IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-05-27
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09:35:42 <GunChleoc> Is anybody with Wiki powers around?
09:36:12 <GunChleoc> I have a new language for the main page
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10:50:32 <GunChleoc> I can add Gaelic anywhere except for the main page, because if the vandalism safeguard
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15:52:37 <alluke> one iore mine procudes 783 tons without cheat
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15:54:16 <TinoDidriksen> Not so unusual. Seen several go over 1000.
16:04:44 <planetmaker> alluke, you can raise that. to 256*8 or 256*9. Depending on month
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16:27:27 <_aD> I've seen some with as much as 7 ore!
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17:46:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25298 /trunk/src/lang (10 files) (2013-05-27 17:45:55 UTC)
17:46:12 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:13 <DorpsGek> dutch - 4 changes by habell
17:46:14 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 3 changes by mrtux
17:46:15 <DorpsGek> english_US - 4 changes by Rubidium
17:46:16 <DorpsGek> finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
17:46:17 <DorpsGek> german - 3 changes by planetmaker
17:46:18 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:46:19 <DorpsGek> polish - 4 changes by nouwak
17:46:20 <DorpsGek> russian - 3 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:46:21 <DorpsGek> gaelic - 3 changes by GunChleoc
17:46:22 <DorpsGek> spanish - 4 changes by Terkhen
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18:30:40 <samu> i found an utility called process explorer and I'm exploring openttd.exe for fun
18:31:35 <samu> there is 9 threads open by openttd.exe as far as I can understand
18:41:35 * Zuu has sucessfully been able to return a harcoded value from ScriptObject::DoCommand in world gen by throwing the apporite thing. Now he only need to figure out how to get hold of the correct return value.
18:41:40 <samu> peak cpu usage 14.43% :o
18:42:51 <samu> hey Zuu, i was writing an excel table, you have many AIs
18:43:18 <samu> clueless plus is main one
18:44:27 <Zuu> PaxLink was once a possible AI to overtake CluelessPlus, but it became to complex so I decided to get back to Clueless and improve it.
18:45:17 <samu> CluelessPlus, IdleMore, PAXLink, StreetTraffic, TownCars, TutorialAI, TutorialShipAI
18:46:02 <samu> i saw PAXlink survive 100 years only once
18:46:07 <Zuu> and then add some libraries and GSes too. :-)
18:46:47 <Zuu> IIRC, my banas user account is #1 or #2 in total download count if you make a sum over all content that is associated with that account.
18:47:14 <samu> let me find cluelessplus statistics
18:47:55 <Zuu> Thought, I have taken over ownership of some of the original AI libraries such that the pathfinders due to fixing a small bug while others have made the main work there.
18:48:47 <samu> 0 errors, 9 alive, 1 negative profit
18:49:20 <Zuu> Assuming there was a though competition, that sounds good.
18:49:38 <samu> +/- CluelessPlus (v34): bankrupt, road vehicles, aircraft
18:49:53 <samu> so it bankrupted at some time then restarted and was fine
18:50:08 <Zuu> I have not really been able to fully stabilize it after adding aircraft to it. In non-air mode it is better to not get into bad economic situations.
18:50:10 <samu> positive income on the second try most likely
18:50:48 <samu> Default game settings 1.3.0, AI profile Medium, Speed Fast + Default AI settings + 512x512 Toy-Land Original, Terrain Flat, Sea Low, Rivers Few, Seed 1111111111
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18:52:53 <samu> it's good at repairing routes
18:52:53 <Zuu> samu: Thanks. If you have any report that you expect me to have a look at, its best placed in the forum as it could take some months until I get around to have a look on it unless it is urgent.
18:53:16 <samu> terron is good at destroying routes on the other hand
18:53:40 <samu> one of these ruins its own routes
18:54:54 <Zuu> CluelessPlus has a specialized pathfinder class (which is actually part of SuperLib and available to anyone) that runs over existing roads to detect broken connections. It runs more frequent on lines that make a loss.
18:55:28 <Zuu> It also has code that trigger on road vehicle crashes and tries to replace rail crossings with a bridge.
