IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-11-24
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01:45:36 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: that guy has a graphics problem, was asking about it in the other channel
01:45:46 <supermop> sounds like a problem with his card
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01:47:14 <ChileStuff> Guess I left too soon eddi
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11:00:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
11:27:37 <planetmaker> hello Alberth :-)
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11:45:42 <MNIM> my depots are bottlenecking.
11:55:23 <Flygon> I recommend multiple depots and lines
11:55:35 <Flygon> A bit like how stables/depots work irl
11:56:00 <Flygon> Basically, long multiple tracks
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12:56:07 <MNIM> I had two depots and waiting lines in and out for each in each direction, and a quad mainline passing by them
12:56:40 <MNIM> now there's three depots with waiting lines.
12:56:57 <MNIM> so now in both directions that piece of track is 10 wide.
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13:47:53 <Flygon> MNIM, can you show me what you mean?
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15:27:46 <MNIM> Flygon: wait a sec, not sure if I still have a save from before
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15:40:09 <Sturmi> you could build one depot per waiting bay
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15:48:02 <ChileStuff> Any functionally cognitive denizens available?
15:50:37 <ChileStuff> I have an odd video bug I could use help with
15:51:38 <ChileStuff> colors go all pastel and rainbow on me and looks somewhat pixelated ... no w7
15:52:10 <frosch123> disable desktop slideshow (or whatever it is called)
15:52:15 <ChileStuff> It also does it very briefly when loading, just a flash
15:52:21 <frosch123> or go to openttd.cfg and set fullscreen_bpp to 32 or something like that
15:52:38 <Rubidium> i.e. what is documented in known-bugs.txt
15:53:38 <frosch123> told him we are only bots :p
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17:11:59 * peter1138 ponders ... playing ...
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18:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24761 /trunk/src/lang (german.txt lithuanian.txt) (2012-11-24 18:45:16 UTC)
18:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:26 <DorpsGek> german - 2 changes by planetmaker
18:45:27 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 48 changes by Stabilitronas
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19:19:06 <andythenorth> I'll try again later, maybe it will be then
19:23:12 <Alberth> hmm, bad diff; basically s/ {}/{}/ and 't' of supplies -> crates
19:25:46 <andythenorth> might as well ;)
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19:55:55 <andythenorth> any forum stuff?
19:57:26 <Alberth> yeah, I am wondering what is happening; perhaps everybody is buying xmas stuff?
19:58:16 <andythenorth> some kind of online sales or something this weekend
20:00:13 <andythenorth> Alberth: seen the regions stuff from fr*sch123
20:02:45 <Alberth> so the whole world is online shopping?
20:05:42 <andythenorth> I have everything I need and everything I want :P
20:05:51 <andythenorth> or at least that I can buy easily :P
20:06:20 <andythenorth> oh, perhaps they're buying for other people :o
20:07:39 <Alberth> the only thing I bought today was a bit of electricity, some heat, and some Internet bandwidth :)
20:08:43 <Alberth> I tried playing FIRS today, but I got annoyed at the problems of finding cargo connections
20:09:25 <Alberth> someone should extend the industry chain window with a cargo to select from
20:20:38 <frosch123> yeah, you always have to find a industry first, which procudes stuff :p
20:23:14 <Alberth> would "FS#3799 - Would be nice to have a way to get cargo acceptance/production for a station" be useful to add to the TODO list?
20:24:59 <frosch123> looks like half of it was done
20:25:11 <frosch123> Yexo wanted to have a thought about the other one :p
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20:26:05 <frosch123> ah, we do not have any flag currently at stations whether cargo is supplied
20:26:38 <frosch123> oh, i guess what the issue is...
20:26:43 <frosch123> what should it actually return?
20:27:04 <frosch123> the cargo that is currently produced? or the cargo that could be produced if the industries would be serviced with input?
20:27:17 <Alberth> in my view, the set of cargoes also displayed by the station picker window
20:27:39 <frosch123> does not sound useful at all to me
20:27:56 <frosch123> you want to know whether a specific industry is in the catchment area
20:28:26 <frosch123> so ais would rather have a function with industry id and then figure out a station location
20:28:28 <Alberth> you don't want to know whether you can get/deliver cargo X ?
20:28:44 <frosch123> why would an ai want to know whether some random industry (which produces nothing) is in range?
