IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-08-08
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01:20:00 <megakacktus> How would one transfer FiosItems from a SmallVector to a GUIList?
01:31:37 <megakacktus> wait, never mind, I think i figured it out :P
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08:07:31 <V453000> yoloswag sokool hiiiiiii <3
08:07:54 <V453000> good morning good sir
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13:17:59 <SamanthaD> I love hacking games
13:18:02 <SamanthaD> I'm not goofing off
13:18:07 <SamanthaD> I'm performing "quality assurance"
13:18:41 <Alberth> I do that so much, I basically stopped playing :p
13:19:33 <krinn> didn't play a ttd party for days... i'm looking at my ai (trying) doing it
13:21:25 <SamanthaD> I'm currently building loops on the ground and watching to make sure the vehicles separate themselves
13:21:55 <SamanthaD> then I'm going to get an account on the forums and post my patch
13:22:03 <SamanthaD> then I'm going to play it in a real game and see if it crashes :p
13:22:37 <Alberth> the game of hacking software is so much more interesting :p
13:23:01 <SamanthaD> I'm just starting to get used to this code base
13:23:47 <SamanthaD> going to update a few more patches before I try writing one of my own
13:24:06 <SamanthaD> I dunno what patch though...
13:24:17 <SamanthaD> I'm open to suggestions
13:25:36 <robotboy> Diagonal lel crossings, custom bridgeheads. I don't realy care as I'm not an active user of OpenTTD
13:28:46 <SamanthaD> yeah, I just merged Advanced Timetables to current
13:28:58 <SamanthaD> Advanced Timetables > Slim Timetables
13:32:36 <Alberth> so far, I mostly fail to understand what time tables aim to solve
13:34:03 <SamanthaD> They were SUPPOSED to help keep trains from bunching up together
13:34:41 <SamanthaD> which... they admittedly do if your idea of "playing" is more akin to bookkeeping
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13:35:48 <V453000> typical solution, "I can not use brain to solve it in game, I have to use a patch"
13:38:26 <Alberth> never tried the patches, but the standard time table seems to work well if you play without break downs, and don't change number of trains, after some manual twiddling
13:39:14 <V453000> yes and no :) the stacking can occur with it, too
13:39:27 <V453000> still, there are various other solutions to it
13:40:38 <Alberth> time tables in their current form are still too much trouble to setup, let alone maintain, so I am open to other suggestions :)
13:40:53 <SamanthaD> it's not that you can't use brain to solve it in game, it's that using brain to solve it in game is boring and grind-y
13:41:23 <SamanthaD> yeah, what this patch does is basically update the timetables in real time to adjust for changing conditions
13:42:16 <SamanthaD> I want to make a modification to this patch though... as it is it's very aggressive in that it will make trains wait in stations to get back on the new schedule
13:42:42 <SamanthaD> maybe it would be good to be able to tell it "these platforms need to be cleared as soon as possible at all times"
13:43:02 <krinn> it would have just been better to timetable the station and not the trains, with some timed signals at station entry/exit
13:43:35 <SamanthaD> krinn: how do you mean?
13:43:59 <krinn> that with some signals that light green or red for a period
13:44:22 <V453000> you can make timed signals already :)
13:44:47 <SamanthaD> yes, but then it wouln't be smart in that when you add and remove trains from a line it'll mess up their separation
13:44:54 <SamanthaD> or if you refit to faster/slower trains
13:45:04 <SamanthaD> ... or production levels change
13:45:24 <krinn> you won't care the time to travel, only if the train is there in time it can enter, if not, it wait next green light
13:46:17 <SamanthaD> that sounds like play without timetables at all
13:46:26 <SamanthaD> you get regular service by saturating the line :p
13:46:43 <krinn> yes, you time the staiton signal, not the trains
13:47:04 <V453000> sooner or later you get so much traffic in the station that you need constant saturation anyway :)
13:47:09 <SamanthaD> "Yeah, it only carries 10k passengers a month on that line but it's 2000 tiles long so I've got 50 trains!"