18:55:44 <samu> oh i haven't noticed that one
18:56:24 <samu> i have noticed missing bridges from either terron or dictator
18:56:31 <samu> it is a bridge over river
18:57:43 <samu> some other AI also tries to use rivers as a path for ships
18:58:05 <samu> or lakes connected to rivers
18:58:40 <samu> hmm nah, that one errors too often
18:58:53 <samu> it was one of the others who use ships
18:59:19 <samu> don't remember, I have to try again
18:59:59 <samu> NoCAB, when it finds some ships lost
19:00:41 <samu> erm,, how to explain hmm
19:00:51 <samu> it starts off with a route
19:01:06 <samu> suddenly that route gets broke with lost ships
19:01:20 <samu> it either adds more ships to that route, or builds more of the same route
19:01:45 <samu> so, it's quite easy to find 100+ lost ships for NoCAB
19:03:18 <samu> Otvi is only successful with passenger ships
19:03:58 <samu> the other cargo ships have always a dock that doesn't get the cargo, out of range
19:04:15 <samu> not withing range to get the cargo
19:04:50 <samu> I think it could have been Trans
19:05:18 <samu> brb, let me set up a game with Trans
19:24:46 <samu> it was one of those rare errors
19:25:02 <samu> don't think i can make it happen anytime soon
19:25:36 <samu> it was using a dock on a coast towards a lake
19:25:54 <samu> that lake was connected to a river
19:26:50 <V453000> try having thousands of trains
19:26:54 <V453000> cpu usage easily 100% of one core
19:27:32 <samu> and I could tell it was going to be passengers ship
19:27:39 <samu> but it errored out before that
19:27:49 <samu> so, a ship AI that does passengers
19:30:09 <samu> savegame is made with newer version :(
19:35:01 <samu> there is a problem with Trans and ships anyway
19:35:22 <samu> but I can't make it do what I described
19:36:02 <samu> - waterconnector.nut error: the index 'AllowTryStation' does not exist
19:38:54 <samu> ah no, i'm not trying nightly, sorry
19:41:55 <glx> index is the general name for functions, variables, ...
19:42:11 <Alberth> usually a number pointing to an entry in some sequence
19:47:28 <samu> [Water Connector] Destination not found
19:48:03 <samu> [water Connector] Selected source: Morlaix
19:48:49 <samu> [Morlaix] have 10000 [true] -> Good Job ^_^
19:49:26 <samu> [Morlaix] 0 station tiles found
19:49:44 <samu> [Morlaix] Allowed to try to build station
19:51:06 <Alberth> it just reports that it cannot find the thing with that name
19:51:24 <Alberth> what's there to decipher?
19:52:00 <samu> there is no dock at Morlaix town
19:52:33 <Alberth> AllowTryStation <-- it was looking a thing with that name :p
19:52:54 <Alberth> judging by the name, it didn't reach the point of having built anything
19:54:14 <samu> Trans isn't even on Morlaix local authority details
19:55:12 <Alberth> you probably need to build a station first :p
19:59:27 <samu> lol, it refits passengers ships to passengers and says good job
20:05:15 <samu> :p there are other messages Allowed to try to build station before
20:06:36 <Alberth> it can be something as simple as a typo in the name, or a wrong case of one letter or so
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20:17:40 <samu> I have another question - What is a Page Fault? There's 464.599 and always increasing page faults
20:18:02 <TinoDidriksen> It's a cache miss.
20:18:18 <TinoDidriksen> Nothing to care about.
20:19:55 <samu> Private Bytes - System Commin 170.2 MB
20:22:27 <samu> do you know what these threads do?
20:26:35 <samu> openttd.exe+0x32464, openttd.exe+0x324654, wdmaud.drv!widMessage+0x4940, openttd.exe+0x227518, openttd.exe+0x227094, ntdll.dll!RtlValidateHeap+0x170, WINMM.dll+0x1010, ntdll.dll!TplsTimerSet+0x7c0+MMDevAPI.DLL|Ordinal5+0x1274
20:27:24 <samu> oops, that's a comma there
20:27:43 <samu> openttd.exe+0x32464, openttd.exe+0x324654, wdmaud.drv!widMessage+0x4940, openttd.exe+0x227518, openttd.exe+0x227094, ntdll.dll!RtlValidateHeap+0x170, WINMM.dll+0x1010, ntdll.dll!TplsTimerSet+0x7c0, MMDevAPI.DLL!Ordinal5+0x1274
20:28:57 <Zuu> samu: the english wording of page fault is farily harmless. The swedish translation is easy to mistake for a hardware error if you do not know what it is. :-)
20:30:04 <samu> those are memory addresses?
20:30:42 <samu> i have another program with a lot of page faults
20:31:13 <Alberth> they are offsets in program data
20:31:30 <TinoDidriksen> A page fault is simply a cache miss when accessing memory that's been swapped out.
20:31:53 <glx> samu: main thread and stuff created by windows like midi, sound, ...
20:32:32 <Supercheese> Aww, I thought a page fault was talking about book tectonics ;)
20:32:39 <samu> oh, the midi one insterests me
20:32:54 <samu> must find the thing who blocks sound to the whole system
20:33:18 <Alberth> Supercheese: these are electronic pages :)
20:33:37 <Supercheese> Alberth: iTectonics, then? :P
20:34:03 <Alberth> apple would claim it's theirs probably
20:36:19 <samu> bah, sorry I closed ie by mistake
20:38:14 <Zuu> samu: Your quit message did fit very well the discussion.
