IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-07-24
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00:10:56 <Supercheese> Ugh, it's more than 40°C in the sun here
00:11:07 <Supercheese> a tad bit less in the shade
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00:28:41 <DabuYu> i'm wondering, is there a grf set (or any project) which creates buildings which are actually existing, so towns will have existing world buildings? especially i'm interested in skyscrapers :)
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03:55:12 <planetmaker> DabuYu, have a look maybe at Total Town Replacement Set (TTRS)
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05:03:27 <krinn> did you notice the road full of water behind it :)
05:03:53 <planetmaker> they really filled it totally with water. That's real
05:03:58 <SamanthaD> that boat is backwards...
05:04:12 <SamanthaD> the boat is supposed to go in the water...
05:04:14 <SamanthaD> not the other way around
05:04:15 <krinn> that must be so funky when taking turns
05:04:41 <SamanthaD> oh my god, that IS a car! O.O
05:04:41 <planetmaker> I guess. But for a bit cruising :-) probably cool during this weather
05:05:23 <krinn> planetmaker, you may also notice how cool it is by checking the water cleaness
05:06:01 <planetmaker> that car was caught yesterday by police. Mostly as it drove around w/o license plate :D
05:06:10 <krinn> no place for a pump : well, that guy just create the fastest mosquito incubator
05:06:48 <planetmaker> maybe a drain down?
05:06:59 <planetmaker> easy to pull the plug then
05:06:59 <krinn> lmao you see how clean the water is
05:07:19 <SamanthaD> it's pretty dirty...
05:07:26 <SamanthaD> I wouldn't drink it O.O
05:07:29 <krinn> imo he count more on keep adding water and let the sun remove some
05:07:59 <SamanthaD> so... is someone planning on making a NewGRF of the amazing carboat?
05:08:11 <krinn> SamanthaD, seriously even not drinking, would you expose, well, the lower part of your body in such a dirty water ?
05:08:54 <SamanthaD> what if I were wearing one of those rubber pants things that they give to incontinent people?
05:09:25 <krinn> Adding more ridiculous to that car is doable with those rubber pants yes
05:09:49 <SamanthaD> damnit! now I'm itchy!
05:10:37 <krinn> should wrote to the guy to insult him ! how could he didn't put a boat horn on it !
05:12:01 <Supercheese> or an outboard motor
05:12:13 <Supercheese> put a big fan on it, get some extra thrust
05:13:04 <SamanthaD> what about a boat with a self-propelled launch trailer?
05:21:10 * SamanthaD would really rather not trust the man-in-the-middle with handling the integrity of a binary to run on my computer >.>
05:23:09 <krinn> it's more to protect eyes from seeing it while transfering it, md5... are there for the alteration protection.
05:23:33 <SamanthaD> the md5 can be altered just as easily as anything else
05:23:48 <SamanthaD> you protect against alteration with public key cyphers
05:24:06 <SamanthaD> RSA as implemented in SSL, for example
05:24:38 <SamanthaD> MD5 is good for checking against accidental corruption though
05:25:12 <planetmaker> against all corruption really
05:25:26 <SamanthaD> but not a MitM attack
05:25:36 <SamanthaD> a MitM would just regenerate the MD5
05:25:46 <krinn> lol how would your man in middle can calc the md5 of a flow of datas
05:25:47 <planetmaker> encryption is to keep it secret. checksums to ... check integrity
05:26:30 <SamanthaD> krinn: they wouldn't. They would redirect the stream entirely to an evil mirror that contains the contaminated code plus doctored MD5
05:26:48 <SamanthaD> encryption can also be used to check integrity via cryptographic signing
05:27:27 <krinn> SamanthaD, you are speaking of men that are more than good, but so dumb they do all this shit instead of hacking your computer that would be easier and faster
05:28:58 <planetmaker> anyway, have a good day all :-)
05:29:05 <SamanthaD> later planetmaker :3
05:29:43 <SamanthaD> krinn: how do you think you hack a computer ;)
05:30:33 <krinn> certainly more easy than trying to hack a server to let it hack finally your target computer
05:31:05 <SamanthaD> you don't have to hack the server
05:31:12 <SamanthaD> you just have to poison my comuter's DNS pool
05:31:27 <SamanthaD> computer, not commuter
05:31:42 <SamanthaD> if you poison a commuter it's a rather more serious affair
05:32:52 <krinn> well, considering if those kind of guys were at work against you, yes, i would say it's a serious affair
05:33:16 <SamanthaD> I'm not paranoid, I'm just for security best-practices
05:33:44 <krinn> Are you that SamanthaD that keep writing me email to transfert your father's money from cameroun because he cannot do it but will grant me 20% reward ?
