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01:21:14 *** mark is now known as mek42
01:21:39 <mek42> hiyas, new player, having trouble getting docks to work
01:22:18 <Lizz> what's the problem? can't build them? can't send things to them?
01:23:14 <mek42> can't load stuff - does the yates cargo ship carry only goods or anything other than pax and oil?
01:24:27 <mek42> (pax = passengers, sometimes i make up my own shorthand and forget what is me and what is therest of the world)
01:24:49 <glx> pax is known here ;)
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01:26:18 <glx> yate cargo ship can carry 160 units of Mail, Coal, Livestock, Goods, Grain, Wood, Iron ore, Steel, Valuables
01:26:37 <mek42> so, i built a dock, which said it supplied grain and livestock when i built it, but now nothing. i even added a couple land terminals to make sure the farms were in range, but nothing
01:27:01 <glx> you just need to refit it
01:27:22 <mek42> oh, ok, let me try that
01:28:10 <Lizz> yeah that's important to remember
01:28:29 <Lizz> come back when you've had a train running several years but not carrying anything because you didn't refit it properly
01:31:00 <mek42> now to hit the wiki to figure out how to refit something
01:31:33 <glx> http://wiki.openttd.org/Refit <-- this page ;)
01:36:24 <mek42> got it, tyvm!
01:37:07 <mek42> for future refernce, what is the minimum size for a town to accept goods?
01:37:37 <glx> it's not the size, it's the different buildings in acceptance area
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01:39:19 <glx> commercial buildings start to appear when population is above 500
01:41:49 <mek42> ah, ok, tyvm
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02:08:50 <mek42> well, despite the large amount of smoke coming out of the engines,my plane made it to the next airport for maintenance and did not crash
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02:59:12 <mek42> does anyone have a good link for where i can read about switching? i'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around it
03:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of switching?
03:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> smoke only makes the plane slow, it does not increase crash chance.
03:07:03 <mek42> right now i know nothing about any kind of switching
03:07:47 <mek42> in fact, i might be getting confused with different articles talking about different switching
03:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but you are talking about railways, right? :p
03:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe this helps: http://uwe.s2000.at/ttdx/signal/index.php?lang=en&filter=ottd
03:13:12 <Pinkbeast> mek42: Are signals the issue?
03:13:38 <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: Urrr, that's pre-PBS...
03:14:44 <mek42> yeah, i'm trying to figure out how to share rail between multiple trains
03:15:10 <mek42> i think it will be simple once i get it, but i've got a mental block right now
03:15:15 <Pinkbeast> mek42: Moving in the same direction?
03:15:42 <Eddi|zuHause> http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Path_Signals
03:16:10 <mek42> i'd like to get a general understanding so i know when i want to use one way or two way systems
03:16:58 <Pinkbeast> And http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial/Two_Platforms http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial/Two_Tracks http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial/Basic_Network
03:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you use two-way signals if you only have a single track, or at stations that should be reached from both sides. you use one-way signals if you have at least 2 tracks
03:17:40 <Pinkbeast> mek42: 95% of the time in OTTD, trains will only move in one direction down a given piece of track. There's no efficient way for trains moving in both directions to use a long single piece of track.
03:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you find this "walkthrough" helpful: http://uwe.s2000.at/ttdx/tutorial/freight.php?lang=en
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03:26:20 <mek42> reading the freight tutorial, tyvm!
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05:04:12 <mek42> started a 7925 game to force myself to learn rail and signals eventually
05:04:22 <mek42> ^^1925
05:06:16 <mek42> found a forest near a power station and a sawmill near a coal mine, so made 6 unit long stations and my first train is 2 engines and 5 each coal and wood cars so each trip is half loaded
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05:52:44 <Pinkbeast> mek42: I hate to say it, but mixing cargo types rarely works as well as one might hope...
05:55:26 <mek42> i suspect this is generally the case, but it makes me feel good - and for my first line in this particular go, i have some hills to climb on the way to the power station - being only half full is a little less weight to carry each way
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06:10:29 <Pinkbeast> mek42: Mmm. The difficulty comes with knowing which end of the line to full-load at.
