IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-08-15
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08:05:06 <Arkabzol> Dance music sounds a lot better with the noise of trains and buses starting.
08:05:47 <Arkabzol> Playing OpenTTD while listening to music.
08:06:08 <V453000> I only tried death metal ... sounded pretty good too
08:15:19 <peter1138> Dance music sounds better muted
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08:25:08 <Supercheese> Go for best of both worlds, dance remixes of TTD music
08:25:36 <Supercheese> although strangely, my favorite TTD remix seems to have disappeared from the Internet
08:26:00 <V453000> I have never seen any of those somehow
08:27:34 <Supercheese> I downloaded it years ago, can't find it again anywhere
08:28:45 <Supercheese> (I still have it, I'm just surprised it seems to have gone away)
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09:07:24 * dihedral greets the planetmaker
09:09:34 * peter1138 mumbles at people hosting stuff on dyndns addresses
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09:16:02 <peter1138> it's open source, but the source code is not available, as the dyndns site is down
09:19:02 <planetmaker> :-) you're free to obtain it. you just have to cut off your head to reach it
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09:36:24 <lugo> when translating string STR_CARGO_UNIT_COFFEE from FIRS, i have a problem
09:36:46 <lugo> Singular would be Sack Kaffee, plural would be Säcke Kaffee
09:37:45 <lugo> so with {P 0 "" ?} i can only add letters, can i replace the whole word too?
09:38:36 <__ln__> by giving the whole word?
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09:42:03 <lugo> at what point exactly? betweeen the ""?
09:44:56 <__ln__> i don't remember/know the syntax really...
09:48:26 <__ln__> isn't there any similar cases in OpenTTD's german translations that you could look at?
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09:52:39 <lugo> mmh i'd really need to know the concept or in-game use of STR_STATION_???? to find suitable translations...
09:53:37 <lugo> we just need to say his name 3 times
09:55:04 <Terkhen> waiting a random amount of time also works
09:55:44 <maddy_> andythenorth left just after you asked the question, possibly to escape the necessity of answering it
09:56:08 <Terkhen> lugo: STR_STATION_ strings are the names used for stations that are placed nearby the related industry
09:58:13 <lugo> Terkhen: with appendixes like i.e. north, valley, ..?
09:58:24 <Terkhen> no, the string is the appendix
09:58:47 <Terkhen> {TOWNNAME} Fish Market, {TOWNNAME} Tanner Road and so on
09:58:53 * Terkhen wonders what Tanner Road means
09:59:05 <Terkhen> I should probably update my translation soon too
09:59:06 <lugo> that i'm also wondering :)
10:15:19 <planetmaker> lugo, sure, yo ucan replace in plurals anything
10:15:31 <planetmaker> S{P 0 "ack" "äcke"}
10:16:02 <planetmaker> even {P 0 "nix geht" "vieles geht"}
10:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> lugo: for the station names, the only condition is that no two names may be the same
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10:26:33 <lugo> planetmaker, Eddi|zuHause thanks
10:27:18 <lugo> i'm thinking about "Leuna" for Portland, but i have no ideas for Tanner Road (mining) or James Watt Street (heavy industry)
10:28:48 <lugo> well, just "Chemiepark" instead of Leuna i guess...
10:29:44 <lugo> there are quite some typos in the german translation, well there were...
10:32:36 <planetmaker> Leuna... for Portland... yes. no. I thought of industry in the vicinity of... ports. But yes, might work
10:32:47 <planetmaker> Chemiepark, why not
10:33:04 <planetmaker> Just think of nice road names. Siemensstrasse instead of James Watt Street for instance
10:33:24 <planetmaker> Kohlmarkt instead of tanner road. Or similar
10:33:50 <lugo> Kohlmarkt is a little misleading isn't it :P
10:34:03 <lugo> but i like siemensstraße
10:34:31 <planetmaker> the names have no relation directly to the industry... And a 'tanner' is a "Gerber". So... whatever :-)
10:34:49 <planetmaker> those are road names I just pulled out of my hat (the english ones, I chose them :-P )
10:36:31 <peter1138> gah, bullshit microsoft
10:36:53 <peter1138> releasing an update with the same details as a previously installed update...
10:37:13 <planetmaker> never heard that name, lugo ;-)
10:37:37 <lugo> seems quite common though
10:38:19 <lugo> well there's one in bochum so i thoguth it's fitting :)
10:38:53 <planetmaker> Flötz already implies excavating industry
10:39:14 <planetmaker> namely... digging for coal
10:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't frosch123 have a list of german names?
10:48:23 <frosch123> haven't seen the english end-product though :)
10:53:55 <lugo> inspirational: i picked Zeche for mining, auf dem Acker for farm, Kruppstraße for heavy industry
10:54:28 <lugo> planetmaker: in your reply on the forums, why {num} instead of {signed_word}?
10:54:35 <frosch123> i think pm suggested "drei Eichen" instead of "auf dem Acker"
10:59:45 <lugo> those are the results so far
11:00:14 <frosch123> i wondered which areas use "Pferdemarkt", and which "Roßmarkt" :)
11:01:26 <frosch123> "...park" sounds weird
11:01:32 <frosch123> have you seen such streets?
11:02:26 <frosch123> hmm, apparently it is common in other areas :)
11:02:27 <lugo> well more an area than a single street
11:03:21 <lugo> fits to the happy place of TTD-land i think :)
11:03:31 <frosch123> "Altes Rathaus" already confused me in the english version
11:04:12 <frosch123> it implies there is a new one, and the old one is no longer being used
11:04:35 <frosch123> "Sandbank" could be shortened to "Sand"
11:05:34 <lugo> mmh i think townname Sandbank sounds better than only Sand, but both are bit strange to hear
11:06:24 <frosch123> well, i haven't seen a station on water :p
11:09:32 <planetmaker> yes, "Sand" instead of "Sandbank". definitely
11:10:33 <planetmaker> I never hear anywhere anything like "Sandbank". But places like "{PLACENAME} Sand" are very common at the coast
11:10:44 <lugo> should be changed in english too then..
11:10:51 <planetmaker> English is not German
11:11:12 <planetmaker> It's about what fits the language. And I asked andy there :-)
11:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard "Sand" as a location
11:11:27 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, you're not living anywhere near the coast
11:12:04 <Xaroth|Work> in spain/catalonia it's "(place) de mar" .. like lloret de mar, malgrat de mar, etc.
11:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth|Work: it's meant for places _in_ the sea (fishing grounds, etc.)
11:13:27 <lugo> ok i'm going with "Sand" then.. any more objections?
11:13:56 <Xaroth|Work> Eddi|zuHause: which idiot builds stuff IN the seas?!? :P
11:13:58 <planetmaker> and thanks for digging up the original list, frosch123 :-)
11:14:09 <planetmaker> Xaroth, it's natural for dredging sites ;-)
11:14:48 <Xaroth|Work> we use boats for that
11:15:08 <lugo> planetmaker: sorry to bug you, but you didn't answer the num/signed word thing
11:15:33 <planetmaker> use what was there. {NUM} might be openttd lang file, not newgrf semantics
11:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm feeling very short-answery today, it seems...
