IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-04-20
⏴ go to previous day
00:16:00 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
00:46:57 *** DarkAceZ has joined #openttd
00:47:44 *** DarkAceZ has joined #openttd
02:00:17 *** Belugas has joined #openttd
02:00:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas
04:00:26 *** chester_ has joined #openttd
04:03:14 *** Tom_Soft has joined #openttd
04:38:32 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
06:01:48 <csc> well was going to say hello but yeah..
07:10:48 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
07:13:14 <dimes> i did some searching but couldnt find the answer i wanted
07:13:47 *** Progman has joined #openttd
07:13:54 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:21:16 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
07:37:25 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
07:44:05 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
08:01:25 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
08:37:51 <cSc> I wonder how the palm pre handled OpenTTD
08:37:54 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
08:37:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
08:40:02 <cSc> i quite fail at it, but for some reason i can't seem to stop playing openttd after doing the tutorial
08:40:39 <Alberth> that's a known shortcoming of the game, it's too addictive :)
08:40:49 <Alberth> it will wear off in a couple of years :D
08:41:28 <cSc> even the outdated touchpad version is still addictive, albeit somewhat unplayable
08:43:37 <cSc> Alberth, was I seeing incorrectly or did 'Sluthill' make it into the random town namefile?
08:45:02 <Alberth> random town names are just fragments that get concatenated, sometmes to funny and weird combinations
08:45:28 <Alberth> there are also townname grfs that have a simple list of names
08:47:20 <Alberth> I don't even know what the default game actually does with its names
08:47:35 <Alberth> I guess it's a list of fragments of english town names
08:47:51 <cSc> yeah i think it was 1.1.2 or whichever is in ubuntu 12.10
08:48:08 <cSc> but it generated 'New Sluthill' or something like that. Whichever it was, it had sluthill in it
08:48:58 <Alberth> town name generation has not changed for years
08:50:03 <Alberth> I remember seeing some posts about weird town names, but they are mostly just random posts
08:53:25 <cSc> Is it possible to use some sort of AI script to manage some things?
08:54:03 <Alberth> not an AI, an AI is like a normal player, but computer controlled
08:54:32 <Alberth> you may want to look at game scripts, which exist to "rule" the world for all players
08:55:01 <cSc> dont see any available ones to do what im talking about
08:55:21 <Alberth> you mean a script to help you?
08:55:42 <Alberth> no, those don't exist to keep the playing field level in multi-player games
08:56:06 <Alberth> what kind of problem do you have?
08:56:29 <cSc> lack of asian micromanagement skills
08:56:30 <Alberth> openttd has lots of somewhat hidden features to make your life easier
08:58:34 <cSc> just seems like there's way too much to manage with multiple towns
08:59:06 <cSc> also saw a 'repair vehicles' feature but couldn't figure out how to use it
08:59:38 <Alberth> yes, that one is a bit tricky :)
09:02:27 <cSc> my road transportation got too complicated and failed due to oldness
09:02:40 <cSc> but was apparently profitable
09:03:14 <Alberth> ie buy a new instance of the same model = renew, buy a new instance of a different model = replace
09:03:34 <juzza1> how long is one engine tick in OTTD? is it the same as regular tick (30ms)?
09:03:52 <Alberth> juzza1: It's in the FAQ somewhere
09:04:29 <Alberth> 'length of a day' or so
09:05:23 <juzza1> yeah thats the regular tick, but there is also a reference to an "engine tick" in the sound effect callbacks
09:05:36 <juzza1> and i didnt find any info in the faq about engine tick
09:11:27 <cSc> and i just figured out possibly the most useful feature in the game
09:21:59 <cSc> trying not to hemorrhage cash and attack subsidies is quite hard =\
09:22:05 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
09:23:14 <LordAro> (yes, i read the logs)
09:28:55 <cSc> any strategies for not overwhelming yourself with the massive micromanagement tasks in openttd?