06:11:09 <Pinkbeast> Half full and half empty each way _ought_ to be very efficient. It's a bit vexing.
06:12:16 <mek42> well, i put my full car closest to the engines for the uphill route, in hopes that once the full mass was up the hill, acceleration would improve
06:13:30 <Pinkbeast> Ah. I would do it the other way around, because the locomotive is also heavy; that way, it spends less time with all the heavy parts on the gradient at once.
06:13:55 <Pinkbeast> Anyway, I'm off to bed. Have fun!
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07:54:48 <dihedral> good morning
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08:14:25 <Xaroth|Work> o/
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08:59:44 <__ln__> http://www.gamezebo.com/news/2014/01/20/king-has-trademarked-word-candy-and-youre-probably-infringing
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09:31:36 <FlutteryChicken> Hi
09:54:31 <planetmaker> moin
09:54:49 <Xaroth|Work> o/
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10:03:15 <andythenorth> for spritesheets going into a grf, is there any significant benefit to me cropping them to minimal size?
10:03:26 <andythenorth> I figure extraneous white and blue compresses ok?
10:03:38 <andythenorth> wondering about compile time as well as grf size...
10:14:59 <planetmaker> andythenorth, if you use nmlc -c (which is default), then nmlc will automatically crop and adjust offsets upon compilation
10:15:07 <planetmaker> so for you to develop you don't have to worry at all
10:15:30 <planetmaker> Unless for sprites which must not be cropped (e.g. foundations) - there the NOCROP command for the sprite comes in
10:15:32 <planetmaker> so all is easy
10:15:41 <andythenorth> for some cases where I am compositing sprites, I have to do a crop, so I wondered if there was a benefit to writing code to do it for all
10:15:45 <andythenorth> but let's assume not :)
10:16:19 <planetmaker> there's no benefit to crop in several places during compilation. Just do it once at the end, let nmlc handle it
10:16:32 <planetmaker> without proof that sounds fastest :D
10:16:49 <andythenorth> I wonder if I could borrow the nml code for the places I do need to crop :P
10:16:52 <andythenorth> probably
10:19:10 <planetmaker> nml/output_grf.py:718 and following
10:20:49 <andythenorth> ta
10:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... "BSI identified 16 million e-mail adresses that are compromised, please enter your e-mail adress into this form to find out whether you are affected"... how do i know that the BSI [german federal office for IT security] website is actually valid and not abusing my input? :p
10:46:10 <andythenorth> how do you spelling 'phishing' in German?
10:46:11 <andythenorth> :P
10:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> https://sicherheitstest.bsi.de <-- doesn't even load for me...
10:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "connection refused"
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11:51:11 <MNIM> considering there's a www infront of the subdomain? baaaaad bad site.
11:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well it was linked from a major newspaper
11:53:00 <MNIM> well that doesn't say a whole lot @.@
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13:00:50 <fjb> Moin
13:01:02 <Taede> hello
13:01:13 <Xaroth|Work> o/
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13:01:52 <dihedral> yay
13:01:57 <dihedral> yet another yorick :-P
13:02:18 <yorick> dihedral: huh?
13:02:35 <dihedral> hello there
13:03:02 <yorick> there's another one?
13:03:34 <dihedral> you
13:03:36 <dihedral> just you
13:04:31 <yorick> dihedral: so what are you talkin about then?
13:05:06 <Taede> acronymifying yay i think
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13:05:26 <yorick> aha!
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13:11:59 <fjb> dihedral: You asked for new pictures a few days ago. There are only some I took with my new cell phone: http://www.flickr.com/photos/infjb/11958556834/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/infjb/11965051775/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/infjb/11966619884/ http://flickr.com/gp/infjb/mrEc1X http://flickr.com/gp/infjb/5Um5U6
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13:13:01 <fjb> And one that I took with a regular digital camera: http://www.flickr.com/photos/infjb/10384684955/
13:15:15 <dihedral> fjb: http://www.flickr.com/photos/infjb/9558478906/ oh yeah - who is that? :-P
13:15:54 <fjb> A Canadian whale.
13:16:07 <dihedral> :-P
13:16:08 <Xaroth|Work> who clearly needed another drink
13:16:18 <fjb> More sleep.