11:21:18 <planetmaker> look at the links to the different "Sande"
11:21:44 <planetmaker> It's not an Island. It's not a Hallig. It's a Sand :D
11:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, but then it would be "{TOWNNAME}sand", not "{TOWNNAME} Sand"
11:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> which may or may not work with some town names
11:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> because Braunschweig is known for being near the sea :p
11:25:11 <planetmaker> yeah, we totally have an Okercabana here. With beach. And beer :D
11:25:28 <V453000> depends how much beer you consume
11:25:45 <__ln__> Frankfurt an der Odersand
11:26:04 <MNIM> Pffft. beer is everywhere.
11:26:18 <frosch123> __ln__: Frankfurt an der Odersandsack
11:26:48 <planetmaker> I believe as station name you don't need to concatenate it. Assuming it's placed on or near a "Sand" near the town from the station name
11:26:55 <V453000> and vice versa MNIM, with beer you are everywhere
11:27:13 <frosch123> MNIM: would you rather drown in coffee or in beer?
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11:28:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i can't help it, but "Sand" feels Totally Wrong(tm)
11:29:46 <frosch123> "Sand" is only for trve people who also use "moin"
11:30:36 <planetmaker> exactly, frosch123 :-)
11:30:52 <MNIM> frosch123: beer, preferably
11:30:54 <planetmaker> in other places they simply can't occur
11:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i used "moin" before it was cool!! :p
11:31:28 <MNIM> because there's always whiskey in the jar. :P
11:32:37 <planetmaker> Alternatively: Siel, Deich, ...
11:32:52 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I used it since I could talk ;-)
11:33:02 <planetmaker> thus surely longer than you :-P
11:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but you are more northern than me :p
11:33:55 <V453000> how the hell do you say unicorn in german anyway
11:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i live in an area where people think that when you say "moin" it means "morgen"
11:35:05 <frosch123> what's it in czech?
11:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that any different? :p
11:36:14 <frosch123> sounds like rhinoceros
11:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause> "jed" meaning "one"
11:36:43 <V453000> thats exactly the same frosch, rhino is only called "nosorožec" where noso is ... nose :D
11:37:09 <V453000> no, more like headcorn
11:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well that's "Nashorn" in german :)
11:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> no, an "ass" is an "esel" :p
11:38:55 <V453000> iz osel in czech ... you mean donkeyass
11:39:13 <frosch123> yeah, unicorn-donkey-chimera
11:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: is that when you put a carrot in front of the donkey, so it moves? :p
11:40:41 <frosch123> no, you also have to colour it rainbow
11:40:44 <V453000> :D with the carrot being a part of the creature?
11:41:03 <frosch123> yeah, and eyes fixed in >< position
11:42:44 <Eddi|zuHause> wait a moment, how did we get from "station name for a dredging site" to "donkey with a carrot"?
11:43:15 <V453000> all paths lead to unicorns
11:43:55 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there are certain words which are used regulary in every language
11:43:59 <frosch123> "unicorn" is one of them
11:45:32 <__ln__> the source material for your statistics may be a bit biased if it suggests "unicorn" is used regularly in any language
11:46:09 <frosch123> __ln__: just take your sentence as example
11:46:14 <frosch123> it uses "unicorn" as often as "if"
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11:55:32 <NGC3982> I have been playing so much RCT2 lately. It's really good, but playing older tycoon games in their originality feels kind of strange when I'm so used to OpenTTD.
11:55:51 <frosch123> screen resolution, right?
11:56:26 <Xaroth|Work> and lack of smart features :P
11:56:59 <V453000> low vehicle limits :((
11:57:11 <NGC3982> The resoluttion isn't really a problem. The features, though..
11:57:31 <V453000> + only point to point :( no junctions :(
11:58:01 <Pinkbeast> I haven't been on many rollercoasters with junctions in active use during normal operations.
11:58:12 <NGC3982> Just being able to clear the screen with the delete key is extremely neat.
11:59:58 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i started up TTDPatch to test something, i got immediately annoyed by the smallest usability features missing
12:00:16 <frosch123> build on steep slopes?
12:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever got that far
12:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but lets start at autorail
12:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really remember anymore what exactly it was
12:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but it was really small things
12:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the kind that you always say "you don't appreciate the small things until they are gone"
12:04:02 <dihedral> i would still like to see 'cash penalties' introduced :-) if someone misbehaves, make him 'pay' - money goes into local charities
12:04:30 <frosch123> it's called "bribing" in ottd
12:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> make an admin script!
12:05:41 <dihedral> frosch123, i mean enforced by the admin, as a console command e.g.
12:06:21 <frosch123> oh, you mean "change company", "bribe town 30 times"?
12:06:33 <dihedral> bribing has an effect
12:06:46 <dihedral> i want to charge.... some type of .. taxes :-P
12:06:47 <NGC3982> LordAro: That looks very.. promising.
12:06:51 <frosch123> not if you bribe enough often
12:06:55 <dihedral> 50% misbehaviour tax
12:07:03 <peter1138> can game scripts do things like dole out cash? heh
12:07:18 <dihedral> but it should work both ways
12:08:12 <dihedral> then i could create an admin script that handles some type of ... swiss bank accounts
12:08:17 <dihedral> transfer funds across games :-D
12:08:40 <V453000> make money on one server, go to another, sabotage whole server
12:08:57 <dihedral> sabbotage once, join never again
12:09:26 <V453000> well it takes a while until your banlist extends enough to cover all those idiots
12:09:36 <dihedral> but join, create company, gain cache - save outside of game, start new game, get cash back
12:09:55 <dihedral> V453000, same as openttdcoop - irc password
12:10:03 <dihedral> or even worse, login to webpage first :-P
12:10:26 <dihedral> just that the webserver is not patched into openttd like at the luukland servers :-P
12:10:51 <V453000> plus use nightlies and custom newGRFs
12:11:10 <V453000> or patched openttd, even better
12:12:36 <maddy_> taxes could work otherwise, but they are such a pain in real life, and playing openttd lets me forget some such unpleasant things
12:14:10 <V453000> taxes would be great, you could add disasters related to taxes
12:14:25 <V453000> like minority A burning cars on the street up, passenger production rate -50%
12:14:55 <peter1138> is luukland still going?
12:15:13 <dihedral> peter1138, nope - not for a year now
12:15:23 <Xaroth> V453000: nothing TrueBrain's CAS project can't fix :)
12:15:27 <V453000> luukland iz ded? how unfortunate
12:16:28 <Xaroth> somebody should ask them to release their modification source
12:16:35 <Xaroth> seeing they distribute binaries
12:16:57 <V453000> you know the eventual result of that
12:17:17 <Xaroth|Work> them responding FOAD?
12:18:11 <Xaroth|Work> (I should really not have 2 irssi windows open on the same channel, I'm confusing myself..)
12:18:56 <peter1138> anyone know what's extra in their builds?
12:19:03 <dihedral> i am in their irc channel, lets see what happens
12:19:18 <peter1138> they do include a diff, which is not source, but good enough for me
12:19:57 <peter1138> "Patched OpenTTD client with some handy features for playing on Novapolis Servers. _Sources included_."
12:20:32 <peter1138> something to do with cargo at least
12:20:55 <peter1138> special chat commands
12:22:12 <dihedral> IConsoleCmdExec("connect 37.157.196.78:3981#255");
12:23:07 <peter1138> yeah saves having to use the server list, eh?