13:47:57 <SamanthaD> maybe what I should add to this patch is a second mode
13:48:14 <SamanthaD> instead of "evenly space all the trains" it would "try to ensure that there's always a train in the platform"
13:48:48 <SamanthaD> or perhaps some logic so that a section of track can get a speed limit so that trains don't have to stop and wait for a platform to clear on a saturated line
13:51:33 <V453000> put them in a depot if station is full for example?
13:52:24 <SamanthaD> V453000: Yes, but stopping a low-acceleration train adds more of a delay than keeping it moving at a lower speed. Also, it's less pretty.
13:53:03 <V453000> well then keep them running on a separate "waiting loop" or simply make station bigger :D
13:53:45 <V453000> btw if trains would "randomly" slow down on the network it would create some nice jams
13:54:06 <V453000> less pretty = actually building rails? :)
13:54:22 <SamanthaD> it's not for the main network, it's for feeder lines
13:54:44 <V453000> those can jam too cant they :)
13:55:50 <SamanthaD> it's just that my last three games or so have involved passenger feed-lines inside cities where there just simply isn't any room to build more tracks
13:56:04 <SamanthaD> I dunno... kinda a low priority for me right now
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14:45:38 <SamanthaD> tt-forums.net apparently thinks my registration is spam?
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15:12:12 <megakacktus> I'm having a tough time with this load dialog filter, mainly because I can't get the file list out of a SmallVector object and into a GUIList object :L
15:13:27 <megakacktus> As a GUIList inherits directly from a SmallVector, can I use the Guilist as a drop-in replacement?
15:14:17 <Alberth> just copy all entries, one at a time?
15:15:05 <megakacktus> Maybe I'm just incredibly thick but I can't find the correct methods to do that in the doxygen :P
15:18:38 <Alberth> it has Get, it has [], and it has Begin() and End()
15:20:43 <Alberth> for (const FileElement *p = gl->Begin(); p != gl->End(); p++) { /* do something with *p */ }
15:20:56 <megakacktus> Trouble is, I can't get the items from the SmallVector into the GUIList
15:21:31 <Alberth> the above are smallvector methods, so they should work
15:21:50 <Alberth> can you pastebin the patch?
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15:30:20 <Alberth> I don't see a second list
15:31:09 <megakacktus> I'm trying to get the file list out of the smallvector into a guilist so I can filter it with the built in functions, then place that guilist in the load dialog for massive win.
15:31:18 <megakacktus> I don't know if that's a crap plan though :P
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15:35:34 <Alberth> for (uint pos = this->vscroll->GetPosition(); pos < _fios_items.Length(); pos++) { const FiosItem *item = _fios_items.Get(pos); ... <-- there is the basic way to pull an element from the list, around line 360
15:36:12 <Alberth> so make a gui list, and copy the elements into it, if matched by the filter
15:36:42 <Alberth> maybe at first you want to make it work with just copying everything, ie without filtering out things
15:37:03 <megakacktus> that's what I wanted to do at first just to make sure it worked
15:37:15 <megakacktus> then start filtering
15:40:28 <Alberth> and of course modify that access method at line 360 to your new list :)
15:40:36 <Alberth> possibly at other spots too
15:45:48 <megakacktus> How exactly do I add the FiosItem I just got from _fios_items to my GUIList? I can't find the method here :P
15:47:48 <megakacktus> oh right, it inherits :)
15:48:40 <Alberth> megakacktus: a simple trick in these cases is to find another piece of code that also uses GUIList, and see what happens there. Then consult the docs to verify your findings
15:50:10 <Alberth> why invent it all from scratch if you can just borrow existing practices :)
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15:59:17 <megakacktus> :D I think I know how I can do this now!