05:34:20 <SamanthaD> no, but she sounds pretty legit
05:34:51 <krinn> i nearly fall from my chair, sounds pretty legit :D
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09:07:34 <Aristide> Alberth: You ? HERE ? :o
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11:12:11 <__ln__> the forecast is 34° for saturday
11:14:07 <TrueBrain> __ln__: can we assume planetmaker has a pool ready then?
11:23:01 <dihedral> I am driving up from Karlsruhe - is there anybody on the way who wants/needs a lift?
11:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it's supposed to be the warmest weekend of the year
11:28:54 <Eddi|zuHause> thanks to Yohannes
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11:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a "manual" in "normal" language, and a "fucking manual" using a lot of swear words :p
12:15:47 <zooks> or just link to the kamasutra as fucking manual
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12:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong emphasis :p
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13:39:25 <Madis> Good evening. I'm wondering if it is possible to change OpenTTD strings via newGRF. newGRF specs state that Action4 feature 48 does not work with OpenTTD and translations must be done via webtranslator, so I'm not sure I can rename stuff with GRF. Can I?
13:40:17 <krinn> if to rename stuff in newGRF you need Action4 feature 48 i think you have the answer no?
13:40:20 <Madis> Was thinking about changing the Company Manager face dialog to a company logo dialog which could be customised but that would require ui text changes as well
13:40:51 <Madis> I'm just asking if there is another way
13:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Madis: there was once a discussion about a mapping between (TTD-Original) GRF string IDs and OpenTTD's internal string IDs, but i don't remember if that was actually implemented. if it was, then a few special strings could be changed by NewGRF, but not all
13:45:15 <krinn> Could you implement the logo stuff without translating text ?
13:45:44 <krinn> If you get a company with "McDonald" logo and bellow the company president name, i don't see a problem
13:51:03 <Madis> well yes I could, but I dont want to. Change the nosehair of McDonald's just does't feel right
13:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Madis: src/newgrf_text.cpp has the mapping
13:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Madis: add your string there
14:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Madis: note that this will only allow changing the strings that are there in TTD already, not the additional OpenTTD strings (e.g. the 'advanced' selection)
14:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Madis: something like this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/newgrf_face_strings.diff
14:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a bit nasty that the OpenTTD-order is button-tooltip-button-tooltip-... while the TTD order is button-button-...-tooltip-tooltip-...
14:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you only get one free highlight per day. the next one costs 10€
14:29:28 <krinn> i forget to run it with logging, rerun
14:30:52 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] AIEngine.CanPullCargo (false) : PASS(0)
14:30:52 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] AIEngine.CanPullCargo (true) : VALU(10) STEL(9) IORE(8) WOOD(7) GRAI(6) GOOD(5) LVST(4) OIL_(3) MAIL(2) COAL(1) PASS(0)
14:31:06 <krinn> the false is with callback 08 enable
14:31:23 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] AIEngine.GetName : B IX (K.Bay.Sts.B.)
14:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> B sounds like a branch line engine
14:32:04 <krinn> per default only allow passengers
14:32:14 <__ln__> does anyone need anything finland-ish?
14:32:30 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: you had some candy last time?
14:33:11 <__ln__> yeah, i did, and i'm taking the same with me again
14:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: if you look up the engine in the available vehicles menu, it should say "usage: passengers" or "usage: branch line" or something
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14:38:40 <krinn> cannot lookup as i don't get the 08 value
14:39:07 <krinn> but it should be set to STR_USAGE_PASSENGER i think
14:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "08 value"?
14:42:28 <krinn> wait picking the right name :)
14:43:02 <krinn> ai_special_flag (nfo property 08)
14:43:16 <krinn> it's the name you gave me
14:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "BIX B IX (K.Bay.Sts.B.) express bav 1 core 1874 1887"
14:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> this is really early in the game, or did you enable "vehicles never expire" again?
14:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the line above says "available between 1874 and 1887"
14:48:29 <krinn> ah yes vehicle never expire was back on
14:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i should make a warning "this set should be played with 'vehicles never expire OFF'"
14:50:35 <krinn> you autochange train on date ?
14:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> a few graphics change when visiting a depot
14:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> only repainting, no stats change
14:52:13 <krinn> push date to 1660 list of wagons is impressive
14:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i should remove some wagons if not playing with speed limit or axle weight limit
14:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the wagons are mostly untested
14:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> also the purchase prices
14:54:39 <krinn> and by that date, i get the default wagons too, so the list get big
14:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hm? default wagons should be disabled
14:55:34 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] 913 - Open wagon is not default one ?
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14:56:27 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] 1171 - Personenzugwagen (Doppelstockgliederzug) :P
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14:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no, open wagon is probably not the default.
14:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the default wagons are called "ore wagon", "coal wagon", etc.
14:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: shouldn't that be in english?
14:59:13 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, think so yes
15:00:04 <krinn> all others are in english (from the current list i see)
15:00:15 <krinn> and it means something in their name
15:00:24 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] 1151 - Accelerated-passenger car (reconstructed})
15:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> entire train is one wagon-set
15:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: that's probably a simple oversight
15:05:11 <tokai|noir> I remember riding those kind of trains as kid. Especially second floor was always fun :)
15:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> tokai|noir: searching for people who can draw :)
15:10:39 <tokai|noir> Eddi|zuHause: drawing is the easy part, finding time to draw the hard part :D
15:14:12 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I can draw straws, do I then qualify?
15:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: if i'm desperate enough... :p
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17:00:53 <Madis> I was away, now I can thank you Eddi, so thank you :)
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17:31:56 <LordAro> ok, my friendly Linux gurus. I am going to replace my HDD, and I about the best size of partitions (/, /home, ...) to use (for a 2TB drive)
17:32:34 * Rubidium would just go for the 1 partition solution
17:33:01 * __ln__ would go for the separate /home solution
17:33:21 <krinn> i always / /home & /boot
17:35:28 <Xaroth|Work> I always dump everything on /
17:36:26 <Xaroth|Work> that fs caused me more issues than any other
17:36:56 <gynter> And if you have problems with lvm then you should learn how to use it correctly :)
17:37:08 <gynter> also, noexec and nosuid to /tmp
17:37:27 <gynter> I also reccoment to encrypt all, except / and /boot obviously
17:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually have /, <windows>, /boot and /home
17:37:46 <Xaroth|Work> no, if i have problems with it it did something I didn't tell it to do
17:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have swap partitions
17:37:51 <LordAro> i've looked into lvm, but it looks scary
17:37:58 <Xaroth|Work> it's not -that- scary
17:38:09 <Xaroth|Work> it just has some loopholes
17:38:12 <Xaroth|Work> that can cause issues
17:38:22 <gynter> doesn't most distros use lvm by default already?
17:38:26 <krinn> i don't need a fancy FS that would make this or that, i need one that works and don't loose my datas for nothing
17:38:38 <Xaroth|Work> mostly as default option
17:38:41 <Xaroth|Work> but you usually get the choice
17:39:08 <gynter> dunno, haven't installed linux for a long time :D
17:39:13 <krinn> i always look at brtfs lovers with a "what the fuck" in my eyes
17:39:50 <Xaroth|Work> it gets extremely funny if you get them into a brtfs vs zfs discussion
17:39:55 <jankol> Got question, can't find answer in google/wiki. How can I disable train reversing on stations? There's no option in advanced options, in config there is only "reverse_at_signals = false". I've got 1.3.1 version running on ubuntu.
17:40:52 <krinn> jankol, trains never reverse at stations, they do at signal and end of line, if station is end of line...
17:41:20 <gynter> For worstation I'd use LMDE with Cinnamon and for server FreeBSD
17:41:45 <LordAro> i think i'll avoid lvm for now
17:41:54 <jankol> Well... I've built one that is not end of line, it's got a loop to ... I'll make a screenshot
17:41:58 <krinn> LordAro, if you don't need it, don't use it
17:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause> jankol: it might be filtered out, select "advanced settings" or "all settings" at the top
17:42:17 <LordAro> krinn: i don't know if i need it D:
17:42:28 <krinn> LordAro, then you know you don't need it
17:42:30 <Rubidium> LordAro: then you don't need it ;)
17:42:57 <gynter> I use lvm because of crypto :)
17:43:07 <gynter> and easier to resize partitions
17:43:13 <Rubidium> crypto is pointless anyhow, at least here
17:43:30 <LordAro> ok, so assuming fixed partition sizes, what sizes should i go for? (or, percentage)
17:43:31 <gynter> crypto is never pointless
17:43:33 <Xaroth|Work> I haven't found a single use for crypto on my machines
17:43:39 <Xaroth|Work> other than wasted cpu cycles
17:43:44 <LordAro> and actually, what particular partitions should i use?
