IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-07-26
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02:55:16 <xDraKx> Can someone tell me a great and HARD AI BOT opponents to play against?
03:02:12 <xDraKx> Can someone tell me a great and HARD AI BOT opponents to play against?
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07:03:29 <Xaroth|Work> George: that's hardly a bug report
08:11:55 <frosch123> hmm, i should listen to some metal today
08:14:58 <V453000> btw, pm: SmatZ not coming, he is on holiday near sea, returns tonight, needs to prepare for new job on monday
08:16:48 <__ln__> "Hier nicht aussteigen" "here not get out"
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08:23:45 <NGC3982> This Rasperry Pi project did not end up as cheap as one thought.
08:24:56 <NGC3982> Finding out that composite video was broken, so i had to buy a HDMI>VGA converter, and with that a new 5V power supply, and with that a new chassie, and with that everything else.
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09:02:28 <Xaroth|Work> wheaaaaatooooooon
09:16:13 <NGC3982> Mm. Cumbertomato did a great Khan.
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09:42:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, sherlock is cool
09:42:49 <planetmaker> bah, that sucks, V453000 :-(
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10:54:43 * __ln__ is eating a meal in Wolfenbuettel
10:59:02 <planetmaker> wolfenbüttel is nice really
10:59:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never been there, actually :)
10:59:21 <planetmaker> will you or did you see the library there, __ln__ ?
10:59:35 <planetmaker> with the evengelium of Henry the Lion?
10:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: anything in particular i should bring? i'm about to go shopping now
11:04:06 <planetmaker> insulation matrace and sleeping bag. If you feel like bringing something to eat, like making a salad or cake, it's your choice, just tell me what
11:06:51 <planetmaker> if you can make a salat yourself, that likely would be more delicious than bought ones.
11:07:06 <planetmaker> I won't manage to make salads for all, I think
11:07:34 <V453000> spartans, tonight we dine beer
11:07:53 <planetmaker> well... salat. not letuce
11:08:10 <planetmaker> though salat can include latuce ;-)
11:08:27 <V453000> POINT IS: it generally does not include beer
11:09:34 <__ln__> pm, didn't see a lbrary yet, maybe i should
11:09:53 <planetmaker> it's not big. it's also downtown. and worth the visit
11:17:54 <V453000> you cannot drink a library ...
11:18:43 <__ln__> is it Herzog August Bibliothek?
11:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i'll try a potato salad, then. just need to figure out a transportation and cooling method...
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11:20:20 <V453000> how about I bring beer, say, 80 bottles?
11:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> 80? sounds a bit much... assuming you're not the only one bringing beer :)#
11:22:13 <V453000> anyway Eddi I will come by a big car sooo if you want like an unicorn, we can take it too
11:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't assume it is refrigerated, though :p
11:24:19 <V453000> unicorn? dunno what you got :D
11:24:59 <planetmaker> V453000, sounds alright to me. 80 bottles... for 14(?) people... maybe not everyone has Czech drinking stamina :D
11:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fresh out of unicorns, i'm afraid
11:25:17 <planetmaker> we'll have unicorns at the party, no doubt
11:25:25 <planetmaker> it's a long night
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11:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "Britain's new internet filtering program will be provided by Huawei (China)"
11:28:43 <Alberth> sounds like a splendid idea :p
11:28:56 <Rubidium> planetmaker: at most 13 drinking beer ;)
11:31:27 <peter1139> Well they have experience of censorship...
11:47:03 * Alberth will also not drink beer
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12:11:08 <frosch123> bye, see you tomorrow :)
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12:36:41 <fjb> At most 12 drinking beer. ;)
12:37:04 <V453000> do you drink pure ethanol or
12:38:17 <Rubidium> I doubt anyone drinks pure ethanol ;)
12:38:40 <V453000> maybe not anybody in dutchylands, here some people do
12:38:56 <fjb> When does it begin tomorrow?
12:39:41 <Rubidium> V453000: more in the sense that I reckon it's impossible to create pure ware (pure as in without impurities)
12:40:16 <planetmaker> fjb, I said like 15h or so
12:40:23 <planetmaker> but anytime in the afternoon will be fine
12:40:34 <planetmaker> I just came back from the butcher... I hope that I got enough :D
12:41:04 <fjb> We can get more tomorrow, if it isn't. :)
12:41:20 <Rubidium> so... should I buy stroopwafels?