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16:31:41 <megakacktus> hmm... "error: cannot convert 'FiosItem* const*' to 'const FiosItem*' in initialization"
16:32:23 <LordAro> those are slways fun :L
16:32:53 <Alberth> sounds correct, const pointers to data, and pointers to const data are different things :)
16:33:06 <megakacktus> Yeah, I've been wrangling that for a half hour :P
16:33:22 <Alberth> also, you're off by one * indirection :)
16:33:38 <megakacktus> I added another * and got a segfault :(
16:36:22 <SamanthaD> what is a good convention for savegame versions of patched games?
16:42:13 <Alberth> I always rename the company name to a prefix that somewhat describes the game setup
16:42:59 <Alberth> you may want to keep savegames together with the patched binary
16:43:43 <Alberth> which you can do by putting an openttd.cfg right next to the openttd binary
16:44:13 <SamanthaD> Perhaps SAVEGAME_VERSION should be an array instead of a unit16
16:44:46 <SamanthaD> one for the trunk version and the other for the version of the patch/patchset applied to it
16:45:24 <Alberth> SamanthaD: yeah, and then someone patches a patched game, and needs a 3rd field :p
16:45:48 <Alberth> You can also use different segments of the savegame number for different patches
16:46:04 <SamanthaD> like... 180 -> 1180?
16:46:13 <Alberth> ie use the upper 8 bit for your patch number :)
16:46:40 <SamanthaD> is there any technical reason why savegames can't store an array of arbitrary length as the savegame ID?
16:46:45 <SamanthaD> eeer... savegame version ID
16:46:54 <Alberth> your idea is a bit more readable for humans :)
16:47:07 <SamanthaD> that's the IMPORTANT part ;)
16:48:09 <LordAro> readable for humans? burn the heretic!
16:48:20 <Alberth> there may be limits due to compatibility with early save games
16:48:59 <SamanthaD> true... there'd need to be a function that converts a unit16 to an array of a single field if that's what it gets
16:49:40 <Alberth> so you probably end up making a new savegame version that adds a new number-array
16:50:23 <SamanthaD> OH! That's a good idea. Have the original unit16 as the trunk version and an array for patches?
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16:50:50 <Alberth> and comparing game versions becomes more complicated
16:52:11 <SamanthaD> how about a 2D Array? You have a str describing what patch it is and a number for a revision
16:52:59 <LordAro> megakacktus: rather useless without the patch (or crash.dmp)
16:54:11 <Alberth> megakacktus: compile with debugging, so you get can use gdb to get a readable stack dump
16:54:30 <Alberth> SamanthaD: so complicated to store just one extra number
16:55:36 <Alberth> if you don't know what patch it contains, you are doing something wrong :)
16:57:24 <Alberth> just use a larger number than current trunk (eg 1000, 1010, 1020, etc), and you have enough information to know what it is
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17:02:17 <megakacktus> So I think I set up my pointers improperly :(
17:03:40 <LordAro> i think that's quite likely :)
17:03:50 <LordAro> that's generally the reason for segfaults
17:04:03 <LordAro> (in my limited experience)
17:08:41 <Alberth> megakacktus: I don't see a new list nor do I see any copying??
17:10:44 <megakacktus> maybe I pasted the old patch, I'll try again
17:16:58 <Alberth> this->vscroll->GetPosition() line 62 should be 0, since you want to copy the entire list
17:20:07 <Alberth> _fios_items.Length() line 119, looks wrong, you are using a different list to read from
17:21:16 <megakacktus> yeah that might be a problem
17:21:46 <SamanthaD> eeek! I delete my ~/.openttd directory and OTTD starts with a window of ZERO size O.O
17:21:59 * SamanthaD goes to see if it does the same thing in trunk
17:22:37 <Alberth> be careful with not introducing changes that are irrelevant to the patch you're making: 31-33, 121 extra " " after the "*", 150
17:24:22 <SamanthaD> it also crashes! I think it's my latest revision
17:24:45 * SamanthaD sings the praises of revision control!