09:29:36 <Alberth> it's not worth the trouble, you make enough money without micro managing everything
09:30:52 <LordAro> you realise you won't highlight me if you put a space between the words, right? :P
09:30:55 <Wolf01> just buy 2 airports on distant cities and purchase some airplanes... you could then enjoy building other things and try out features, until a plane crash :P
09:31:27 <LordAro> Surely you should build 3 airports then? :)
09:31:43 <cSc> Wolf01, i found that road vehicles are more profitable in the long run
09:31:58 <cSc> airports tend to fail after three years
09:32:18 <LordAro> 9+ years of other poeple playing would suggest otherwise
09:32:25 <cSc> while the road vehicle transport lasted longer than the vehicles as terms of profitability
09:32:55 <Wolf01> I could purchase an entire new train for every delivery of an aircraft after just 6 months of game
09:33:02 <Alberth> but I assume you read it at your convenience, no need to draw your attention to it
09:33:28 <cSc> Wolf01, i found the trains to be unreliable :(
09:33:37 <cSc> and difficult to create properly
09:33:41 <Wolf01> but trains are the fun part :D
09:33:58 <Alberth> cSc: build more depots :)
09:34:02 <Wolf01> massive stations and 8 way junctions
09:34:16 <Alberth> or cheat by turning off breakdowns :(
09:34:38 <cSc> yeah the breakdowns was what hit profitability
09:34:40 <cSc> in the beginning i see that road transit is key
09:34:56 <cSc> atleast for a basic reliable income long term
09:35:09 <Alberth> cSc: with breakdowns enabled, buying reliable engines is THE key
09:35:36 <Alberth> nope, trains are way more profitable than trucks
09:35:57 <cSc> reliable and sustainable? not in the beginning imo
09:35:57 <Wolf01> I don't care about my trains, some of them make something like 1M of loss a year, and the next year they make 10M income, just because the route is long and they take more than one year to deliver and come back
09:36:39 <cSc> im making about 30k sustained from my road transit
09:36:43 <Wolf01> I tried to fix it, ad you well know it :(
09:36:57 <cSc> just from one mail route and four public transit systems
09:37:32 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps you carried the wrong cargo?
09:37:48 *** ntoskrnl has joined #openttd
09:38:39 <cSc> linked every industry available on the map
09:38:57 <Wolf01> don't use trains for mail/passenger service until you have big cities, build a route between a coal mine and a power plant which are at least at "one screen" of distance, then you will see how much trains are profitable ;)
09:39:12 <cSc> but multiple raillines i found tedious to create
09:39:21 <cSc> not to mention require massive space
09:39:55 <cSc> ...that...was not covered in the tutorial
09:40:58 <cSc> the tutorial in reference is the scenario available via the online content
09:43:48 <Alberth> and just use one way path signals for everything
09:44:10 <cSc> as if managing a road transit system was hard enough
09:44:17 * cSc glares at the wiki article
09:44:36 <Alberth> you have to do something for the next three years :p
09:45:22 <Alberth> at the bottom of that Signals page, there are a few other tutorials that several people consider very good
09:46:01 <Alberth> but often they try to explain all signal types, while imho, for starting you should just stick to one.
09:47:33 <cSc> so basically just go with an outbound/inbound track system
09:47:44 <Alberth> unfortunately, much of the wiki is for intermediate to advanced, there is little material for beginners
09:49:22 <Alberth> if you post a save game, and ask for help, you will get feedback on things you can change or improve
09:49:25 <cSc> hence why i played openttd and was like "...screw this."