17:43:55 <jankol> Eddi|zuHause: big thanx, didn't notice the filters in the advanced options ;-)
17:44:05 <krinn> i only see crypto good for laptop, if some random guys stole it, while people use crypto against cops, lol like if the guy won't be force to gave the crypto pass to them :)
17:44:11 <gynter> Xaroth|Work: depends what you hold on that computer, I have data which should never get to hands of common people (eg if someone stoles the laptop)
17:44:53 <gynter> krinn: they also need the certificate :P
17:45:00 <LordAro> Xaroth|Work, so you don't bother with separate /home, /swap etc? why?
17:45:04 <gynter> s/certificate/key/ (scumbag brain)
17:45:07 <krinn> gynter, they need nothing but you
17:45:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25626 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2013-07-24 17:45:08 UTC)
17:45:16 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:17 <DorpsGek> turkish - 4 changes by wakeup
17:45:19 <Rubidium> gynter: for some reason not giving the password to the cops when they suspect there's something on it gives you (generally) way more trouble (read: jail-ish time) than just giving the password
17:45:39 <gynter> They can't jail you for that
17:45:47 <gynter> you just tell that you don't remember and thats all
17:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: something is definitely wrong there...
17:45:55 <Xaroth|Work> obstruction of justice?
17:46:05 <Xaroth|Work> impeding with an ongoing investigation
17:46:15 <gynter> they have to prove that you remember for that
17:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it *used* to be that you cannot be forced to give up information that could be used against you
17:46:38 <gynter> still, too much preassure, i forogot, sry, shit happens
17:46:38 <Xaroth|Work> they only have to make it plausible that you can remember it
17:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (or your next of kin)
17:47:18 <gynter> Eddi|zuHause: depends on the country where you live :P
17:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> gynter: once upon a time it was in the definition of a "free" country, that they obey the basic human rights
17:48:11 <gynter> LordAro: I reccomend you to read
17:48:17 <gynter> there are lots of topics on the issue
17:48:23 <gynter> what partitions, how large etc
17:48:35 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's kinda the point. They can't quite force you to decrypt it, but if they ask and you reject you are immediately seen as suspect in the case
17:48:59 <Rubidium> except when you are already the suspect, then they cannot force you to decrypt it
17:49:06 <gynter> but still, they have to prove you guilty
17:49:06 <krinn> Rubidium, yeah the "oh nothing to hide but don't want us to look"
17:49:18 <LordAro> gynter: i have been, but it seems to be a 'whatever you think is best' sort of thing
17:49:22 <LordAro> hence i asked here :)
17:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes. it's the same as a "voluntary" DNA-test
17:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: like "we test all males between 20 and 40 in a 100km radius"
17:50:08 <krinn> they just try to stole your dna to avoid the huge test of all males
17:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and everyone who refuses the "voluntary" test, gets "special attention"
17:50:32 <krinn> yeah thx love to gives my dna away
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17:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the point is, you really *should* reject the test, because even if you know you are innocent, you could be related to the person they search
17:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and a DNA test will reveal that
17:54:08 <krinn> and it could me money (as they do all this with our money)
17:59:44 <krinn> who add project to devzone?
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18:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... need to mirror something along a diagonal, but i can't find a series of "easy" transformations that will get me there...
18:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> just a horizontal and verticall mirror will be a rotation, not a mirroring
18:58:09 <frosch123> mirroring has order 2 (or whatever you call it)
18:58:17 <frosch123> so you can only mirror once, no matter what
18:59:16 <frosch123> you are mirroing at a line in 2d space, right?
19:00:54 <frosch123> i can only mirror on hyper-surfaces
19:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i guess it's more complicated than a simple mirror. i have a rectangle (0:a)x(0:b) and the line (0,0)-(a,b), and want the points (0,b) and (a,0) mapped on each other, the other points likewise.
19:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> so it might be scale to square, mirror, scale back to rectangle
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19:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> scaling is bad. it screws everything up :/
19:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the theory was good, but the rescaling to original size has rounding problems
19:11:12 <frosch123> if you want to map (a,0) tro (0,b), then you do not mirror on the diagonal
19:12:47 <frosch123> so, do you want [0, a/b; b/a; 0] ?