17:27:24 <Alberth> one of the things you wonder how you ever managed to live without it :)
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17:29:54 <SamanthaD> why is it that gcc complies fast when you don't care and takes FOREVER when you're anxious for it to get done?!
17:30:53 <frosch123> it's controled by /dev/mood
17:32:24 <megakacktus> is FiosItem* const* a constant pointer to a pointer to a class?
17:32:43 <frosch123> read it from right to left
17:32:54 <frosch123> a is pointer to a const pointer to fiositem
17:36:57 <SamanthaD> that is REALLY weird
17:37:32 <SamanthaD> I set the savegame version to 1185 and it completely hosed everything...
17:37:36 <SamanthaD> ah well, I won't do that then
17:38:23 <frosch123> SamanthaD: it's currently saved as uint8
17:38:36 <frosch123> though it can be extended to uint16
17:39:10 <SamanthaD> the line in my code says "extern const unit16"
17:39:40 <Alberth> ha, you make the same "unit" typo I always make :)
17:40:42 <frosch123> hmm, maybe we already extended it to uint16 :p
17:41:05 <SamanthaD> and int defaults to 32bit, right?
17:42:45 <SamanthaD> I need a faster processor...
17:43:33 <SamanthaD> I think it might be because I'm setting the savegame version from an int
17:43:41 <SamanthaD> int to uint16 might be causing problems
17:43:56 <frosch123> ah, SL_MAX_VERSION was the weird thing
17:45:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25701 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-08-08 17:45:30 UTC)
17:45:37 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38 <DorpsGek> english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
17:45:39 <DorpsGek> finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
17:45:40 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:41 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 3 changes by cuthbert
17:50:52 <megakacktus> no more segfaults, yay!
17:52:21 <megakacktus> I *think* i'm on the right track
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18:26:43 <Wolf01> today I saw frogs swimming in the air, some fish too
18:28:09 <frosch123> you were quite thirsty then
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18:33:28 <Wolf01> it's really too wet here, the humidity reached 71% today
19:01:05 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25702 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.h (2013-08-08 19:01:02 UTC)
19:01:06 <DorpsGek> -Add: about 3000 years of savegame compatibility.
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19:11:33 <SamanthaD> THanks for the fix, frosch123
19:13:45 * Rubidium is sad about the size of the commit message
19:14:15 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 43 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
19:14:58 <frosch123> Rubidium: should i have used "-Change: oh... that's just way too easy" ?
19:15:16 <frosch123> or just "3000 years [citation needed]"?
19:16:09 <Rubidium> Wolf01: you call that wet? The average humidity (over ~30 years) for early august is 77% over here
19:16:15 <SamanthaD> Maybe he just wanted you to change it from a 16bit word to a 64bit word, just to be on the safe side ;)
19:18:36 <Rubidium> Wolf01: and it ain't the rain either, as a week ago it was on average (over 24 hours) about 25 degrees with 91% sun and no rain whatsoever but still 68% humidity
19:19:06 <Rubidium> frosch123: the commit message could've easily been multitudes of the patch size long
19:20:06 <Wolf01> but here there are also 36°C, wich feel like 42°C with the humidity
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19:41:09 <SamanthaD> why the heck is mercurial reporting merges for files I never freaking changed?!
19:41:26 <dihedral> any chance one of the guys in amsterdam would have me and my brother in law stay a night?
19:41:57 <dihedral> we are looking for a cheap place to stay for one night, during our fun fair tour :-)
19:42:04 <dihedral> Rubidium? TrueBrain? :-P
19:42:44 <dihedral> sometime during the last week of august
19:43:00 <SamanthaD> this is very disconcerting...
19:43:20 <megakacktus> crap, more segmentation faults :(
19:43:50 <LordAro> SamanthaD: maybe you updated by accident? what does hg diff / hg stat say?