20:29:02 <frosch123> delivery is fine, but we already have such a function
20:29:24 <frosch123> and it returns whether cargo _is_ currently accepted (i.e. considering stockpiles denying it)
20:29:28 <andythenorth> Alberth: the industry chain window has that feature :P
20:29:31 <frosch123> but for production this makes no sense
20:29:46 <frosch123> also players it makes no sense
20:30:07 <frosch123> players want to see which industries they cover, the "supplies" display is only a rough approximation of that
20:30:28 <frosch123> we should rather highlight the industry tiles when dragging the station area over them
20:30:52 <frosch123> ^^ we could put that on the todo list :p
20:32:08 <Alberth> #3799 is for getting that kind of information after the station has been built
20:32:33 <frosch123> then again you want a list of industries, not a list of cargos
20:32:57 *** MNIM was kicked by DorpsGek (frosch123)
20:33:09 <frosch123> anyone want to rant about autojoin? :p
20:33:39 <Alberth> yeah, MNIM please turn off auto-join :)
20:33:40 <MNIM> I got an epic deadlock that reaches across half of of my 1024*1024 map.
20:33:40 <frosch123> Alberth: i really see no use in a list of cargos which might be produces under unknown circumstances
20:33:52 <frosch123> even for humans there should be a better way
20:36:36 <Alberth> MNIM: nice! /me likes solving deadlocks
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20:45:38 <frosch123> Alberth: i added a comment to the fs task, but yexo and zuu might have a better idea :)
20:45:53 <Alberth> just pull one train into the depot, and it moves again :)
20:45:58 <frosch123> awh, i cannot even highlight zuu :(
20:46:11 <MNIM> and it's some very, very retarded signal placement
20:52:17 <Alberth> just remove the signal :)
20:54:00 <MNIM> That's what I did, and I added some rail
20:56:25 <Alberth> we need multi-tile depots :p
20:57:17 <andythenorth> 'need' is a strong word :P
20:57:31 <andythenorth> ctrl-click to join?
20:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> multi-tile depots and switchyards would make a lot of sense if you at the same time limit the number and length of trains that fit in
20:58:33 <andythenorth> even without that
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20:58:39 <supermop> also if you let consists change
20:58:41 <andythenorth> it makes routing easier
20:59:04 <andythenorth> fewer deadlocks when using 'service in depot orders'
20:59:17 <andythenorth> and if breakdowns are on, 'service in depot' orders are essential
20:59:26 <andythenorth> as PBS can't route vehicles to depots
20:59:42 <supermop> just build a station and rail yard outside the depot
21:00:13 <Alberth> I don't use 'service in depot' orders, I let them find one at their own time instead
21:00:17 <MNIM> It would be nice to retain the buffer function that depots currently have, though
21:00:38 <andythenorth> Alberth: you don't notice that they frequently fail to find a depot?
21:00:48 <andythenorth> especially RVs, which seem to be blind to depots
21:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't usually play with servicin
21:01:06 <andythenorth> I turn it off because it's broken
21:01:11 <MNIM> Alberth: I find it brings problems when depots are off the main line, or when you want trains to only go to the depot when they're empty
21:01:34 <Alberth> MNIM: don't do that, or don't want that :p
21:01:41 <andythenorth> who wrote all this complicated python stuff without also writing docs? :P
21:02:29 <Alberth> MNIM: Perhaps it has less impact with my netowrks, as I also play with breakdowns on, so my network has a lot of empty space
21:02:39 <Alberth> andythenorth: someone did, I think
21:03:05 <andythenorth> I am not responsible for anything I did more than 7 days ago, I am not that person :P
21:03:43 <MNIM> how so empty space with breakdowns on?
21:04:22 <Alberth> you need room for other trains to not block all the time
21:04:43 <Alberth> so you make extra tracks to split the traffic
21:04:56 <frosch123> MNIM: you know there is a go to nearest depot order?
