IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-09-25
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06:53:43 <Supercheese> an entire section for train vocabulary
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08:08:05 <dihedral> regarding r25788 (gs giving money and charging fees) is there a reason this should only be available to game script or may i hop on board and write a patch to incorporate that feature as console cmd or via admin port?
08:08:51 <dihedral> or should i just pipe it through a game script with json :-)
08:19:11 <planetmaker> dihedral, I do believe that game actions like changing money and playing god is a GS feature, not a game administration thing
08:19:19 <planetmaker> Though this point indeed can be argued
08:21:19 <planetmaker> I kinda fear a bit double-implementing access to all these things and then two scripts migh compete with eachother for the same ressource but different aim :-)
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08:46:59 <dihedral> though i still believe it is an awesome possibility for an admin as an alternative to kick :-P
08:47:19 <dihedral> well then - pipe through gs it is :)
08:47:32 <planetmaker> interesting thought. Piping that trough GS... might be more difficult
08:47:41 <planetmaker> through json possible, though
08:47:46 <V453000> I dont think admins should be allowed to move around with money tbh :)
08:47:58 <dihedral> planetmaker, consider the possibility of 'banking' money from one game to another :-P
08:48:12 <planetmaker> V453000, I actually do believe that *you* would like it. E.g. to "fix" a coop game at startup or so
08:48:21 <planetmaker> no need to download, fix locally and re-upload
08:48:46 <V453000> for such case, it would be cute, on the other side, it would result in "Player"s spamming "yo admin giev me money"
08:48:48 <dihedral> i do quite love the possibilities
08:49:02 <dihedral> V453000, there are easy ways around that
08:49:08 <planetmaker> V453000, I would grant that request. By giving -100000€
08:49:49 <dihedral> i would also introduce the stupidity fee for questions like 'where is the wiki' :-D
08:49:49 <planetmaker> that quickly would make the round, I think :D
08:50:15 <dihedral> have 3 server access the same 'bank' and be able to transfer cache from one game to another
08:50:31 <planetmaker> not sure that'd be fair tbh
08:50:41 <dihedral> betting - now 'external' shares management
08:51:10 <planetmaker> it'll penalize the occasional players while giving even more advantage to the 24/7 players
08:51:48 <planetmaker> I'd rather install an income tax GS... like first 100k/yr free. Then increasingly steep tax on the excess revenue ;-)
08:51:55 <planetmaker> "communist tycoon" :-P
08:52:10 <dihedral> a new type of loan could also be introduced - paypale me 5EUR and you will get 1000000 in the game
08:53:53 <planetmaker> 'normal server' vs. 'premium server' ;-)
08:54:35 <dihedral> but the tax thing could be fun
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08:54:45 <Xaroth|Work> yo planetmaker giev me money
08:54:59 <planetmaker> @money remove xaroth -100000
08:55:03 <Xaroth|Work> (I was surprised noone did it yet :| )
08:55:45 <dihedral> planetmaker, remove -100000 ??
08:55:59 <planetmaker> drat, someone caught the twist ;-)
08:56:44 <dihedral> who can write the game script?
08:56:53 <dihedral> i will write the plugin for grapes
08:57:04 <dihedral> byt the way planetmaker - i am working on the command logging plugin for you
08:57:29 <planetmaker> I really should revise our game servers and setup both grapes and soap :-)
08:58:38 <planetmaker> V453000, replacement for autopilot
08:58:44 <planetmaker> basically. Including logging though
08:59:38 <dihedral> and independent from openttd
08:59:45 <dihedral> i.e. can run on a different host
09:00:15 <planetmaker> not sure I'd actually do that. But... it's at least and foremost quite more robust and versatile than ap+. At least in principle
09:00:37 <dihedral> not as easy to create plugins though ;-)
09:01:17 <dihedral> if you want to write java code, then it's fine
09:01:31 <dihedral> creating a file with the name of the command is not supported (yet)
09:03:27 <planetmaker> hm :-) Important things like !fish or !coop
09:03:36 <dihedral> where is peter1138 - he used to have something for people saying !commands in here
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09:23:33 <AndreasB> Cant be monitored by server
09:23:44 <AndreasB> all PM can be logged by server
09:35:00 * Xaroth|Work hands AndreasB a tinfoil hat
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10:33:33 <dihedral> AndreasB, and you are concerned because?