09:50:10 <Alberth> alternatively, look at what other people do in the scenario and savegame section of the forum
09:50:34 <cSc> im just doing new and random
09:50:41 <cSc> but this time im not using fast forward
09:50:47 <LordAro> probably most people who play OTTD now used to play Transport Tycoon, back in the day
09:50:58 <cSc> LordAro, never played it. ;p
09:51:06 <Alberth> one problem is that most people here fall in the "advanced category", which makes it hard to make material that is understandable by new users
09:51:10 <LordAro> i had guessed as much :P
09:51:34 <Alberth> trying random things is a good way to discover how it works
09:51:58 <cSc> while you were playing the original transport tycoon
09:52:15 <cSc> i was probably having a blast in simant
09:52:47 * LordAro has not heard of simant
09:58:54 <Alberth> never played it, it looked too much like simcity :)
09:59:05 <LordAro> thanks for doing the research for me :)
10:00:29 <LordAro> hmm, y'know, i think i might actually have heard of that
10:04:14 <Wolf01> anyone playing with minecraft 13w16a? it's me or skeletons disappeared from the game? (playing on normal)
10:05:59 <LordAro> Wolf01: i have not played it personally, but i have not seen any reports of that being the case
10:06:11 <cSc> Alberth, its an interesting game to say the least. Simant that is
10:07:02 <LordAro> minecraft's fairly interesting too :)
10:07:30 <Alberth> if only one could get paid to play games all day :p
10:07:40 <cSc> runs like crap on this laptop though
10:16:00 *** ZxBiohazardZx has joined #openttd
10:19:53 <cSc> Alberth, curious, what are the most notable features between 1.2 and 1.3?
10:19:59 <cSc> if you're bored enough to enumerate
10:20:03 <Wolf01> oh, a skeleton, finally
10:20:54 <cSc> Wolf01, you do know how entities work in minecraft, right? if the maximum available number of entities is spawned, it will not spawn new ones until the others despawn
10:21:05 <cSc> you could end up with 30 creepers
10:21:22 <LordAro> Wolf01: you probably just got (un)lucky
10:23:17 <cSc> LordAro, in other words, nothing but bugfixes and features i probably will never find :P?
10:23:33 <Wolf01> I think this is related to the new "region difficulty" changes, usually I can't exit from my house at night because of skeletons (last game I found also 2 spider jockeys at once), this time there are 3 or 4 zombies, 2 creepers, one spider, and I'm playing for 2 hours so far
10:24:11 <Alberth> I never play with stables, so I don't really know
10:24:34 <cSc> Alberth, thats where i got the current build from
10:24:48 <cSc> haven't even changed their countdown page yet
10:25:04 <cSc> and iirc Raging Racehorse is out in a few weeks
10:25:17 <cSc> or whatever animal they've decided on
10:25:39 <Alberth> ubuntu is based on debian, and debian is not a distribution using bleeding edge software
10:27:44 <cSc> Rubidium, based on their repository
10:28:06 <cSc> whenever i find that something is outdated i google the distro and version in question
10:28:14 <cSc> the next version of *buntu will have 1.3 in the repos
10:28:43 <Rubidium> there is a wishlist bug to update to 1.3.0, but that's arguably not going to happen
10:28:53 <cSc> could've sworn it said 1.3
10:29:06 <cSc> but then again i was confused with revision numbers
10:29:31 <Rubidium> but then... Ubuntu is weird; an AI is trunk of OpenTTD?!?
10:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> HOW DARE YOU! YOU HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR RELEASE SCHEDULE TO FIT UBUNTU'S DEADLINES
10:30:15 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 3 weeks should be more than enough to package something
10:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> not if it's already on freeze :)
10:30:44 <Rubidium> also, April fits very well with the .10 cycles
10:32:23 <cSc> really wish the webos port was updated :(
10:32:38 <Rubidium> mid june they'll stop importing stuff from Debian, which'd be the first or second bugfix releas of a stable cycle which is arguably better than the first one
10:33:24 <cSc> i could probably build it myself
10:33:36 <cSc> too damn lazy and not enough space for the wdk
10:55:49 *** Ristovski has joined #openttd
11:03:56 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
11:23:02 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
11:39:05 <Wolf01> I called the skeletons, eh...