20:38:38 <samu> what was my quit message?
20:38:42 <Zuu> * samu has quit (Quit: Page closed)
20:46:17 <samu> is using 2.904.264 K memory
20:48:25 <samu> svchost.exe > dllhost.exe > something windows photo viewer.exe
20:50:39 <samu> it is under the column Working Set
20:50:52 <Zuu> But yes, loading eg. a giant screenshot from OpenTTD can use a lot of memory. :-)
20:53:36 <frosch123> can you digital camera handle 500 megapixels?
20:53:53 <samu> it's a screenshot from openttd
20:53:54 <Alberth> 537,000,000 pixels x 4 bytes RGB = 2GB
20:54:37 <samu> closed image viewer, it freed up 2.8 GB ram
20:55:06 <samu> your png files are a trap
20:55:21 <Alberth> it's called giant for a reason :p
20:55:35 <frosch123> it's an educational trap
20:55:48 <glx> most tools work on uncompressed data
20:57:52 <samu> i dont have many jpgs around
21:01:39 <samu> largest working set now is THXAudio.exe
21:02:29 <Alberth> the point of having memory is to use it :)
21:03:00 <samu> openttd.exe is further down the list with 50.332K
21:03:58 <samu> I wanted more than 8 GB RAM
21:04:16 <samu> wanted 32 GB or so, to create a RAMDrive
21:06:48 <samu> and would install something big on it
21:09:33 <samu> 20.925 ficheiros, 257 pastas
21:09:52 <samu> 20.925 files, 257 folders for Need for Speed World
21:12:40 <Alberth> using it as disk cache is much more useful imho
21:13:58 <juzza1> waiting for the stuff to fill in after a reboot might get a little annoying
21:14:46 <Alberth> and you don't need to copy data onto the RAM disk first :p
21:14:58 <samu> yes, i agree, tested a 4 GB RAMDrive, took 1 more minute to boot and 1 more to shutdown
21:15:17 <samu> sometimes it was annoying
21:16:11 <samu> then some of the patches for the game said insufficient space... .(
21:17:12 <samu> tried to look about super fetch
21:17:28 <samu> all I find is it's automated
21:20:26 <Zuu> Now with SSDss, I don't wory about disk speed.
21:21:45 <Alberth> just never shutdown :p
21:23:15 <samu> I've been more interested in ssds before
21:24:29 <samu> nowadays I rather find it's worth waiting for better prices
21:24:56 <samu> they're always getting way cheaper than last year
21:25:10 <samu> so, I wait until it's no longer the case
21:25:32 <Alberth> they'll continue to decline :p
21:25:34 <samu> it's too tempting to buy one
21:25:59 <samu> only to find out they were overly expensive next year
21:32:48 <samu> more ram vs. 2nd hdd vs. ssd
21:34:21 <juzza1> 4th option: do nothing and save money
21:35:47 <samu> the anti-virus is great at slowing my comp to a crawl
21:38:47 <samu> wanted to do video recording
21:39:14 <samu> can't do everything at the same time
21:42:12 <samu> mse is light, discrete, but what I find is... it's light, until it finds zip files or iso images
21:42:16 <FLHerne> samu: With the amount of tweaking you seem to do, why haven't you switched to Linux yet? :P
21:43:18 <samu> linux eh... I have bad experiences with it
21:43:40 <samu> it boots on live cd, but once installed it doesn't boot
21:44:02 <NGC3982> Where does it not boot (yes, that is a serious question)?
21:44:18 <NGC3982> I had a fair amount of poop with GRUB while exploring Linux for the first times.
21:44:27 <samu> it was some years ago, it was stuck on 'starting ubuntu"
21:44:39 <samu> with a orange bar going one way to another
21:44:39 <NGC3982> Well, never mind me then.
21:46:03 <samu> tried red hat way before
21:46:42 <samu> didn't even know how to get to a floppy disk
21:59:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25299 /trunk/src (goal_base.h script/api/game_changelog.hpp) (2013-05-27 21:59:11 UTC)
21:59:18 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Allow more concurrent goals in a game
22:03:14 <samu> how do i brute force a farm to increase production?
22:03:44 <samu> it produces 189 grain a month, but only 12 livestock a month, how do I balance it?
22:06:32 <NGC3982> Since the base value is lower for livestock than grain, you will have to balance cargo handling to increase livestock before grain.
22:06:56 <NGC3982> You should have as few goods waiting as possible, and leave lesser gaps between pickups.
22:07:16 <V453000> not like you need to balance it at all
22:08:41 <samu> could smart advertising campaign affect production per month?
22:08:58 <Zuu> Get a statue if you don't have one yet
22:09:04 <samu> it's a farm close to a town
22:09:06 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
22:09:18 <Zuu> Get a statue in that town.