19:44:07 <SamanthaD> LordAro: I'm sure I didn't...
19:44:38 <SamanthaD> I did the hg stat right before the update
19:44:47 <SamanthaD> things all went to hell
19:47:46 <frosch123> you have voxels in frct?
19:48:24 * LordAro continues pointing at Alberth
19:48:24 <Alberth> SamanthaD: run a diff between the old the the new revision (perhaps with --stat for a compressed file overview)
19:48:50 <SamanthaD> Alberth: Yes, I should do that. Give me a sec.
19:49:31 <Alberth> not the kind of voxels that other people think :)
19:49:49 <Alberth> ie it's just the 3d grid in FreeRCT
19:50:17 <SamanthaD> "voxel" makes me think of a small furry animal
19:50:52 <frosch123> we already have a squirrel plague in ottd, please don't bring in more animals
19:51:42 <Alberth> you forgot the unicorns
19:51:54 <frosch123> oh, that's only one
19:52:25 <SamanthaD> I keep seeing the squirrels
19:52:28 <SamanthaD> what the heck are they?!
19:53:14 <frosch123> LordAro: i haven't seen a pony in months :p
19:53:33 <Alberth> used for AIs and GSes
19:54:42 <megakacktus> is GRF pronounced 'gerf' or 'griff'?
19:55:04 <frosch123> it isn't pronounced, it is yelled in anger
19:55:10 <Rubidium> dihedral: I'm not even close to Amsterdam (in Dutch terms at least)
19:55:46 <LordAro> i pronounce it gee-arr-eff
19:56:16 <SamanthaD> Alberth: hg diff src/order_backup.cpp shows about half the file getting added
19:56:48 <SamanthaD> which... I don't doubt it was but... considering I didn't modify it you'd think the automatic merger would have fixed it without me having to tweak at it
19:56:53 <frosch123> NewGiraffe? i approve
19:56:57 <LordAro> SamanthaD: editor screwup? "hg revert src/order_backup.cpp"
19:57:10 <Alberth> SamanthaD: EOL convention changed?
19:57:25 <SamanthaD> LordAro: Yeah... I suppose. I didn't actually do anything with an editor though. I just applied a patch.
19:57:57 <Alberth> frosch123: new animal is always good
19:58:21 <SamanthaD> Alberth: No... I don't think so... easiest explanation is a mercurial bug :p
20:03:23 <Alberth> never seen hg mess up a file before :o
20:03:53 <krinn> never seen a girl that doesn't mess up something before
20:05:04 *** krinn was kicked by DorpsGek (oops, messed up)
20:05:16 <Alberth> I did see it crash on smaller stuff like failing to delete the same patch twice :)
20:06:05 <glx> DorpsGek is just an idiot
20:06:20 <megakacktus> Ok... so all the segfaults are gone... now the GUIList just isn't displaying :s
20:06:26 <LordAro> and a girl? or is that just implied? :P
20:06:32 <megakacktus> but... I can still access files from it o.O
20:08:54 <Alberth> megakacktus: nice for randomly picking a save game :)
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20:43:03 <LordAro> megakacktus: make a "random" button :P
20:48:31 <megakacktus> OpenTTD Roulette (R)
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20:56:56 <TWerkhoven> xaroth: ingame date of 20th november 1950, comes in as ServerDate -> {'date': datetime.datetime(1950, 11, 21, 0, 0)}, is that right?
21:06:51 <LordAro> Xaroth|Work: ^ in case that helps :)
21:14:02 <TWerkhoven> might do, i think he highlights both
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23:32:51 <SamanthaD> is there some way in Hg I can combine two consecutive commits into one?!
23:33:49 <SamanthaD> I'm finding myself in a lot of situations where I want to commit work that's clearly not done just so I can revert to it when there's, say, a big huge complex merge or something and it would be nice to merge the "there, all done" commit and the intermediate commits together
23:39:20 <SamanthaD> oh, I see how to do it
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