11:56:00 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
12:30:17 *** ZxBiohazardZx has left #openttd
12:41:18 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
13:33:28 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd
13:42:57 *** Brokkoli has joined #openttd
14:11:51 *** RavingManiac has joined #openttd
14:49:44 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
14:54:17 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
14:54:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
15:06:10 *** ZxBiohazardZx has joined #openttd
15:06:27 *** ZxBiohazardZx has left #openttd
15:37:43 *** RavingManiac has joined #openttd
15:51:20 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
16:02:04 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
16:09:34 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
16:13:27 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
16:15:34 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
16:28:31 *** Pensacola has joined #openttd
16:28:48 *** goodger has joined #openttd
16:31:37 *** Lord_Aro has joined #openttd
16:36:14 *** Tom_Soft has joined #openttd
16:44:26 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
16:44:56 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd
16:51:27 *** Lord_Aro is now known as LordAro
16:54:57 *** Lord_Aro has joined #openttd
16:55:25 *** LordAro is now known as Guest2913
16:55:25 *** Lord_Aro is now known as LordAro
16:57:30 *** RavingManiac has joined #openttd
17:15:41 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
17:21:39 *** HellTiger has joined #openttd
17:28:49 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
18:43:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
18:52:58 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
18:54:46 *** Lord_Aro has joined #openttd
18:59:47 *** tycoondemon2 has joined #openttd
19:17:31 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
19:27:44 <cSc> road system still chugging, single train profit died within 5 years
19:33:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
19:34:01 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
19:54:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:56:12 * andythenorth is back on a 5400rpm spinning drive after 12 months of SSD
19:56:24 <andythenorth> it's like getting into economy class after club class :(
19:57:34 <cSc> andythenorth, failed on you?
19:58:00 <Rubidium> andythenorth: join TB's club
19:58:01 <andythenorth> bought a new one, stupid mac won't see it
19:58:05 <cSc> andythenorth, seen hybrids yet?
19:58:17 <andythenorth> I expected it to fail at some point
19:59:06 <glx> failure is not progressive on SSD ?
19:59:30 <andythenorth> in a disk test, it will now only do sequential read or write around 2MB/s
19:59:37 <andythenorth> my spinning drive does about 40MB/s
19:59:48 <andythenorth> but....stupidly it will still do 1GB/s random read / write
20:00:14 <andythenorth> assuming it doesn't lie
20:03:29 *** tycoondemon2 has joined #openttd
20:09:18 <cSc> andythenorth, look into a hybrid next time.
20:09:54 <andythenorth> Rubidium: it's a game
20:09:59 <andythenorth> needs some work though
20:10:15 <Rubidium> sounds like a boring thing
20:10:17 <andythenorth> strictly o/t here though
20:10:35 <andythenorth> just some dumb train sim
20:10:55 <Rubidium> hope it's not better than simsig
20:17:12 <cSc> i heard it sucked more than truck simulator 2013
20:19:23 <Supercheese> SimSig? is that a police training program or something? :P
20:20:36 <andythenorth> are forums gone away?
20:21:08 <cSc> the game sucked so bad that EA came and joined the forums. Everyone left.
20:21:17 <Rubidium> andythenorth: it's not away or awry for me
20:40:12 *** Progman has joined #openttd
20:46:08 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
21:47:41 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
23:24:04 <Supercheese> Any vehicle variables to detect whether the vehicle is above or below the snowline?
23:25:35 <Supercheese> Or, roughly equivalently, a variable that reports vehicle height (for non-aircraft)?
23:26:19 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
23:27:43 <Supercheese> Vehicle array offset 1E claims to store "Z location (altitude)"
23:42:59 <Supercheese> Works as expected, that variable (divided by 8) seems to report vehicle height
23:43:11 <Supercheese> Why 8) is an emoticon is beyond me
23:49:08 <planetmaker> I would expect it to report differently in grf v7 and grf v8
23:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicles can have sub-height-positions
23:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause> thus i don't think this one was changed in grfv8
23:56:07 <Supercheese> Yeah, sub-heights would be useful in some instances I suppose
23:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i think some russian (bus?) set shows sloped vehicles
continue to next day ⏵