12:41:24 <V453000> if you aint got at least 2 whole cows and a whole unicorn, then it clearly isnt enough :P could reduce the beef amount, but the rest ...
12:41:31 <planetmaker> oh :-) stroopwafels and vanilla fla
12:41:48 <Xaroth|Work> chocoladehagelslag?
12:42:01 <planetmaker> if you want it for breakfast or on ice cream... then that, too
12:42:02 <Rubidium> don't think I can manage keeping vanilla vla refridgerated for long enough
12:42:11 <planetmaker> true. bad time of the year
12:42:35 <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: koelbox should handle it for a couple of hours?
12:42:45 <V453000> see, it all fits together, beer is a solution to everything
12:42:54 <planetmaker> I think I got like 2 pieces of meat per person and a sausage... will that suffice?
12:43:01 <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: don't have one, and since I'm going by train for a bit first... it's a bit of a hassle
12:43:03 <V453000> I am pretty sure it should pm :)
12:43:15 <planetmaker> oh, and... how is it called? "Spieß"
12:43:18 <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: yeh, that doesn't work :P
12:43:19 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if it isn't a French sausage, then I guess it's enough
12:43:26 <V453000> hm I will get a 1kg party mix of salty stuff
12:43:36 <planetmaker> I already got a dip.
12:43:45 <planetmaker> The woman at the butcher's knows how to sell stuff :D
12:43:54 <planetmaker> no. dip goes with salty stuff :-)
12:44:37 <planetmaker> well... no. it's creamy pasty... you dip in the salty stuff there
12:44:51 <V453000> we dont use that civilized things here :P
12:44:51 <Prof_Frink> You can't dip stuff in a pasty.
12:44:54 <Rubidium> unless TrueBrain has a koelbox... and buys the stuff that needs to be refridgerated
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12:46:03 <Alberth> V453000: so no need to bring beer, we have dip already :p
12:46:23 <V453000> Alberth: dip sounds risky though, better safe than sober
12:46:31 <planetmaker> ok... but if V brings so much beer, I should reduce the amount to buy that from my list
12:46:50 <fjb> We need a real world pipeline grf for the vla.
12:48:00 <planetmaker> so, will we all also play a joint session of OpenTTD when we're here?
12:48:26 * fjb doesn't habe a note book. :(
12:48:54 * Alberth only has paper note books :(
12:49:06 <fjb> I have only an Android tablet. And OpenTTD fpr Android is not really playable.
12:49:30 <V453000> so pm obtain a pc for everyone :D
12:49:37 <planetmaker> I've two computers which work... my desktop and my notebook... ;-)
12:49:54 <V453000> they can hotseat, iz k
12:50:33 <V453000> openttd hotseat is that multiple people share one pc, one plays, rest drinks
12:51:15 <planetmaker> that definitely works fine
12:51:16 <V453000> the drinking crew must consume at least the same amount as the monthly production of the highest producing secondary, or else!
12:51:46 <planetmaker> I kinda do that stuff with a friend of mine semi-regularily. Not OpenTTD, though. But definitely one playing, both drinking ;-)
12:51:48 <V453000> those are the rules, cant explain that
12:52:33 <V453000> we usually do that with some starcraft towerdefense or something
12:52:46 <fjb> You should drink much, it is hot out there.
12:53:29 <V453000> exactly, also beer doesnt have much vitamins in it so you have to drink a lot of it to compensate
12:53:53 <V453000> that doesnt make sense
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13:11:47 <LordAro> hmm, do i need a separate /boot partition? (if so, why?)
13:13:04 <Alberth> not really needed, I made one because at one time, the OS required ext3 for the boot partition, and ext4 for /
13:14:14 <LordAro> ext4 is the 'best', right?
13:16:58 <Alberth> I think there are newer file systems, but tbh I don't care much, as I don't depend much on disk access speed anyway
13:17:37 <Rubidium> hell no, ReiserFS is best! ;)
13:17:44 <Xaroth|Work> there are more oppinions about which fs is best, than there are fs'
13:20:07 <LordAro> fine, i'll go with ext4 :P
13:21:08 <LordAro> how about /swap? i've read that it should be 2*(size of RAM), but is this still valid today when i have 8GB RAM?
13:23:21 <Xaroth|Work> I usually do some swap, as I hate having to deal with OOM-killed processes
13:23:29 <Xaroth|Work> but I usually cap it at 5g
13:24:22 <LordAro> that's what i've got currently
13:24:23 <Rubidium> I think that depends whether you want to suspend-to-disk; IIRC (not 100% sure), that saves RAM into swap
13:29:37 <Alberth> LordAro: you want enough swap to move unused application data out of memory, more is quite useless. Executing programs stored at swap is so slow, it's not worth waiting for.