12:23:42 <peter1138> they don't care about non-windows users :D
12:25:11 <dihedral> peter1138, line 1821
12:25:17 <V453000> windows is the future!
12:26:02 <peter1138> dihedral, makes sense if you look at the previous context
12:26:31 <dihedral> remove the entire block makes sense
12:29:47 <peter1138> +STR_CONFIG_SETTING_CTRL_GOTOSHORTCUT_ALTSHIFTCLICK :alt+shift+left-click: {STRING2}
12:29:50 <peter1138> +STR_CONFIG_SETTING_CTRL_GOTOSHORTCUT_CTRLALTLCLICK :ctrl+alt+left-click: {STRING2}
12:29:54 <dihedral> const byte _openttd_revision_modified = 0;
12:30:11 <peter1138> needed so normal clients can connect yes
12:30:35 <dihedral> or is it the server too
12:30:44 <peter1138> probably just the client
12:30:56 <dihedral> so you can connect to other servers
12:30:59 <peter1138> but okay, so it can connect to the server which is also marked as non modified
12:32:43 <dihedral> line 3234 is cute also
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12:39:13 <dihedral> they claim it works on linux, but one has to compile oneself
12:41:39 <V453000> they are doing serious competitive progaming out there, I doubt any progamer uses luxin :P
12:43:21 <frosch123> programmers use linux, progamers use luxin
12:44:35 <Wolf01> as you are talking about modifier keys, I was thinking again about the interface for playing on touch screen: would be hard to have an official biggui.grf and change some ui buttons to act as dropdown? I mean, you need to share orders (ctrl+goto on a vehicle) as I don't have ctrl (ok, I can use gestures to enable it but that's not the point) I wanted to change the goto button like the top
12:44:35 <Wolf01> menu, where you keep pressed and select an action, the first one is the default one
12:46:50 <Wolf01> and this for every action which use the ctrl key
12:48:05 <Wolf01> except for (remove)autorail and signals, where we already have an usable ui with many buttons which can be combined
12:49:56 <planetmaker> Wolf01, integrating enlarged GUI sprites is not unreasonable and feasible in some ways... Just not yet done
12:50:13 <planetmaker> michi has a somewhat nearly finished patch for that iirc
12:50:31 <planetmaker> kinda introducing an UI zoom variable
12:52:06 <Wolf01> the problem is not only the big gui, but all the ctrl(olled) actions
12:53:11 <planetmaker> it's two different problems, I think
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12:53:31 <planetmaker> the biggui is ... solvable. the idea exists. some code. but not yet done
12:53:33 <frosch123> the ultimate solution for ctrl are completely customizable hotkeys
12:53:42 <planetmaker> the different keys... ^
12:53:45 <frosch123> which could then also involve alt and win keys
12:54:04 <frosch123> and automatic hotkey dispaly in tooltips
12:54:47 <frosch123> you know: like sc2 can display hotkeys on the action button, ottd could display them on the toolbar icons
12:55:02 <Wolf01> eh, but if you don't have keys™?
12:55:23 <planetmaker> dihedral, do you archive suggestions? Especially the non impossible ones?
12:55:36 <frosch123> could be the default for ape pads
12:56:10 <frosch123> hmm, actually, even apes use tools
12:56:41 <Wolf01> also without the ability to hover on a button is quite difficult to get a tooltip
12:58:41 <V453000> just draw the letter over the icon in the corner
12:59:03 <V453000> faster, and searching for tooltips is slow/tedious/not as effective
13:00:09 <Wolf01> it could be difficult to read
13:00:24 <frosch123> make every button take 1/4 of the screen
13:00:33 <V453000> not a problem at all if done properly
13:01:22 <dihedral> planetmaker, were you refering to ttf or my charging penalty idea
13:02:08 <Wolf01> it works well with plain, single colored buttons with a great contrast from background, and the image of the button needs to leave an area where you can draw the letter/shortcut
13:02:14 <frosch123> but it gets harder with modifier keys :p
13:04:54 <planetmaker> dihedral, I were referring to your spelling in the tt-f posting, yes ;-)
13:05:07 <planetmaker> achieve != archive
13:05:21 <dihedral> i always do that one
13:06:09 <frosch123> i did it, until it annoyed me that albert always corrected me in the patch reviews :)
13:06:53 <frosch123> though i think smatz failed in teaching me safe/save
13:07:53 <dihedral> where is SmatZ anyway?
13:07:56 <DorpsGek> dihedral: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 35 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky...
13:08:26 <dihedral> well - i guess that's still in reason
13:11:55 <planetmaker> archaif vs. adschief ;-) Only one has an "r" :-P
13:13:23 <dihedral> novapolis is at lease very kind to openttd:
13:13:27 <dihedral> "Because of this, if you encounter any bug, report it to Novapolis team as it may be connected to patches included.
13:13:27 <dihedral> Unless you encouter the same bug on unpatched OpenTTD client do not report it to OpenTTD development team."
13:13:57 <planetmaker> I wonder how many bugs go amiss due to that, though :-)
13:14:37 <frosch123> dihedral: likely we flamed them long enough
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13:15:21 <dihedral> frosch123, don't be a spoil sport
13:21:55 <maddy_> how would I go about using a hashtable-style datatype with key-value combinations, where key is a combination of TileIndex and Track?
13:22:35 <maddy_> I see there's a hashtable datatype already included, but not sure if that is suitable for it
13:22:54 <dihedral> what is your intention maddy_ , what do you want to store?
13:23:06 <V453000> going about beer is certainly an option
13:23:49 <maddy_> my signal programs, which will be a custom class, so I need a collection of them, and ability to search them with the said key
13:24:23 <frosch123> how many items do you expect?
13:24:37 <dihedral> it sounds like a lot of data
13:24:56 <dihedral> \o/ openttd will no longer run in opendos, due to memory limitations :-D
13:25:01 <maddy_> frosch123: hard to say, probably 0 to 100 would be an average case
13:25:14 <frosch123> so, use a std::map :p
13:25:19 <maddy_> dihedral: it's not a lot of data at all
13:25:36 <frosch123> does the data need storing in the savegame?
13:25:57 <maddy_> frosch123: ok, and something like uint64 as the key? combining TileIndex and Track into one integer
13:26:10 <frosch123> no, custom struct or class with operator<
13:27:00 <frosch123> cargomonitors also use a std::map
13:28:36 <maddy_> yeah, I will use std::map, thanks
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13:38:09 <dihedral> TB sit still will ya?
13:58:41 <LordAro> i still think there's something wrong with the mediawiki setup
13:59:35 <frosch123> wasn't it maximum number of connections last time?
13:59:45 <frosch123> until tb banned another search engine
13:59:55 <LordAro> hmm, and "dbus-daemon" seems to be bugging out, it's using 100% of a core
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14:17:40 <maddy_> is there a better datatype for generic lists where order does not matter than std::vector?