19:15:39 <frosch123> i mean, there not many linear mappings, which map two specific points to each other (resp. an affin-linear one which maps 3 points to each other)
19:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the mapping is linear, and there are "enough" points that should map to each other. so yes, the formula is easy enough :)
19:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but, can i give a matrix transformation to GIMP?
19:21:26 <frosch123> scale it to smalles common multipel square then :p
19:24:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but the result is only sort-of-right
19:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause> GIMP has some weird scaling
19:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the scaling and the rotation are not exact enough
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19:41:35 <krinn> anyone to grant me a place @devzone ?
19:41:49 <V453000> that evil planetmaker
19:41:54 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: disable anti-aliasing or whatever
19:42:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not anti-aliasing, it's just inaccurate
19:42:18 <frosch123> use "colour from nearest" scaling
19:42:41 <frosch123> there is no inaccuarcy in scaling up by integer factors
19:42:57 <George> who else but planetmaker can access devzone server?
19:43:36 <George> It's not the set errors burt server errors
19:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: scaling up is ok, the scaling back down is the problem
19:44:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ^Spike^ messed around with stuff yesterday
19:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen Ammler in a while
19:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (that was for George)
19:45:50 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: get photoshop, CS2 is for free :P
19:47:28 <frosch123> V453000: why bother with the software, if the problem is on the chair?
19:47:55 <V453000> signup is terrible enough if you get quality software? :)
19:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: what do i need quality software for?
19:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i should just write a program for my transformation myself :/
19:49:49 <krinn> there's still the possibility to just drop making that transformation too
19:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i have something more complicated in the works :)
19:53:21 <krinn> and the wagon name in german looks longggg normal?
19:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> german words are statistically longer than english words, yes :)
19:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, yes. the wagons are longer than normal
19:54:28 <George> V453000: Have you read the download agreement?
19:54:30 <Eddi|zuHause> they are actually not, but they are made of 3 parts that appear longer
19:54:31 <George> Adobe has disabled the activation server for CS2 products, including Acrobat 7, because of a technical issue. These products were released more than seven years ago, do not run on many modern operating systems, and are no longer supported.
19:54:31 <George> Adobe strongly advises against running unsupported and outdated software. The serial numbers provided as a part of the download may only be used by customers who legitimately purchased CS2 or Acrobat 7 and need to maintain their current use of these products.
19:54:38 <krinn> ultra long yes, i'm not sure 2 will fit in a 5 tiles stations
19:55:25 <V453000> George: hm that mus be new
19:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: well you do record the length of each vehicle?
19:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 tile = 16 length units
19:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> most wagons are 12 or 13 length units
19:56:25 <Eddi|zuHause> some wagon sets are very long chains (like MUs and stuff)
19:56:56 <George> V453000: you mean prevously they offered to download CS2 for free without any restrctions?
19:57:18 <V453000> yes, with the keys you got
19:57:30 <V453000> and now they say the keys are only for those people who got them previously, I guess
19:57:39 <V453000> the agreement certainly wasnt there when this was released
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19:57:54 <George> There are keys, but you are not allowed to use them if you are not legal owner of CS2
19:58:07 <V453000> idk, it worked for me when I tried it before
19:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: even NEW adobe software is dangerously full of abusable bugs and loopholes. what makes you think i'm going to install _outdated_ versions?
19:58:25 <krinn> :) having it working doesn't make it legit
19:58:40 <George> You mean that you have carefully read the agreement and there was no restrictions?
19:58:54 <V453000> the new cloud is actually so bullshit that everybody uses cs6 or even portable versions now
19:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that wasn't the question
19:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose "cs6" is still maintained for security issues etc.
20:00:04 <V453000> idk what abusable bugs are you talking about
20:00:10 <V453000> cs2 still does work quite well
20:00:18 <krinn> lol i'm not sure "abode" and "maintenance" or "security" are compatible words
20:01:14 <krinn> only oracle can be seen as dolphin for the adobe crown
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20:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm staying away from adobe software
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20:29:41 <^Spike^> Eddi|zuHause what's borked?
20:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ^Spike^: George has a problem. not sure what
20:30:24 <^Spike^> already see pm is on it aswell....
20:30:47 <^Spike^> and well.. for Ammler i'll just leave that for now.... have to work with what i got...
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22:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "according to US government data, 92% of all prisoners in guantanamo were never Al Quaida fighters"
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22:48:24 <fjb> But by now some more of them are...
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continue to next day ⏵
