IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-09-21
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00:32:04 <Haube> hi, i am looking for an option to start with minimal industry (which is there) and a way to prevent the random found of new industry or to have it limited to a minimal rate, to get an long slow evolving game, did i miss this option anywhere?
00:38:01 <Haube> basically in the generator dialog,. start with industry seed minimal , and from then player only
00:49:11 <Supercheese> the Manual Industries grf should let you do that with the default industries
00:49:17 <Supercheese> perhaps OGFX+ Industries as well
00:51:25 <Haube> thx i will check it out
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10:06:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25787 trunk/src/misc_cmd.cpp (2013-09-21 10:06:23 UTC)
10:06:31 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Doxygen comment was wrong
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10:24:24 <AndreasB> any of you scandinavian?
10:28:11 * LordAro points at Zuu (i think)
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13:07:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25788 /trunk/src (9 files in 4 dirs) (2013-09-21 13:07:42 UTC)
13:07:49 <DorpsGek> -Feature: [Script] Game Scripts can now charge fees and give money to companies
13:21:11 <Zuu> GS: "A new industry will open. You can now bid on getting it located near your HQ."
13:24:40 <Alberth> Like I want that smelly building anywhere near my HQ :D
13:25:08 <matkum> is there any benefit of the hq building
13:25:17 <matkum> so, does it matter, where to establish it
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13:32:59 <frosch123> hmm, what's the replacement for the "target" in "<a>" links in html?
13:33:10 <frosch123> specifically to open in new tab/window
13:33:21 <frosch123> apparently "target" is deprecated or so
13:34:37 <frosch123> matkum: it supplies pax and mail, so it makes sense to build it at the very beginning of the game in a town you transport stuff from/to to increase production
13:34:45 <frosch123> it's irrelevant for bigger towns though
13:35:21 <frosch123> so, it's more of an early game bonus or so
13:35:35 <Pinkbeast> matkum: Put it somewhere you will often look to stroke your ego. That's what I do, but then I'm a monstrous egotist.
13:36:43 <matkum> I started from year 1950 and now 1965, having 2 mil euros, so not that bad
13:38:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know "<a href="">"
13:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> when i last coded html, tabs didn't exist yet :)
13:39:24 <Zuu> frosch123: target has been "not recommended" to use for long, but I don't know of a replacement to achive the same (ignoring javascript solutions)
13:40:48 <Zuu> The general recommendation is to let users decide themself if they want a new tab or not. Not to impose it in the html code. However, in some situations depending on the user group it may still be valid to set target=_new.
13:43:54 <Alberth> wiki also uses target <a target="helpwindow" href="/Help:Editing">Editing help</a> (opens in new window)
13:46:03 <frosch123> oh, it was un-depricated :p
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14:13:43 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <andythenorth> have fun with law :)
14:16:50 <frosch123> oh my, my html skills..,
14:16:59 <frosch123> i should just let andy fix it
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15:09:05 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25789 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2013-09-21 15:09:00 UTC)
15:09:06 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25783): Calling GSTown.FoundTown in world gen caused world gen to terminate and start the game
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16:17:28 <Zuu> GS API question: Should GSStoryPage.NewElement be able to construct all element types or should specialized NewXYZElement methods be added for types where the uint32 parameter is composed by several bit-shifted variables?
16:17:57 <Zuu> With several methods the bit-shifting magic is not exposed to GSes.
16:18:45 <Zuu> A Squirrel side wrapper could create a combined method where a table is used to pass the parameters and dynamically choose the API to call based on the element type.
16:27:38 <frosch123> i don't think bit stuffing should be part of the api
16:27:44 <frosch123> how is it done for orders?
16:28:02 <frosch123> bit stuffing is bad because it cannot be extended
16:28:11 <Zuu> I can't think of any API that require bit stuffing
16:28:20 <frosch123> we cannot change the format, add parameters, move them somewhere else
16:29:09 <frosch123> [18:28] <Zuu> I can't think of any API that require bit stuffing <- hu? that's what you were asking, wasn't it?
16:30:53 <Zuu> I was wondering if bit stuffing should be used when extending an existing API or if a separate method should be added with new parameters (and internaly combine several parameters to p2)
16:31:33 <frosch123> i think the api should provide new functions with more parameters
16:31:56 <frosch123> that way you are free to change the p2 format any time when needed
16:32:58 <Zuu> Good, I'm somewhat towards that idea too. Also that means that the doxygen of one combined method doesn't has to explode. (it is already quite large for just the page element types in trunk)
16:40:04 <alluke> why was switc climate removed :(
16:42:10 <alluke> good thing i found ottd 1.0.5
16:46:27 <frosch123> aww, why was switch climate added even in the first place :/
16:46:46 <frosch123> good thing we god rid of that nonsense
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17:14:31 <DanMacK> Switch climate creates too many issues
17:45:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25790 trunk/src/lang/ukrainian.txt (2013-09-21 17:45:18 UTC)
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27 <DorpsGek> ukrainian - 11 changes by odisseus
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18:56:05 <Djohaal> derpy question, is the current neighbours are important release incompatible with founding new towns? The script crashes for me
18:58:12 <Zuu> So in that case it is a bug
18:59:01 <Djohaal> I'm using a patched version tho
19:00:28 <Supercheese> Well, that may be causing problems, test with clean trunk?