14:20:50 <maddy_> found it: forward_list
14:21:52 <frosch123> list and vector are very different
14:22:52 <maddy_> I just need something that I can iterate over, and add/remove elements
14:24:47 <frosch123> ottd has a smallvector class, which has an effective erase operation (which does not preserve order)
14:25:42 <maddy_> frosch123: cool, I will use that instead
14:26:08 <frosch123> mind that ottd's container work slightly different to the stl ones
14:26:31 <frosch123> they generally do not call constructors or destructors, but you can construct stuff in place without the need to copy later
14:26:47 <frosch123> they are mainly used to store pod data though
14:27:21 <maddy_> that's all I need actually
14:27:53 <maddy_> just storing small structs
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14:37:40 <V453000> are somewhere written recolour tables for company colours?
14:38:04 <V453000> and may I ask where does the power of rainbow dwell? :)
14:39:59 <V453000> why are there all the zeros when the first 4 characters seem to matter :D
14:40:06 <frosch123> you can add custom recolouring to ttdviewer via that file btw :p
14:40:24 <frosch123> because they are text colours
14:40:43 <frosch123> fonts only use first 3 colours, and technically that's the recolourmap which ottd uses
14:40:47 <frosch123> cc are way more down
14:40:55 <V453000> <sequence name="Company Color"> ...
14:41:10 <V453000> wanted to see mainly this :) <recolor name="red" sprite="779" indices="C6 C7 C8 C9 CA CB CC CD" separateable="all"> B3 B4 B5 B6 B7 A4 A5 A6
14:41:57 <V453000> thanks frog :) you shall be rewarded with madness
14:43:06 <V453000> expect the worst, COMBINED with rainbow power
14:43:48 <frosch123> oh rainbow power. the unicorns always get quite horny on that
14:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> decompile germanrv to get recolour madness :p
14:44:37 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: there are no animals, madness 0/10
14:44:50 <Eddi|zuHause> like 50% of that file are recolour sprites
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14:45:40 <Pitbull> I don't suppose there's any chance I could jsut pop in here like this and get some help with using rcon? :D
14:45:46 <Pitbull> I searched teh forums already but the solutions didn't help
14:46:10 <planetmaker> the chances might rise dramatically when you ask the questions instead of meta-questions
14:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose you'd get an answer to a metaquestion
14:46:22 <V453000> type "rcon ban everybody"
14:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you forgot the quotes :p
14:46:48 <V453000> shows I dont use rcon often :P
14:46:54 <Pitbull> I'm tryign to remotely load a saved game on my server. I can pause/unpause using rcon password "pause" and rcon password "unpause"
14:47:09 <Pitbull> but rcon password "ls", rcon password "load newGame.sav" etc doesn;t work
14:47:22 <Pitbull> yes complaints will decrease dramatically with the ban everyone command :D
14:47:30 <Pitbull> the problem.....goes away
14:47:58 <V453000> anyway, check that you have all newGRFs from the savegame on the server
14:48:14 <V453000> and that the save wasnt created with uncompatible/newer revision of openttd than the server haz
14:48:22 <V453000> step 3, ban everybody
14:48:33 <Pitbull> I believe I do, I created the savegame locally on teh server box earlier to load. Do I need to have the save on the client side to load it?
14:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that's when computers become sentient and get to the conclusion "wipe out all humanity" is the optimal solution
14:49:24 <V453000> it shouldnt be related to your client at all Pitbull
14:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen that scenario many times in movies. it must be true! :p
14:49:26 <Pitbull> "well we've achieved sentience, what do we do on our quest to better humanity? Well system V453000 says to check something call newGRFs, check server versions and then.....BAN EVERYONE."
14:49:51 <Pitbull> is there a reason rcon password "ls" won't return anythign in the client console?
14:49:59 <Pitbull> I wanted to confirm I had the filenames right, I'm 95% I do
14:50:12 <V453000> I suppose that should do something but idk I dont use that command
14:50:17 <planetmaker> what does rcon pw "pwd" tell?
14:50:48 <Pitbull> C:\Users\<Username>\Documents\OpenTTD\save\
14:50:59 <Pitbull> That is where the save file is
14:51:03 <Pitbull> so that looks correct
14:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> am i allowed to reply a forum post with "no." twice on the same day?
14:51:27 <planetmaker> depends on who sees it, Eddi|zuHause ;-9
14:51:28 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: you are allowed to do anything on the forums
14:51:45 <Pitbull> This is a dedicated server running in windows, if that's relevant
14:52:09 <frosch123> well, quite possible noone ever tested that :p
14:52:20 <planetmaker> :-) ls is linux. dir is windows :D
14:52:29 <planetmaker> people using dedicated servers probably all use linux :D
14:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> well the first one was "can we have more than 512 houses", and now there's "can we have underground stations?"
14:52:51 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: in that case apply "fuck no"
14:53:01 <Pitbull> is there a windows "more" command? my save list scrolsl out of the console window lol
14:53:06 <Pitbull> guess I cna go back to goggling at this point
14:53:12 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the correct answers are in both cases "yes", though
14:53:15 <Pitbull> and confirm the filenames before I get back to begging :D
14:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and the worst thing of all: he gives "stuttgart main station" as an example :p
14:53:49 <frosch123> Pitbull: you can scroll the console window
14:53:57 <planetmaker> Pitbull, first try to load one which you see?
14:54:03 <frosch123> mousewheel or shift up/down pgup/pgdn
14:54:20 <V453000> beer can be used for scrolling too
14:54:25 <V453000> in random directions usually
14:55:26 <planetmaker> hm... scrolling. beer. I should scroll some dust into the bin. So that I can scroll beers with friends tomorrow
14:55:48 <Pitbull> ok! after doign the dir, I had teh file name correct, aaaaaand it loaded fine now!
14:56:18 <Pitbull> Appreciate it guys, sorry to do drive by tech support begging lol.
14:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause> oh... and then he also posts the same in two different forums...
15:00:02 <planetmaker> indeed. locked one of them
15:00:23 <frosch123> before or after eddi's "no"? :p
15:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i've chosen not to reply at all
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15:29:03 <dihedral> Eddi, good for you :-P
15:34:28 <Rubidium> regarding that novapolis patch thing... I really have to think of the City Wok of South Park
15:34:42 * Rubidium ponders complaining that Thai doesn't work right ;)
15:37:56 <Rubidium> lovaly... the client has buffer overflows
15:40:26 <Rubidium> oh... sqrt + double... desync!
15:41:55 * Rubidium wonders how long it takes to desync with a normal client there
16:30:16 <V453000> where do I put the recolour {} thing?
16:30:23 <V453000> aka how do I activate it on the actual spriteset?
16:31:49 <V453000> oh right so in the graphics block
16:32:44 <V453000> eventually as random_switch{} 1:blue; etc, right?
16:34:28 <V453000> sounds suspiciously easy :)
16:35:17 <frosch123> random_switch in the colour_mapping is fine as long as you do not use rerandomisation with triggers
16:36:15 <V453000> no I wont do that, I only need another switch to be dependent on it (due to wagons to recolour dependently) ... I guess that should not be a problem
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16:57:47 <maddy_> how would I check if any signal on a given TileIndex and Track has a specified SignalState?
16:58:41 <frosch123> take a look at rail_map.h
16:58:48 <frosch123> or signal_map.h if there is such a thing
16:59:32 <maddy_> yeah that's the file I am looking at
16:59:50 <frosch123> isn't there some function retunring a SignalState?