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10:55:03 <AndreasB> dihedral: Just because
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11:00:33 <Xaroth|Work> Japa: looks like a lunchbox on wheels :D
11:05:20 <dihedral> Xaroth, wheels on meals :-P
11:15:08 <MNIM> now I demand a food-themed train set
11:19:14 <juzza1> one with trains shaped like foods?
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11:32:25 <planetmaker> care to make a patch for FS#5765 ?
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11:33:36 <planetmaker> or... what would you consider the better version... Mightymover or MightyMover? :)
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12:07:07 <dihedral> i want that gamescript
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12:34:26 <AndreasB> Well, I do see the road on each side
12:34:35 <AndreasB> But theres no road in the middle??
13:05:35 <planetmaker> as said: bug in NewGRF
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13:13:09 * Belugas yawns and try to find energy to wave hello
13:13:54 <Belugas> and it's only starting :(
13:13:54 * andythenorth has taken a day off work and is making ponies
13:14:20 * Belugas would like a day off ans still making pennies
13:14:31 <Belugas> or maybe loonies, for those who know ;)
13:15:13 <AssThunder> the fuck andythenorth
13:15:22 *** AssThunder is now known as V453000
13:15:54 <andythenorth> my boss is ok, but sometimes I'd like a break from him
13:16:49 <V453000> how is your boss connected to making ponies
13:21:31 <andythenorth> cargo support with different graphics
13:22:37 <V453000> lazy to draw shittons of sprites? :P
13:23:50 <V453000> if you want to know what hell is, try to draw every known cargo in firs/ecs/pbi with 4 loading stages and 4+ randomize variations per each
13:23:54 <andythenorth> Dan is doing it already :)
13:24:00 <andythenorth> not that much :P
13:24:07 <andythenorth> I am figuring out code
13:24:18 <andythenorth> I am trying to find laziest way to code it
13:24:21 <V453000> more cargo sprites = better :)
13:25:49 <alluke> funny how db set carries wood products as coal
13:26:42 <alluke> coal is kind of wood product too
13:26:44 <V453000> idk what coffee is with nuts atm
13:26:57 <V453000> andythenorth: what is the cargo class of coffee?
13:27:37 <V453000> hm I guess nuts has it in crates then
13:29:02 <andythenorth> coffee travels in sacks or crates
13:29:27 <andythenorth> alluke: it's because wood products are chips used for power station fuel
13:29:31 <V453000> (I originally wanted to put it in hoppers)
13:29:57 <planetmaker> V453000, I think you should transport it in cups :-)
13:30:13 <V453000> hmf :) didnt draw maglev yet, anything can happen
13:30:57 <V453000> or inside rubberducks
13:31:10 <planetmaker> empty = yellow. full = brown :-P
13:31:24 <V453000> no I would just cut them in half during loading
13:33:23 <alluke> nuts needs coffee cup wagons indeed
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13:33:32 <alluke> just loco hauling giant steaming coffee cups
13:41:11 <V453000> if it will be in sufficient quality I might add it
13:42:02 <alluke> i have higher priority stuff to do
13:42:58 <V453000> see then it wouldnt be nuts enough :)
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13:51:17 <AndreasB> [15:05:41] <@planetmaker> as said: bug in NewGRF
13:51:23 <AndreasB> I looked on the picture attached to the bug
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13:54:12 <planetmaker> try without NewGRF. Try with that NewGRF. Check what sprites the NewGRF provides. And you'll have no other chance as to come to my conclusion
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14:05:17 <andythenorth> so I render python objects into an nml representation
14:05:29 <andythenorth> then nmlc rebuilds python objects from the nml
14:05:33 <andythenorth> then turns them into nfo
14:05:45 <andythenorth> if I was clever, I could cut out the middle step :P
14:05:51 * andythenorth is not very clever
14:13:43 * andythenorth wrote some tests
14:13:46 <andythenorth> they caught some errors
14:14:43 <planetmaker> makes your generator more understandable, andythenorth ;-)
14:15:23 <andythenorth> have a new electric loco
14:15:32 <andythenorth> 80mph, 1,800hp, 1919
14:15:39 <andythenorth> will be expensive
14:15:49 <DanMacK> was thinking more 60MPH, but 80 works
14:16:23 <andythenorth> I looked at the NER express thing on the page with the EB1
14:16:30 <andythenorth> I borrowed the stats etc
14:16:34 <andythenorth> seems to fit about right
14:16:48 <andythenorth> if you want superfast, or you're cheap, it's better to stick with steam
14:17:01 <andythenorth> but the electric is good for general purpose gameplay role
14:17:13 <DanMacK> Yeah, Bump up the TE, because it's all motor
14:22:51 <AndreasB> Is it possible to get 100% station rating with steam trains?