22:09:28 <Zuu> That boosts your station rating by 10% permanently.
22:10:33 <Supercheese> You could just use the cheat menu, adjust production :P
22:10:48 <samu> if I keep buying these advertising campaigns, will it speed up?
22:10:58 <samu> i can't cheat on multiplayer
22:11:56 <samu> ah no, i dont want to cheat
22:12:14 <NGC3982> Me neither. I just want to join you. :>
22:32:34 <samu> scrolling with max zoom out
22:34:45 <samu> it's the typical behaviour for this cpu for single-thread applications
22:41:22 <V453000> almost everything is single threaded
22:42:33 <samu> another question, the land generator is single, or multi?
22:43:01 <samu> bah why do I ask, I can test it
22:46:21 <samu> the typical 100% cpu use is 3300/3600 MHz
22:47:21 <Zuu> samu: we can add threads that do useless stuff and put more load on your cpu, but that does't do any help :-p
22:48:03 <planetmaker> that's the multiplayer capability: you can start as many clients as you have cores (or maybe one less)
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22:48:54 <samu> land generating 2048x2048 x8
22:50:12 <Zuu> Starting a game with 64000 goals created in the world gen takes some time. :-)
22:50:42 <Zuu> Thaksfully much faster than if they would have been created after world gen. :-)
22:53:40 <samu> with all OpenTTDs generatin
22:54:05 * Zuu gives samu a book about C++ to do something more creative with his time than watching his CPU
22:56:22 <Zuu> Don't be sad. Programming is both fun and useful.
22:58:05 <Zuu> Having a good CPU is something you will have use for when compiling programs. :-)
22:59:39 <V453000> I already learned never to compile NUTS on my notebook ever again
23:00:21 <glx> compiling on a raspberry pi is not a good idea either
23:04:50 <samu> can AIs think with multiple threads?
23:22:45 <samu> what plays midi for openttd?
23:24:04 <samu> it's windows media player?
23:24:10 <samu> or something windows picks up?
23:34:35 <samu> there's 3 more thread counts when playing a midi
23:35:24 *** ImNotTouchingIt has joined #openttd
23:36:17 <glx> your problems happens with both win32 and dmusic ?
23:36:17 <ImNotTouchingIt> I was just wondering. I work in a School and as a Business Management Excercise for the students I suggested to the teacher that we have a OpenTTD competition where the students could try and make as much money as possible (or not) building up a company.
23:36:30 <ImNotTouchingIt> I was wondering how you would go about setting up a server for such things.
23:37:08 <ImNotTouchingIt> I mean I have a physical server I can use but as for the OpenTTD Server Software I don't know much about that.
23:38:40 <samu> i stopped playing midi, count down to 10
23:38:54 <samu> shouldn't it go to thread count 9?
23:40:25 <samu> this one remained: WINMM.dll!timeEndPeriod+0xe8
23:41:10 <glx> that's windows doing its magic
23:42:12 <samu> i don't know, there were 9
23:42:21 <samu> started playing a midi, went up to 12
23:42:27 <samu> stopped playing midi, down to 10
23:42:45 <glx> openttd didn't start these threads
23:43:41 <samu> and the others are named...
23:44:28 <samu> WINMM.dll!mmTaskCreate+0x114
23:45:06 <samu> msvcrt.dll!ftime64_s+0x180 - this one is using 0.05% cpu
23:49:25 <glx> openttd has 4 threads on its own: main thread, sound thread,midi thread and paint window thread
23:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ImNotTouchingIt: you can start a server through the multiplayer GUI. if it's on a LAN, you probably don't have to do anything special, if it should be routed through the internet, you need to open the ports in the firewall/router
23:49:37 <glx> all others are created by windows
23:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> ImNotTouchingIt: or you can start a "dedicated" server with running "openttd -D" (must be a capital "D", not a "d", then you have only a console, no GUI
23:51:51 <Eddi|zuHause> ImNotTouchingIt: and then it gets really complicated if you want to run more than one server :p
23:55:06 <samu> sometimes i wish I could understand all this
23:55:22 <samu> ntoskrnl.exe!KeWaitForMultipleObjects+0xc0a
23:55:27 <samu> ntoskrnl.exe!KeWaitForMultipleObjects+0xc0a
23:55:42 <samu> ntoskrnl.exe!KeAcquireSpinLockAtDpcLevel+0x732
23:55:58 <samu> ntoskrnl.exe!KeDelayExecutionThread+0x186
23:56:27 <samu> ntoskrnl.exe!NtWaitForSingleObject+0x16e
23:56:42 <samu> ntoskrnl.exe!KeSynchronizeExecution+0x3a23
23:57:06 <samu> these are a list of stacks
23:59:07 <samu> this one is 14 stacks in a list
23:59:34 <samu> that other is 9, and the other is 11
continue to next day ⏵