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17:00:24 <maddy_> frosch123: SignalState GetSingleSignalState(TileIndex t, byte signalbit)
17:00:48 <frosch123> well, there are multiple signals on a tile
17:01:26 <V453000> hm I guess I cant do it that way eh :D
17:01:45 <frosch123> ah, right, vehicles are more complicated :p
17:02:24 <frosch123> later on you can put param[10] (as used in that example) into the callback
17:02:44 <maddy_> frosch123: there is also another function: uint GetSignalStates(TileIndex tile)
17:05:53 <maddy_> what are the possible signalbits?
17:06:18 <frosch123> maybe take a look at GetTileTrackStatus_Rail (or whatever it is called) for how they are used
17:13:57 <V453000> WTF it is compiling :D lets see to what effect
17:20:05 <maddy_> frosch123: can't figure it out, my brain is frozen
17:21:16 <frosch123> did you look at GetTileTrackStatus_Track?
17:21:44 <frosch123> it uses stuff like GetPresentSignals, GetSignalStates, IsOnewaySignal, SignalOnTrack
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17:45:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25723 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-08-15 17:45:21 UTC)
17:45:31 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 71 changes by UseYourIllusion, abdu354
17:45:33 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 2 changes by Stabilitronas
17:45:34 <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 68 changes by Phreeze
18:01:39 <maddy_> bit logic is making my head dizzy
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18:15:23 <krinn> return (state == SIGNAL_STATE_RED) ? (SignalOntTrack(track) & ~GetSignalStates(t) != 0) : (SignalOnTrack(track) & GetSignalStates(t)) != 0)
18:15:34 <krinn> but i don't see what's wrong with using a if
18:15:59 <Alberth> in particular as the machine translates the ?: to an if anyway :)
18:16:14 <maddy_> well ?: is the same as if, I was thinking there might be a solution with another bit operator
18:16:54 <maddy_> but I might not need the whole func in it's current form, I just realized
18:17:01 <planetmaker> krinn, the only advantage is that it is a bit more concise... and looks cool like you know stuff :-P
18:17:03 <Alberth> != 0 versus == 0 perhaps?
18:18:24 <maddy_> I will structure my code a bit different, so don't waste thought on that problem :)
18:19:38 <krinn> without knowing it at all, i would say your function should return (GetSignalState(t) != 0) and that's all
18:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> why is it, when i invest in a second treating room for generic deseases, there only come patients for tooth doctor and brain doctor the whole day?
18:20:44 <maddy_> Eddi|zuHause: some game?
18:20:56 <Alberth> to keep you busy refurbishing the rooms?
18:21:10 <Alberth> maddy_: nah, real life of course :)
18:21:15 <TWerkhoven> hospital tycoon? or theme hospital
18:21:37 <maddy_> well, if it's real life, then it'd be interesting, is what I'm thinking
18:22:01 <planetmaker> TWerkhoven, sounds like CorsixTH ;-)
18:22:18 <Alberth> no tooth doctor in CTH
18:22:46 <planetmaker> I hate doctors and especially dentists
18:23:01 <Alberth> krinn: CTH == open source TH
18:23:05 <planetmaker> except when I *really* need them
18:23:49 <krinn> planetmaker, that's why God invent dogs & ropes
18:23:51 <maddy_> planetmaker: well, they inflict pain on you, and make YOU pay for it, so it's no wonder it's psychologically unpleasant
18:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the only REAL hospital game...
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18:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually really hard...
18:31:30 <Supercheese> Hey look, an andy
18:31:35 <krinn> lmao Eddi|zuHause i can see why
18:32:43 <frosch123> i played biing around age of 12 at some friend's house
18:32:58 <frosch123> i can only imagine that we only got a quarter of the hokes
18:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the furthest i ever got was day 5
18:34:25 <frosch123> no idea what that means
18:34:41 <frosch123> but i remember the cars were expensive
18:34:44 <frosch123> or the drivers or so
18:35:11 <andythenorth> so new TTD will look like lomo :(
18:35:19 <andythenorth> I tweeted at them asking them to think different :P
18:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i never got around to cars... the whole running the basic clinic stuff is so expensive (unless you used the crack that everything is free)
18:37:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: you are not their target group
18:37:34 <frosch123> or did anyone from forums get a beta? :p
18:37:53 <LordAro> they probably checked and made sure we didn't :p
18:37:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: I have an ipad and an iphone, and they are targeting nostalgia...so?
18:38:04 <Supercheese> I have a feeling anyone who mentioned OTTD was denied beta
18:38:11 <andythenorth> I didn't mention openttd :)
18:38:44 <frosch123> i thought they are targeting people who never played the earlier games
18:39:28 <andythenorth> "It's not going to be everyone's kind of game, but the kind of players who enjoyed Transport Tycoon many years ago and also new players who want to play an in-depth strategy game will hopefully see the appeal in such a complex and large game running on a tablet or mobile phone which is always with them."
18:40:35 <Supercheese> Hmm, I'm not very fond of the new FIRS station names
18:41:09 <Supercheese> Color me odd if you must, but I really like "[Town Name] [Industry Name]" nearby station names
18:41:47 <Supercheese> à la "Toronto Grain Mill" or "Berlin Lime Kiln"
18:41:48 <andythenorth> Supercheese: take it up with devs
18:41:55 <Supercheese> andythenorth: am.
18:42:02 <andythenorth> no no I just draw
18:42:06 <Supercheese> unless you meant OTTD devs :P
18:42:18 <frosch123> Supercheese: totonto iron ore mine sounds silly
18:42:25 <Supercheese> frosch123: No it does not
18:42:42 <andythenorth> we could play this game for a while
18:43:25 <frosch123> "interesting station names" vs "boring station names"
18:43:36 <andythenorth> when do we ever vote?
18:43:42 <andythenorth> what would a vote prove? :o
18:44:04 <Supercheese> some of the "interesting" names are very odd
18:44:04 <Alberth> when do you have station name even displayed? :p
18:44:35 <Alberth> interesting point in time :p
18:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause> make it a parameter!!
18:44:47 <Supercheese> I'm confused how "portland" = "refinery"
18:44:56 * planetmaker finds the new station names nicer than the plain {TOWN} {INDUSTRY} types
18:45:20 <planetmaker> Supercheese, you probably will have an EEG of myself. It will surely be inconclusive ;-)
18:45:37 <andythenorth> Supercheese: just patch it :P
18:45:49 <Supercheese> Patch indeed, was just typing that
18:46:20 <frosch123> Supercheese: make an ottd patch
18:46:22 <andythenorth> or switch US lang to 'boring names'
18:46:30 <andythenorth> or make an NZ lang or somethnig
18:46:32 <frosch123> to name every station according to the industry name
18:46:45 <frosch123> then you can also make it name them "refinery 1" and "refinery 2"
18:46:55 <frosch123> it's not only boring, but it is also silly to code that into a newgrf
18:47:12 <andythenorth> ottd advanced setting
18:47:36 <planetmaker> you now got your patch option offered on a silver platter :D
18:48:00 <planetmaker> to solve it once and for all :-)
18:48:06 <Supercheese> but anyway, patch for parameter, yes?
18:48:12 <andythenorth> a FIRS parameter?