14:23:11 <andythenorth> that is not the answer you were looking for :D
14:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> V453000, I would grant that request. By giving -100000€ <-- or the BOFH way: "you now have 200000€ and no expenses" .p
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15:23:36 <DanMacK> Lakie, how's it going?
15:24:07 <Lakie> Not too badly, thinking about some tram bugs.
15:24:47 <DanMacK> unemployed right now, so enjoying the free time
15:25:18 <alluke> now nothing can get between you and ottd
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15:33:39 <Lakie> Is it not on the Finnish FTP?
15:34:33 <Lakie> Might be worth checking there, I know mot of the earlier GRF sprites should be there?
15:34:35 <alluke> i dont even know if i have the access to that
15:36:47 <Lakie> I'm guessing maybe the Fo under Coaches?
15:37:38 <alluke> and most of those sprites are outdated
15:37:40 <Lakie> Hmm, is that from the teaser?
15:37:53 <oskari89> That is from Early Years Beta
15:38:20 <DanMacK> send it to me, I can do that :)
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15:50:45 <alluke> hey theres green vr1 too
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15:51:12 <alluke> oskari89, why aint it in the current set?
15:52:02 <DanMacK> cuz i havent redrawn uit
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17:33:55 <andythenorth> keeping the same information in two data structures
17:33:59 <andythenorth> never goes well :P
17:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i have exactly one data structure containing all the data, and generate the rest
17:40:36 <andythenorth> I foolishly put some data into the nml templates, because it's easy to read there
17:40:49 <andythenorth> but then I have to maintain the nml and the source data :P
17:41:00 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
17:41:14 <andythenorth> I am not used to someone else tab completing on 'and'
17:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25797 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt icelandic.txt) (2013-09-25 17:45:15 UTC)
17:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25 <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 4 changes by ewaldhorn
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> icelandic - 3 changes by Stimrol
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17:54:13 <andythenorth> dict.items() ftw
17:54:49 <Xaroth|Work> what are you trying to hack this time :P
17:55:30 <andythenorth> "every home should have one"
18:04:42 <Supercheese> planetmaker: Sorry, was sleeping. I don't really have a preference one way or the other, but they should be made consistent
18:05:02 <frosch123> i like camelcase :)
18:14:07 <andythenorth> where did DanMacK go :P
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18:14:59 <andythenorth> are we +1 or -1 to wagon running costs?
18:15:41 <V453000> cost doesnt matter really
18:16:00 <V453000> but it does make sense
18:16:11 <V453000> after all, wagons are what make money, not engines
18:16:24 <frosch123> free engines, expensive wagons :p
18:16:30 <AndreasB> trains are costly enough
18:16:46 <V453000> I actually did intend to do something like that originally frosch123 :)
18:16:56 <frosch123> how is something costly if it makes 20x income compared to running cost?
18:17:19 <frosch123> even tracks are kind of cheaper than roads
18:17:42 <frosch123> because you can remove them with income
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19:10:32 <Pinkbeast> I like wagon running costs
19:10:57 <andythenorth> mine are currently $12 / year :P
19:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause> my wagons have running costs, but to this day there was 0 effort to balance them
19:15:30 <matkum> how to actually balance running costs?
19:15:42 <matkum> replacing them by a new model?
19:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the "express" trains are supposed to have higher running costs
19:17:20 <planetmaker> frosch123, so you prefer MightyMover over Mightymover?