13:30:30 <LordAro> well, i've never seen my swap being used (currently at 5GB) so that's enough?
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13:34:08 <Alberth> so you need to invent some program that's big enough to start using swap :p
13:34:11 <Pinkbeast> LordAro: 2*RAM is folklore.
13:34:55 <Pinkbeast> LordAro: _many_ years ago, swap had to be = RAM on Linux. Various versions of this rule have mutated and floated around since.
13:35:10 <Pinkbeast> LordAro: On the face of it now, for a given projected load, more memory implies less swap.
13:52:26 <V453000> or is that joke even a fedora reference? :d
13:56:18 <Pinkbeast> Hipsters and fedoras shurely
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15:14:38 <peter1139> how the hell does freeciv manage to switch from square to hex grid... during game...
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15:17:01 <Alberth> hex grid is just a square grid with the even columns moved 1/2 square down? :)
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15:19:46 <peter1139> it's more the movement restrictions i'm thinking of
15:20:53 <peter1139> it seems to get around that by allowing you to move along an edge between 2 tiles
15:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause> hex grid is just defining which tiles are adjacent?
15:35:55 <heffer> planetmaker: weekend trip? :D
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16:01:56 <heffer> ah i see. i'm in stuttgart atm unfortunately
16:05:41 <__ln__> tomorrow's forecast is now 36 degrees
16:05:51 <peter1139> that's 1/10th of a circle
16:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i have some sort of a laptop, but it's not "gaming optimized"
16:07:01 <peter1139> i bet it runs openttd fine
16:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's rather a work laptop and should probably not run games of any kind
16:07:30 <peter1139> my work laptop is about 10 years old now
16:07:37 <__ln__> what about simulations
16:07:43 <peter1139> so not much cop for games. or java. or... anything really.
16:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about mine. but it has vista on it
16:12:44 <planetmaker> heffer, that's close. We'll have attendance from Montreal :-)
16:13:13 <planetmaker> and the forecast got better. Chance for rain / thunderstorm seems to have gone. But then... it's raining now :-)
16:13:15 <heffer> planetmaker: unfortunately i have other plans this weekend which is why i drove from leverkusen to stuttgart in the first place :D
16:14:03 <__ln__> pm, do you live at the same address as before?
16:14:09 <heffer> if i knew earlier i might have come :D
16:15:52 <planetmaker> see private message
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16:40:04 <xDraKx> Can I Enable the Original AI on openttd?
16:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause> xDraKx: "Simple AI" tries to mimic the original AI as good as it can
16:43:08 <xDraKx> the AIs to download on download content have on almost like the original ???
16:45:56 <xDraKx> i have tested some but all just bought lots and lots of buses trucks and dont be cool like the original ehehe
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16:55:43 <xDraKx> Simple AI is like the original ai?
16:56:04 <xDraKx> the make everything? trains airplanes, boats, trucks buses etc ???
16:57:02 <Alberth> afaik it aims to do that, how much it succeeded, I don't know
17:07:34 <xDraKx> have a openttd version with ai enabled? the Original AI
17:10:09 <TrueBrain> sometimes it seems they allow all kinds of weirdos on the internet
17:10:38 <alluke> there should be iq and personality tests before you can buy internet connection
17:11:04 <planetmaker> xDraKx, the "original AI" would simply sit and do nothing. Except spending money on pointless terraforming. Is that what you want?
17:13:23 <xDraKx> No but i test example Nocab, this AI just bought lots and lots of trucks buses, example 30 trucks in a small road.
17:13:39 <planetmaker> and it's successful. Quite successful
17:13:44 <planetmaker> Did you beat it moneywise?
17:18:14 <Alberth> time to make your own AI :)
17:18:47 <xDraKx> nocab today is the most complete ai? or have other?
17:19:03 <planetmaker> did you look at the link provided to you by Alberth ?
17:21:37 <xDraKx> y nocab is the only one with all "yes" ehehe
17:21:47 <xDraKx> but is this really the best today?