18:48:20 <planetmaker> an openttd adv. setting
18:48:43 <planetmaker> frosch is the newgrf authority :-P
18:48:47 <Supercheese> seems to me it's more of a newgrf thing
18:48:53 <andythenorth> it's really bloody silly to spend time writing newgrf props to copy the industry name into the station name
18:49:00 <andythenorth> it's totally redundant
18:49:11 <andythenorth> and it's (mostly) not how TTD names stations, which matters to me
18:49:17 <Supercheese> but also much easier than OTTD patching
18:49:24 <andythenorth> easier != better
18:49:35 <planetmaker> openttd patching should not be terribly difficult in that respect either, Supercheese
18:50:03 <planetmaker> add an adv. setting. locate the station naming function and make use of it there
18:51:28 <planetmaker> the interesting part there is that {INDUSTRYTYPE} is a localized string
19:00:46 <andythenorth> I want FIRS to suck less :(
19:01:32 * planetmaker didn't notice that FIRS sucks
19:01:35 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: interesting
19:01:41 <andythenorth> it isn't done yet
19:02:31 <Supercheese> removed the small boats from the terminal, I see
19:02:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth, that terminal is bulk for granular stuff but not ores. So... it's not exactly general-purpose bulkd
19:02:47 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I know, that's the problem :(
19:02:59 <andythenorth> if I want to change cargos, it's not generic
19:03:12 <andythenorth> I could use the thing from alu plant
19:03:14 <Alberth> shouldn't the cranes be higher? eg at a rails at least as high as that shed?
19:04:19 <planetmaker> did you know that in grain containers the weight is carried by the walls, if they're filled higher than their diameter?
19:04:22 <V453000> andythenorth: cut the slack and stop reusing sprites on industries :P it needs some new magix
19:04:38 <andythenorth> V453000: it's getting that way
19:04:48 <andythenorth> running out of copy-paste options :(
19:05:00 <andythenorth> I am copy-pasting CHIPS
19:05:06 <andythenorth> but most of CHIPS is reused FIRS :P
19:05:18 <andythenorth> V453000: draw me a bulk terminal?
19:05:32 <andythenorth> buildings are piss easy, only one angle
19:05:36 <V453000> I am getting my brain demolished by recolour sprites atm
19:05:47 <andythenorth> I can even do the shading, just do me an outline of stuff
19:05:50 <V453000> might draw coffee next week
19:05:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what do you mean with 'taking from aluminum plant'?
19:05:57 <andythenorth> I have zero inspiration right now for drawing
19:06:04 <V453000> hm will see about them buildings
19:07:07 <planetmaker> ah, those. Well... yes... not sure
19:07:23 <planetmaker> Bulk terminals - in my imagination - are rather open and roofless
19:07:37 <planetmaker> except the containers / silos which you already show :-)
19:09:24 <planetmaker> nice image, andythenorth. Proves your point :D
19:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that is not a bulk terminal
19:10:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: why not?
19:11:38 <andythenorth> need a big crane :)
19:11:47 <andythenorth> seems MB is ahead of me :)
19:11:53 <maddy_> semaphore vs electric is just for looks, right? makes no difference functionally, and can mix them up?
19:13:25 <andythenorth> this terminal needs to build more on land
19:18:02 <maddy_> good stuff, logic signals are coming soon guys, time to stop for today
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19:35:10 * andythenorth making bloody industries :P
19:35:46 <MNIM> Ah. busy with the livestock factories?
19:36:39 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: I re-worked openttd-admin.py .. should behave a lot smoother now .. think you'll like what it can do.
19:38:44 <Xaroth|Work> always wanted to make something with urwid
19:39:13 <Xaroth|Work> but this should also show 90% of the stuff one would need for making other interfaces, like IRC bots :)
19:39:36 <TWerkhoven> i just got rcvchat working with your events
19:42:54 <TWerkhoven> btw, previous incarnation of openttdadmin.py would choke on clients quitting, did you know that?
19:43:15 <Xaroth|Work> it would choke on a lot of things :P
19:43:19 <Xaroth|Work> hence the re-work
19:46:08 <TWerkhoven> this one handles it fine yes
19:48:24 <Xaroth|Work> chat should also be displayed more sanely
19:48:56 <Xaroth|Work> and the clients and company list now show in a table form
19:49:02 <TWerkhoven> actually chatting crashes it
19:49:35 <TWerkhoven> typeerror, _chat() takes exactly 7 args (6 given)
19:50:07 <Xaroth|Work> er, I think you're using an old trackingclient; that one's updated as well
19:50:18 <Xaroth|Work> events.chat now sends the client object if it's available
19:50:51 <TWerkhoven> i take it it sends the same with clientjoin/quit?
19:51:59 <Xaroth|Work> with join/quit it's slightly different
19:52:08 <Xaroth|Work> it sends the raw clientID if it doesn't know the client
19:52:12 <Xaroth|Work> else it sends the client object
19:52:20 <Xaroth|Work> so an isinstance(client, (long, int)) can filter those out
19:54:42 * TWerkhoven updates trackingclient too
19:54:53 <TWerkhoven> before i base too much on the old version
19:55:20 <Xaroth|Work> btw, technically openttd-admin.py will work without having libottdadmin2 actually installed, as it'll inject the proper path if it's available (if ../libottdadmin2/ exists)
19:55:51 <Xaroth|Work> but it'll give a warning for display (it'll appear when you close it again)
19:57:09 <TWerkhoven> i should probably do the same, fail properly if it cannot find libottdadmin2
19:57:17 <TWerkhoven> instead of just generic supybot error
20:11:46 <Rubidium> doesn't like like high speed or something
20:12:55 <planetmaker> nice photos, andythenorth
20:13:08 <andythenorth> they are pretty epic though
20:13:15 <andythenorth> mongolia for r30k?
20:13:59 <V453000> sure send us a post card :P
20:14:59 <andythenorth> some of these new bulk terminal layouts look ugly on minimap :(
20:15:10 <andythenorth> minimap prettiness is very important
20:15:34 <TWerkhoven> openttd-admin.py doesnt seem to display players creating new companies
20:15:41 <TWerkhoven> joining spectators or existing companies works fine
20:16:04 <TWerkhoven> is that expected behaviour?
20:17:32 <Xaroth|Work> ah, yeh, not yet implemented that part
20:18:33 <andythenorth> that Cat loader is *big*
20:22:34 <MNIM> Ehh. Wheels still seem to be less than one story tall.
20:29:42 <V453000> LOL since when does he have that quit quote
20:30:01 <TWerkhoven> for a few days at least
20:30:03 <planetmaker> at least yesterday. then I noticed :-)
20:30:54 <Bad_Brett> so V453000, did you came up with any ideas for andy's truck set?
20:31:09 <V453000> cant say I care about trucks :)
20:31:31 <V453000> but when it comes to heqs, they are so slow that it is too boring for me
20:31:32 <TWerkhoven> since before 1.3.2 became the stable release
20:31:37 <Bad_Brett> but he said he can't make it without you
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20:31:52 <andythenorth> I said I can't make the space truck version
20:32:16 <V453000> wtf is a space truck anyway
20:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> if YOU don't know, nobody will :p
20:34:26 <andythenorth> actual nyancat looks a bit truck shaped
20:36:29 <MNIM> Heh. whenever I hear nyancat I always think of a couple of friends of mine.
