a bit outdated.
18:31:07 <Alberth> a 17 year old book in computer science? that sounds likely :)
18:31:10 <frosch123> planetmaker: i believe you have to add them via "license =" in the ini
18:31:36 *** Phreeze has joined #openttd
18:31:58 <frosch123> check the example.ini
18:32:07 <planetmaker> license = docs/license.txt in my ini
18:32:16 <planetmaker> so not adding it again possibly?
18:32:22 <frosch123> then do not put it onto the command line?
18:32:43 <planetmaker> that looks better
18:36:13 <planetmaker> but I guess *that* was what I always stumbled about. Without actually noticing
18:36:24 <fjb> Alberth: It is not my oldest book in computer science still in use.
18:37:09 <Alberth> hi fjb btw, I have older books too :) the Dragon book comes to mind :)
18:37:44 <Alberth> or the sgml standard? :)
18:38:19 <Alberth> although I don't personally use it :)
18:38:45 <__ln___> what advances have there been in computer *science* within the past 17 years?
18:40:20 <Alberth> model-based engineering?
18:40:56 <fjb> Alberth: Yes, the dragon book, but "The Art of Computer Programming" volume 1 is hardly to beat.
18:43:53 <Alberth> making virtual machines like the JVM feasible
18:43:59 <Kjetil> __ln___: We got all there great new portals for sharing scientic information like twitter and snapchat
18:44:22 <frosch123> Kjetil: not sure whether that qualifies as "science" :p
18:45:06 <frosch123> but i guess cloud infrastructure would qualify
18:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26418 /trunk/src/lang (hungarian.txt simplified_chinese.txt) (2014-03-22 18:45:15 UTC)
18:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:25 <Kjetil> cloud infrastructure ? That's just a fancy name for a mainframe
18:45:26 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 7 changes by xiangyigao
18:45:27 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 9 changes by Brumi
18:45:47 <frosch123> Kjetil: i am refering to stuff like the chaos monkey
18:45:47 <fjb> frosch123: Cloud is just another name from main frame.
18:49:36 <__ln___> which of the things mentioned are computer *science*?
18:54:04 <frosch123> just-in-time-compilation is quite an advancement
18:54:18 <frosch123> if you are refering to less technological stuff like algorihtms
18:54:28 <frosch123> they have never been a computer thing
18:54:36 <frosch123> but rather math or physics things
18:58:19 <Alberth> generic parsing technology is in that area
18:59:26 <Alberth> and large scale distributed algorithms for the internet and mobile phone networks
19:06:13 <planetmaker> were there dvcs 17 years ago?
19:06:32 <Kjetil> how is JIT and advancement ?
19:07:06 <planetmaker> that's an exercise for the interested student to find out ^
19:07:31 <Alberth> it didn't exist 17 years ago? :)
19:07:33 <planetmaker> and ask all those guys in the forums who ask on how to apply a patch :)
19:07:47 <planetmaker> and what to do with it when they have applied ti
19:08:03 <frosch123> i believe the valgrind has completely changed development on the native code level (not java or something)
19:09:15 <frosch123> in fact valgrind is pretty high on the list of things why windows has no chance of survival in the long run
19:09:23 <planetmaker> virtualization might not have been a big thing 17yrs ago either. And has tremendous influence
19:09:44 <planetmaker> frosch123, why? (genuinely interested question)
19:10:23 <frosch123> it's infinitely harder to develop and debug something for windows
19:10:34 <frosch123> compared what you get for free for linux based things
19:10:45 <frosch123> the only thing you can do for windows is c# or maybe java
19:10:55 <planetmaker> that doesn't mean linux will succeed. Or it would have long ago
19:11:04 <frosch123> maybe ms will somewhen drop the native code interface, switch to a linux kernal and only do c#
19:11:27 <Alberth> planetmaker: unix exists longer than windows :)
19:11:31 <planetmaker> does valgrind work for android or iOS?
19:11:55 <frosch123> planetmaker: i think it is only a matter of time till apply drops their own unix variant for switching to a linux kernel
19:12:19 <planetmaker> Alberth, yes. And thus I don't quite get the argument "compiling / debuggin on windows is more difficult, thus windows will die"
19:12:24 <frosch123> there is just no economical advantage in developing your own kernel
19:12:26 <Alberth> frosch123: the bsd stuff is fine too
19:12:28 <frosch123> cmopared to using linux
19:13:08 <fjb> Virtualization is really old: VM/CMS
19:15:38 <Alberth> planetmaker: neither do i, but so far unix is more flexible in its operation than windows. and no matter what, as company you cannot compete against all that free developer time in open source
19:16:27 <planetmaker> most core developers and contributors are also employed by companies who take an interest in linux' success
19:16:37 <planetmaker> who make their living with that
19:16:41 <fjb> Alberth: They compete in the marketing area.
19:17:09 <frosch123> planetmaker: and, does any of those companies put the pinguin on their front page?
19:17:17 <frosch123> the kernel is not something you show to your customers
19:17:28 <frosch123> it's just something that needs to be done as cheap as possible
19:17:36 <frosch123> then you can add your own fancy stuff on top of it
19:17:41 <Alberth> it has a "intel inside" sticker :p
19:18:11 <Phreeze> 21 points in kicktipp so far, wooooooooohooooooooooo
19:18:43 *** JdGordon1 has joined #openttd
19:19:56 <planetmaker> ok, right, there's no penguin anywhere on the major distribution sites :)
19:20:14 *** planetmaker has left #openttd
19:20:19 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
19:20:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
19:20:35 <Alberth> no need to get that scared :p
19:20:48 <frosch123> i actually have no idea, only my hands know
19:21:11 <planetmaker> I even added that shortcut to OpenTTD ;)
19:21:29 <frosch123> do we have tabs in ottd?