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19:02:10 <Zuu> I'm able to reproduce it in clean trunk.
19:02:42 <Zuu> If you read the log you'll see that the script detect the new town and the crash occur due to a bug in the code that handles the new town.
19:04:47 <Djohaal> crash at addtown function
19:06:49 <Zuu> I've found and fixed it locally already. :-)
19:08:32 <Zuu> Its a mistake in a pice of code that only run when a town is funded in the game. The code adds the new town to the register of all towns in a sector of the map. This is used to speed up the script on large maps, but apparently this bug sneaked in. :-(
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19:32:32 <Zuu> Djohaal: You can find an update on bananas now with the bug fixed.
19:35:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25791 trunk/src/script/api/script_company.cpp (2013-09-21 19:35:49 UTC)
19:35:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25788): Silence comiler warning in ScriptCompany::ChangeBankBalance
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21:16:38 <andythenorth> train flipping is unexpectedly hard
21:17:16 <andythenorth> offsets are borked
21:26:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, offsets are not related to the center of the bounding box but the "hidden" corner of the bounding box
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21:27:25 <Eddi|zuHause> which makes a +-6/+-2 offset variation when flipping direction
21:27:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that
21:30:19 <andythenorth> I thought it was bad spritesheet layouts, but not
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21:30:31 <andythenorth> is there some var I have to check for 'flipped'?
21:30:48 <andythenorth> and then fix it myself with a switch to different offsets?
21:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is a var
21:31:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "veh_is_flipped" or something
21:31:23 <andythenorth> vehicle_is_reversed ?
21:31:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there are two different ones
21:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause> one is for vehicles reversing at end of line, and one for flipping in depot
21:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably want the second kind
21:32:47 <andythenorth> nfo spec is probably better
21:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> reversing at end of line is for people who want to switch cab car and engine to drive backwards
21:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> which you should probably not do :p
21:33:50 <andythenorth> think that's modflags FE bit 8
21:34:21 <andythenorth> reversed sprite is var C8
21:35:25 <andythenorth> nml vehicle_is_reversed is modflags FE bit 8
21:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i find only the part where you allow/disallow flipping, not where you read it
21:36:46 <andythenorth> out of battery :P
21:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> seems an odd thing that nml doesn't provide this variable
21:56:33 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, misc_flags: bitmask(TRAIN_FLAG_FLIP)
21:58:30 <planetmaker> hm, as variable though? Hm...
21:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's the property to SET allow flipping, not the variable to read it
22:00:16 <planetmaker> which variable is it?
22:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say ask andy... :)
22:03:00 <planetmaker> wonderful... "FD for trains forward, FE or FF when reversed
22:03:13 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 11111101
22:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> does that only apply to ctrl+click flipping or also for the second part of a dualhead?
22:03:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so mask only the 2nd bit?
22:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, i have no use for this variable, as pretty much all my vehicles are articulated
22:08:07 <planetmaker> I can't answer your question without looking at hte source... which I'm too tired to dig through at this time of the day :-)
22:08:19 <planetmaker> but nevertheless, it could be added... probably should
22:08:33 <planetmaker> hm... though it might have had some reason not to... not sure :-)
22:11:40 <planetmaker> hm... no 0xC8 in newgrf.cpp
22:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to substract 0x80
22:18:49 <planetmaker> I don't think so...
22:20:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, you sure C8 is correct?
22:21:22 <planetmaker> there's no other. other than "train reversed". Which is what NML provides
22:22:01 <planetmaker> which is FE, bit 8
22:23:33 <Eddi|zuHause> oh right, i miscalculated. it's 28, not 38
22:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> src/newgrf_engine.cpp: case 0x28: return 0; // cur_image is a potential desyncer due to Action1 in static NewGRFs.
22:27:34 <frosch123> return HasBit(Train::From(v)->flags, VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION) ? 0xFE : 0xFD; <- that's the relevant part
22:27:48 <frosch123> other results only occur if you use original sprites
22:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm clearly unable to calculate in my head
22:28:34 <frosch123> that FD is the same stupid FD you have to assign to property 12
22:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah i guessed as much
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