20:36:42 <MNIM> they have this huge mural of it in their living room.
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21:01:39 <Arkabzol> How can I find out about the buildings and what kind of stats they have?
21:04:59 <planetmaker> right most button
21:07:01 *** Arkabzol has joined #openttd
21:07:14 <Arkabzol> Sorry. My IRC client acted up.
21:07:25 <Arkabzol> But yeah. The big question mark button. Of course...
21:07:25 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> right most button
21:07:25 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> main toolbar
21:08:11 *** Malinux- has joined #openttd
21:08:50 <Malinux-> openttd 1.3.2 Ubuntu 12.04.2 suddenly pauses without me hitting the pause-button. Someone know where to look? I have not recently added any new-grfs
21:09:13 <LordAro> sounds odd, newgrfs wouldn't affect that
21:09:20 <LordAro> you touching the keyboard at all?
21:09:38 <Malinux-> noe. just using external mouse
21:09:56 <Malinux-> hm.. does autosave pause the game?
21:10:33 <Malinux-> It's very odd. I have played many hours today and the last days and this has never happend before
21:10:52 <Malinux-> ran openttd -d for debug, but nothing in therminal when it just entered pause-mode
21:11:44 <Malinux-> tried to not touch anything. it stills happens
21:14:14 <Malinux-> hm, it could be another program running using a lot of resources. I quit the program and it doesen't just pause any more. Maybe too early to be sure
21:15:17 <planetmaker> Malinux-, you didn't join a multiplayer game? Or used a game script?
21:15:27 <andythenorth> bouys are boring
21:15:58 <andythenorth> can't the game just cache some linkgraph for ship routing?
21:16:14 <andythenorth> I suppose it would have to be updated whenever station or terrain alters
21:16:22 *** SamanthaD has joined #openttd
21:16:26 <planetmaker> that, andythenorth
21:16:43 <planetmaker> it's a way of laying tracks for ships :-)
21:17:17 <andythenorth> do ships calculate route every tick?
21:17:25 <andythenorth> or do they cache for a certain period?
21:17:26 <planetmaker> every tile border
21:17:33 <planetmaker> but yapf does have a cache
21:17:36 <andythenorth> wondering if the game can auto-bouy
21:17:48 <andythenorth> give the lighthouses some purpose? :P
21:18:34 <Arkabzol> I like how the AdiIRC quit message doesn't mention weechat :-)
21:19:03 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
21:21:03 <Malinux-> planetmaker: no. I have to date never played openttd with multiplayer :(
21:21:33 <Malinux-> planetmaker: the odd thing is. I quit tv-maxe and it's not randomly pause it self anymore
21:22:04 <planetmaker> probably that programme used all your cpu
21:22:24 <Malinux-> planetmaker: I think it did...
21:22:59 <Malinux-> Arkabzol: weechat is cool :)
21:25:13 <Malinux-> from one to another. will it be possible someday in the future to have the airports as objects to actually work?
21:25:34 <Malinux-> or have several planes on final at the same time, as in the real world?
21:28:00 <Malinux-> V453000: yes, but it's not easy to program such things I belive
21:28:16 <Malinux-> but if it's possible it would mean more effective airports
21:28:31 <V453000> which isnt really anyhow useful
21:28:41 <V453000> especially considering the effort
21:29:47 <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: adding the creating-new-company bit now
21:29:57 <Malinux-> so the effect is so little it's not worth doing it?
21:30:48 <planetmaker> "worth doing" is highly subjective
21:31:32 <planetmaker> the game lives from people seeing something and then saying "eh, can't be too difficult to add XXX"
21:31:42 <planetmaker> and then actually trying to add it
21:31:56 <planetmaker> (instead of waiting someone else doing it)
21:32:04 <TWerkhoven> and not giving up once they see the sourcecode
21:32:15 <Xaroth|Work> 23:31:58 ] income 18446744073709551424
21:32:33 <planetmaker> income measured in sand corns?
21:32:47 <TWerkhoven> uint16 vs uint32 was it not?
21:33:22 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ
21:33:25 <Xaroth|Work> struct("Q") vs struct("q") for python
21:33:42 <Xaroth|Work> unsigned long long vs signed long long
21:34:11 <Xaroth|Work> Money vars are sent in the openttd code as if they are unsigned, even though it's not
21:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> money is int64 with an overflow-protection
21:35:21 <Xaroth|Work> p->Send_uint64(company->money);
21:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> might be a bug then
21:36:22 <Xaroth|Work> well it shouldn't matter that much tbqfh, as long as you unpack it properly :P
21:36:37 <Xaroth|Work> and not assume that if it's sent as an uint64, that you should unpack it as an uint64
21:36:43 <Xaroth|Work> 23:36:02 ] income -767
21:37:43 <Malinux-> I don't say it's easy to as I know how difficult things could be. :)
21:38:09 <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: any other quick suggestions for openttd-admin.py ?
21:38:10 <Malinux-> in my dreams I can dream of impossible things to happend :)
21:38:23 <planetmaker> Malinux-, it's not even like no-one has yet tried to implement NewGRF airports. It's... just not completely finished
21:38:35 <planetmaker> and that guy is not around any longer
21:38:49 <planetmaker> basically it's a matter of introducing user-definable state machines
21:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, how would one translate "Silberbacken" into english?
21:39:44 <planetmaker> can you translate it for me into German? ;-)
21:40:15 <planetmaker> I've no clue as of what it would describe. Unless there's a "c" too much
21:40:25 <planetmaker> or you fell into a bottle of liquid silver
21:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the "Talent 2", colloquially "Hamsterbacke", painted in silver
21:41:20 <planetmaker> you mean... I should recognize a face and see the ... right :-)
21:41:57 <Malinux-> is not around any longer, as in dead or not into openttd anymore? I hope the last :)
21:42:50 <Malinux-> I have to go to bed, but maybe I am back another day for other wishes :p :)
21:43:10 <Malinux-> * other almost impossible wishes
21:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i think "silver cheek" loses something in translation
21:51:12 *** SamanthaD has joined #openttd
21:52:32 <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: syncing the latest additions now
21:52:47 <Xaroth|Work> includes the fix for negative income/value for company economy stats
22:28:20 <Supercheese> Hmm, newgrf nearby station names seem to override all other naming methods (Town Heliport, Town Docks, etc.)
22:37:06 <Supercheese> what is action 0 property 24?
22:37:36 <Supercheese> wiki is very slow
22:38:52 <Supercheese> nearby station name, right
22:40:55 <Arkabzol> Interesting how your rating with the local authority goes quite quickly from max to "can't let you do that"
22:41:30 <Arkabzol> Not sure I agree with it...
22:41:35 <Supercheese> I just disable local authority entirely
22:41:47 <Supercheese> since I compile custom binaries
22:46:57 <SamanthaD> I love how the local authority is just fine with you plastering the entire countryside with layers upon layers of tracks but god help you if you cut down a tree ;)
22:47:39 <Supercheese> treehugging commies :P
22:48:03 <SamanthaD> Yes, but they only like NEW trees!
22:48:33 <SamanthaD> "Listen, if you want to get on our good side you'd better cut down that old growth forest over there and replace it with something, you know, more up-to-date!"