13:17:02 <fjb> He wasn't drunk at all.
13:17:13 <Xaroth|Work> so he needed another drink :)
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13:34:27 <LordAro> dem netsplits
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13:34:43 <LordAro> oftc is having fun today
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13:38:52 <dihedral> LordAro, someone has to :-P
13:39:44 <LordAro> :D
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13:42:29 <Pikka> don't do that
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13:57:09 <Pikka> hmmm
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13:57:26 <Pikka> here they come now
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17:27:51 <mek42> woohoo! i figured out signals enough to have my first passing place work correctly :)
17:29:23 <Pinkbeast> mek42: Well done. :-)
17:29:29 <Pinkbeast> Are you using path or block signals?
17:30:02 <mek42> i used one way path signals
17:31:17 <Pinkbeast> That is best, I think (except you'll want not-one-way path signals where you want trains to pass them from the rear, eg at a terminus station.
17:31:21 <Pinkbeast> )
17:31:50 <Pinkbeast> But I try to think of one-way as the default and only use the others when I explicitly expect trains to go the other way.
17:32:52 <Pinkbeast> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=52073 I mention not just to stroke my ego, but because once the railways start it has quite a lot of "the way I do signals" in
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18:45:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26271 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_nynorsk.txt (2014-01-21 18:45:07 UTC)
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18:45:15 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:16 <DorpsGek> norwegian_nynorsk - 8 changes by 2rB
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19:10:40 <frosch123> he, rubidium made it to the frontpage of spiegel.de
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19:11:14 <frosch123> (with the -1/12 thingie)
19:14:52 <Alberth> lol :)
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19:16:55 <Alberth> o/
19:18:33 <andythenorth> o/
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19:22:28 <Rubidium> frosch123: though the proof they use for 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ... isn't as nice as the one I showed
19:22:57 <Kucki> i like the cat with 9 tails
19:22:58 <Kucki> :)
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19:25:39 <Wolf01> evenink
19:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the sort of things entry level maths students do when they ignore the requirement for absolute convergence for a sum
19:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only a small step up from proving 1=2 by evaluating 0/0
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19:43:03 <Alberth> just state the axiom true = false, and you are done :p
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19:48:56 <andythenorth> true = false
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19:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "for all members of the empty set: <...>"
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19:59:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26272 /trunk (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-01-21 19:59:13 UTC)
19:59:20 <DorpsGek> -Prepare: 1.4.0-beta3
20:01:56 <Wolf01> yay
20:02:22 <LordAro> woo
20:04:41 <frosch123> do i still have to fix the bugs i planned to fix for beta1?
20:04:41 *** Kucki_ has quit IRC
20:04:52 <mek42> but i take great pride in being a member of the empty set! ;)
20:05:07 <andythenorth> frosch123: nah, I'll do it for you
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20:05:27 <andythenorth> will you trade it for finishing some newgrfs?
20:05:57 <frosch123> were they planned for last year?
20:06:34 <andythenorth> yup
20:07:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26273 tags/1.4.0-beta3/ (2014-01-21 20:07:40 UTC)
20:07:47 <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.4.0-beta3
20:07:58 <Rubidium> frosch123: you probably should fix them ;)
20:08:41 <Rubidium> and fixing the others would be nice as too ;)
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21:02:34 <mek42> what are some good add ons for a new player to try?
21:04:51 <Alberth> depends on how you like to play the game
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21:08:18 <mek42> maybe a pre-1925 start and add some AI opponents
21:08:48 * andythenorth is biased
21:09:41 <Alberth> we all are :)
21:09:50 <andythenorth> I would use UKRS 2, eGRVTS, HEQS and AV8
21:10:02 <andythenorth> some kind of ship set :P
21:10:06 <andythenorth> there aren't any good ones
21:10:21 <andythenorth> and I would use FIRS with one of the 'basic' economies
21:11:10 <Alberth> FISH is nice, and SQUID is too, but the latter is still in beta
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21:12:12 <Alberth> or you can use the OpenGFX+Industries newgrf if you want a slightly better but mostly like the default set
21:13:08 <Alberth> but ships heavily depends on the amount of water in your map
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21:14:39 <mek42> is there a place that summarizes / describes most of the add ons in one spot?