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17:22:00 <Alberth> for some definition of "best", yes
17:22:20 <Alberth> for some other definition of "best", probably no
17:26:53 <Alberth> trying to explain there are several notions of "the same" is much more fun ;)
17:45:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25628 trunk/src/lang/faroese.txt (2013-07-26 17:45:08 UTC)
17:45:17 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:18 <DorpsGek> faroese - 2 changes by karihj
17:53:34 <planetmaker> ha, it paid off that I gave him translation rights today ;-)
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18:31:33 <LordAro> hmm, ksp or minecraft?
18:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "Authorities in eastern Turkey have successfully determined a falcon to be an actual falcon, not a spy of Israel"
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19:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> <LordAro> how about /swap? i've read that it should be 2*(size of RAM), but is this still valid today when i have 8GB RAM? <-- when i went from 1GB RAM + 2GB swap to 4GB RAM i thought "i guess i don't need swap now", and got immediately an OOM, with a program that worked perfectly fine before...
19:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i now went to 12GB RAM, that seems to be enough for now :)
19:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but i hate swap partitions... too inflexible
19:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> so i added and removed swapfiles as needed instead
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19:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but the "2*RAM" thing is really just a basic figure that has proven useful during a mostly moores-law-based development, it has no real foundation
19:17:20 <peter1139> swap's a on spare drive with no load, so...
19:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> while (have OOM problems) add_swap();
19:19:43 <Rubidium> the only OOM issues I had was OOM-killer not reacting quickly enough
19:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the OOM killer never actually kicked in, it was just sitting there for hours (trying to swap? even without any swap?) never killing anything and impossible to do input
19:20:36 <Rubidium> i.e. an application that goes effectively rogue first trashes caches, then pushes other applications into swap (making the computer near unresponsive) before it's eventually OOM killed
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20:47:50 <imachine_> my dedicated server keeps removing data from [newgrf] section in config file
20:48:09 <imachine_> I have the newgrf's tar files in /usr/local/share/openttd/newgrf/
20:48:20 <imachine_> I know the newgrf's are compatible.
20:48:33 <imachine_> I run my server with openttd -D -c /usr/local/etc/openttd.cfg
20:49:02 <planetmaker> does the server have actually write access to the quoted dir?
20:49:19 <imachine_> /usr/local/bin/openttd -c /usr/local/etc/openttd.cfg -s null -m null -v null -b null -D -f this is the actual way I run it.
20:49:24 <imachine_> planetmaker, it should, I run it as root.
20:49:32 <imachine_> (maybe that's not so smart)
20:49:38 <planetmaker> definitely not smart
20:49:54 <imachine_> planetmaker, shouldn't it drop privileges or smth? I run it with an 'rc' script.
20:50:08 <imachine_> planetmaker, does openttd support privilege dropping on itself?
20:50:18 <planetmaker> dunno what an 'rc' script is, but it keeps the priviliges of the user it is started from
20:50:46 <imachine_> anything residing in /etc/rc.d or /etc/init.d could be an rc script.
20:51:02 <imachine_> (or, in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/, in this case)
20:51:44 <imachine_> anyway, yeah. that's one thing. the privileges. another is that it just doesn't work with newgrfs.
20:51:56 <planetmaker> I'd suggest: start it as a normal user. Put the relevant config file in ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
20:52:22 <planetmaker> and: start openttd only after you edited the file. It will otherwise overwrite any changes you made upon exit
20:52:35 <imachine_> that makes sense ;-)
20:52:56 <planetmaker> never run applications as root... unless you administer your system
20:53:06 <planetmaker> by means of that application
20:53:33 <planetmaker> also... openttd does not even need installing. Thus if you download openttd, unzip it in a folder like ~/ottd-server
20:53:45 <planetmaker> you can unzip the version you want to use there. And all will be fine
20:54:13 <planetmaker> you can then simply start ~/ottd-server/openttd and it will use the config file from ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
20:54:44 <planetmaker> and all content you might have in ~/.openttd/baseset ~/.openttd/content_download/* ~/.openttd/newgrf etc
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20:55:26 <planetmaker> if you plan to run *several* servers. Then place the cfg next to the binary
20:55:52 <planetmaker> and possibly symlink the content folders to the sub-folders in ~/.openttd
20:56:26 <planetmaker> lrwxrwxrwx 1 ottdc users 37 Nov 9 2012 content_download -> /home/ottdc/.openttd/content_download
20:58:46 <imachine_> planetmaker, cheers man, that's extensive.
20:58:56 <imachine_> I build my own openttd.
20:59:05 <planetmaker> build it from svn
20:59:08 <imachine_> and just realized it ran as root as we spoke.