22:51:41 <Arkabzol> I'm playing a Sweden scenario, so there's forest absolutely everywhere...
22:57:11 <Bad_Brett> oh some nice activity going on here
22:58:51 <Bad_Brett> Arka, are you from Sweden?
22:59:11 <Bad_Brett> Supercheese: Any new eye candy?
22:59:31 <Supercheese> I've got 4x zoom sprites for the emergency vehicles coming
22:59:43 <Supercheese> have to sort out the 8bpp masks
23:01:04 <Bad_Brett> What software are you using?
23:01:06 <Supercheese> trying to write an OTTD patch atm
23:01:28 <Supercheese> GIMP for general raster editing
23:01:59 <Bad_Brett> can't you just do a blue material in sketchup with 100% self-illumination and remove antialiasing?
23:02:28 <Bad_Brett> that's how i create my masks
23:02:37 <Supercheese> I want action colors though
23:03:40 <Bad_Brett> are you doing it in 8bpp or can that actually be done with 32bpp sprites?
23:03:54 <Supercheese> 32bpp sprite, 8bpp mask with action colors in the mask
23:03:57 <Supercheese> figure should work
23:04:20 <Bad_Brett> are you using company colors? otherwise it seems easier to do a simple animation
23:05:11 <Supercheese> some vehicles will also have CC
23:06:24 <Supercheese> no, CC paint schemes as well as flashing lights
23:06:46 <Supercheese> see current tow truck sprites
23:07:32 <Supercheese> load the grf and build one? :P
23:08:17 <Bad_Brett> anyway, if the flashing lights won't be in CC, it seems easier to do a simple animation and only use masks for paint schemes... in my opinion that is :)
23:09:08 <Supercheese> I don't think the models I'm rendering would be easy to give animated lights to
23:09:52 * Supercheese is not really a 3d modeler
23:10:08 <Bad_Brett> maybe not... i've never used sketchup so i can't help you there really
23:10:21 <Supercheese> I like sketchup because it is very easy to use
23:10:29 <Supercheese> no silly features and weird UI like blender
23:10:39 <Bad_Brett> i hate blender as well
23:10:45 <Bad_Brett> tried to learn it, but gave up
23:10:50 <Supercheese> blender is un-usable
23:11:01 <Bad_Brett> have you tried AutoCAD?
23:11:09 <Bad_Brett> that program is a mess
23:11:25 <Supercheese> It's not really for rendering 3d models, right?
23:11:43 <Supercheese> more like drafting engineering drawings
23:11:47 <Bad_Brett> but it takes like five clicks to draw a simple line
23:12:39 <Bad_Brett> i guess it gets better if you learn the keyboard shortcuts but it's still frustrating
23:12:47 <Supercheese> should only take two, if your start and endpoint are snapped-to some feature
23:12:56 <Supercheese> well, plus 1 to activate the line tool
23:13:28 <Bad_Brett> yeah but then you have to right-click, select"quit line edit mode" and press Enter or something like that
23:13:46 <Bad_Brett> and the weird thing is
23:13:47 <Supercheese> I don't recall that being necessary
23:13:59 <Bad_Brett> that i've been using 3ds max since i was 15 years old
23:15:03 <Supercheese> I'd rather just patch FIRS
23:15:21 <Supercheese> ottd source is difficult
23:15:44 <Supercheese> it's very easy to remove things you don't like
23:15:45 <Bad_Brett> i have too much other things going on
23:15:49 <Supercheese> very hard to add new features
23:16:13 <Bad_Brett> like getting the extra turning angles to work
23:16:22 <Supercheese> although that axiom applies almost anywhere :P
23:17:12 <Bad_Brett> well, luckily, a designer knows perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away ;)
23:17:34 * Supercheese always hears that quote in Nimoy's voice, thanks to Civ4
23:19:31 <Bad_Brett> anyway, if you become a source code guru, please create a solution for those curved tracks, because i'm gonna need them... looks like my locomotives derail at every curve :P
23:19:57 <Supercheese> curved tracks are easy to hack in
23:20:03 <Supercheese> not easy to code well :P
23:20:33 <Supercheese> crude newobject overlapping tiles can hack in curved tracks
23:20:42 <Supercheese> don't even need to patch the game
23:21:19 <Bad_Brett> really? how does it work?
23:21:37 <Supercheese> it works glitchily :P
23:22:49 <Bad_Brett> the tt community is infamous for screaming "GLITCH!!!!" every time a sprite is two pixels off
23:22:51 <Supercheese> That grf does overlapping tiles I believe
23:23:19 <Supercheese> Oh wait, maybe that's not the one
23:24:12 <Supercheese> although I believe it is
23:24:34 <Bad_Brett> my entire grf is based on overlapping tiles, and i even experimented with curved tracks, but foundations made it impossible if i remember correctly
23:25:43 <Supercheese> well, the crude way is to have every possible combination of curves drawn as an overlapping newobject, and you place them beside the hard-angle tracks
23:25:58 <Supercheese> of course, that's rife with problems, but would work in many cases
23:29:27 <Supercheese> I would not recommend it
23:29:28 <Bad_Brett> it sounds a bit glitchy, yes :)
23:30:14 <Bad_Brett> sooner or later someone will hopefully get frustrated that my trains derail and make nice patch
23:30:27 <Supercheese> we need your train grf first, eh? ;)
23:31:10 <Bad_Brett> it's coming... when i get some new hardware
23:31:31 <Bad_Brett> estimated rendering time for a single locomotive is 50 hours
23:31:41 <Supercheese> yikes, how many frames for the animation?
23:31:53 <Supercheese> and how many views? more than 8 I take it?
23:32:47 <Bad_Brett> + maybe 16 frames for animations
23:33:27 <Bad_Brett> of course, wagons will need even more sprites
23:33:48 <Bad_Brett> depending on if they are loaded
23:34:09 <Bad_Brett> basically it will be 128 right turns and 128 left turns
23:36:19 <Bad_Brett> each sprite is then split up in 16 smaller sprites
23:36:19 <Supercheese> combinatorial expansion
23:36:19 <Bad_Brett> so the total sprite count for a single locomotive will be around 10 000 sprites :)
23:36:19 <Bad_Brett> luckily, the file size is not as big as you would expect
23:36:19 <Supercheese> your grf will end up with a larger filesize than zBase at this rate
23:36:43 <Bad_Brett> my test locomotive is 12 mb, and those sprites haven't been cropped at all, so i expect a much smaller filesize
23:48:05 <Supercheese> Hmm, I wonder if there's any easier-to-understand documenting of the OTTD station naming algorithm
23:49:58 <Bad_Brett> what's the problem?
23:50:03 <Supercheese> It seems to start with a large pool of available names and slowly remove some?
23:53:57 <Supercheese> be way easier to fork FIRS
23:54:48 <Arkabzol> How can something be less than a bit?
23:55:28 <Supercheese> I say we should use hectobytes
23:55:44 <Arkabzol> Capitalisation is important as fuck
23:55:51 <Arkabzol> m, M, b and B all have distinct meanings
23:58:06 <Arkabzol> The "hecto-" prefix reminds me of apples
23:58:37 <Arkabzol> Because that's the only use of it I see. Apples in hectograms.
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