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21:16:31 <Xaroth|Work> nope
21:16:33 <Xaroth|Work> well
21:16:35 <Xaroth|Work> the forums perhaps
21:17:27 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_List somewhat
21:17:45 <frosch123> mek42: http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2012/10/16/creating-maps/ <- that pdf also has a section about newgrf iirc
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21:19:21 <fjb> Moin
21:19:24 <Xaroth|Work> o/
21:21:27 <mek42> wowsers, there's a few of them
21:25:11 <Pikka> moin
21:25:55 <Pikka> hmm
21:25:56 <andythenorth> it's pikka chu :)
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21:27:00 <Pikka> rail tiles detecting neighbours - performance issues, array space, can't see the point, or a little of all three?
21:27:41 <andythenorth> herp, railtypes :P
21:27:56 <andythenorth> Pikka: can you make me and dan a railtype grf? we can't be bothered... :P
21:28:16 <Pikka> I already made one, didn't I? :P
21:28:25 <andythenorth> it is inadequate
21:28:26 <andythenorth> for us
21:28:31 <andythenorth> not generally :D
21:28:55 <andythenorth> needs a metro thing, and some narrow gauge thing
21:29:17 <Alberth> mek42: did we mention game scripts already? :) http://bananas.openttd.org/en/gs/
21:29:35 * Pikka wants to make a railtype grf with curved junctions, but something about 'you'd need hundreds and hundreds of sprites and no-one's crazy enough to attempt that'
21:29:52 <Alberth> you may want to read about the various game scripts in the forum http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=65
21:29:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: you need Eddi|zuHause
21:30:03 <andythenorth> he likes that kind of thing....
21:32:12 <mek42> wow, this can get overwhelming, lol
21:32:27 <andythenorth> take it slowly ;)
21:32:34 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=58168
21:34:21 <mek42> i noticed some sort of multiplayer capability? how often do folks play together?
21:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i've not got around to actually start the track set
21:34:45 <Xaroth|Work> it's usually small groups of people, but there are a few popular ones
21:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the patch to check adjacent trackbits should be about 10LOC
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21:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't think the performance impact would be that hard either. checking adjacent trackbits is already done for catenary
21:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there was some open design question about returning individual trackbit sprites, or returning a full junction sprite
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21:40:35 <Pikka> definitely full junction :)
21:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the latter could yield better graphics, but potentially requires more complicated action2 chains, which may indeed pose performance impact
21:43:14 <Pikka> and of course there's no way of caching the tile and only updating it when it or one of its neighbours changes?
21:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you extend the map array
21:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> currently only the "fence" is cached
21:46:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (this cache is only updated in the tileloop)
21:48:03 <mek42> do FISH, new ships and old ships all play well together?
21:49:08 <Alberth> everybody has his/her own favourite combination, just try a few games experimenting
21:49:21 <Pikka> http://i.imgur.com/dbCW44i.png is where I'm at, btw. perhaps I'll leave worrying about the curves until later. :)
21:49:34 <Pikka> plenty else to be getting on with...
21:50:06 <Alberth> don't add too many at once
21:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you have a weird width mismatch at the diagonal rails
21:56:40 <andythenorth> mek42: FISH plays nice with other ship sets, but you shouldn't need more than one
21:56:48 <andythenorth> unless it's to get the sailing ships...
21:57:00 <andythenorth> FISH is a bit abandoned though :)
21:57:12 <mek42> ok, i'm thinking FISH and old ships so i can do an early start
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22:01:26 <Pikka> no I don't, eddi. :)
22:10:28 <Pikka> but the track can be made to meet up only by curving the ends on both tiles, hence wanting to explore custom tiles and detecting neighbours.
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22:17:36 <mek42> andythenorth - eGRVTS or eGRVTS2?
22:17:44 <andythenorth> 2
22:19:12 <mek42> ty
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22:45:19 <Wolf01> 'night
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22:47:18 <frosch123> night
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23:31:22 <andythenorth> bye
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23:44:22 *** planetmaker changes topic to "1.4-beta3, 1.3.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
23:44:38 *** planetmaker changes topic to "1.4.0-beta3, 1.3.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
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