21:05:26 <frosch123> you can give a train a option for multiple depots, by putting a waypoint somewhere, and the putting the depots behind it
21:05:35 <frosch123> send the train to the waypoint, then to nearest depot
21:10:36 <andythenorth> my FIRS class design is flawed. At least one of the classes behaves significantly differently depending on which parameters are passed
21:11:03 <andythenorth> and the parameters are not orthogonal; passing two that conflict will just result in broken behaviour
21:11:10 <MNIM> frosch123: I do know, but I haven't been able to find a good purpose for it so far
21:12:44 <frosch123> i use it to service many vehicles (which a single depot cannot handle) at a defined point on the routr
21:13:09 <frosch123> but maybe i missed the topic :p
21:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: care to elaborate?
21:16:59 <andythenorth> the templates tell the rest of the story, but you don't need to see all that :P
21:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so "type" should be a subclass, you mean?
21:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> class GroundSpriteset(Spriteset)
21:18:07 <andythenorth> more likely I should subclass for GroundSpriteset yes
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21:18:41 <andythenorth> then elsewhere check what class I have, instead of checking the value of type
21:19:10 <andythenorth> I don't have any bugs from the current code, it's just weird
21:19:22 <Alberth> the code *knows* what class it is in :)
21:20:18 <Alberth> MNIM: don't you get crazy from all those new vehicle announcements?
21:20:48 <andythenorth> as usual, I have code that works, but it will look funny to other people :P
21:28:23 <MNIM> new vehicle announcements?
21:28:46 <Alberth> the best indication is that you look at your code, and think "that can be done better"
21:28:49 <MNIM> oh, you mean the new available vehicles
21:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i get crazy from prototype offers for vehicle types that don't interest me
21:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> like a dozen trucks of cargos that i don't transport by truck
21:29:10 <MNIM> they can be annoying, but it's not every day
21:29:46 <Alberth> you can't even quietly watch the trains :)
21:29:58 <andythenorth> converting these classes will have to wait :P
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21:34:13 <MNIM> solved one deadlock, created another with all trains trying to go to an inaccessible depot
21:39:15 <Alberth> I added some tracks so trains could get out faster
21:39:45 <Alberth> and then it sorted itself out
21:40:21 <frosch123> upload it as scenario to bananas: resolve the jam :)
21:40:38 <Alberth> this one is too easy :)
21:41:27 * MNIM prefers 'natural' solutions which don't require (too much) extra rails
21:42:03 <frosch123> "natural solutions"? you mean crash all trains?
21:42:03 <MNIM> but yeah, I'll double-up that depot, the other depot(s) on this line already are doubled
21:42:33 <MNIM> frosch123: no, that's for when Im in a bad mood :P
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23:24:49 <MNIM> I just realized that one neglected line I'm still running steam engines... in 1998
23:25:28 <MNIM> those are some truly hardy old grampas!
23:25:55 <Pinkbeast> Welp, China's still running QJs...
23:26:06 <MNIM> elswhere on the map Ive got trains regularly passing 300kmh and here I am running a good old little steam line, frequently single-track, too
23:26:35 <MNIM> Pinkbeast: I know, but aren't those only for coal mine transports?
23:26:59 <MNIM> the coal transports were actually the first line to be electrified in this game XD
23:27:25 <Pinkbeast> Yes - the economics of steam are different if you have a lot of cheap labour and you're on top of an open-cast coalmine. :-)
23:29:39 <supermop> MNIM: think of it as a preserved historic line
23:30:44 <Pinkbeast> It's a great pity one can't actually do that
23:31:15 <MNIM> heh. I might actually just electrify the tracks and add some electric trains, but keep the steamers, because I can
23:31:36 <Pinkbeast> In UKRS1 I've certainly run one or two lines with 5ATs
23:31:55 <MNIM> nope. won't electrify that just yet
23:32:49 <MNIM> I'll just dieselize it and add another type of train to my growing list.
23:34:49 <MNIM> well, it's that or electrifying a pretty long track
23:35:17 <Pinkbeast> Doesn't the track conversion tool still drag out into a square?
23:35:38 <Pinkbeast> Electrify the world!
23:36:04 <MNIM> I can't be bothered... also, electrifying that will likely empty my bank account.
23:36:22 <MNIM> I'm playing with nutracks.
23:36:44 <Pinkbeast> Goodness me, what sort of game are you playing where money's an issue in 1998? Oh, but with nutracks you can't just blindly electrify the world, indeed.
23:38:42 <MNIM> I've got trains that earn me 6mil a year, but electrifying a meandering track of more than 400 squares as the bird flies still costs a bit. :P
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