19:17:51 <Alberth> looks better as vehicle type name, imho
19:20:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25798 /trunk/src/lang (51 files in 2 dirs) (2013-09-25 19:20:15 UTC)
19:20:21 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5765]: Consistent spelling of MightyMover vehicles
19:22:09 <frosch123> sed training for pm :)
19:22:55 <planetmaker> I had quite a bit more sed-training with the not yet finished attempt to get japanese trainset use NML lang files :D
19:23:29 <frosch123> you are doing japanese stuff now? :o
19:23:34 <planetmaker> cat nfo/strings_de.pnfo \
19:23:34 <planetmaker> | sed 's/[\t ]*\"//' \
19:23:34 <planetmaker> | sed ':a;N;$!ba;/\\n\"/s/\\n\" *\n//g' \
19:23:34 <planetmaker> | sed 's/\" 00 *$//g' \
19:23:34 <planetmaker> | sed ':a;N;$!ba;/\/\/\([0-9A-F]\{2\}\)/s/\/\/\([0-9A-F]\{2\}\)[\t ]*\n/STR_OPENTTD_D1\1 :/g' \
19:23:34 <planetmaker> | sed 's/[\t ]*00[\t ]*$//' \
19:23:36 <planetmaker> | sed ':a;N;$!ba;/\/\/\([0-9A-F]\{2\}\)/s/\/\/\([0-9A-F]\{2\}\):.*\n/STR_D1\1 :/g' \
19:23:42 <frosch123> what percetange of newgrf are you involved? :p
19:23:53 <planetmaker> I don't want to know :-)
19:24:06 <frosch123> likely as much as zuu with scripts :)
19:25:16 <planetmaker> I just thought that it'll be cool to give that NewGRF translations...
19:25:23 <frosch123> btw. you can also use -f option to read a script from file :p
19:25:25 <planetmaker> more complicated for that than it initially looked
19:25:48 <planetmaker> but it really need be separated here... with -f the result was - for some reason - different
19:26:06 <planetmaker> probably it's a matter of how it's sequenced
19:26:42 <frosch123> yeah, you seem to do stuff with \n :)
19:27:02 <planetmaker> I need to concatenate lines. And split lines
19:27:08 <planetmaker> Depending on how they're shaped :D
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19:34:04 <Alberth> wouldn't python be easier?
19:34:23 <Alberth> at least it wouldn't look so much like random punctation :)
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19:36:48 <frosch123> you mean it would look boring? :p
19:37:03 <planetmaker> Alberth, yes it might be.
19:37:20 <planetmaker> but ^ would not look that dreadful :-P
19:37:44 <Alberth> I once write a converter of assembly code in sed, which was about a page A4 like that :)
19:38:03 <Alberth> but I had much less words :p
19:38:08 <planetmaker> and it was like usual. It started with one line. And then another etc...
19:38:24 <planetmaker> and I ended up with that. It works fine. And then I discovered there's strings in two other files
19:38:49 <planetmaker> which need yet another way to be converted :D
19:39:16 <Alberth> and so it explodes in size :)
19:39:29 <planetmaker> so the initial idea of having a quick way to add translations collapsed, yes
19:39:37 <frosch123> i think sed is one of the closest things to raw turing machines
19:42:19 <planetmaker> raw sed is as understandable as raw nfo, though ;-)
19:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you should try commented sed than :p
19:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: sed is not turing-complete, however...
19:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you need an iterated sed for that :)
19:46:40 <frosch123> sed has labels, jumps, even conditional jumps
19:46:52 <frosch123> step up your sed knowledge :)
19:47:36 <frosch123> if-loops are perfectly fine in sed
19:50:43 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, just look at what I pasted. It has labels, and conditional jumps ;-)
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20:32:24 <LordAro> Poll: gcc/clang/special-compiler version?
20:39:55 <Rubidium> how the hell can I give a version for a random compiler?
20:42:31 <LordAro> maybe you should raise the issue upstream?
20:43:03 <LordAro> oh, and by typing "gcc -v" and similar
20:44:50 <LordAro> oh, and btw, clang 3.3 runs that program fine :)
20:45:26 <Rubidium> Debian clang version 3.3-9 (branches/release_33) (based on LLVM 3.3)
20:46:43 <LordAro> "clang version 3.3 (tags/RELEASE_33/final)"
20:47:25 <Rubidium> therefore... I report the bug to Debian. If I do it to upstream, they'll just complain I didn't use the vanilla clang
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20:49:19 <Rubidium> and I doubt tcc or pcc can compile openttd ;)
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23:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... seems like half the internet just disappeared...
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