20:59:16 <imachine_> nah, I want 1.3.1 for compatibility.
20:59:22 <imachine_> I like binary updates.
20:59:34 <planetmaker> eh... ok, so you don't build it :-)
20:59:41 <LordAro> planetmaker: the -c option should work though, right?
20:59:45 <planetmaker> I thought build = compile :-)
20:59:50 <imachine_> I like binary updates for my desktop, and build from ports on my server.
21:00:05 <planetmaker> yes, but use svn to build the binary on the server
21:00:14 <imachine_> and to keep them in line compatible, I want 1.3.1 on both sides.
21:00:14 <planetmaker> or you might not enjoy it too much. Also easier update
21:00:26 <planetmaker> you don't need that
21:00:27 <imachine_> binary on openttd is 1.3.1
21:00:31 <imachine_> planetmaker, freebsd ports.
21:01:08 <planetmaker> 1.3.1 is current. Until... this weekend :D
21:01:22 <fjb> OpenTTD easily compiles on FreeBSD without a port.
21:01:36 <imachine_> yepp, and untill the maintainer updates the freebsd port, that's what I plan on running.
21:01:54 <planetmaker> imachine_, yes... just svn checkout. And compile it. should work like a charm
21:02:00 <imachine_> thanks for the help. come join the IMC HardCore Tycoon Clash server ;)
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21:03:52 <LordAro> so are you going to press the 'release' button all together? :)
21:04:04 <glx> @planetmaker> 1.3.1 is current. Until... this weekend :D <-- spoiler
21:06:01 <planetmaker> most people who care about the exact date will be here :D
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21:06:39 <planetmaker> and I'm fine with spoiling it for LordAro this one time :D
21:06:58 * fjb should install OpenTTD on the tablet.
21:07:25 * LordAro would've attended, but Germany is a bit far for me :(
21:07:30 <planetmaker> maybe I should install an android VM
21:07:44 <planetmaker> LordAro, is it? What about... people coming from Canada?
21:07:58 <planetmaker> I bet that's further
21:08:50 <planetmaker> dunno about sweden. Might be equally far :-)
21:09:02 <planetmaker> maybe not time-wise. dunno
21:09:19 <planetmaker> last time I went to England it cost me like 35€ return for the flight
21:09:35 <LordAro> that sounds very cheap
21:09:38 <planetmaker> flight to Gatewick. Return from Birmingham
21:09:50 * LordAro never actually tried very hard :L
21:10:00 <planetmaker> travelling around by bus was also quite cheap
21:11:19 <planetmaker> ferry was like 100€ last time I took that. iirc
21:11:31 <planetmaker> took considerably longer :-)
21:11:57 <LordAro> i've only ever gone via ferry to the mainland before
21:12:16 <LordAro> huh, only 2 or 3 times i think
21:12:24 <planetmaker> was from Hamburg to Dover, I think
21:16:55 <LordAro> language barrier is rather scary too :L
21:17:31 <fjb> Most people are speaking English here, sort of.
21:17:37 <planetmaker> that is just a very sad reason, LordAro
21:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> wait, release? i thought we make 4k commits at the party...
21:19:03 <Xaroth|Work> I mean, we're at 25600 with 4400 you'll be hitting 30000
21:19:07 <Xaroth|Work> makes a better party :)
21:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well the party is called 25+4k
21:20:17 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I fear cets compile fails due to nml compile
21:20:22 <planetmaker> unless it doesn't
21:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: need eddi-nml
21:21:34 <fjb> Beach objects grf? Girls?
21:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: if you can distinguish that at 1x4 pixels :p
21:22:20 <planetmaker> beach object grf exists... girls... hard to tell ^
21:23:21 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: You could distinguish Lara Croft at that size.
21:23:49 <fjb> planetmaker: I just saw that grf in the list while installing OpenTTD on my tablet.
21:24:28 <planetmaker> anyway. Good night. And see you tomorrow
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21:51:46 <fjb> OpenTTD on Android become a lot better than the last time I tried it.
21:53:52 <V453000> I would prooobably shit a hedgehog before being satisfied with openttd without keyboard and mouse :)
21:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what god made USB for
21:54:58 <glx> need an adaptator to plug keyboard and mouse on a phone :)
21:55:17 <glx> though maybe bluetooth works too
21:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> a USB-Bluetooth adapter :p
22:10:07 <TWerkhoven> i never tried that
22:26:57 <peter1139> bluetooth keyboards don't work quite right
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continue to next day ⏵