19:21:32 <planetmaker> when you're playing it'll bring you back to main menu
19:21:44 <planetmaker> ctrl+w means 'close current window / tab'
19:21:55 <Alberth> frosch123: the station window, and the vehicle have sort-of tabs
19:21:59 <planetmaker> ctrl+q means 'close current programme'
19:22:10 <planetmaker> thus will quit Openttd altogether
19:22:50 <Kjetil> To bad valgrind is not supported on all architectures
19:23:08 <frosch123> that's what i was refering to
19:24:17 <planetmaker> arm, i386, x64, ppc
19:24:54 <Kjetil> In contrast to linux which runs on 25+ archs
19:25:48 <frosch123> i don't think debian supports all those 25 :p
19:26:15 <planetmaker> [alpha] [amd64] [arm] [arm64] [armel] [armhf] [avr32] [hppa] [hurd-i386] [i386] [ia64] [kfreebsd-amd64] [kfreebsd-i386] [m68k] [mips] [mipsel] [powerpc] [powerpcspe] [ppc64] [s390] [s390x] [sh4] [sparc] [sparc64] [x32] <-- for libpng
19:28:00 <rubidium> still it's probably the one which supports most architectures
19:32:12 <Phreeze> all you need is windows ;)
19:32:26 <Phreeze> if it's not for webservers or so ..
19:34:14 <planetmaker> Phreeze, surprisingly one doesn't really need it
19:34:39 <Phreeze> in our business, we need it
19:34:58 <planetmaker> I'm usually way too lazy to start windows for *whatever*. The only cases I really need it, at work, suffices to use a VM to run excel or word or powerpoint
19:35:15 <planetmaker> and some lab computers. But those are not my machines
19:35:16 <Phreeze> *having to use IE sucks more
19:35:37 <Phreeze> we use lotus domino doc as a document management system
19:35:37 <planetmaker> though I'm even responsible for some of those...
19:35:44 <Phreeze> this is hell on earth
19:36:01 <planetmaker> sounds pre-historic :P
19:36:08 <frosch123> lotus does still exist?
19:36:19 <rubidium> planetmaker: that list for libpng only contains 12 architectures (based on the list of Linux supported architectures on wikipedia)
19:36:28 <frosch123> i was already surprised 10 years ago, that it still existed
19:37:07 <Phreeze> lotus is the greatest <insert random rant here> on earth
19:37:21 <Phreeze> we are migrating from win xp + lotus 6.5 to win7 + lotus 8
19:37:34 <Phreeze> lotus 8 looks cool enough, is much faster, but still the shiiihaaaaddd
19:37:54 <Phreeze> lotus doc manager doesnt even suppoert win7, support was too dumb to fix bugs for office 2007
19:37:58 <planetmaker> rubidium, I counted on debian website?
19:38:10 <planetmaker> for package ligpng in wheezy
19:38:15 <Phreeze> it's crashing, it's not saving to the server etc...
19:38:55 <rubidium> planetmaker: but amd64, i386 and x32 are one architecture, so are arm, arm64, armel and armhf and the other flavours of certain architectures
19:39:13 <planetmaker> one can count that way, too, yes
19:39:16 <rubidium> alternatively, one has to say that Linux supports like 40+ architectures
19:39:48 <Alberth> amd64 really doesn't run anything 32 bit :)
19:40:09 <rubidium> having said that, most of the architectures are more or less defunct
19:40:12 <planetmaker> it usually has an emulation layer :P
19:40:19 <Alberth> at least the debian notion of amd64
19:43:10 <rubidium> Alberth: regardless of whether it works, I'm just saying that the 13/25 'ratio' is only because we're comparing apples and pears
19:44:45 <rubidium> 7/25 would be fairer with respect to supported "architectures" (= released in stable)
19:45:35 <rubidium> having said that, most of the architectures Linux supports are more or less extinct
19:52:11 <Alberth> "have become exotic" :)
19:52:47 *** Aristide has joined #openttd
20:17:37 <Phreeze> hm..is there an option to tell pageant to add or remember my added keys automatically ?
20:20:04 <valhallasw> Phreeze: pass them as parameter
20:22:20 <valhallasw> create a shortcut to "c:\path\to\pageant\pageant.exe" "c:\path\to\your\id_rsa.ppk" "someotherfile.ppk" etc.
20:43:39 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
20:51:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
20:58:35 <Phreeze> but still have to enter the PW then i think ?
20:59:59 <planetmaker> if your key has a PW, yes.
21:00:27 <frosch123> pw for keys is optional
21:01:07 <frosch123> the key provides the secuity
21:01:20 <frosch123> pw is only in case of random humans may access the physical machine
21:01:43 <Phreeze> if i add the key in pageant, i have to enter a PW !?
21:01:48 <Phreeze> no pw, no adding the key ?
21:01:51 <frosch123> (assuming they won't be able to copy the private key to a different machine)
21:05:08 <Phreeze> usually a private key can't be used without a pw
21:05:53 *** oskari892 has joined #openttd
21:13:44 <Alberth> if you store your private keys encrypted, indeed
21:48:01 *** Aristide has joined #openttd
22:06:01 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
22:26:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:45:37 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
23:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't secure your private key with a passphrase, you probably didn't get the point of a key
23:31:22 <frosch123> without passphrase you authenticate the machine, rather than the user
continue to next day ⏵
